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Comparing legendary Weapons - BSTFollow

#1 Dec 29 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's Right! Farsha vs Guttler vs Aymur !


NO, I'm not trying to prompt a hypethetical Arguement! I'm talking about actual practical comparisons!

Background: I was perusing the pup forums here and on SE where there is talk recently of testing kenkonken and I learned something about the test server.

If you go bug the magian weapon moogle to ask details about any of the trials, and you look at the result weapon of a trial, the moogle next asks "do you want it?" (YES/NO)

YOU BET YOUR WINGS AND POM-POM I WANT IT!!

Level 95 farsha, level 95 guttler and level 95 AYMUR!!! all available for your testing pleasure!

Disclaimer!

I am biased. I have not parsed results. I have not setup a detailed test to compare performance. (Although I might if you can help me think of some good comparisons!) I have always liked the idea of Aymur better than farsha or guttler.

Here is what I did do. I grabbed a bunch of free theta biscuits, Shadow broth and lucky broth and wandered down to the bottom of kuftal tunnel. The worms and tigers there are level 99~103. There may have been some EM's in there, but I didn't check any.

I was able to 5 chain kill T~VT mobs as normally as I would fight using a jug pet. 400~700 xp/kill and the GoV pages as well. I used a Theta biscuit every 2~5 kills w/ Falcorr; every 1 or 2 kills w/ Raphie. I didn't try DapperMac.

I mostly used Falcorr. As soon as I switched to Raphie, it was alot harder to keep hate on pet. Raphie takes alot less damage/hit, especially w/ hardened shell up, but he takes alot more hits and does alot less damage. I was not able to land the 1100 aqua breath even when using theta right before aqua breath. Worms and tiger resisted... it did less that 200 damage. Seems to me Raphie suffers ths same trouble compared to other pets that PLD faces toward other potential tanks. The other pets out-tank raphie just for killing faster or having more hp. Unless you find a specific NM (and they exist) with higher attack and accuracy which a pet just won't evade well... Raphie is not really the pet for the job. Tiger's have high attack, but falcorr was much better for tanking them.
Choke breath is BOTH silence and paralyze... this is so wonderful. don't forget how good it is to stop worms from acting AND casting so often. para on tigers was great help to pet tanking ability as well.
Fantod did 600 damage for a non-crit, and 1100 for a crit hit on VT tiger. That is the best I've seen a ready move do on a VT mob. Adding that to bst WS spike damage says ruinator 2k and fantod 1k means bst can spike 3k damage OUTSIDE abyssea! THESE are NOT EP mobs!


Farsha:

What can I say? All the bad things you have heard abou this are true. Primal rend really does do more damage than cloudsplitter. I think it has to do w/ what Byrth posted from studio Ghobli the other day as well (CHR used instead of int in the dINT calculation for Primal rend). The aftermath is very short. 20~30 seconds maybe... the double will proc a few times though adding maybe up to 300 damage in my fights. It's very disappointing. I have to agree w/ all the other negative endorsements I've read. Don't waste you time w/ this. If you really want to, feel free, but it will not impress you. Cloudsplitter LOOKS really cool. Thats the end of it.


Guttler

The number of Guttler out there are growing. This is a REALLY great DD axe. This is on equal footing w/ farsha in difficultly/time to obtain now. Actually it might be a bit easier, but more time consuming. BST is the best solo dyna-currency farming job atm. You can average w/out much trouble about 150 currency/day. (This is conservative, you can probably do more). This can be entirely solo'd by a bst. Farsha Bukhis kills are not easily soloed.
Onslaught is a really good WS. I popped up to 1800 damage on VT's using this. I don't have a great set for this, and making a dex set is a bit trickier. It won't fit as nicely w/ the other sets bst already has. The occasional spikes in damage are nice, choke is a great effect also and the acc-down from onslaught helps your eva tank even more. Using only gear haste and the double attack offhand axe (/dnc) I usually arrived at 100% tp right around the time the aftermath wore off. You can keep the aftermath up almost all the time on guttler.

Aymur
This one is still my favorite after finally using it. First, it just looks AWESOME! I noticed a few things I didn't expect before. The pet attack bonus is very noticeable on T~VT mobs, this much I was most looking forwrd to. However, it was MUCH easier to keep hate on pet w/ this axe, which is how bst play. Pet is just hitting harder. This will be most noticeable with higher def and higher level mobs. Also, I had to test the level 3 Aftermath. It takes a bit to get tp up to 300, but it lasts a LONG time. I was able to do 3 ruinator (5/5 merits) while under the effectof aftermath. It spans multiple fights. Pet double and triple attacking that much means you and pet are both doing that much more damage. Pet keeps using the aftermath even when you need to use other commands. If you have to use some other commands w/ the cloudsplitter aftermath, say goodbye completely to the aftermath. If you do during the onslaught aftermath, you'll lose 1/4 to 1/2 of the bonus. I could consistantly do over 1k primal rends on T~VT mobs. Ruinator was hitting 2k. The multihit and acc bonuses from aftermath help out the ruinator. between Aymur and Ferine Manoplas that is +100 TP to all ready moves. if its a war pet, that +150 (add fencer).


I tried Aymur first. Switching to guttler and farsha afterwords I saw performance dropping. I need some real data to actually confirm performance. However, I was most impressed by Aymur.

Shucks using aymur makes me want to go back and make fire magian axes for the pet attack+ in the mean time.

If you have test server access, you probably want to try it out. If you have good tests, I'll probably do them. I just wanted to share the info and experience.

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#2 Dec 29 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yups! Aymur all the way honestly ;) With AM3 lasting 3min, the only down side is the time to build up to that, which makes me curious what you feel what be the best offhand for it? Also, since you brought this up Xilk, can you double check my testing on enhances sic and ready. From what I can tell from the 95 version, Aymur itself seemed to push the total TP up 100, then with pet fencer and Ferine Manoplas+2 you see the capped verisons at 300% TP.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 11:07am by Dharshi
#3 Dec 29 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of Pet Attack... I know most of us aren't fortunate enough to have a Corsair at our beck and call, but:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Beast_Roll

SE is buffing this roll. These are the new numbers. If you click the link at the bottom of the page you can see the current numbers (left column). That's a pretty huge attack boost.
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#4 Dec 29 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Aymur > Guttler > Farsha seems rather odvious

Aymur+occ attacks 2-4 axe for 300 tp buff on pet

Guttler+double attack magian axe since extra hits work on guttler super crit

Farsha
A. situational with bloodclaw jug and lightning atma in abyessa

B. use it with the rest of your idle gear.
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#5 Dec 29 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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I will retest the tp bonus on Aymur 95 when I get on test server again.
That should be fairly easy. I already know that level 99 lulush cures 614 hp w/ wild carrot at max tp. Monster Gloves +2 means its always 99 ^.^

So that will be quick to test. IF it is +100 tp from aymur, then every war pet ready move will execute as if 300 tp when using aymur.. which is sweet.

Also... +80 to pet attack from beast roll is just SWEET. I need to find a mob to test attack+ stuff on.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 1:53pm by Xilk
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#6 Dec 29 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Confirmed Level 95 Aymur is giving +100 tp bonus to pet ready/sic moves.

Using wild carrot w/out ferine manoplas but with aymur yielded 614 hp recovered at 150% tp
Also, they indeed stack. 100% tp w/ both aymur and manoplas yielded 614 hp recovered. 250% tp w/ neither equiped was needed for 250% (as was already confirmed for fencer)

Wow... Aymur means almost always capped tp for ready moves. It means only for mnk, pld, and thf type pets will you have as low as 250% tp..



Edited, Dec 29th 2011 6:22pm by Xilk
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#7 Dec 30 2011 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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What I find odd is, 90+ versions of Aymur adds +50% straight TP and then +50% hidden TP. While the original 75 version only had the 50% straight TP that we can see added with pettp command. I can understand it building as the level increases, but why not just adjust the original formula instead of changing/adding a new one?

Anyhow, at least it's a little easier to understand why I complain about ready moves that cost more than 1 charge now. Smiley: smile
#8 Dec 30 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Xilk wrote:
I will retest the tp bonus on Aymur 95 when I get on test server again.
That should be fairly easy. I already know that level 99 lulush cures 614 hp w/ wild carrot at max tp. Monster Gloves +2 means its always 99 ^.^

So that will be quick to test. IF it is +100 tp from aymur, then every war pet ready move will execute as if 300 tp when using aymur.. which is sweet.

Also... +80 to pet attack from beast roll is just SWEET. I need to find a mob to test attack+ stuff on.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 1:53pm by Xilk


Did you know se posted on the offical forums few days ago in japanese(ofcourse) theyre enhancing certain rolls including bst roll? new one will be 11 roll+bst in pt will be +105 pet attack
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Busaman the Mighty wrote:
Man I barely remember life before wow. It was hard living in caves for shelter and fending off wild beasts with only a sharpened stick. Men women and children all dying from simple infections Food was scarce, sometimes all we had to eat would be a fallen member of the tribe.

Those were dark days indeed. Thank Raptor Jesus for delivering us from our sins with his only son, the World Of Warcraft


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#9 Dec 30 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Did you know se posted on the offical forums few days ago in japanese(ofcourse) theyre enhancing certain rolls including bst roll? new one will be 11 roll+bst in pt will be +105 pet attack


Yeah, this was what Byrth was talking about above.

I'm not sure whre you are getting the +105 though.

Here is the post.

and here is the table for Beast Roll:

ビーストロール(ペットの攻撃力アップ)
ロールの数字 旧効果値 新効果値
1 +12 +16
2 +15 +20
3 +18 +24
4 +48 +64
5 +21 +28
6 +24 +32
7 +30 +40
8 +6 +8
9 +33 +44
10 +36 +48
11 +60 +80
Bust -20 -25
Bonus +20 +25

the old values are on the left, the new improved values on the right. I see +80 for the 11 roll.

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#10 Dec 30 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
Fits with the table you posted. 80 for 11 roll, 25 for bonus from having bst in party, total 105.
#11 Dec 30 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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sleepygirl wrote:
Fits with the table you posted. 80 for 11 roll, 25 for bonus from having bst in party, total 105.



OH! thank you. I forgot how the job in party part of corsair rolls worked. its been so long since I've pt'd w/ one. ty. Wow, now I definitely want a corsair in party!
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#12 Jan 03 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Xilk wrote:
BST is the best solo dyna-currency farming job atm. You can average w/out much trouble about 150 currency/day. (This is conservative, you can probably do more). This can be entirely solo'd by a bst.


Could you please describe a basic currency farming strat for solo BST? I've gone in with Yuly a couple times just killing regular mobs trying to get my -1 hands, and didn't get anywhere close to that in currency. Are you farming specific NMs and triggering them? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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#13 Jan 03 2012 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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yankeestom wrote:
Xilk wrote:
BST is the best solo dyna-currency farming job atm. You can average w/out much trouble about 150 currency/day. (This is conservative, you can probably do more). This can be entirely solo'd by a bst.


Could you please describe a basic currency farming strat for solo BST? I've gone in with Yuly a couple times just killing regular mobs trying to get my -1 hands, and didn't get anywhere close to that in currency. Are you farming specific NMs and triggering them? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


Reasons BST excels at dyna currency farming:
Pets are stronger than players vs lower level mobs (ALOT stronger)
BST has 2x thf type pets (great eva for tanking + treasure hunter 3)
BST is better able to fight multiple mobs while farming solo than other jobs.

You need to proc mobs to get good currency drops. -1 items, forgotten items, and triggers do not have a clear correlation to proc'ing the weakness, however it certainly doesn't hurt, and you want the currency anyway.

Please be aware of proc'ing rules.
You need to get all Time extensions from the zone to increase proc rate. Proc rate is % chance of using as spell, weaponskill or job ability on a mob. the % increase greatly when obtaining each time extension.

/dnc gives the most useful options for bst procing. you have 15 s recast for steps and 20sec recast on group 1 flourishes. this gives you quick ja's for proc'ing.

If you are in COP zones, pay attention to the time of day and which proc's work for the mob. If you are doing beastmen, pay attention to the mob job.

BST can be quickest to find TE mobs and eliminate them w/ limited links. We can avoid aggro by staying sneak/inviz while pet kills te mob. leave pet to get rid of links, watch you cb timer. We also have widescan to quickly find all the TE's (especially good for te5 in CoP zones).

at 95 for farming jsut currency, in cop zone it was typical to get between 140~160 currency. However 180 is not at all unheard of.

If are are farming relic armor, kill beastmen. accessories and -1 armor, kill nightmare mobs.
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#14 Jan 03 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome, thank you!
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#15 Jan 03 2012 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did a test of Aymur occasionally attacks 2~3 times on test server for level 95 aymur.
I was bst/sch and I was almost naked. no double or triple attack gear at all.
Its not a huge test sample, but I think its pretty good.

This is 300% aftermath only:

Triple attack: 21 15%
Double attack: 54 39%
Single Attack: 62 45%

I'm willing to bet the actual rates would come down to 1/2 normal attacks, 1/3 double attacks and 1/6 triple attacks.

if so, then Aymur level 3 aftermath gives and extra 66% attacks during aftermath. I tested this only for master. I would guess it is same for pet, but that will need to be tested w/ a pld pet like raphie or carrie. Maybe lars would work too since he's drk... anyway would want to test w/ pets that don't have any double attack from other sources.

I haven't tested if it affects off-hand attacks or not.

Edit:

I tested offhand and pets.
As expected pet attack rates match bst main and off-hand never does multiattack from aftermath.
As expected the OA2~4x axes would be best to use w/ aymur for tp build.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 11:09pm by Xilk
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