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why is a bard not pulling wrong?

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why is a bard not pulling wrong?Follow

#52 Jan 10 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good

281 posts

Quote:

this is like saying "when you invite a PLD/WHM, don't expect them to provoke! they're obviously meant as backup healers!"

BRD/WHM is only useful in a party as a 2nd BRD, unless the BRD/WHM is competent enough to pull. your argument is absurd; you're criticizing people for not letting BRD/WHMs leech XP by doing a half-assed job. there's no difference between what you're defending and a melee who never WSs because "that's not my playstyle".

If you have no use for those players who tell you upfront that they are going to play in a certain style, then don't invite them.

Melee who don't WS do sobecause they are bad players. When I ask them to start using their WS they know they need to stop slacking- no debate.

#53 Jan 11 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default

phantasydragon

38 posts

here's a simple info you may want to know as brd
if your a rng you have to time the % of health so DD's and tank's can do an auto-target to the new mob. (same with thf)

If your a brd on the other hand you can go out at the mobs half health foe riquim them bring them back then sleep them and they should saty asleep also if you noticed Brd's cant be interupted.

so lets recap,
-brd goes out
-brd pulls mob
-brd bring's mob bk
-brd sleeps mob
-brd sits around buffs pt and debuffs current mob.
-pt chooses to switch mobs or auto-targets new mob.

simple^^

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#54 Jan 11 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good

petersghost

Scholar

21 posts

"if your a brd on the other hand you can go out at the mobs half health foe riquim them bring them back then sleep them and they should saty asleep also if you noticed Brd's cant be interupted."

lol hard to sleep them if you use requiem to pull =P

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#55 Jan 12 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent

Guru

1,826 posts

Last night a party actually asked me to come /whm and heal. Now, that's not really my play style on bard because I happen to be a whm and rdm and if I wanted to be a healer, I'd be on one of those, so I seek on /nin. That's what the party wanted though, so I came /whm and made the best of it.

I'm not a fan of pulling as /whm though and so I didn't volunteer for that aspect of my job, but The THF leader seemed to expect to be pulling anyway. I don't think that it's necessarily "wrong" to be a bard and not pull, but the attitude present in the OP is certainly wrong. This was one of those situations that I liken to Good, Fast, Cheap - pick two. Heal, Sing, Pull - pick two.

I find that the game is more fun when people in the party are getting along, and if you are the odd one out because you don't want to perform a task your job is suited to, then you are making the parry not fun. However, I don't think that parties should expect more from a bard just because she IS a bard - there's only so many tasks that you can perform at once without other tasks starting to slip, so choose wisely.

In the end - if the party needs you to pull, get out the /nin put on your big girl panties and deal with it. If they want you to heal it up, we can definitely effectively fill that slot too.

But lose the attitude, because that's the first thing people look at when they measure your level of skill. That kind of attitude will follow you everywhere.

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#56 Jan 13 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent

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438 posts

Quote:

Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.

They didn't always pull, and they weren't considered leeches, but you were lucky to even FIND a bard back then. (When sky parties were king, and Rng had yet to be nerfed.)

Now, yes, it is more efficient, and assuming you don't have half ass dd that don't kill fast enough -or- bother to voke anything, you should expect to pull in a merit.

The solution for our OP?

If you hate pulling, don't merit with DD on bard. Level a DD job, or go do Campaign (make sure you have a DD set), and tell parties that ask to piss off.

#57 Jan 13 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good

Sage

10,813 posts

Kelbar wrote:

Quote:

Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.

They didn't always pull, and they weren't considered leeches, but you were lucky to even FIND a bard back then. (When sky parties were king, and Rng had yet to be nerfed.)

people also let mobs live for 30-60 seconds longer than they needed to while they waited to organize a SC and WS, while partying on mobs drastically too high for their level. also, BRDs always pulled for me back in the day; i'm a MNK:P.

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#58 Jan 14 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent

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438 posts

Sounds like you need to level bard.

#59 Jan 17 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good

RusticusSageo

Sage

551 posts

Quote:

Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.

Doesn't RDM have higher enhancing magic than WHM?

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#60 Jan 17 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent

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10,813 posts

Kelbar wrote:

Sounds like you need to level bard.

me?

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retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.

#61 Jan 17 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good

Edited by bsphil

21,708 posts

milich wrote:

Kelbar wrote:

Sounds like you need to level bard.

me?

SECRET JOB!

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#62 Jan 18 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Doesn't RDM have higher enhancing magic than WHM?

Yes, but WHM has more Barspell enhancing gear. To match the +20 you get from WHM relic pants, you would need an extra 100 Enhancing skill.

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#63 FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 9:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What a troll. This was actually entertaining to read. I see nothing wrong with a good troll, as long as there are not any wanna-be smartarse replies involved. Then again, that I suppose, is inevitable.

#64 Jan 18 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good

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652 posts

Quote:

I for one would have liked to see the eradication of burns and the return of good old fashioned "Old-school FFXI parties." Then perhaps some people wouldn't become so cranky.

That would actually make a lot of people a lot more cranky, as that would nerf average exp gain. Nostalgia is all well and good, but the old ways aren't always the best ways.

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#65 Jan 18 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent

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10,813 posts

FinalPlay wrote:

What a troll. This was actually entertaining to read. I see nothing wrong with a good troll, as long as there are not any wanna-be smartarse replies involved. Then again, that I suppose, is inevitable.

I leveled BRD back in '04, ironically, after thoroughly and publicly badmouthing that job. It is one of the most beautiful, and was, one of the most fun jobs I had played. (And WILL have played.)

Back then, it 'seemed' absurd to have the BRD pull. And since it was commonplace to have a ranged job pull, such as THF or RNG, it was never expected of me, nor have I ever given it much thought.

As to one of the earlier replies telling the author to pull his thumb out of his arse, and the similiar replies right along with it, I say one thing. Pull your head out of your arse first, THEN proceed to be a wanna-be first class FFXI player.

No attitude is needed. He is probably one of the best end-game BRD's there can be, and probably one of the most well mannered ones. It 'seems' like he does not like pulling, so oh well, don't invite him.

There is nothing wrong with a BRD not pulling if that BRD is not in a party! I am also pretty sure he realized by now that he'll have to suck it up of he wants to merit. As for him being lazy, I am sure he is by not wanting to pull, but I'll beat him on that and then some.

I write in seacom that I will *NOT* pull, and upon an invite, I make sure that is understood before I even bother to accept. I have pulled before in merits, but I never liked it, don't like it now, and never will like it.

While, obviously, many people don't mind pulling, and strive to be best at it, some people simply don't.

I for one would have liked to see the eradication of burns and the return of good old fashioned "Old-school FFXI parties." Then perhaps some people wouldn't become so cranky.

especially in the context of this thread, this is by far one of the worst posts i've ever read. you didn't address a single argument, you made random false assertions, and you contributed nothing at all to the discussion that hasn't already been said (and refuted/explained away). you should be ashamed of yourself.

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retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.

#66 Jan 18 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent

SynthiaOfLeviathan

Scholar

568 posts

As COR, I usually tell the BRD I don't mind pulling because I know how annoying it can be to have to pull every single meripo. Plus, I don't mind doing it every once in awhile. COR pulling isn't bad since our damage contribution isn't huge anyway, and rolls don't have to be recast as often as songs do. Ideally the BRD would probably pull and the COR would contribute DD, but endless chains are certainly doable with COR pulling and BRD healing/sleeping/buffing. Plus, in an all SAM /SAM party a backup healer is actually useful on occasion.

Long story short, if you really don't want to pull on BRD you can probably make the COR do it. We are basically reliant on you to get merits (well, if we want to get good merits anyway).

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#67 FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 2:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is a bard not pulling wrong?

#68 Jan 18 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent

Sage

10,813 posts

FinalPlay wrote:

Why is a bard not pulling wrong?

It is not 'wrong.' There! ^.^

Ease up, you'll give yourself an anurism. Spell-check that please. Very true, I did not directly answer the topic, and I'll give you that. Excellent 'observation.'

Enough generalizations can be made as to what is implied. :D

And as far as being cranky, your probably right. I saw many people disconnect or go afk as a result of a quadruple bypass or stroke while they were yelling and crying at other sky parties for 'invading the turf.' Hehe.

that i look down on you for writing what you did does not entail that i'm emotionally worked up (or even involved). you made a stupid post, now you made another stupid post. we've already pointed out why it *is* wrong to refuse to pull if you want to XP/merit on BRD.

"wrong is too strong a word for it!!"

fine, it makes you a bad player then (all morality aside).

____________________________

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retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.

#69 Jan 19 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent

Asmoranomar

Sage

1,041 posts

FinalPlay wrote:

As to one of the earlier replies telling the author to pull his thumb out of his arse, and the similiar replies right along with it, I say one thing. Pull your head out of your arse first, THEN proceed to be a wanna-be first class FFXI player.

Yeah, that was me. That was my way of rewriting "Other people pay to play this game too, if you don't want to play like everyone else does - fine - but don't be surprised if no one wants to play with you."

This isn't something people make up, its truth. And apparently its coming from my arse. There's a reason my head's up there. Unfortnately, with that - I think you broke whatever analogy I was trying to make.

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#70 Jan 19 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good

Artemizthepld

Sage

121 posts

SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:

As COR, I usually tell the BRD I don't mind pulling because I know how annoying it can be to have to pull every single meripo. Plus, I don't mind doing it every once in awhile. COR pulling isn't bad since our damage contribution isn't huge anyway, and rolls don't have to be recast as often as songs do. Ideally the BRD would probably pull and the COR would contribute DD, but endless chains are certainly doable with COR pulling and BRD healing/sleeping/buffing. Plus, in an all SAM /SAM party a backup healer is actually useful on occasion.

Long story short, if you really don't want to pull on BRD you can probably make the COR do it. We are basically reliant on you to get merits (well, if we want to get good merits anyway).

I've no idea if you parse much but I parse almost all of my merit parties and as a result I wouldn't agree a cor's damage contribution can be discarded to give the bard a break from pulling. Cor will be less than all the other DD's but the lowest DD in the party won't be too far ahead of the Cor if he's good. I am referring mainly to pick up groups so if you're one of the people who only merits with your LS then our mileage may be different I guess.

cykokakashi wrote:

i just hit 75 brd last month. on brd i sub whm and as such i back up cure pretty effectively as a 75 brd. i also constantly keep songs up and do complex song mixes. i use finale like water w/o having to be told. why is me not pulling on brd an issue. i do all but 1 thing as a brd. last i checkd the people i party with dont send me money orders to pay for ff11. i make it clear i dont pull and people still give me grief over it

Bard pulls in merit parties because it's what they get invited for and it's what they're best at. All you can really do is put in your search comment that you will only merit if there is another bard in the party, then hope he doesn't leave before you do and is happy to do all the running about while you leech.

You seem to want it both ways, bards have a fast invite rate to parties because not enough people want to level the job (usually because of pulling) so they level a DD and accept slow invite rates, you seem to be happy to take the fast invite without doing the very thing you get that fast invite for. Bards generally have an easy time in this game due to the huge popularity of the job, you won't get chewed out for having sub par gear like a DD or tank would. You won't get chewed out for letting buffs drop like a healer would and you won't get chewed out for having a bad attitude most of the time, I've known quite a few who've had a terrible attitude "because they can". The most important thing you're expected to do is pull and if you're not prepared to do that then people will get annoyed and quite rightly so.

#71 FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 19 2010 at 8:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Those posts of mine were certainly not as 'stupid' as the posts that did nothing but say how 'stupid' they were, lol. Don't make it any better, now does it.

#72 Jan 19 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent

Artemizthepld

Sage

121 posts

FinalPlay wrote:

Ok, I admit. In a PROFESSIONAL sense, maybe it is. But we are 'playing.' Trust me, no matter how you justify it, you are just playing too. And being as hardcore as possible will not make you into something that you probably only wish to be.

Demeaning people because they give a sh*t is pathetic. I play football too, which is also a game but if I'm asked to be goal keeper and decide I'd rather run up the field to try and score a goal instead because, well, there are defenders who can look after goal and it's "my time" and "it's only a game" then I'd probably get kicked from the team and told to never come back again. This is a social game, as a result everyone playing it has some form of social responsibility. You are more than entitled to play this game how you like, you can sit and craft on a level 1 job all day if you want, nobody will care. You can solo to 75 in your own time and nobody will care. The minute you join a party with other people though the social responsibility kicks in and you'll be assigned a role which best suits the group. For Bard that is pulling, if you don't like it then don't join the group activities.

#73 Jan 19 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent

Asmoranomar

Sage

1,041 posts

I see the point your trying to make here, except that your missing the mark entirely.

Yes, it is certainly not a 'mandatory requirement' in the sense that your not bound by any sense of obligation. When it come to black and white issues, this is the ultimate answer, so yes...you are absolutely correct.

However, the same logic applies to every job. PLD and NIN are tanks. WHM are healers. RDM are debuffers. SMN and BST have pets. BLM are nukers. WAR, SAM, DRG, RNG, etc etc etc are DD's. Even THF aren't pullers - they are TH4 (ask any end-game THF what matters most about their job and most will tell you - all they need are gloves and knife) and hate control.

There is not a single job who's 'mandatory requirement' and sole bound purpose is to pull. There is no job who pulls faster or farther or receives bonuses for pulling or can debuff a mob by initiating a pull. Black and White answer.

The very foundation of the point your trying to make falls apart then. It means absolutely nothing in the real world sense of things.

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#74 Jan 19 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent

SynthiaOfLeviathan

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568 posts

Artemizthepld wrote:

I've no idea if you parse much but I parse almost all of my merit parties and as a result I wouldn't agree a cor's damage contribution can be discarded to give the bard a break from pulling. Cor will be less than all the other DD's but the lowest DD in the party won't be too far ahead of the Cor if he's good. I am referring mainly to pick up groups so if you're one of the people who only merits with your LS then our mileage may be different I guess.

Apparently you missed the part where I said ideally the COR would be DDing. However, COR pulling is an option, and it's not a terrible one. Particularly in cases where some backup healing by the BRD is useful (parties without /NIN jobs and in particular at MJSP), and when your DD's are strong.

Artemizthepld wrote:

Bard pulls in merit parties because it's what they get invited for

Bard gets invited to both XP and merit because their buffs give a huge bonus to DoT to all DD's in the party (far more than adding another DD would give). Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited. The fact is that most party leaders out there will invite a princess BRD that refuses to pull since the only other option is basically to disband the party.

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#75 Jan 20 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good

Artemizthepld

Sage

121 posts

SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:

Apparently you missed the part where I said ideally the COR would be DDing. However, COR pulling is an option, and it's not a terrible one. Particularly in cases where some backup healing by the BRD is useful (parties without /NIN jobs and in particular at MJSP), and when your DD's are strong.

No I assure you I did read your post, your point was that the DD aspect of cor isn't really important. I really don't agree and I'm not sure why you seem to have taken offense to it either.

SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:

Bard gets invited to both XP and merit because their buffs give a huge bonus to DoT to all DD's in the party (far more than adding another DD would give). Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited. The fact is that most party leaders out there will invite a princess BRD that refuses to pull since the only other option is basically to disband the party.

Bards are invited to parties (at least by me) to buff AND pull. Part of the appeal of inviting a bard is their mastery of pulling so yes, they are invited to pull.

#76 Jan 20 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent

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10,813 posts

FinalPlay wrote:

Those posts of mine were certainly not as 'stupid' as the posts that did nothing but say how 'stupid' they were, lol. Don't make it any better, now does it.

Last of your replies, perhaps including this one right here, were a complete waste of space. Was not my problem you felt it was necessary to add all that to what you thought, or anyone thinks, is 'stupid'. So you are not off the hook either with pointless posts. :P. And I don't think my post was pointless at all.

And it is *not* wrong to have a bard not pull. The players simply MAKE it wrong.

Ok, I admit. In a PROFESSIONAL sense, maybe it is. But we are 'playing.' Trust me, no matter how you justify it, you are just playing too. And being as hardcore as possible will not make you into something that you probably only wish to be.

**When a job opening becomes available that pays you by the chain in FFXI, let me know.**

And don't bother saying 'exp,' that difference in exp between a pulling BRD and a non-pulling BRD is minimal at best.

i put an ad out for, say, a tennis partner. say i love tennis. i get a reply. i eagerly call up my new friend one weekend and say "let's play tennis!" so we get our rackets and our ridiculous white shorts or spandex or whatever, and we head to the local tennis court. i serve to my opponent, and he throws the racket at the ball instead of swinging it!

"hey! that's not how you play tennis!" i yell.
"it's how i play. this isn't a job."

then i say "go @#%^ yourself," and leave. as i now say to you: go @#%^ yourself.

____________________________

pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.

#77 Jan 20 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent

7 posts

I am still a new bard, and may be seeing things through rose colored lenses, but I would encourage you to give pulling another try and possibly look at it from a different point of view.

From what I can tell, many other jobs' performance is very gear dependent. They wait at camp, build tp / weaponskill, pop some JA to make them do more damage, but at a certain point their knowledge of the class or the way they play the class doesn't increase their effectiveness in battle and they must look to gear upgrades.

Pulling has always excited me because there are many variables involved in me being a better puller, most of which have nothing to do with gear. Knowing your parties kill speed, knowing distance from the camp, being able to evade links, understanding how to weave your buffing and pulling duties, there are more but you get the idea. I like to think of it as the terrain becoming your gear, and the more you can manipulate and understand the terrain the better your gear is.

I like being in good parties (everyone does), and as a bard, especially a bard puller, you have the opportunity to make your parties amazing. A tank can be good and keep solid hate to keep things running smooth, a healer can be smart with his mp and hold out and rest less often and keep things moving, but in my (still limited) experience nothing can impact the speed and performance of a party quite like a fantastic puller. Why leave the pulling duty to someone who might not do as good a job as you?

Plus it's dangerous and the ladies love danger.

#78 FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 26 2010 at 11:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I did not mean to be demeaning at all.

#79 Jan 26 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent

Asmoranomar

Sage

1,041 posts

Thats kind of like a disclaimer. Everyone knows it is not "Wrong". But at the same time, that doesn't make you "Right" either.

If you end up playing in a 'wrong' way (for a lack of a better word) and people get upset, ruin your reputation, and/or suddenly you find yourself having to form statics just to get people to play with you...I really wouldn't consider that "Right".

Even the people who were being smartasses know this. There is no point in trying to school us on it, because the reaction is written in the OP - It's self explainatory. Not only that, but instead of trying to reason with people, the OP canned any chance at good advice and replied with your classic trolling remark: "I pay, I play how I want."

A lot of the 'smartasses' are tired of seeing people trying to seek advice or a good discussion only to have it trolled or thrown back in their faces. Had the OP been willing to listen and perhaps include more details (something like: "I like to nurse my newborn while playing FFXI and it's too hard to pull"), then the discussion would have been legitimate and worthy.

Instead, we have some spoiled brat who thinks BRD is overly complicated and that he's right and everyone else is wrong. Fine. He's not wrong, but he's clearly not right either. Which is ok, because I'll be taking his spot in a meripo tomorrow.

Edit: I also find it odd that you understand the 'social obligation' part (which is the actual topic), and your trying to re-enforce technicalities (which is not the actual topic) people don't care about. It's almost like your trying to make a point, but then fall short. Is there an actual point to what your trying to say other than "Well...~technically~ they aren't wrong..."?

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 3:31pm by Asmoranomar

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BRD/RDM - Song Cast Time Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup

#80 Feb 02 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Default

84 posts

Well, I will say this.

I am right for saying that BRD not pulling is *not* wrong.
But I am not saying that I am *right* when I refuse to pull.

I write in my seacom that I will not pull. Then I double check with the leader to make sure he/she understands that i will not pull. If I still get invited, then by all means, it is no longer my concern whether I am right or not. The leader knew what he was getting when he invited me (whether I am right or not).

As for the schooling, I don't think the OP meant to be a smartarse at all. :o

Edit: either way, majority wins. Just seemed 'harsh.'. I am just weird, I wanted to defend the OP.

Edit 2: to 'conclude' i suppose, your response sounded fair enough, and was well said. *bows

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 7:55pm by FinalPlay

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 7:58pm by FinalPlay

#81 Feb 04 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good

View User Forum

Jack of All Trades

28,688 posts

Quote:

I write in my seacom that I will not pull. Then I double check with the leader to make sure he/she understands that i will not pull. If I still get invited, then by all means, it is no longer my concern whether I am right or not. The leader knew what he was getting when he invited me (whether I am right or not)

Which is pretty much the equivalent of me seeking as WHM or RDM and putting in my seacom that I will not ever cast Haste, as far as I see things.

Yeah, leaders should read seacoms, but there is a point where you are just wasting their time and contributing to the flood of mediocrity in the LFP pool. Outright refusing to do one of your job's primary functions crosses that line.

Quote:

Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited.

Actually it often is. I have heard many, many people say to get a BRD specifically because "they didn't want to be puller". And they've actually said BRD specifically, not just any old generic job with a ranged attack.

#82 Feb 05 2010 at 4:01 AM Rating: Excellent

Sage

10,813 posts

Fynlar wrote:

Quote:

I write in my seacom that I will not pull. Then I double check with the leader to make sure he/she understands that i will not pull. If I still get invited, then by all means, it is no longer my concern whether I am right or not. The leader knew what he was getting when he invited me (whether I am right or not)

Which is pretty much the equivalent of me seeking as WHM or RDM and putting in my seacom that I will not ever cast Haste, as far as I see things.

Yeah, leaders should read seacoms, but there is a point where you are just wasting their time and contributing to the flood of mediocrity in the LFP pool. Outright refusing to do one of your job's primary functions crosses that line.

*ding ding ding* exactly. if you don't want to perform BRD's role in an XP party, you probably shouldn't be XPing on BRD. sure, you can put into your /seacom "i want to leech off your party". you ought to understand that this is what you are asking for. if you don't mind leeching, leech away.

Fynlar wrote:

Quote:

Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited.

Actually it often is. I have heard many, many people say to get a BRD specifically because "they didn't want to be puller". And they've actually said BRD specifically, not just any old generic job with a ranged attack.

at merit level, BRD's marches add more than getting a further DD, though its pulling is what makes it necessary (especially since BRD *sacrifices no performance whatsoever by pulling*). 4-5 of me + a RDM and another non-BRD support will chain faster than most DDs + a bard, and taking arrogance out of it, even mildly above average DDs can chain infinitely for 20k~ XP without a BRD (not mindblowing, but similar to untested pickup DDs + a BRD). BRD's marches (note, not buffs, just marches) are what take a great party and make it an amazing party, b/c of how haste works... but the pulling is why BRD is so preferred over a COR or even another melee.

however, fynlar is clearly referring to the road to 75 (since no one RA pulls @75). a BRD who won't pull on the road to 75 just ought to not be invited, b/c that's heavy leeching. i'm tired of writing this post, but i hope you know that songs are not potent enough before all the haste spells and gear to beat the speed-up you get from BRD pulling at those levels. BRD buffs are lesser than or equal to COR buffs (with COR roll alone doing more for the party than 2 BRD songs unless, maybe, you're infinite chaining something), and rare are the parties where BRD adds more by buffing the DDs than a great DD would add themselves.

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#83 Feb 05 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent

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Jack of All Trades

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Quote:

however, fynlar is clearly referring to the road to 75 (since no one RA pulls @75).

The BRD himself might, if your party is particularly fast >_>

I know Ezz was just telling me that she's done it before, but you need both a pretty awesome party and the entire Gcolibri area to yourselves, or else there isn't much point.

#84 Feb 05 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent

Edited by bsphil

21,708 posts

Fynlar wrote:

Quote:

however, fynlar is clearly referring to the road to 75 (since no one RA pulls @75).

The BRD himself might, if your party is particularly fast >_>

I know Ezz was just telling me that she's done it before, but you need both a pretty awesome party and the entire Gcolibri area to yourselves, or else there isn't much point.

I just picked up a mamoolbane for pulling on BRD actually. I use it alongside my regular elegy macro for whenever I need to get a mob to the camp REALLY quickly. Otherwise if I can spare a few extra seconds I'll use the normal macro. Good investment, I'm pretty happy with it.

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#85 Feb 06 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good

Sage

376 posts

Fynlar wrote:

Quote:

however, fynlar is clearly referring to the road to 75 (since no one RA pulls @75).

The BRD himself might, if your party is particularly fast >_>

I know Ezz was just telling me that she's done it before, but you need both a pretty awesome party and the entire Gcolibri area to yourselves, or else there isn't much point.

I <3 my Lamiabane! It's a great way to micromanage pulls. I use /ra to get something to fly to me quickly, and Elegy if I want it to hang out a bit before beating on me.

Agreed with Phil, too -- good investment. Has more than just one use, too, since it can be used in Salvage if brd gets ranged weapon slot but no magic.

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#86 Feb 07 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent

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I love my Lamiabane also, just typically not on BRD because Elegy tends to suit me just fine, and also doesn't draw magic aggro anyway.

The fact that it enables just about any job to be a potential puller (eventually) was worth eating the one inventory slot for it, in my book.

#87 Feb 07 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good

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In my experience playing 5years plus, and Bard being my primary job, for one I should add this, when you started playing bard the parties should have started making you pull so by the time you got to 75 it would be no quams. Secondly even if you pulled and slept a second pet for a skill chain you can still have songs on mages and on the damage dealing group and even through in special songs with your macros. I have seen a many Bards lacking in equipment especially INSTRUMENTS, they made them all for a reason. Many only have 1 or 2 instruments, I had them all and even a stage 3 relic horn. So if you dont like to pull and do all the other work then Bard may not be the job for you.

Rockmann "For God and Country"

#88 Feb 07 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent

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In my experience playing 5years plus, and Bard being my primary job, for one I should add this, when you started playing bard the parties should have started making you pull so by the time you got to 75 it would be no quams. Secondly even if you pulled and slept a second pet for a skill chain you can still have songs on mages and on the damage dealing group and even through in special songs with your macros. I have seen a many Bards lacking in equipment especially INSTRUMENTS, they made them all for a reason. Many only have 1 or 2 instruments, I had them all and even a stage 3 relic horn. So if you dont like to pull and do all the other work then Bard may not be the job for you.

Rockmann "For God and Country"

#89 Mar 04 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent

TrotterOfSylph

Sage

502 posts

Bard not pulling is bad, because people are selfish. What you want to do is not important to them. They want what will get them to their goals as fast as possible and bard pulling is one of those things. Your personal enjoyment is the last thing on their list of "things to care about". This is not just in FFXI, it is true in the world around you.

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#90 Mar 04 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good

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83 posts

I suppose you can say that's true.

But you'd also have to say wanting a PLD to use a sword and shield instead of a great sword, for a WAR to not sub MNK and try to tank, for a RNG to use something other than a boomerang, or for a RDM to heal, is also selfish.

Surely it shouldn't matter to YOU if the RDM doesn't want to heal, right? There's a difference between being selfish and not wanting to give people a free ride. Even SE has recognized BRD's abilities as a puller and plans to give BRD new pulling related abilities.

Edited, Mar 4th 2010 8:20pm by Scritchie

#91 TrotterOfSylph, Posted: Mar 05 2010 at 6:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The difference is semantics. I have stuff to do and I don't want someone screwing that up. You can call it not wanting them to get a free ride or selfish, in the end the outcome is the same.

#92 Mar 08 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good

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Fynlar wrote:

I love my Lamiabane also, just typically not on BRD because Elegy tends to suit me just fine, and also doesn't draw magic aggro anyway.

Those all jobs throwing weapons made my pulling life on BRD a lot easier. It can be a constant chain saver at a certain killing pace. At which point, elegy just won't cut it (especially on birds).

I used to use a reverse spell acc set (no chr, opposite ele staff etc) to intentionally get a resist and get the bird back to the meat grinders asap. But Mamoolbane for pulling birds is probably the best thing to happen to my BRD in a long time.

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#93 Mar 11 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent

IfritnoItazura

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TrotterOfSylph wrote:

Bard not pulling is bad, because people are selfish.

I'm more incline to go with a Bard who doesn't want to pull is the selfish person, putting his own likes and dislikes above the need of the group.

Scritchie wrote:

Even SE has recognized BRD's abilities as a puller and plans to give BRD new pulling related abilities.

Where did you see this? Can you provide a link?

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#94 Mar 11 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good

Asmoranomar

Sage

1,041 posts

IfritnoItazura wrote:

Where did you see this? Can you provide a link?

Was during the recent Vana'fest - Basically SE wants to make us a bit less vulnerable and squishy during pulls.

do I hear irony? ...

Asmoranomar wrote:

There is not a single job who's 'mandatory requirement' and sole bound purpose is to pull. There is no job who pulls faster or farther or receives bonuses for pulling or can debuff a mob by initiating a pull.

This was something I said earlier to support BRD's role in pulling - the point being that no job has a specific pulling role, and due to the free time BRD is the ideal puller. Funny thing is, if SE implements some sort of pulling capability then BRD *will* be the ideal puller for even more things than meripo birds.

Imagine BRD pulling farming mobs, NMs, Dynamis/Einherjar mobs, etc. (that's easy - I already do -.-) during events. It could change expectations across the board.

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#95 Mar 12 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Excellent

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10,813 posts

TrotterOfSylph wrote:

Bard not pulling is bad, because people are selfish. What you want to do is not important to them. They want what will get them to their goals as fast as possible and bard pulling is one of those things. Your personal enjoyment is the last thing on their list of "things to care about". This is not just in FFXI, it is true in the world around you.

if you choose to play a certain job in a party, your personal enjoyment ought to come from that job's role. it is NOT selfish in the slightest for someone to expect you to play BRD in a certain way. this isn't someone telling you to stop listening to the cure and crying, this is someone PLAYING A GAME WITH YOU and expecting you to KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 1:35am by milich

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retired monk

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#96 Mar 12 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Default

43 posts

even if he was brd/whm you shouldnt have to ask him to change subjobs to /nin.... he should be able to look at the party setup and come to his own conclusion that if he was the only bard then the party is going to need him to pull and he should automatically sub /nin.

Also do you have a search comment stating that you refuse to pull?
If so then the party ldr. was stupid to invite you in the 1st place... you are very lazy I would never invite a brd who refuses to pull even if i had another brd who wanted to pull.

Bard is the most efficient puller hands down.. why wouldnt you want to pull and improve party efficiency and xp per hr.?

Now if you were a corsair refusing to pull I might support your objections. But thats a matter for a diff. forum :P

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#97 Mar 12 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default

ZiGG

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I've actually had a lot of trouble pulling with elegy on brd20/whm,

at first I was trying it with a wind instrument and then running as soon as the spell was off at max range,
the problem here is that I'd end up with a 4s spell lock after completing the elegy and I'd get a hit to the face before I could even move.

So then I thought I'd try switching to string and pull using the same basic idea, the spell lock is so long on my PC that I still get a hit to the face before I reach camp.

The confusing thing is I don't have this problem pulling with white magic but I'd rather not waste the mp, nor do I want to start DoTing a mob that I'm probably going to want to sleep at my camp. I suppose I could try macroing in a gear swap to proc just after the elegy finishes casting but any help advice would be appreciated. :P

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#98 Mar 12 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent

43 posts

hmmm.. i wish i could help but i dont get spell locked with elegy. I do have equip changes macroed into my elegy macro idk if that makes the diff or would help you. Requiem on the other hand does cause a similiar spell-lock not that i would pull with that anyway..

I'd have to look at my macro to see what im swapping in for elegy off-hand im i know im using the elegy specific horn, osode, terra's staff, wind torque, thats prob all of them

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#99 Mar 12 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good

Sage

10,813 posts

ZiGG wrote:

I've actually had a lot of trouble pulling with elegy on brd20/whm,

at first I was trying it with a wind instrument and then running as soon as the spell was off at max range,
the problem here is that I'd end up with a 4s spell lock after completing the elegy and I'd get a hit to the face before I could even move.

So then I thought I'd try switching to string and pull using the same basic idea, the spell lock is so long on my PC that I still get a hit to the face before I reach camp.

The confusing thing is I don't have this problem pulling with white magic but I'd rather not waste the mp, nor do I want to start DoTing a mob that I'm probably going to want to sleep at my camp. I suppose I could try macroing in a gear swap to proc just after the elegy finishes casting but any help advice would be appreciated. :P

advice: dia pulling is great if you're not sleeping the mob, especially if other mages aren't casting dia. DEF down is HUGE, especially at lower levels.

put some gear swaps that will make you blink in your elegy macro. if you time it right (just experiment with wait and such) it will completely remove the spell lock.

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retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.

#100 Mar 12 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent

IfritnoItazura

Scholar

341 posts

Edit: Nevermind. Saw it in another thread; reference to BRD's survivability on pulls came from Elmer. lol.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 3:23pm by IfritnoItazura

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#101 Mar 12 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent

Cairstiona the Furtive

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Quote:

put some gear swaps that will make you blink in your elegy macro. if you time it right (just experiment with wait and such) it will completely remove the spell lock.

that^ and make sure you aren't locked on to the mob. I also tend to spin my camera while I sing so I am already facing the direction I need to run when the song ends instead of the extra moment to turn with it already chasing me.

As to why a bard not pulling is wrong, I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I get bored as hell singing 4 songs over and over: pulling can be a fun challenge. I race with myself, race my melees, and Altana help a party trying to take our camp, because I get super pumped racing them too. (I do pull /whm too if required, but people hardly ever ask for that because they all want birds it seems.)

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why is a bard not pulling wrong?