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Changes to the new 2 hour abilityFollow

#1 Aug 18 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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the two-hour abilities for Paladin and Beastmaster are being adjusted, increasing the enmity spike for Paladin's ability and changing the Reraise effect for Beastmaster's to a potent Stoneskin equal to half the maximum HP of the used pet.


It's an interesting change, we're talking about a 2300ish stoneskin effect. This seems a bit more useful as an ohshi* ability then giving a RR effect. I can see using it when the chips are falling, then popping a new jug and being able to recover the situation.

Thoughts?
#2 Aug 18 2012 at 6:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's better, yeah. In the same way that a 15-car collision is better than a 16-car collision.
#3 Aug 19 2012 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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My pet is already a stoneskin effect that's not cut in half. And I can recover it every minute with reward, or constantly with mulsum, instead of every 2 hours.

And who's betting it's the same 30 second duration on the effect like most two hour abilities? Even the 5 minute duration of normal stoneskin would be too weak for a two hour ability, but I'm betting on the 30 second duration.
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#4 Aug 20 2012 at 9:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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louispv wrote:
My pet is already a stoneskin effect that's not cut in half. And I can recover it every minute with reward, or constantly with mulsum, instead of every 2 hours.

If you're out of mulsums and Ready isn't quite up and you're pet is about to die, I could see this being useful to mitigate the risk of doing a pet swap in a difficulty fight (since the stoneskin effect's potency is based on the pet's max HP, not its HP at the time the ability is used).
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#5 Aug 20 2012 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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I guess my thought is... that this is still pretty weak. Consider this, it is basically a single target benediction, with a reasonably potent stoneskin, that we need to sacrifice something we pay gil for to get.

So whm can heal the HP and the status ailments of the whole party without sacrificing anything... um, why should we have to give up our pet for less?
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#6 Aug 20 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess my initial impression of utility was based on an old playstyle, from a time when I was perpetually waiting on all my timers, from reward to sic to call beast. Something like solo'ing Despot at 75, where I would have to kite between timers and an unfortunate couple of hits or a tiger that went down too quickly would result in death.

The more I think about it though, I'm having a really hard time remembering the last time I had to wait on a timer. Call beast is ALWAYS ready when I need it. Reward is ALWAYS ready when I need it. Additionally, I can't remember the last time I cared about not dying, at least not enough to burn a 2 hour ability to prevent it, let alone give up 10% pet haste for it.

I guess the biggest roadblock for me to use this ability is gonna be not only when is it gonna be useful, but when will I not have already used Familiar.
#7 Nov 20 2012 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Slycer, from BlueGartr Forums wrote:
Beastmaster:
For the duration of the effect, the success rate of "Charm" is increased, and the recast of "Call Beast" is set to 0. (Duration: 60 seconds)

Furthermore, upon using "Charm" or "Call Beast," the pet's TP will be set to 300 and the recast of "Sic" and "Ready" will be reset.

There is still a need to consume broth for each beast called, but we'd like to make an exception to this so that you can quickly call beasts or charm to use several pet techniques successively from different pets.


Official Forums wrote:
Beastmaster:
While active, the success rate of Charm will increase and Call Beast’s recast timer will not activate. Additionally, every time Charm or Call Beast is executed, the pet will have 300 TP and the recast timers for Sic and Ready will reset. (Effect duration: 60 seconds)

Though it will be necessary to consume jugs, it will be possible to use Charm/Call Beast and then Leave at a very high frequency, enabling you to switch out your pets in a short interval of time to use a variety of abilities.


Latest changes to the BST SP ability. Thoughts? Saw Byrth mention 1000 Needles spam, haha. XD

This opens some enfeebling opportunities too, provided you're in a group with someone else tanking the monster. Maybe better to use some cheaper jugs for that purpose, like Cunning Brain Broth, Cloudy Wheat Broth, Lucky Carrot Broth...

Corrosive Ooze (Atk/Def-33%) and Purulent Ooze (Bio/HP-10%) are two moves that I always wish I could stack straight away on NMs. Blaster and Chaotic Eye as well, depending on the mob. There are a few offensive Ready moves that might be worthwhile, though it'll depend on your pocketbook, heh.

Edit: This SP is also limited by the Fight command recast of 10 seconds, so it'd be 5 Ready/Sic moves maximum, yes?

Edited, Nov 20th 2012 5:40pm by Bookmarku
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#8 Nov 20 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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sounds expensive. So are they ditching the self-bene/stoneskin for this or is it in addition to? The problem is jug abilities are mostly pretty meh. And this sounds pretty cumbersome. But I think it would be all right if popping it also gave the cure/stoneskin. Otherwise I'm not sure what the use would be, really, since sending the jug away would have a monster beating your face in... which really isn't worth having happen for even the -very best- results of back heel, or wild carrot or foot kick etc

I could see it being okay in an alliance maybe sort of... pop it, use gerard to cut monster HP, leave, use gerard to cut monster def/att, leave, use tiger to put para on? I dunno... but that's still pretty pathetic (and expensive)

Edited, Nov 20th 2012 2:40pm by Olorinus
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#9 Nov 20 2012 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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This new special ability is a replacement to the cure skin nonsense.

I really like the idea, and I'm eager to test it out, but I'm not sure how great it will be.
Fight has a 12 second recast, yes, 10 seconds... and I expect I'll be asking them to reset that recast as well.

This really makes me want to organize the ready moves more.

Edited, Nov 20th 2012 9:30pm by Xilk
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#10 Nov 21 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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More information on the BST SP2:

Slycer, from Bluegartr Forums wrote:
We introduced the ability yesterday under the premise that you could use various special skills by switching pets, but this may have been a misleading description of how it works, so I will explain it again (and also correct yesterday's explanation).

Regarding the added TP/charges.
*The TP is 300 at the moment use you use Charm or Call Beast and this effect will not be reduced for the duration of the ability.
*The recast of Sic and Ready will be zero during this time.
*The maximum charge state is not reduced by using Ready (or Sic) during this time, even with the moves that consume the most charges.

Thus, it is possible to perform special techniques continuously without switching pets. The idea is much the same as Astral Conduit for Summoner.

Originally Posted by Manta-ray wrote:

I can't just immediately bring a pet out and fight with it. It takes about 10 seconds after Charming a pet before I can "Fight" with it, which means that you can maybe charm or call 5 times (if you're lucky) over the minute this ability lasts.


Without switching pets you can use several abilities in a row even without using the "Fight" command. Additionally, even if you do use the Fight command, since there is also some delay in the execution of the special abilities, we don't imagine that it will present much issue.


If there are no major problems in verifying these abilities, we will be introducing them to the test server tomorrow. Please try them out.


Official Forums wrote:
Beastmaster:

Let me clarify a bit more on how this ability will work…
When you use Charm or Call Beast, your pet will instantly receive 300 TP, and it will remain at 300 TP while the effect is active and will not decrease.
The recast timers for both Sic and Ready will become 0 while the effect is active.
Charges will be set to the maximum, and while the effect is active they will not be consumed even when using Sic or Ready.

With that said, if you don’t want to change your pet to use different abilities, it will be possible to use abilities back to back even on a single pet.


Edit: Here's something to check out once this is on the Test Server... We can see if the Fantod effect stacks, like the BLU version? Fantod > Back Heel combo spam could be nice damage...

Edited, Nov 21st 2012 5:28pm by Bookmarku
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#11 Nov 21 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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NICE!! that is how it should be!!
Hurray for not NEEDING to spend tons of pets!
I"ve been testing pet ready moves all day. I"ll post information in the pet testing thread soon.
I've found a few small surprises.
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#12 Nov 22 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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I wonder how effective TP drainkiss will be?

I was thinking awhile ago of strategically using this to stop a mob from using tp moves.. but if pet tp stays at 300% this move may be completely innefective.. or it might rock to spam and completely prevent an NM from using tp moves like the new drk special move, only longer duration.

Edited, Nov 22nd 2012 12:20pm by Xilk
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#13 Nov 23 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
BST SP 2
I notice that the SP2 does NOT reset the call beast timer.

If Call Beast is down when you use SP 2, you will NOT be able to switch pets during the special move.
It prevents recast timers from activating at all. It does not reset already active ones.

It would be nice if this was changed so that it also resets the active call beast/sic/ready recast timers, but not critical. Its something to be aware of.

Ready moves are able to be sent about every 5 seconds. It may vary depending on the speed of the animation for each ability. I'll check again, but it seemed Sic would go alot faster where the animations were overlapping. This may have simply been the pet I was using.

The Fantod > Backheel spam idea didn't quite work out.
IT can be done of course, as Falkirk showed when Falcorr was new. However, I found that pet would always get a hit in before I could Get the Backheel command sent. So the Boost effect would be spent before backheel. Instead I had to fantod > Heel > Fight > Backheel. This is a bit more tedious and time consuming.

I used the same method to test if Fantod could stack with itself. It does not appear to do so as the boost effect does for a mnk or a bluemage.


Xilk, this is a pile of sadness. ; ;

How was your experience with other pets? Looking at a move like... Foot Kick, for example, would there still be a 5ish second delay because of the Ready command, or could you spam it? Pretty disheartened about the Fantod/Back Heel business.

And as you said, they really ought to reset Call Beast/Sic/Ready timers...
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#14 Nov 23 2012 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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actually I double checked. It does reset the sic/ready recast timer already. I tried using jettatura then using the special ability, and it reset the ready recast completely.

it just doesn't reset the call beast timer. I tried removing my pet haste gear and doing the fantod > backheal again, but to no avail. maybe if you use fight from a distance, fantod, before pet gets there, you can get backheel off before it uses boost on another move. It would only work for starting it. but feasible.


I put a post in the main thread on SE forums asking to have it reset the call beast recast as well. please + it to support the idea. Dev's pay attention to lots of +'s

Edited, Nov 23rd 2012 10:09pm by Xilk
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#15 Nov 23 2012 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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As far as other combo's that work well...
I think if you can get someone to let you come to a zerg fight, starting w/ purulent ooze > corrosive ooze > dd pet of your choice would be rather effective.

corrosive ooze lasts for ~60seconds and its the strongest def down in the game. Also the bio from purulent ooze will stack w/ the attack down from corrosive ooze. for a net attack down of +~ 40%.

Acid mist is stronger, and last longer, but it is only attack down. That a defensive enfeeble, not an offensive one.
The Ooze combination would be incredibly powerful. drop the first 10% of the NM's hp, drop its def by a 1/3 and give it a bio... that's like a 50% boost to the attack of all your dd's. I"d want to go w/ pet w/ super high attack after that. LIke Hobs or maybe Toloi.
IF its a fight you can actually give killer instinct on, then BST is one of the most potent offensive party boosts and a solid dd as well.

Also, both Julio and Louise have some VERY long duration enfeebles. Dropping Gloeosuccus and Palsy Pollen on a mob or group will turn them into squirming goo that can't quite damage you no matter how hard it struggles. Both enfeebles last 3 min and have very high potency. Thats a 33% slow and my best estimate at a 40% paralyze... (which really makes me want to supertank some beast family mobs) slow/para 50% killer effect 60%ish damage reduction...

And that bring me to a fun one which isn't much of a stretch from others.

use that fun killer effects gear to gather a nice fan club in my favorite place around sobek w/ lulush.
pile on the str+ atma. pull a nice crowd.
Then spam whirl claws and wild carrot

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#16 Nov 24 2012 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
I put a post in the main thread on SE forums asking to have it reset the call beast recast as well. please + it to support the idea. Dev's pay attention to lots of +'s


Done and done. :)

I updated my test server client to play with the new BST SP2... Despite the 3~4 second Ready move delay, it's still pretty sweet. :D

I attempted to create the BST version of this video, and managed to execute 15 Foot Kicks in 60 seconds - I won in 2min 31sec. :o Average Foot Kick damage was 1197 against the Seed Crystal.
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#17 Nov 24 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sweet!!!

Yeah, it is lots of fun! I"m surprised you got 15 Foot Kick off, Thats 1 every 4 seconds.
Thats fantastic!

Where's your video then?
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#18 Nov 24 2012 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The video didn't turn out very good, haha. So I'll leave it up to your imagination. :(
Foot Kick-burned Athamas into the ground in 45 seconds, too. XD

Still investigating some of the other pets - noticed the major delay on Fantod usage that you had mentioned.
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#19 Nov 24 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fantod has a long animation then it doesn't do it's thing till another attack. I can see foot kick being sweet. Too bad the animation for wild carrot is so long, still, could see that being fun for like a campaign battle or something, if you come in later to battle, spam several wild carrots, giving the npcs a second wind.... Uggh whirl claws and wild carrot supertanking campaign

Could also make bst more fun in WoE for a minute, get a handful of bsts to pop at the same time on a boss, burn it down quick before it eats everything with AoEs

Edited, Nov 24th 2012 1:54pm by Olorinus
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#20 Nov 24 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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In case you didn't notice, I love supertanking campaign with lucky lu

And dammit this thread has made me want to reactivate my sub...lol

Edited, Nov 24th 2012 1:55pm by Olorinus
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#21 Nov 24 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
In case you didn't notice, I love supertanking campaign with lucky lu

And dammit this thread has made me want to reactivate my sub...lol


Lucky Lulush... is friggin' awesome. :D Out of all the pets so far, it's looking to be one of the top contenders for damage output during BST SP2, with a combination of high damage and high frequency of Ready moves during those 60 seconds.

And there's quite a few different things we can use this SP ability for... Had some fun TP draining with Fatso, and stun-locking with Numbing Noise using Broncha.

Here is my personal best for squeezing as many ready moves into the SP2 time frame (and though not terribly meaningful, some average damage values on Athamas in Aby-Mis w/ Apoc, RR, VV):
Ready Move         Average Damage          Moves/minute 
Tail Blow                580                    12 
Spiral Spin              586                    13 
Blockhead                682                    14 
Recoil Dive              732                     9 
Frogkick                 774                    12 
Ripper Fang              903                    11 
Back Heel                908                    10 
Head ****               1011                    14 
Razor Fang              1014                    14 
Lamb Chop (w/Rage)      1014                    11 
Tortoise Stomp          1085                    15 
Nimble Snap             1113                    13 
Foot Kick               1812                    16

A lot of the success here involves quality connection/timing.

Edited, Nov 24th 2012 6:37pm by Bookmarku
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#22 Nov 25 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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nice!
Lulush has been my favorite for awhile from the versatile ready move selection.

The damage is really gonna be from atma and the fact that Foot Kick Crits.
I guess Lamb chop probably doesn't crit. then... I was wondering about that, but I never really use sheep. Raphie and Broncha are getting a 25% bonus for fighting vermin methinks. Tortoise stomp is also a 25% def down. I would think you'd have better damage after the first.

seeing the recast/min is great to see!
I wonder if you could get enouhg of a boost by landing Purlent/corrosive before switching to lulush.
Probably not in abyssea, but possibly outside. Then again, the crit damage would be different outside anyway. I wonder if stacking pure str atma would be a helpful test.

aqua breath from raphie is 1100 damage at 100% hp. so if he's not getting hit too much that will usually be stronger.

Edited, Nov 25th 2012 8:38am by Xilk
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#23 Nov 25 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, good call. :) It's safe to assume that you'd have RR in Abyssea, so he's a sure bet in those zones at the very least.

L^2 also proved to be quite effective against Pygmytoise down in Gustav Tunnel. I had tried Fantod > Back Heel on them, but it was only doing less than half damage compared to the Foot Kicks. Aqua Breath isn't bad, except for its long animation/delay, and there are resists against higher level foes.

Let's see if this worked: Click here for bunny rampage?

Edit: Got the ACP Final Boss fight recorded now too.

Edited, Nov 25th 2012 10:31am by Bookmarku
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#24 Nov 25 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Awesome!! thanx for the vids!
I love seeing it.

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#25 Nov 26 2012 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ha! You'll see the translation probably in about 6 hours, but it looks like it was an oversight, and they are gonna fix the call beast recast for the new bst sp2 so it resets it right when you use it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28267-%E6%96%B0SP%E3%82%A2%E3%83%93%E3%83%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%81%AE%E8%A6%8B%E7%9B%B4%E3%81%97%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6?p=381668#post381668
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#26 Nov 26 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Woohoo~ Nice!

Yet another reason why this new SP is so great. :D Glad to see them pick up on the error so soon.
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#27 Nov 26 2012 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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yeah this is good. Hopefully not too good... seeing lu burn down that spider makes me worry about nerfadoodles. I hope they recognize being able to burn down a seal tier NM is not a huge deal.
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#28 Nov 26 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Showing off some 75~85 content makes it seem pretty shiny... XD

It's gonna be a fantastic tool for any BSTs doing mission fights and whatnot. Though against a majority of modern foes, the damage dealt is rather hampered.

Actually, I poked Cerberus out in Mount Zhayolm shortly after those video recordings - I whittled down maybe ~8% of his health with Foot Kicks (used Corrosive Ooze before commencing the Lulush Kickfest). Average damage from Foot Kick was 340.

Cherufe (Wivre VW NM in Batallia Downs) was taking about 700ish damage per Foot Kick, so I knocked off ~5% of his HP with the BST SP2.

Moving away from simply talking about damage, I feel like the most interesting applications of this SP are gonna be enfeebling-/defense-related. Like, using a variety of pet moves in tandem to reduce a mob's ability to fight back, through Atk reduction, paralyze, silence, stun. Otherwise, the SP2 is just speeding up fights that were already very winnable.

Edited, Nov 26th 2012 3:42pm by Bookmarku
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#29 Nov 26 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Those were my thoughts exactly.

On high level content, our enfeebles are probably the most reliable.
We also have some uniquely powerful ones. That's why I wanted to get some solid testing done on them. Gooey, fargann, broncha and Julio probably have our most useful abilities for group work.
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#30 Nov 27 2012 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
Those were my thoughts exactly.

On high level content, our enfeebles are probably the most reliable.
We also have some uniquely powerful ones. That's why I wanted to get some solid testing done on them. Gooey, fargann, broncha and Julio probably have our most useful abilities for group work.


Basically, the Ready wiki page is one of my favorite new resources for BST pet info - thanks for the dedicated work on that. :)

How'd you figure out the DEF+X% on Harden Shell and Water Wall? Was curious about that.
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#31 Nov 27 2012 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Brenner, pet vs bluemage >> Voracious trunk.

I did not test for effects of tp on each ready move... that would be good to know, but I don't think I'll have the patience for it.
Besides, Most my testing all had aymur + ferine manoplas +2 equipped. for every war type that is a guarenteed 300% tp. and at least 250 for mnk, thf, pld types.
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#32 Dec 04 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Was scanning through the thread and noticed this:
Xilk wrote:
Raphie and Broncha are getting a 25% bonus for fighting vermin methinks.

Is that an actual thing? :o If so, then... I learned something new. XD
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#33 Dec 04 2012 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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Bookmarku wrote:
Was scanning through the thread and noticed this:
Xilk wrote:
Raphie and Broncha are getting a 25% bonus for fighting vermin methinks.

Is that an actual thing? :o If so, then... I learned something new. XD


... dang it... I think Its not...
I'm probably crossing wires in my head between blunt/piercing/slashing weakness and pet weaknesses.
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#34 Dec 29 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just returning to game, overwhelmed with all the changes. Question regarding this thread in particular: How is it that in the vids the Beastmaster has an ability called SP2? I have "Ready". Sorry if this is a silly question, but I can't figure it out.
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#35 Dec 29 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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"BST SP2" is just the temporary name for our new "2-hour" ability on the Test Server. :)

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#36 Dec 29 2012 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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309 posts
Aha! Thanks for clearing that up :)
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
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