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why is a bard not pulling wrong?Follow

#1 Jun 17 2009 at 8:58 PM Rating: Default
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i just hit 75 brd last month. on brd i sub whm and as such i back up cure pretty effectively as a 75 brd. i also constantly keep songs up and do complex song mixes. i use finale like water w/o having to be told. why is me not pulling on brd an issue. i do all but 1 thing as a brd. last i checkd the people i party with dont send me money orders to pay for ff11. i make it clear i dont pull and people still give me grief over it.
#2 Jun 17 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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In my experience, a BRD who isn't pulling is usually slacking and NOT doing:

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i back up cure pretty effectively as a 75 brd. i also constantly keep songs up and do complex song mixes. i use finale like water w/o having to be told.


but your average DD is also off picking their nose and AFK-auto attacking with 300% TP anyways. If you don't like pulling, don't pull. But just know most BRDs do tend to pull in merit PTs.
#3 Jun 17 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Backup healers aren't needed in most good parties, that's why. If you're a 2nd bard in a party, well backup healing is ok because there's not much else for you to do. But if you're the only bard you should be pulling.
#4 Jun 17 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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You're level 75, get over yourself and learn to pull.

Reasons a BRD pulls at 75 (and even before)

1) We can "cause damage" via party buffs and enemy debuffs without even being there.

2) At 75, most DDs are subbing NIN and oftentimes just a single mage can keep the party healthy.

3) The DDs can NOT pull and do damage at the same time. A Bard can time their songs so that they are always up, AND pull. This leads to much faster kill times and MUCH better total exp.

If you don't want to pull, get another BRD in your party to pull so you can /WHM and back-up heal. But in all honesty, you should learn to pull.
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#5 Jun 17 2009 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Because bard is simply the best puller in the game, don't you want to do what your job is best at it?

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#6 Jun 18 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Unless you're pulling or solo healing (not backup healing), you're basically just leeching. With 2 brds, and another mage, you'd be better off dding than backup healing.
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#7 Jun 18 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Because if you make a Melee go and pull then they have to spend time pulling and not meleeing = less damage done = slower kills.

No one can force you to pull, but you'll never get good exp/hr in merits if you don't (unless another brd in your PT is pulling).
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#8 Jun 18 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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cykokakashi wrote:
i just hit 75 brd last month. on brd i sub whm and as such i back up cure pretty effectively as a 75 brd. i also constantly keep songs up and do complex song mixes. i use finale like water w/o having to be told. why is me not pulling on brd an issue. i do all but 1 thing as a brd. last i checkd the people i party with dont send me money orders to pay for ff11. i make it clear i dont pull and people still give me grief over it.


the problem people have is that you're trying to leech XP and make parties worse, but won't admit it to yourself. who do you expect to be pulling anyway? either the person with elegy, spare time, and easy damage mitigation does it, or someone else who should be DDing is doing it.

your only hope is to find a less lazy BRD and static up with them. they might let you leech.

Edited, Jun 18th 2009 3:24pm by milich
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#9 Jun 18 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Cyth wrote:
3) The DDs can NOT pull and do damage at the same time. A Bard can time their songs so that they are always up, AND pull. This leads to much faster kill times and MUCH better total exp.


That's not completely true. You being a 75 RNG should know that. DDs can pull and cause damage at the same time (i.e. ranged attack then jump into melee).

OT: However, BRD does excel at pulling and then sleeping mobs which makes for the higher chains in a merit party. Although if you're doing birds in Meripo I'd recommend picking up a Lamiabane. It'll save you some time and bird linkage.

And, as others have stated before, you're a 75 BRD you will be expected to pull from now on.

Sorry, it's just the way it is.
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#10 Jun 18 2009 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
That's not completely true. You being a 75 RNG should know that. DDs can pull and cause damage at the same time (i.e. ranged attack then jump into melee).
You not being a 75 RNG shows. Having a RNG pull is actually a very stupid idea post 55. Sidewinder is going to drop a lot of health, especially on Birds. If it doesn't outright kill a mob, it IS going to pull hate to the RNG, one of the WORST jobs to have hate. Unlike melee who can keep DDing and counting Shadows, a RNG can NOT cast Utsusemi while firing.

Monster attacking RNG = RNG not pulling.
RNG WSing and killing mob = another monster not pulled and waiting.

Ranged attacks does NOT automatically make a good puller.
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#11 Jun 18 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Because Bard has the best pulling tools at its disposal of any job in the game.

Another job could pull, but if you both put the same effort into it, he would not be able to pull anywhere near as fast or effectively as you. AND they would have to sacrifice damage to do it.
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#12 Jun 19 2009 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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Rng pulling is ******* stupid at 75.
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#13 Jun 19 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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cykokakashi wrote:
last i checkd the people i party with dont send me money orders to pay for ff11. i make it clear i dont pull and people still give me grief over it.


Last I checked, people can (practically) say whatever they want. -- You are welcome to play with your thumb up your *** and spend $15 USD a month doing so - that doesn't mean I can't tell you how disgusting it is. Not to mention, not too many people are going to want to shake your hand after your name starts becoming well known.

So...I think you need to get your thumb out of your ***.



cykokakashi wrote:
...do complex song mixes...


Singing songs is not complex. You push a button and people magically hit harder or faster. Its the reason why every major end game linkshell has a naked BRD being dualboxed. If you think singing songs is complex, you need to play another game.

cykokakashi wrote:
i do all but 1 thing as a brd.


Then your a horrible BRD. A good BRD can pull, debuff, buff, heal, pay taxes, melee, tank, and kite all at the same time. Usually though, pulling and paying taxes are the big ones tho - Your not a real BRD unless you can do those.

cykokakashi wrote:
why is me not pulling on brd an issue.


In all seriousness and jokes aside - Its because in an exp party, having a steady flow of monsters is the most important thing. It is more important to have the next mob ready than it is to heal, or debuff, finale, or buff.

If you merit long enough, you will find that some parties eat though mobs (birds) so fast, it will be difficult to keep buffs up and pull. If you have to choose between the two, pulling should always be the first option. Trust me when I say, melee will complain less about having buffs than they will about not having a mob to hit.

Don't feel bad about the order of things in exp parties. Everything is played different in merits than in end-game - This goes for every job. Don't think your the only one making sacrifices - Most melee don't want to /NIN and most RDM don't want to /WHM - but they do. It's actually more insulting to them when they take the extra mile to setup for a good merit party only to have it ruined by a BRD who doesn't want to pull. So don't feel all **** hurt over it, as they are probably more upset than you are about it.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 10:44am by Asmoranomar
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#14 Jun 19 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Man you guys are pretty hardcore on the bard forum lol! But i guess thats to be expected on a job specific forum. Hope u dont mind a non-75 brd posting, mine is only 60 and prob staying there for a long time.

Well I am not gonna say you should pull. I dont think that a bard that is just singing is leeching XP. Well he is doing his job which is making a party better. I was in a party with tank, 3 DDs, whm, and rdm as a MNK and i never got haste. That is leeching...i dont know what that rdm thought they were suppose to do but just refreshing the whm and pld and backup healing was not all of it...im rambling.

With that being said i believe that a bard pulling makes the party faster and xp rolls in quicker. The bard can stop in the middle of the mob being killed and go pull then sleep it and maybe another one so moving from mob to mob is fluid.

If my bard doesnt pull i am not gonna complain but i would rather it and the party as well.

*lol this kinda reminds me of when rdm would only SOMETIMES have to main heal and rdms didnt want to do it...long time ago.*
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#15 Jun 19 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you merit long enough, you will find that some parties eat though mobs (birds) so fast, it will be difficult to keep buffs up and pull. If you have to choose between the two, pulling should always be the first option. Trust me when I say, melee will complain less about having buffs than they will about not having a mob to hit.


Unless you're the WHM or RDM, in which case they will definitely badger you for Haste the second it drops, before they dare to risk ******* off the "almighty" BRD by saying he's pulling too slowly.

Course, the fact that a lack of pulls might not necessarily be the BRD's fault probably has something to do with it as well.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 4:48pm by Fynlar
#16 Jun 19 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I've found having a good puller to be one of the most important aspects of having a successful merit party. If the mobs aren't coming in fast enough you're not going to keep your chain going.

So let's take a look at the available party members

DDs - Need to be dealing damage, they can't reasonably do this and pull fast enough to keep a chain going.

Healer - Needs to be either casting, or resting MP. Definitely does not have time to pull

Support - Casts buffs every so often, depending on job may contribute a bit extra damage. Has plenty of time between casting buffs to pull.

Do you see the problem here? Pulling for a merit party is a full time job. The only slots that have the time to do this are support. Of the support jobs, bard easily has the best tools for pulling.

In a merit party efficient pulling is as important a job as buffing, healing, or DDing, this means that the battle music should rarely if ever end if done properly. No way a DD or healer can do this and still do their job. 'Back-up healing' adds next to nothing to the group, b/c if they DDs and Healer are doing their jobs right, you shouldn't need any back up healing.

You say you're just refusing to do 'just one thing', but that one thing is one of the primary functions of your job in a merit party. What you're saying is sort of like a DRK saying that they aren't going to engage any mobs b/c they want to focus on their spellcasting.

If you don't want to pull on BRD, don't merit with it.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 3:49pm by cynicalsaint
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#17 Jun 19 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Personally I've found having a good puller to be one of the most important aspects of having a successful merit party.


I'd say that goes for ANY xp party, actually XD

Well, except for roaming pts

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 5:04pm by Fynlar
#18 Jun 19 2009 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
I'd say that goes for ANY xp party, actually XD

Granted. But its doubly true in merit parties where a pull only needs to be delayed a for a matter seconds for it to cost you the chain.
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#19 Dec 26 2009 at 2:45 AM Rating: Default
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hey bard people whats your thoughts on thfs pulling at 75? just wondering..
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#20 Dec 26 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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reikazen wrote:
hey bard people whats your thoughts on thfs pulling at 75? just wondering..


after reading the thread and its numerous posts addressing exactly such a question, what do you think?
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#21 Dec 26 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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He point by point of why bards are the best pullers was pretty much right on.

However, I am in the group that firmly beleives in having a second healer/boffer and three top notch DDs. Over 4 DDs 1 buffer and one healler. It is easier on pretty much everyone involved.

The person pulling only has to maintain two songs instead of four. The healer only has to haste three people, and there are two MP pools recovering for a lot molre healing power. The additional healing lets Two Handed DD use hasso, which in conjunction with haste, marches, and good gear means they are doing more damage than 4 DDs would with one healer (actually, just having four strong buffs instead of two will probably do that).
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#22 Dec 26 2009 at 10:59 PM Rating: Default
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You dont sound like a very good BRD.

No one pays your ffxi bill...but you should try a different class.

BRD/NIN for puller in merit pts. BRD/WHM for everything else :)
#23 Dec 26 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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You dont sound like a very good BRD.

No one pays your ffxi bill...but you should try a different class.

BRD/NIN for puller in merit pts. BRD/WHM for everything else :)


Except for the occasional HNM(well any mob that needs eleseal) that requires /blm.
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#24 Dec 29 2009 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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Had brd/nin in lvl71 level sync party @ imp camp yesterday. Asked him several times if he could pull (using Japanese, plain English and auto-translate). No response. All of a sudden he disbands. I ask him why and his response: <German> <I don't speak English>. WTF... Because you're German you cannot read auto-translate messages? Or even simple English?

If you don't wanna pull on brd, don't sub ninja and tell me upfront so I can just invite another member that contributes to the party as he/she should.







After asking German friend to check with the bard using German it turns out the brd wasn't German at all...
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#25 Dec 30 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Bard pulling is by far the easiest role in merit parties to boot.

You don't need to pay attention to people needing cures or watching for abilities. You're singing 2-4 songs that have static times, which again means you're really not watching anything. All you do is keep mobs at camp, which if you always have a mob waiting you just need to wait til the last one dies to pull another, so you don't even need to account for kill speed or worrying your pulls cost the chain.

It's significantly less fun when you're competing for pulls, but in general you just elegy => buff repeat for a couple hours and you're all set to watch hulu! Try doing that on a DD or mage and people can start hitting the floor.

Being backup bard is so dull, it requires just enough attention that you can't completely zone out, but are forced to do the same things over and over and over again. I'ld rather just /nin and pretend to be a singing DD if I wasn't pulling.
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#26 Dec 30 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Default
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Come on people, obvious troll is obvious.
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