Bard puller?Follow

1. because we can pull while the party is fighting

2. because we dont really have much to do once songs are up

3. because we can sleep things

4. because when we pull, elegy will already be applied to an enemy as soon as the tank starts getting hit

5. because we can pull while the party is fighting

Are you asking this because you are a lower level BRD? It's difficult at lower levels, but not impossible, nor does it require /NIN. I pulled in the dunes on BRD. I used Dia. Requiem gives a slight lag, and gets you smashed on the way back to camp. When you get the first Elegy, it becomes a bit easier to pull, but is still never fun until you get Stoneskin. [I don't really like /NIN, and have pulled as high as chain 148 as /WHM, in a 1 BRD merit pt -- someone had to pee at that point -_-;;]

BRD pulling may seem difficult at certain camps in Signet areas. A BRD does alot more than just sing songs at lower levels, they can be a very competent back up healer, debuffer, and as always, buff the melee. But when you hit the mid 50's, and ToAU camps become the more prevalent places that parties will require you to come to, a BRD's duties become basically MIN/MAD, Balladx2, and Elegy the next mob back to camp. At that point, we become the most efficient pullers, because we can do our 4 songs, and head out when the mob is 30-40% dead, and bring another by the time its 0-10% dead, and keep the exp flowing. Is this something that BRD does forever? No. Endgame is much the same as lower levels, you can be called upon for those -na spells, helpful cures and curagas, as well as great debuffs [if you have the skillset.] But in 52-75 exp range? BRD is puller and master of EXP flow.

That being said....



This is bullsh*t. I have both THF and BRD 75. THF is a great puller, and can keep high chains as a puller. But it requires them to leave early, before the mob is dead. That means they, 1.) lose tp for SA/TA/SATA, 2.) lose DoT damage on the mob, making for slower kills. If a BRD is in the party and won't pull becuase we have a THF, I boot the BRD.

If it's lower levels, suck it up, tough it out, or don't level sync anymore [since you said you were 60.] At higher levels, BRD is the ONLY puller, unless there isn't a BRD in the pt [or you die and get weakened, in which case the THF can keep pulling so that you maintain chain 100...]

edit: IDK some kind of formatting error..

Edited, Oct 11th 2008 12:00am by Palides

Edited, Oct 11th 2008 12:04am by Palides

Because when THFs cap Marksmanship, they magically run out of bolts..........wut?

A long time ago, at lower levels, I couldn't remember BRD ever pulling unless there were no THFs or RNGs around (or WARs and SAMs with a bow). BRD/WHM helped heal, and while other jobs were pulling, they rested for mp with the mages. (1 Ballad isn't fast enough, and all mages typically ran out of MP quickly) BRD/NIN wasn't all that useful, because the primary limiting factor was mage MP... and BRD/NIN can't help with cures.

BRD could certainly pull then, but you would either have a PL, or some unusually powerful party. Otherwise you were far more useful not pulling.

This was all pre-ToAU of course. It could be that there have been enough changes since that now BRDs are the most efficient pullers of any level... or all the merit mentality people have just lost touch with lower level partying. I'm not certain.

Not sure about that. In a nice static or one-in-a-million party that can just keep on going, yeah, BRD often has the free time to pull better. If there are significant MP pauses, BRD/WHM's support role grows, and pulling can detract from it; considering the DD will all just be standing there waiting, one of them should be out looking ready to pull. It doesn't detract from DD role at all in that situation, unless sitting on their hands is part of the job.

That was how it was anyways, but I was in mostly pick-up parties too. It was so very very rare that I was in a party good enough that BRD was more efficient pulling, but that happened too. It was only more recently that in signet areas melee could rest without losing tp, so that might have changed things a bit too?

It wasn't like that 55+, but was the average for parties lower than that. Maybe I was just unlucky most of the time? I don't think I was. That was like 3 years ago at least, and it was average as far as I remember.

One thing is that you have to realize that Bard is not always the best puller (somehow it has become a default nowadays even in situations that Bard should not have been pulling). If your PT is only chaining 4 or 5, any other jobs with the appropriate tools can pull just as fast as well. imo Bard pulling is only have extra benefits if you are killing fast.

This gets back to the fact BARD NEEDS MP/hMP GEAR! You are a lolBRD that you are not willing to help cures. In slower PTs, sitting near your PT and help curing is better than run off and pull while your mages are spending more MP then they need to.

Good times? I used to cartwheels whenever I got a 15k/hr on Deco's/Bone's with a pickup group. 15k seems to be the norm with any pickup party I have now. Harder =! better.

In merits, if your PT is killing so slowly that you have time to regularly throw out cures you are doing it wrong (or your PT is doing it wrong and you are better off disbanding and finding a better PT that doesn't need lolbackupcure).

For good BRD pullers in good merit parties, subjob is really only used for whatever flavor of damage mitigation you prefer, i.e. Utsusemi or Stoneskin/Blink (and maybe the occasional emergency cure).

Other endgame events, of course, are a different story.

Edited, Oct 21st 2008 4:59am by ShibuyaOnShiva

Clearly you people have too strong feelings for this subject.

That's all that matters, right Ama? And I am having fun and doing quite well for myself.

I dont think that you can get constant Chain 6s until lvl 55.

Why? Because the available gear, the Weaponskills and you JAs arent good enough to get Chain 6 reliable.

So, not the speed of pulling is the limiting factor here, but the combination of healing support and the ability to deal fast dmg.

In such a scenario a pulling brd would be of less benefit than a "resting for MP" brd. It makes sure, that you puller doesnt need to stop after Chain 5 because your whm/smn/rdm is out of mp. This is important, because getting Chain 5 and never stop pulling is the key to good exp at lower lvls. Getting Chain 6 and then wait 5 mins for your healer regaining mp is made of fail.

plus ... foe lulluby isnt reliable befor light staff anyway.



Edited, Oct 22nd 2008 8:22am by cBalerion

Getting chain 5 constantly and not stopping is still much, MUCH better exp than resting to full MP after every fight to chain 5, and a pt with a BRD in it should NOT be doing the latter, that sounds like a ~50 party in kuftal or a 62~ party on eruca.

I had a ~53 party on crabs the other day, NIN SAM SAM PLD BRD RDM, constant BRD pulling, we got 9k/hr average with a couple of breaks included and we never got a higher chain than 5.

Another plus side to having a bard pull is that if you are competing for mobs (like in Kuftal which is skillup/NPC heaven) they can go look for a mob right after starting songs and not have to worry so much about keeping chain when mobs are scarce.

I got chain 8's and 9's in Garlaige Citadel at 35-38. BRD [me] DNC x3, DRG, NIN/THF [don't ask me why - everyone else was JP.] Around 11k an hour before someone dinged 38, and it slowed a lot.

Regulary gotten chain 6, and once a chain 7, in Qufim at {Ice}{pond}{worm}{camp} using different set ups. Usually 8-9k an hour. F*cking amazing with level sync now, as you can just 18-22, someone leaves grab another 18 and hit it up. Went RDM 18-36 this way, lol.

Gotten chain 6 in several different parties in W. Altep beetles [required puller to leave camp at 30-40% because of mob distance.] Best party ever was 2 THF, 2 SAM, BRD, and BLM main healer, a random pick up group I made, lol. Went form 42-45 in under 2 hours.

It's definitely possible to break chain 5 in a good low level party, where everyone does their job, and maybe does a *gasp* SC. I got chain 27 at level 60 leypoint camp once, on my PLD no less, and without a RDM or BRD.. =P

edit: spelling


Edited, Oct 23rd 2008 1:31am by Palides

Hard to believe for me .. since almost every non-ToAU camp is limited by Mob Number and Respawntimers.

And if you were at the entrance camp i find that even harder to believe, because you have 2 Bat and 2 Beetle spawns nearby and the others way further in.

And even harder to believe, because even average KRT MNK burns only gave around 12K an hour.

So id like a parser screenshot or it didnt happen for me.

a proper KRT party (read: BRD knows how to pull, WHM knows how to cast banish, MNKs know how to do damage, RDM and WHM know how to conserve MP) is infinite chain and pushes 15k+/hr. no one does it anymore, but gauging possibility at other camps by how well bad players did in KRT isn't very smart. it's like saying an average nyzul bird PT gets 12k/hr, which it does if you constantly lose chain. an average half-way competent bird PT gets 18k/hr.

i agree, but DRG owns citadel, so if you have enough available mobs (and you can if lucky), i'd believe chain 6+ with a DRG + BRD + other PT in sh*tadel.

i've gotten around that before. at 36/37 we were getting around 15k/hr, with brd (me), cor (cor roll), drg, sam, thf, DD, 75rdm. we ended up fighting the ghosts north of the gate, because the entire floor was cleared out lol.

I'll agree to that - when MP isn't limiting, xp/hr can greatly increase. It's about efficiency, and I still find efficiency to be at its peak as a BRD pulls, regardless of level. And, the sooner you learn to do it, the happier people will be. (Note: I wasn't the BRD pulling in that situation, but my point stays valid)