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#1 Dec 20 2008 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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I apologize for creating a new topic, but I don't see one on the front page and I'd like to get some advice on my gear. I have a couple slots that very obviously need help, but I'm not sure which direction to go.

Main: Earth/Light Staff
Sub: Bugard Grip +1
Ranged: (Instrument)
Head: Bard's Roundlet
Neck: Star Necklace
Earrings: Melody Earringx2
Body: Goliard Saio
Hands: Choral Cuffs
Rings: Nereid Ringx2
Back: Jester's Cape
Waist: Gleeman's Cape
Legs: Choral Cannions+1
Feet: Goliard Clogs

Obviously, HQ the cape, that is my immediate farming goal. HQing the earrings is going to take me longer, and Singing/Wind Earrings and Wind Torque are completely out of my price range at the moment. I guess my biggest question is Goliard Saio VS Errant Houp, and to a lesser extent Relic VS AF+1 pants. Also, is Goliard Chapeau worth it ever if I have W Turban and Bard's Roundlet?

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BRD 75 BLU 90 DNC 90 WHM 90 THF 75 WAR 40 NIN 90 SCH 45

#2 Dec 20 2008 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
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I'm not certain, but I believe that Wind Torque is the way to go for neck piece. And for grips I would recommend at least Earth and Light. And get a Jester's +1, 3 extra CHR and it's 60k on your server, certainly not an unobtainable amount of money.
#3 Dec 20 2008 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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BRD75/NINorWHM37

Light/Earth/Chanter's Staff
Bugard Strap
All +1 Instruments, except I use Mary's Horn for Lullaby
Bard's Roundlet
Wind Torque
Melody Earrings +1 x2
Yigit Gomlek (Minstrel's Coat when I'm not pressed for time)
Choral Cuffs
Nereid Ring
Minstrel's Ring (Second Nereid Ring when I'm not pressed for time)
Jester's Cape
Gleeman's Belt
Choral Cannions (Sha'ir Serawheels for debuffing)
Sha'ir Crackows (I need Oracle's D:)

So what's the verdict?
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#4 Dec 20 2008 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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OP: if your staves are nq HQ those before any other stuff, then get wind torque. jester's +1 is kind of obvious also. don't debuff in saio except maybe finale. chapeau for stoneskin. the rest is a matter of balancing skill with chr which depends on what gear you have; personally since you're not lacking chr in other areas i'd say af+1 are > relic for you when using wind instruments, and obviously you should be buffing in af anyway... why did you get af+1 legs before hands?

Other guy: hq staves and goliard clogs.
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http://refreshwhore.livejournal.com
Discordia, 80 human gimpmage + Vrtra, nub drood - Shattered Halls EU
iRage (。◕‿‿◕。)
#5 Dec 20 2008 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Other guy: hq staves and goliard clogs.


Oracle's wouldn't be a better goal?
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[quote=********* why when i cannot buy potion i am eat a vile elixir for 13 HELTH POINT !!?![/quote]
#6 Dec 21 2008 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Consider other types of gear for different purposes. One set of gear, no matter how good it is, can not be used for everything. By using this method, not only does it make you a better player, but we can begin to see, test, and measure the value of your gear.

For example - The gear you have listed. You want to know what is better, be we have no solid idea what it is your gear is supposed to do. Is it for Stronger Buffs? Larger Buff area? More Accurate Debuffs? Potent Debuffs? Casting faster? Heal better? MP recovery? Stronger Stoneskin? Reduce Utsusemi timers? Melee Build? Mordant Rime Damage?

While we all know you probably mean 'average' bard build, it rasies the question of what that actually means to other people. Some might look at your gear and think "Your buffs are going to suck - wear skill." Others are going to tell you "Your never going to land debuffs." Some might say "Get some MP gear so you can cure more." No two BRD's play the same way, so every answer is correct. Your question to seek better gear options is limited by the fact that, we don't know how you play and what can benefit you.

Going back to specific gear sets, it also helps YOU to identify what to look for. An "Average" head piece for BRD could be anything - W.Turban, B.Roundlet, D.Helm, O.Crown, M.Tiara, ....anything! By narrowing things down, such as "A headpiece that can reduce my recast timers", you can clearly see that W.Turban would be the *best* choice. Likewise, you can easly see what you *shouldn't* wear sometimes. For example - "Do I really need HQ Staves when Buffing party members? What about CHR?" -- NO!

Here are some tips for some common gear setups:
DEBUFFING
1) Only +song instruments increase potency. The rest of your gear should be focused on increasing the accuracy of your spell.
2) HQ staves are worth more than the rest of your equipment combined. If you don't have them, sell off your equipment and buy them. You will benefit more from a HQ staff than you will from CHR and Skill.
3) Try to get around 110-120 CHR first, then work on Skill or Magic Accuracy.

BUFFING
1) +Song and Skill increase potency. Sing = String = Wind in terms of song potency from buffs.
2) When using a stringed instrument, String skill is the only stat that determines the range of a song. *IF* you choose to use string, I recommend focusing on its range rather than its potency. Most notable situation where this is useful is for doubling the range of ballads for a mage party.
3) CHR and Magic Accuracy is worthless during buffs.
4) Try to get around 462 Skill to cap Minuets. Having more will benefit Marches.

CASTING TIMES
1) -Song Spellcasting and Fast Cast stack. This includes Nightingale. Note that Fast Cast is usually measured by Recast Time. The Casting Reduction is double - IE: Marduk Set will give you -15% Casting Time.
2) You only need to wear the gear at the start of the spell to benefit from the casting time reduction. You can swap into other gear after the spell has started.
3) Using the above strat, Minstrel's Ring becomes much more valuable due to the fact that you can swap in HP gear and trigger latent, then change into other gear. No need to get hit and stay in yellow.

MP GEAR
1) HMP > Refresh when resting.
2) Refresh > HMP when standing.
3) If you swap frequently, you may lose MP often. Instead, focus on faster MP generation rather than how much MP you can get.
4) It is a good idea for any BRD to carry at least enough MP to reach 150 MP while weak so you can recast Reraise and help with Raises if needed. (/WHM only)

RECAST
1) Haste and Fast Cast help a ton. (duh!)
2) You have to be wearing it after the spell goes off to benefit.
3) This can be counter productive when debuffing (ie: reducing your magic accuracy). Sha'ir Hands can be a decent alternative to wearing all that Haste+Fast Cast gear for debuff songs.


Right now, your gear isn't good any anything specific. Diversify your gear and use some good equip macros to maximize your usefulness. BLM's and RDM's gear swap when nuking, Melee gear swap between TP and WS gear, there's no reason BRD can't too.
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Asmoranomar - Diabolos
BRD/RDM - Song Cast Time Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup
#7 Dec 21 2008 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Other guy: hq staves and goliard clogs.


Oracle's wouldn't be a better goal?


why not, i dunno, get both?
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Kelia, Bahamut. RDM/WHM/BLM/BRD/BST/PLD/SMN75 ~ Next: mystery melee
http://refreshwhore.livejournal.com
Discordia, 80 human gimpmage + Vrtra, nub drood - Shattered Halls EU
iRage (。◕‿‿◕。)
#8 Dec 22 2008 at 4:33 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, that's a lot of good information, thanks. I should probably have mentioned my merits, too, that was silly of me. 3/5 Lullaby Recast, 3/8 Wind Instrument Skill, and 1/5 Troubadour and Nightingale. I'm planning on capping Lullaby, Minuet, Wind Instrument and Troubadour, then 4/5 in Adventurer's Dirge. That may sound strange, but my LS does a particular method of killing the ZNM Hydra that involves me Pianissimo Ballad/Marching two Paladins, so the less enmity I accumulate the better, and Nightingale is really just a toy, useful in merit parties occasionally.

Some questions to clarify, just for me:

Quote:
DEBUFFING
1) Only +song instruments increase potency. The rest of your gear should be focused on increasing the accuracy of your spell.
2) HQ staves are worth more than the rest of your equipment combined. If you don't have them, sell off your equipment and buy them. You will benefit more from a HQ staff than you will from CHR and Skill.
3) Try to get around 110-120 CHR first, then work on Skill or Magic Accuracy.


So 120 CHR is optimal for debuffing, then skill beyond that? I can do that with Relic pants. So that, with my current resources, would be something like this:

Light/Earth / Bugard / (instrument)
B.Roundlet / Star Necklace / Melody / Melody
Errant Houp / Choral Cuffs / Nereid / Nereid
Jester's / Gleeman's / B.Cannions / Goliard Clogs

That's 70+50, 2 M.Acc, 16 skill, and 10% m.acc bonus, if I remember what Elemental Staves do correctly. Seems like I'm pretty much at par here, and a Jester's Cape +1 would be 60k better spent elsewhere than a simple whitebox, at least as long as I'm subbing WHM. The 3 extra CHR would put me at 119 for BRD/NIN. I'll ponder.

Quote:
BUFFING
1) +Song and Skill increase potency. Sing = String = Wind in terms of song potency from buffs.
2) When using a stringed instrument, String skill is the only stat that determines the range of a song. *IF* you choose to use string, I recommend focusing on its range rather than its potency. Most notable situation where this is useful is for doubling the range of ballads for a mage party.
3) CHR and Magic Accuracy is worthless during buffs.
4) Try to get around 462 Skill to cap Minuets. Having more will benefit Marches.


Didn't know that tidbit about String skill and range, thanks. Maybe Bard feet and Choral body are worth something after all. But for a normal Wind Instrument setup...

Light/Earth / Bugard / (instrument)
B.Roundlet / Star Necklace / Melody / Melody
Errant Houp / Choral Cuffs / Nereid / Nereid
Jester's / Gleeman's / C.Cannions +1 / Goliard Clogs

Basically the change there is from Relic to AF+1 pants. Immediate upgrades I see are hands+1 (should be getting that piece soon, we're about to start Temenos and that's the item I need), either Piper's or Wind Torque (which one day I shall acquire), and a Singing/Wind earring. With my 3 Wind merits, my skill is at 462, so I'm glad my Minuets are capped, I'd never seen that number before. Got some work to do here, I suppose.

Quote:

CASTING TIMES
1) -Song Spellcasting and Fast Cast stack. This includes Nightingale. Note that Fast Cast is usually measured by Recast Time. The Casting Reduction is double - IE: Marduk Set will give you -15% Casting Time.
2) You only need to wear the gear at the start of the spell to benefit from the casting time reduction. You can swap into other gear after the spell has started.
3) Using the above strat, Minstrel's Ring becomes much more valuable due to the fact that you can swap in HP gear and trigger latent, then change into other gear. No need to get hit and stay in yellow.


I can stand in 9% Haste and I have one merit in Nightingale, and that's about all as far as casting time/recasting time goes. I'm not particularly concerned here, because Bard songs cast slow, end of story. Once I'm done with Nyzul, I'll start Periqia Assaults for a Gomlek.

Quote:

MP GEAR
1) HMP > Refresh when resting.
2) Refresh > HMP when standing.
3) If you swap frequently, you may lose MP often. Instead, focus on faster MP generation rather than how much MP you can get.
4) It is a good idea for any BRD to carry at least enough MP to reach 150 MP while weak so you can recast Reraise and help with Raises if needed. (/WHM only)


I'm very happy with my MP set, with Turban, Saio, and Cannions giving me 286 MP and 153 while weakened, and I can squeeze another 62 in if I absolutely have to. You're absolutely right about being able to Raise/Reraise while weak, it's a huge help. Considering how simple a Pianissimo + Ballad is, I'm not terribly worried about obtaining a Refresh piece. What is there for Bard anyway besides -headpiece cloaks? Gaudy Harness, Marduk's Jubbah, the Aht Urghan Ring during Assault...that's all I can think of. What am I missing?

Quote:

RECAST
1) Haste and Fast Cast help a ton. (duh!)
2) You have to be wearing it after the spell goes off to benefit.
3) This can be counter productive when debuffing (ie: reducing your magic accuracy). Sha'ir Hands can be a decent alternative to wearing all that Haste+Fast Cast gear for debuff songs.


Again, Bard songs cast slow. I have 9% haste, plus 3 merits in Lullaby recast, so once I finish those and acquire a little more Haste gear like Swift Belt and Yigit Gomlek, I'll be sitting pretty. Lullaby is almost the only spell you need to be able to recast ASAP, with the exception of Dispelga mobs.

As long as we're on the subject of gear sets, I'm curious about the state of my DD Bard set. Before I even type it out, my hand piece is really sad and I'm going for Goliard Cuffs to replace it, one day I'll perhaps have money for Dusk Gloves. My main dagger is also rather weak, but it's not unacceptable either.

Gully / Joyeuse / Instrument
W.Turban / Chiv.Chain / Suppanomimi / Ethereal Earring
B.Justaucorps / Battle Gloves / Woodsman Ring / Rajas Ring
Amemet+1 / Gleeman's Belt / C.Cannions+1 / G.Clogs

Dusk hands/feet would be nice. I tossed my Dancing Dagger because I liked the stats on the Gully, and upgrades are extremely expensive. Heart Snatcher seems to be much better for BRD than for THF, am I right? Perhaps I'll do Double Dragonian and try to get Body Slam at the same time. Goliard Cuffs would be a solid upgrade, giving +1 Acc, +4 Att, and +4 M.Acc to aid in debuffs I'd cast while DDing.

So, overall, I'm doing fairly well. Clearly, the biggest upgrade needs to be in my +skill gear. Pity relic hands are so pointless. I'll be getting 5 Singing when I finish my AF+1 hands, and my LS has been camping the Beadeux NMs quite a bit so I could realistically get a Piper's Torque soon. Thank you very much for the advice, everyone, I appreciate it a lot!



Edited, Dec 22nd 2008 7:34am by mikauk
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Server: Bahamut
BRD 75 BLU 90 DNC 90 WHM 90 THF 75 WAR 40 NIN 90 SCH 45

#9 Dec 22 2008 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I can stand in 9% Haste and I have one merit in Nightingale, and that's about all as far as casting time/recasting time goes. I'm not particularly concerned here, because Bard songs cast slow, end of story. Once I'm done with Nyzul, I'll start Periqia Assaults for a Gomlek.


Haste does nothing for your Casting Time, only your recast. While Casting Time isn't as important as Buffing or Debuffing, it is important for many things. You can pull off faster exp chains; more buffs/rotation; buff in a potentially hazzardous situation on the frontlines and then return to the back (get in/get out). Reduced Casting Time can also increase the amount of time to do other things, such as healing/resting/pulling/etc.

Your also mistaken on "Bard songs cast slow, end of story" for three reasons:
1) All -Song Spellcasting and Fast Cast are done in percentages. This means the longer the cast time of a spell, the greater the bonus. -25% Casting Time bonus on Minstrel's Ring saves alot more time on song buffs than a well geared RDM's -52% bonus on Dia. Thats is 2s vs .5s saved respectively. You could say that -SST and FC gear is ideal for long casting spells, and they cater directly to us.
2) Most jobs only cast spells as needed, there aren't many jobs that are on a predictable and dedicated spell rotation such as BRD. At a minimum, we cast 2 songs back-to-back. Usually its 4, sometimes more. Because of this, our 8 second buff songs just turned into 16, 32 or more. Long songs indeed - but the potential to recieve larger cast time reductions increase...
3) Thru the use of abilities and equipment, BRD can recieve the largest -Casting Time reduction in the game. Right now, it is possible to get -59% Casting Time thru gear alone. Toss on Nightingale and we get a whopping -109% Casting time on songs. If you thought Nightingale was fast, this will make you sing so fast you'll be done buffing before you even think about it!

Some caveats: While -109% does sound ****, unfortuantely Fast Cast, Nightingale and -Song Spellcasting don't stack in such a way to make that possible. The formula used is unknown, but for all general purposes, it has been measured to be from 75-80% of the original casting time. This is still VERY significant, as it reduces an 8 second song to less than 2 seconds. You can still sing a 4 buff rotation in less time than it takes to sing one.

Casting Time is something you shouldn't be quick to brush-off. While the gear required to pull the ultimate setup is quite difficult to obtain and requires very specific pieces, the significant bonuses on even the smallest pieces shouldn't be ignored.

Quote:
-headpiece cloaks? Gaudy Harness, Marduk's Jubbah, the Aht Urghan Ring during Assault...that's all I can think of. What am I missing?


Dalmatica, Ixion Cloak, Vermillion Cloak, Yigit Set, Storm Fife(Assault), and your usual Signet/Sigil bonuses (obviously not gear).

Quote:
Heart Snatcher seems to be much better for BRD than for THF, am I right?


The only thing that makes Heart Snatcher better for BRD over THF, is the fact that you can't sell it to buy a Magnet Knife!

For all the reasons HS sucks for THF, it'll suck for BRD. You would benefit from buying something else.

Quote:
So, overall, I'm doing fairly well. Clearly, the biggest upgrade needs to be in my +skill gear. Pity relic hands are so pointless. I'll be getting 5 Singing when I finish my AF+1 hands, and my LS has been camping the Beadeux NMs quite a bit so I could realistically get a Piper's Torque soon. Thank you very much for the advice, everyone, I appreciate it a lot


Your welcome - and don't be confined to just the advice here. Go find your role, your niche, and make it better. Do something unhead of, and bring it back here.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2008 6:50pm by Asmoranomar
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Asmoranomar - Diabolos
BRD/RDM - Song Cast Time Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup
#10 Dec 22 2008 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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don't buy singing and wind earrings before buying wind torque/hq staves... also don't wait on piper's torque imo because a) it hardly ever drops and b) wind torque is cheaper. so unless your ls is in beastman strongholds every day, just pony up.
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Kelia, Bahamut. RDM/WHM/BLM/BRD/BST/PLD/SMN75 ~ Next: mystery melee
http://refreshwhore.livejournal.com
Discordia, 80 human gimpmage + Vrtra, nub drood - Shattered Halls EU
iRage (。◕‿‿◕。)
#11 Dec 22 2008 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
Smiley: blushSkip me since I'm dumb and double posted. :o Read the next post down!Smiley: drool2

Edited, Dec 22nd 2008 6:59pm by Etain
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Binya ~ 85 Worgen Priest ~ Hellscream
Esa ~ 85 Night Elf Druid ~ Hellscream
Various other toons ~ Ner'zhul and Hellscream


Etain ~ 75THF/BRD/WHM ~ Fenrir (May 2004-March 2009)
#12 Dec 22 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
mikauk wrote:
I apologize for creating a new topic, but I don't see one on the front page and I'd like to get some advice on my gear. I have a couple slots that very obviously need help, but I'm not sure which direction to go.

Main: Earth/Light Staff
Sub: Bugard Grip +1
Ranged: (Instrument)
Head: Bard's Roundlet
Neck: Star Necklace
Earrings: Melody Earringx2
Body: Goliard Saio
Hands: Choral Cuffs
Rings: Nereid Ringx2
Back: Jester's Cape
Waist: Gleeman's Cape
Legs: Choral Cannions+1
Feet: Goliard Clogs

Obviously, HQ the cape, that is my immediate farming goal. HQing the earrings is going to take me longer, and Singing/Wind Earrings and Wind Torque are completely out of my price range at the moment. I guess my biggest question is Goliard Saio VS Errant Houp, and to a lesser extent Relic VS AF+1 pants. Also, is Goliard Chapeau worth it ever if I have W Turban and Bard's Roundlet?



I would personally prioritize your purchases as:

1) Wind Torque
2) Jester's +1
3) Earring/s (check the price of Ancient Beastcoins on your server vs. a WInd or Singing Earring- the going rate for a Wind Earring on my server is 630,000 gil, vs. 12,500 if you paid 5500 gil/Ancient Beast coin for all 75 coins... and +5 Wind > +3 Wind Smiley: wink) (could be swapped with 4)
4) Apollo's/Terra's Staves (can be swapped with 3, honestly)

What would you be using the Saio for? Myself, since I got it its used in my Utsusemi macro/s, Finale macro, and cures (-enmity ftw). Outside of that- on BRD- I don't use it much. The hoppeloude is going to give you more mileage in the end (MND, CHR, and -enmity).

Relic vs. AF+1 Pants... the pants win, imo. That 8 Wind is useful for buffs and debuffs, whereas the CHR on the Relic is only useful on debuffs.

Goliard Chapeau... I use mine for Stoneskin and Cures. That's all (on BRD). The CHR on it is meh, since its roughly the same as the Roundlet- and the Roundlet has the added bonus of Singing Skill.
If you're cramped for space, skip the Chapeau and keep with Turban+Roundlet.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2008 7:00pm by Etain
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Binya ~ 85 Worgen Priest ~ Hellscream
Esa ~ 85 Night Elf Druid ~ Hellscream
Various other toons ~ Ner'zhul and Hellscream


Etain ~ 75THF/BRD/WHM ~ Fenrir (May 2004-March 2009)
#13 Dec 22 2008 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know!
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Server: Bahamut
BRD 75 BLU 90 DNC 90 WHM 90 THF 75 WAR 40 NIN 90 SCH 45

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