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Tier to break on Wind Skill? (HNM)Follow

#1 Jan 27 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
Hey, just a short question.

Whats a good Tier to break on Wind instrumental skill and on CHR?

I heard CHR Tier was around 100, 110 maybe.

But couldn't find any posts or wiki info on what Tier to break on Wind instrumental skill is good for HNMs?



#2 Jan 27 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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1,041 posts
Your question is a bit vauge, do you mean for debuffs or buffs?

Tier is usually reserved for buffs, in which case most buffs are easily capped at 75 with no skill enhancements. I believe Minuet IV requires a total of 462 combined wind/sing skill to cap. After that, Victory March increase in intervals of 1/1024 (ie: +0.097% haste) over the course of several skill levels. There is no known cap to march, other than the fact that we are limited by how much skill we can actually equip (meaning, if SE adds more skill it may or may not keep going up). I believe the last March tier requires every bit of skill gear obtainable in game for each slot.

If your talking about tiers for debuffs, there is only 1 song that actually has tiers and it is already pre-capped at 75 - Requiem. All other debuff songs do not scale at all in relation to skill. If you want a debuff song to become more potent, use the appropriate instruments.

Or are you instead talking about Magical Accuracy (Hitrate)?

Since you specified HNM I will cover that portion of it, keep in mind this doesn't mean it applies to all mobs (below is overkill for 'normal' mobs).

Most common HNM's (Sky, Sea, Kings, etc) seem to have their base statistics centered around 120 (ToAU+WotG seems higher). This applies to STR, INT, MND, and CHR at the very least, and possibly to all stats. This also somewhat explains the magical '120' stat that is seen across various jobs when talking about anything from defensive physical builds to offensive magical accuracy. While the 120 stat was always considered a rule of thumb, not much testing has been done to prove anything until recently (see link). With that said, there is a relationship between stats, skill and magic accuracy gear that is somewhat dependant upon certain conditions.

If you read the article and the information behind it, you'll realize that your ideal set is going to consist of approximately 120 CHR for HNM fights. You can push yourself a bit over that (no more than 130 CHR maybe), but keep in mind that we can always eat food or sing CHR songs to further buff ourselves if needed. After that, the benefits of adding more CHR diminishes while Skill and Magical Accuracy gear remains consistant. So far, there does not seem to be anything pointing to a diminishing point for Skill and Magical Accuracy gear - Meaning, you can add as much as you want.

Keep in mind that the articles don't tell you anything about your overall magical hitrate, nor do they tell you how to calculate it. There is also a level difference function that will be the *Main* obstacle to overcome regarding magic hitrate. It only tells you how much you can expect your magical hitrate to increase by on a particular mob (ie: 1 skill increases by 1%). This goes without saying, if your landing rate is low to begin with, the gains you will recieve will also be low, and vice versa. Stacking on more will have a cumulative effect over your previous gains (think of it as intrest) and, with enough CHR, Skill, and Magic Accuracy gear, you may be able to (slowly) overcome resist rates.

With that said, there is no limitation the amount of skill you can add for debuffs.
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Asmoranomar - Diabolos
BRD/RDM - Song Cast Time Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup
#3 Jan 28 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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1,996 posts
I've been trying to wrap my head around the new information and make some changes in gear. Based on Kaeko's observations it would seem like:

Up until 130 CHR (assuming HNM have 120 base CHR)
AF2+1 head>af2 head=marduk head
Piper Torque>wind torque
Musical>wind/singing earring>everything else
Marduk body>Mahatma body>errant body=osode=shadow coat
af1+1 hands>all
Omega ring>heavens rings>balrahns>nereid
Jesters cape>astute
Gleemans belt>all
Marduk pants>af+1
shadow feet>golliard>oracles>shair feet


Of course using the 'highest' rated piece listed above would give +69 CHR. To really optimize you can add 13 more CHR for G-horn/merits/tacos for a total of +82 CHR. As a taru I 'think' my base CHR is 70, which would mean a total of 152 CHR. That would mean 22 points of CHR would give me .5 macc instead of 1 macc (or .9 macc depending on what you believe). So some tweaks would be in order.

Over 130 CHR it should look like this:
marduk head>af2+1
piper torque>wind
Musical>wind/singing>everything else
Shadow coat>marduk body>mahatma>errant/osode
af1+1 hands>all
omega ring>balrahns ring>nereid>heavens
Jesters cape +1=astute
Marduk pants>af+1
Oracles feet>shadow>golliard>shair


Using the 'highest' rated piece in this setup would give +38 CHR (assuming jesters). Added to 70 base and 13 from merits/horn/tacos, this would give 121 CHR, so I would need to add 9 more CHR from the first group in order to optimize.

Heaven's ring + Shadow feet would give 10 CHR (9.5 macc) at the cost of 5 skill and 4 macc (for a whopping .5 macc increase)

Marduk body would give 12 CHR (10.5 macc) at the cost of 10 macc (again a .5 macc increase)

af2+1 head would give 6 CHR and 5 skill (11 macc) at the expense of the 10 macc of marduk

heaven's ring alone would give 1 more macc than balrahns but at the expense of 99999 more macros since balrahns would be better in assault/salvage.



Using the second set of equipment it seems like any upgrade would be so minimal that it comes down to looks/which events you do/etc. Of course this does assume a relic horn/merits/eating food/being taru/etc. It is certainly nice to know, however, that based on new information the einherjar abjurations and astute cape appear to be totally optional for debuffing purposes. Since those are the biggest headaches to acquire, many bards can just opt for limbus and salvage and be within .5-1.5 macc of the 'optimal' setup.
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#4 Jan 28 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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951 posts
tl;dr

Get 120-130 CHR, then stack skill.
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is why when i cannot buy potion i am eat a vile elixir for 13 HELTH POINT !!?!
#5 Jan 28 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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1,996 posts
That is apparantly for HNM though. For merit type mobs it would more accurately be "Get 90 CHR then stack skill". Or more likely: "Get 90 CHR then stack -recast/haste/fastcast". The amount of CHR a bard has is inconsequential. What matters is the difference between the brd's CHR and the target's CHR.

In theory.
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