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Conclusive jug testing

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Conclusive jug testingFollow

#202 Dec 27 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good

Sage

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So, if you look at the formula/etc here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Pet_Food

I would bet the:
Min cap is 1600
Start MND (1) is 55
Rate (1) is 1024

I bet the slope changes at 135 MND, which corresponds to 1920 HP healed (Base + 20% fits for the last few pet foods). At that point it would have to drop to about 2.33333 HP per MND in order to hit your next data point, which is consistent with Tier V M values but almost nothing else. I'll probably go test this today after I'm done playing with Kenkonken.

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#203 Dec 27 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good

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Theta:
50 MND : 1600 restored
55 MND : 1600 restored
56 MND : 1604 restored
80 MND : 1700 restored
115 MND : 1840 restored
120 MND : 1860 restored
121 MND : 1863 restored
135 MND : 1905 restored
155 MND : 1965 restored
200 MND : 2100 restored
220 MND : 2160 restored
221 MND : 2162 restored
248 MND : 2216 restored
276 MND : 2272 restored

So it has the constants and equation that I added here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Pet_Food

It's really quite nice.

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#204 Dec 27 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent

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Byrthnoth wrote:

So it has the constants and equation that I added here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Pet_Food

It's really quite nice.

That is a gorgeous looking wiki page, well done sir. :D Nice info.

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#205 Dec 27 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Yeah, Byrth, don't think I haven't noticed you've been making BG wiki the best one out there w/ all the good info here...

Awesome chart and page. All the info is clear, clean and concise.. and thorough. The page is neat, and the references are well documented.
Its a very professional level of crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's. I'm usually too lazy to do that nicely.

However, last I recall, bg wiki has terrible pages for bst pets/jugs information... I'll have to double check. I don't think there is a good template for it.

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#206 Dec 27 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good

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954 posts

Thanks! Haha

Also yeah, I'm not sure we even *have* a template for BST pets or any pet pages. I wanted to make a Nazuna page ages ago (took a picture and all) and eventually gave up because I couldn't figure out how to do it. xD Our template master will get around to that at some point, I assume.

At the moment I'm re-working spells into a new template: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Absorb-AGI
I did some work on the plane back to the US (up through B), but the template has a few minor issues and I want to get a complete M/V value list for spells before I go mass-uploading them.

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#207 Jan 03 2012 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent

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Monster Jackcoat +2 Testing

I was skilling up on EM~T Bluffalo and wanted to try out the "Feral Howl" enhancement that I just got on the main servers. I did 10 samples without the Jackcoat, and 10 samples with it on. The difference is pretty dramatic when you try it for yourself. Here are the durations that I took from my timestamps, all done with 5/5 Feral Howl merits:

Without Monster Jackcoat:

 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        4 
    2                        0 
    3                        4 
    4                        7 
    5                        2 
    6                        0 
    7                        0 
    8                        5 
    9                        5 
    10                       0

With Monster Jackcoat:

 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        10 
    2                        6 
    3                        8 
    4                        15 
    5                        8 
    6                        5 
    7                        1 
    8                        10 
    9                        6 
    10                       11

There are some limitations involved with using timestamp info, but it gives a decent picture of the terrorize duration increase. The samples marked "0" are actually 0.5 seconds, or some amount less than 1 second that I can't check. You've all probably encountered those.

After using it for a while, and looking at these numbers, it seems to approximately double the Feral Howl duration. I'm not sure if the effect scales based on the number of merits you have placed into this skill (and I don't think I'm quite dedicated enough to check, haha).

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#208 Jan 03 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good

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Doubling duration looks about right from those numbers. Also, no merit augment has been discovered that doesn't vary pretty cleanly with merit level.

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#209 Jan 03 2012 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent

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Byrthnoth wrote:

Doubling duration looks about right from those numbers. Also, no merit augment has been discovered that doesn't vary pretty cleanly with merit level.

With Monster Jackcoat and 1/5 Feral Howl merits:

 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        2 
    2                        7 
    3                        6 
    4                        1 
    5                        4 
    6                        6 
    7                        6 
    8                        1 
    9                        3 
    10                       6

Well, the improvement is definitely less pronounced at 1/5 merits - would you say it's a safe bet that +20% Terror duration per merit level is a good guess?

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 9:23pm by Bookmarku

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#210 Jan 03 2012 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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I"d say +20% duration is a fair guess.

I went and repeated the testing for killer effects for helm. for some reason my head was confusing it. (I wasn't realizing that the killer instinct effect did not increase potency. only duration.) Anyway, its all good. Only difference is I had 5x killer effects merits. So paired w/ body and helm its +10% to damage and damage mitigation, which is a nice easy number to use. (11% w/ killer shortbow)

Gausape + monster helm are best combo for Primal Rend.

better than twilight helm + gausape, better than both twilight.

Primal Rend:
Naked 859
gausape + monster helm: 986
twilight helm & mail: 979
gausape + twilight helm: 970

As chr values increase I would expect the twilight gains to decrease while the 10% bonus from gausape + monster helm remains constant.

However i"m not exactly sure when it comes to the CHR used in the fINT portion of the calculation.. Guess I could try in abyssea and w/ higher chr values.. but getting to brew will only make the killer effects combo that much more potent.

Then again.. this probably would not work if you don't have killer effects merits... at least at low chr values.

Oh yeah, w/ Killer instinct, killer effects merits, gausape & monster helm, I was getting +40% in primal rend damage. Which is turning my head on how Killer instinct + Gausape and killer effects + are combining. I don't think we have the whole picture.

nvm, I was comparing to the naked base instead of the base w/ just monster helm. the +7 chr and dex make a difference..

this was vs lizard in terrigan vs lizards, using rabbit pet.

859 naked
897 w/ just helm
919 w/ just gausape

TWilight set instead: 979
gausape + monster helm 970

919 gausape
986 gausape + helm
1135 gausape + killer instinct
1206 gausape + helm + killer instinct

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 11:15pm by Xilk

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 11:18pm by Xilk

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#211 Jan 03 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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I started retesting monster jackcoat for status ailment removal w/ reward.

It wasn't working. Keep in mind, this was not the jackcoat +1/2 just the normal jackcoat.
It didn't remove any status ailments at all. normal beast jackcoat and +1 seem to remove all 6 that /rdm can cast...

Also It wouldn't remove paralyze on carrie from marboling's bad breath in aby-kon even using the +2.

I"m abit puzzled.
I'll compaire the normal, +1, and +2 next time I test.

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#212 Jan 23 2012 at 9:04 PM Rating: Excellent

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I nabbed a friend and did some testing in Brenner to figure out the remainder of the Pet Food info:

Pet Food Gamma: base regen 5/tic
Pet Food Delta: base regen 8/tic

For the Enhances 'Beast Healer' effect on the Monster Gaiters +2, these feet double the potency of each Beast Healer merit. So using pet food alpha (1 HP/tic), with 5/5 Beast Healer (which would increase that to 6 HP/tic regularly), if you wear the enhanced +2 Relic Feet, you end up with 11 HP/tic regen effect.

On the other end of the spectrum, 5/5 Beast Healer with these feet gives Pet Food Theta usage a 30 HP/tic regen. Pretty cool~

Edited, Jan 23rd 2012 11:29pm by Bookmarku

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#213 Jan 23 2012 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent

Xilk

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nice. ty.

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#214 Jan 24 2012 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good

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So fully enhanced Beast Healer adds another 600HP to every Reward (over 3 minutes). Not bad!

If you're in a situation where it matters, then you will probably be riding the timer a little closer than that though and not benefiting from the full Regen effect duration.

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#215 Jan 28 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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I'm getting into my testing mode again on pet performance.

I think I'm going to collect parses of pet performances for each pet vs the adamantoise in Gustav tunnel. I'm pretty sure they have high def.
I want to use some non-abyssea mobs for benchmarking. I want mobs that are levels 95~105, and outside abyssea. I think I'll be making alot of petfood. I figure the boulder eaters there will have lower def also, (usually blm type yes?) anyway I'll play w/ gear and /check command to determin def of the different level mobs I parse against. My primary goal is to get better approximations of attack and def for our pets.

However in preparation, I've been confirming the base + STR for all the level 99 pets (I'm way too lazy to get beast affinity merits to test any of those which don't cap.)

I'll post that table shortly which has the confirmed numbers on them. However, I did notice a few peculiarities recently.

1) Has anyone else seen mp aspir'd from Falcorr?

I think DapperMac, FaithfulFalcorr, CrudeRaphie, & SlipperySilas don't follow exactly the same rules as most pets. These new ones were derived from normally non-charmable mobs. We already know from Dev's announcment that DapperMac has the same storeTP trait as a level 90 Samurai. I suspect Raphie may have some double attack as well, which is not normal for a pld. (I had to stop testing aymur multi-hit rate w/ raphie and use carrie instead because I couldn't tell if he was double attacking or not, when aftermath was not up). Maybe they have support jobs? or more than 1 job... or just borrowed traits.

2) DapperMac and Flowerpot merle have the exact same base damage + FSTR values at level 99.

This actually got me thinking,and it paying more attention to how mnk damage works. I think the mnk pets will give us some insight to pet damage.

the base damage is determined from skill. I figure a good estimate for their skill is the capped skill for their level, no merits or gear. 424 skill for a mnk at level 99. * .11 +3 = 49.64.. floor 49.

their base damage would be 49, CAPPED fSTR would be 73 - 49 = 24 for our mnk pets. IF they have the same weapon (none) then this makes total sense for capped fSTR situation and them having the exact same damage.

3) Julio's tp/hit did change when they decreased his delay. he is 5.9 tp/hit now instead of the 7.4 which it was before.

4) Louise hits alot harder now.

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#216 Jan 28 2012 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent

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Xilk wrote:

2) DapperMac and Flowerpot merle have the exact same base damage + FSTR values at level 99.

This actually got me thinking,and it paying more attention to how mnk damage works. I think the mnk pets will give us some insight to pet damage.

the base damage is determined from skill. I figure a good estimate for their skill is the capped skill for their level, no merits or gear. 424 skill for a mnk at level 99. * .11 +3 = 49.64.. floor 49.

their base damage would be 49, CAPPED fSTR would be 73 - 49 = 24 for our mnk pets. IF they have the same weapon (none) then this makes total sense for capped fSTR situation and them having the exact same damage.

3) Julio's tp/hit did change when they decreased his delay. he is 5.9 tp/hit now instead of the 7.4 which it was before.

4) Louise hits alot harder now.

These are interesting findings - I'm interested to see the info when you've got it ready! :) I've never noticed mp being drained from Falcorr, but I was never really paying attention to that sort of thing with him... easy enough to check!

-

I did some reading on the basics of Guttler as I was making one, and now that it's finished and powered up, I wanted to toss out some findings. I saw in one of the threads on here (the Guttler blog thread) that the choke effect can have some variance based on target (perhaps like the Choke spell itself?). I checked it out at each Guttler phase, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 just to see if the Choke effect strengthened based on level, but it was always the same.

-17 VIT
7 dmg/tic
57~58 second duration, based on timestamps (so essentially 1 min).

As for the Aftermath effect from Onslaught, I've seen a couple of differing figures for the attack boost - I did a quick test in Cape Terrigan to verify. Onslaught Aftermath testing

Before: 525 attack
After: 576 attack

So, essentially, a 10% attack boost. This stuff was probably already known, but I didn't see it clearly laid out anywhere. D: <3 So... there it is, haha.

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#217 Jan 29 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Unfortunately my main pc isn't working so great (posting from wife's laptop atm) so I'm not testing righ now, I'm trying to repair machine so I can ;.;)

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#218 Jan 30 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent

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This was posted by Slycer on BG, translations from a japanese magazine called Dengeki Playstation. The info for the enhanced Monster Armor+2 set is pretty much what we have figured out, but there was one piece that caught my eye:

Killer Instinct: Duration +4s
Feral Howl: Duration +1s
Beast Affinity: Pet Level +1
Beast Healer: Pet Regen +1
Familiar: Duration +10 minutes, Pet Haste +10%

:O

Edit: It's a really quick'n'dirty examination, but it's noticeable.

CrudeRaphie @ 0% Haste
CrudeRaphie w/Familiar

Most of the other enhancement effects that the JP article brought to light seem to be panning out well, so I don't really doubt that it's true. A very nice thing to have, those Monster Trousers+2!

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:19pm by Bookmarku

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#219 Jan 30 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good

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Bookmarku wrote:

Most of the other enhancement effects that the JP article brought to light seem to be panning out well, so I don't really doubt that it's true. A very nice thing to have, those Monster Trousers+2!

Sucks to have to give up -11% pet pdt for it, though.

EDIT: Oh, only during Familiar. Not that big of a loss then, never mind.

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:24pm by yankeestom

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#220 Jan 30 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent

Xilk

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Bookmarku wrote:

Edit: It's a really quick'n'dirty examination, but it's noticeable.

CrudeRaphie @ 0% Haste
CrudeRaphie w/Familiar

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:19pm by Bookmarku

Its BARELY noticeable.... but yeah 10% haste is cool. can take us up to 24% possible pet haste.

their are noticeably more 3sec intervals between attacks on the haste screenshot.

pet haste is gonna be a tricky one to test. There are a few more questions... how long does the haste last? full 40 min? Do trousers need to remain equipped for the duration to keep the haste or only when using familiar?
I don't see anyone keeping trousers on for 40 min.
It is a nice surprise though!

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#221 Jan 30 2012 at 8:13 PM Rating: Excellent

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Xilk wrote:

Its BARELY noticeable.... but yeah 10% haste is cool. can take us up to 24% possible pet haste.

their are noticeably more 3sec intervals between attacks on the haste screenshot.

pet haste is gonna be a tricky one to test. There are a few more questions... how long does the haste last? full 40 min? Do trousers need to remain equipped for the duration to keep the haste or only when using familiar?
I don't see anyone keeping trousers on for 40 min.
It is a nice surprise though!

Yar, you're right, it is barely noticeable, and timestamp methodology is far from perfect for testing haste (maybe one step above 'eyeballing' and one step below counting FRAPS frames?). I did some more examination though and the delay reduction that you get at 14% pet haste and 24% pet haste is much more obvious (going from 3 second gaps with the occasional 4 second gap, to 2 second gaps with the occasional 3 second gap). Using this info, and Atma of the Omnipotent substitution, I found that you don't need to keep the Monster Trousers +2 equipped to receive enhanced Familiar's haste bonus.

Also, using all pet haste available to me (14% from gear, 16% from atma, 10% from enhanced Familiar), I still had a timestamp spread that was essentially identical to a 25% pet haste setup. It wasn't a perfect test by any means, so let's just say it's a fair assumption with some not-completely-terrible evidence pointing to a pet haste cap of 25%.

Edit: Found an older post that uses the timestamp method, and it makes me think that perhaps even more pet haste would need to be available before making the statement that I did in my second paragraph. I just... dont know. XD Someone, please take up the torch!

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 9:36pm by Bookmarku

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#222 Jan 30 2012 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Louise has 4604 hp at level 99. `I used run wild and spammed macros for timestamps. I very consistantly get 1% hp recovered every 6 seconds. I should spread this out over a minute or so to check for variation also. this implies 1/2% per tick or ~23 hp/tic from run wild. I wouldn't really think its 23/tic though.

I'm tired atm, I'll do some other pets when I wake up (before work). If I check a wide spread of max hp's I can see if the hp recovery is % based or a more discreet amount. it really shouldn't be too hard to nail that one down.

I'll post my other pet data after I get parser working again.

AS far as pet haste goes? its a fair bet it's all gear haste and caps at 25% like players. I'm really not sure how to check that. I've recorded a few fights w/ fraps before. It really was not easy to identify common points in the animation to measure frames or differences in attack speed.

really not sure what to do there aside from relying on delay calculations from tp and known haste values.

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 12:24am by Xilk

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#223 Jan 31 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Here is the data I have so far. I don't see Julio's hp anywhere yet, and I haven't double checked it. I also didn't have Fargann available atm. I'll have to make some. The only real new info here is the BaseD + fSTR values for level 99, and the tp adjustments for louise and julio.

 
 
Level 99 Pets	JOB	Min	Max	baseD+STR	tp/hit	HP	Attack	Def	Strong	Weak 
Presto Julio 	WAR	83	93	122     	5.9	4532				 
DiscreetLouise	WAR	76	99	131     	7.4	4604			Darkness	 
BugeyedBroncha	WAR	90	99	130     	5.7	4912				 
FlowerpotMerle	MNK	76	99	73      	4.8	5216				 
GorefangHobs	WAR	93	99	130     	6.4	5218				 
GooeyGerard	WAR	95	99	129     	6.4	4298			Water	 
CrudeRaphie	PLD	96	99	133     	6.4	4212			Lghtng	Earth 
FaithfulFalcorr	THF	86	99	126     	6.2	4968			Fire	 
DipperYuly	THF	76	99	124     	6.2	4092			Wind	 
LuckyLulush	WAR	76	99	128     	6.2	4912				 
DapperMac	MNK	76	99	75      	6.2	5542				 
SlipperySilas	???	23	99	121     	5.4	3388				 
FatsoFargann	WAR	81	99	130        	6.9	4298			Water	 
BloodclawShasra	WAR	90	99	129     	6.4	5218

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 9:52am by Xilk

I was actually in abyssea yesterday when doing the quick hp & run wild test w/ louise. I stacked only STR atma while killing some rabbits. It damage was capping out around 250~300. I think w/ a bit if atma tinkering, we could probably determine STR more precisely by trying to figure when adding STR atma doesn't increase damage anymore. It should give us the fSTR cap. (after seeing the mnk fSTR it feels like that much of pet damage calculation matches players).

Anyway, lots of work and parsing to do.

I Updated the values. These are all confirmed level 99 BaseD + fSTR values.

I should point out because it might not be quickly apparent to those not doing the testing, that thf type pets are actually hitting the highest damage numbers in these capped situations. The reason for this is they have a higher crit damage bonus than war's. Warriors have +8% damage, thf's have +14%. Falcorr can hit up to 603 damage. This is the highest unbuffed damage a pet can hit in a melee/crit hit.

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 11:06pm by Xilk

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 11:53pm by Xilk

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#224 Jan 31 2012 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sweet, nice to see concrete numbers for DMG and TP/hit. And Raphie is strong against Thunder? Interesting. :o

I have the MaxHP data for Presto Julio at its level cap (4532 HP @ level 93). Did you have Beast Affinity merits when using it? Julio has the same Hit Point rank as pets such as BugeyedBroncha and LuckyLulush, so 4912 HP at level 99.

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#225 Jan 31 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Bookmarku wrote:

Sweet, nice to see concrete numbers for DMG and TP/hit. And Raphie is strong against Thunder? Interesting. :o

I have the MaxHP data for Presto Julio at its level cap (4532 HP @ level 93). Did you have Beast Affinity merits when using it? Julio has the same Hit Point rank as pets such as BugeyedBroncha and LuckyLulush, so 4912 HP at level 99.

Ha!

Thanx for the correction! No, I didn't have BA merits. I mixed 2 directions of testing on my check list.

I had Julio on my to do list for TP/hit check. I completely forgot that he was capped at 93. No, I don't have any BA merits. I kept reviewing earlier posts in the thread to check which pets you had level 99 hp for, and I completely didn't think to remove Julio from this list.

I'm interested in some methodology for more testing of elemental resistances for pets. My current plan is to stack only HP+ atma on and send pet at some decently strong NM's in abyssea which are very specific about the element they use. I'd appreciate if anyone can give good suggestions on expanding the NM list. Timed Spawn NM's would be best. I want to record each pet against their moves (w/out protective atma) to compare damage on each pet to the same move from the same NM. Please let me know if you have a better idea.

Fire: Battlerigged Chariot
Lightning: Turul (spikes); Dhorme Khimaira
Wind: Amhuluk; Gamayun
Ice: Chione?
Earth: Koios?
Water: Iku-Turso, Sedna,
Darkness: Maere?
Light:

Otherwise for DD, my next steps are parsing Damage for all pets vs Adamantoise in Gustav tunnel (checking enemey level and def for each fight). Even If I don't get precise values for attack, this should allow a comparison and a way to rank our pets attack relative to each other.
Next I'll see about doing STR tests in abyssea. It would be really nice to have a good mob or NM to test this on. Something w/ consistent level which I can hack on and not kill... ideas are welcome.

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#226 Jan 31 2012 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good

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Cuelebre for earth, I would say. For Darkness, Pil is actually your best bet with Flank Opening. It does entirely consistent damage (accounting for the +50% when his shields are up).

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#227 Jan 31 2012 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent

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I got my hands on a Vermin Earring and here's what I found:

+2% Plantoid Killer (Tested on Highland Treants using Primal Rend @300%, 995 dmg with, 985 dmg without, 1% dmg difference)
-4% Vermin Killer (Tested on Buzzfly with the same method, 1025 dmg with, 1045 dmg without, 2% dmg difference)

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#228 Feb 01 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent

Xilk

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Pygmytoise are a good choice to test on methinks. They are all VT to me at 99. They only have 2 possible levels. I'm not sure on the exact levels though...
The Training page says level 99~103. I assume the boulder eaters start at levle 99. The Pygmytoise are ALL VT, which would make me think they start at 103. If, so then the higher level ones should be level 104. I'm not sure if its normal for training regimes to cover the exact level range of mobs or not.
The higher level ones give me 600 xp solo. the lower level ones give me 500 xp. Any help confirming thier levels would be apprcieated.

600xp pygmytoise have 557 Defense
500xp pygmytoise have 548 Defense

My melee Gear had 578 Attack (no food and I was specifically omitting some of my better tp gear. I'm bst/sch (dispel hardened shell). I was using richardet's +3 DA axe, so 72 base damage. I'll check my exact gear tonight.

So far I only have some numbers on Lulush and Falcorr.

I'm having a bit of trouble w/ Kparser though... The raw data option is grayed out. I'd really like to cut some parts out of the parse which would clean the data up. (there are a few hits before I dispel hardened shell, and I cannot completely filter out other groups kills of boulder eaters.)

Its nice that I can solo down VT's consistently and usually I don't need any pet food. I am resting between fights though, so no chain kills.

Until I can clean up my data, the best I can say for now is average melee & crit hits:

Xilk 66.02 127.52
Lulush 97.15 192.16

I have to clean the falcor data up a bit... had some boulder eater kills in there... but the numbers were close to lulush. I expect higher attack on lulush than falcorr.

Edited, Feb 1st 2012 9:45am by Xilk

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#229 Feb 01 2012 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good

Xilk

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I have to correct myself about DapperMac and Flowerpot Merle having the dame BaseD + fSTR.
merle is 73
mac is 75
However, I think the rest of my investigation is still a viable theory to test/confirm.

The +2 difference in fSTR could be due to a difference in weapon rank for the mnk's.
Mac's weapon rank is just a bit higher, allowing a higher cap for fSTR.
If the current estimate for fSTR cap holds true for pets, then it means weapon rank + 8. This would imply a weapon rank of 16 for Merle, and 18 for Mac.

This kind of weapon rank is MUCH higher than players for h2h. It would mean a damage +141 weapon if it matched player mechanics. This is far outside the range of what h2h weapons are at.

Which begs the question: What data do we really need for pet dd? Kegsay was running into this w/ smn testing at 75 also.

I think we just need STR, attack, delay, and other job traits which we've already identified (crit damage bonus, TA, DA, etc...)
We have delay also.
I think we need a new model for pet damage which puts things in simplified terms if possible. STR, Vit, Attack, DEF. There is no weapon damage, there is no weapon rank, etc.

I think brenner is probably the best tool for the mathy testing. pet vs blu/pld w/ super high def and known vit values. parse the pet dd values. We have the upper cap for baseD + fSTR. This makes me wish I 2-boxed. Its hard to get ppl to commit to hours of testing w/ a parser :P.

I'll just need a large aggregate of data vs pygmytoise for some basic bench-marking. its a bandaid to comparing pet dd, not a solution.

Edited, Feb 1st 2012 1:09pm by Xilk

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#230 Feb 02 2012 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good

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Did you add +1 Killer and test again? +/- 3 Killer would give the same effect that you showed, right?

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#231 Feb 02 2012 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent

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Byrthnoth wrote:

Did you add +1 Killer and test again? +/- 3 Killer would give the same effect that you showed, right?

Oh right, mah bad. I did the test again by adding a Killer Effect merit, and you're right, it's +/- 3.

Vermin Earring testing:
1121 without, 1142 with Earring+Killer Effect Merit x 1 (2% damage increase, therefore it is a +3 Plantoid Killer effect on the Earring)
1205 without, 1193 with Earring+Killer Effect Merit x 1 (1% damage decrease, since -3 Vermin Killer gets the Killer Effect merit added to it, it effectively became a -2 effect)

Edit: Just noticed that Rya parsed the Arcana Earring a while ago, and the effect looked like 3% back then, too. Well played!

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 9:36am by Bookmarku

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#232 Feb 02 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good

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Well, that is cool!

So now we have a sample of a level 50 earring (Arcana) and level 55 earring (Vermin) both likely being +/- 3 Killer. I have no idea why they split two of them to a higher like that, but they are likely all the same. If there are no objections, I will add them all to the wiki later today.

Also, this is pretty important:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103222-Dev-Tracker-%283-8-2011%29?p=5029084&viewfull=1#post5029084

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 10:29am by Byrthnoth

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#233 Feb 02 2012 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good

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Byrthnoth wrote:

Also, this is pretty important:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103222-Dev-Tracker-%283-8-2011%29?p=5029084&viewfull=1#post5029084

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 10:29am by Byrthnoth

RAGE. Every time we get something good (see 100% pet -pdt) they take it away. Why don't they just remove the job entirely if they don't want us to play it?

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#234 Feb 02 2012 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent

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I noticed someone in the FFXIAH BST forums questioning whether or not Falcorr had TH3 (I don't recall seeing proof anywhere, just inference based on his THF-based nature) but a really easy way to check is using the Voidwatch system which gives you a message at the battle's completion regarding what % treasure hunter was applied to your lights. I went as BST to the Mimic King fight in Ro'Maeve, and in the absence of other TH forms (no THF or RNG or other BSTs) I tested with FaithfulFalcorr and we received a 3% TH bonus. I can dig up the screenshot in a sec.

Edit: Found it, FaithfulFalcorr Treasure Hunter 3.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 12:36pm by Bookmarku

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#235 Feb 02 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good

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thats a really disappointing announcment. They are limiting pet th to level 1. They also mention the possibility of Pet: treasure hunter + gear.
As an overview they want thief to be top for th, then ranger, then /thf then anything else.
They will probably relieve the ingredient cost for faithful falcorr as a result of this.

Its interesting the other information in the post. The official translation will help alleviate some concerns. They did a fair amount of discussion of the other balance options they considered, such as keeping the th3 but reducing the combat effectiveness of the jug (frankly if it were a new jug, I wouldn't mind this, but I think yuly and falcorr both have combat niche's which I wouldnt' want to disturb). i wouldn't mind having a frog pet have th3. its really weak, but if I can put th3 on then drop the pet for big fights, I wouldnt' mind.

In the name of balance they also considered adjusting the drop tables.. which they thought would be too vast of a change for balance.

They know this one won't be popular. I don't like it. I like th3. There is very noticeable difference between th1, 2 & 3. after that I don't really notice the difference, but I'm not thf

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#236 Feb 02 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent

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Funny how the people that are crappy at their jobs are the loudest advocates of this move by SE. Complaining about BST dominating Dynamis etc. It feels like we have been relegated again to a second class citizen. BST was very popular for a while there...

To all those who are in favor of this move: learn to not suck at your jobs. As a BST the MOST I can hold in Dynamis is 2 mobs. It is not efficient for me to do so unless I proc one first. If you see a BST holding 5 or 6, the take the one with the highest HP. Ad nauseum. Don't whine about how BST is dominating all the camps.

I have been in Dynamis as 99 THF DNC BST BLU solo and BST is still the most fun to play to me. It is also the lowest risk of death, and has a gil cost associated to it, which the others don't necessarily have.

For once we have a niche again and it is taken away from us. *sigh*

On a side note when is this "Tanaka-esque game-balancing update" supposed to happen?

#237 Feb 02 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good

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Ubinator wrote:

Funny how the people that are crappy at their jobs are the loudest advocates of this move by SE. Complaining about BST dominating Dynamis etc. It feels like we have been relegated again to a second class citizen. BST was very popular for a while there...

To all those who are in favor of this move: learn to not suck at your jobs.

It really has nothing to do with sucking or not sucking. BST is simply the scapegoat for the congestion felt in the most efficient farming spots at the moment. If this knocks down the efficiency of BST solo farming in Dynamis, the same congestion will likely continue, just with some other job combo. And when that happens, people will be complaining about that particular job combination causing the congestion. But the root cause of congestion isn't the balance between different jobs. It's simply because a very popular activity revolves around a limited resource (the number of JA centric camps in dynamis zones).

If everyone "stopped sucking" all of a sudden, it wouldn't reduce the number of people farming in Dynamis or increase the number of spots that are considered the most efficient spots. It would probably result in the situation feeling more congested then before (mobs dying faster would mean shorter fights, making respawn times feel that much worse).

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#238 Feb 04 2012 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent

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For the longest time, ChopsueyChucky and AmigoSabotender have been listed as having level caps of 85 on the wiki. I didn't recall seeing any testing done on this, so I went and checked it out.

I level sync'd to my other account's 76 BST in Abyssea and checked the max HP for ChopsueyChucky and AmigoSabotender (they both have the same HP modifier and the same MaxHP value: 3182). I have no Beast Affinity merits, so I re-entered Abyssea Mis Coast a short time later to repeat the test, uncapped, and found that Healing Salve I restored 1591 on both pets again (aka, 3182 MaxHP).

They're both level 75 cap pets (I highly doubt any of those old generation pets can exceed level 75 without Beast Affinity's assistance, now that we have confirmation on Carrie, Chopsuey and Amigo).

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#239 Feb 10 2012 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent

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svlyons wrote:

If everyone "stopped sucking" all of a sudden, it wouldn't reduce the number of people farming in Dynamis or increase the number of spots that are considered the most efficient spots. It would probably result in the situation feeling more congested then before (mobs dying faster would mean shorter fights, making respawn times feel that much worse).

Yeah what they need to do to improve congestion is equalize the proc rates for magic and WS. Then more camps and more jobs will be viable. Seems pretty braindead simple to me.

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#240 Feb 14 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent

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Bookmarku wrote:

I did some reading on the basics of Guttler as I was making one, and now that it's finished and powered up, I wanted to toss out some findings. I saw in one of the threads on here (the Guttler blog thread) that the choke effect can have some variance based on target (perhaps like the Choke spell itself?). I checked it out at each Guttler phase, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 just to see if the Choke effect strengthened based on level, but it was always the same.

-17 VIT
7 dmg/tic
57~58 second duration, based on timestamps (so essentially 1 min).

As for the Aftermath effect from Onslaught, I've seen a couple of differing figures for the attack boost - I did a quick test in Cape Terrigan to verify. Onslaught Aftermath testing

Before: 525 attack
After: 576 attack

So, essentially, a 10% attack boost. This stuff was probably already known, but I didn't see it clearly laid out anywhere. D: <3 So... there it is, haha.

I'm more interested in the enemy acc- from the WS. The damage seems really sub par compared to ruinator, so I doubt I will be using it, but if it essentially gives spiral spin with any pet, it might be useful.

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#241 Feb 20 2012 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent

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Xilk wrote:

I'll post that table shortly which has the confirmed numbers on them. However, I did notice a few peculiarities recently.

1) Has anyone else seen mp aspir'd from Falcorr?

I think DapperMac, FaithfulFalcorr, CrudeRaphie, & SlipperySilas don't follow exactly the same rules as most pets. These new ones were derived from normally non-charmable mobs. We already know from Dev's announcment that DapperMac has the same storeTP trait as a level 90 Samurai. I suspect Raphie may have some double attack as well, which is not normal for a pld. (I had to stop testing aymur multi-hit rate w/ raphie and use carrie instead because I couldn't tell if he was double attacking or not, when aftermath was not up). Maybe they have support jobs? or more than 1 job... or just borrowed traits.

Just had this happen in Dynamis - Qufim. o _o

Edit: My guess, without even being able to check at the moment, is that it's related to the effects of Familiar. Gonna test some more...

Edit2: Went into Grauberg[A] and fought Sensenmann (the BLM skeletons) and they aspired 16 MP away... I used the <petmpp> command and it reported that Falcorr was at 54% of Max MP... So he's got a little bit of MP comin' from somewhere. o _o This is with no atmas on.

I'm not sure if it varies with level, but level 99 Falcorr definitely has 35 MP. Got Aspired for 11 MP and his <petmpp> was 68%. Where is this MP coming from? Gonna try some more pets.

Edit3: SlipperySilas was aspired for 104 MP and still had 95% of its MP remaining... so, he has at least 2000 MP, ya? Nutty. Might be a SMN type job with those MP Boost traits, haha.

Edited, Feb 20th 2012 5:58pm by Bookmarku

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#242 Feb 20 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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Wow, 2k mp on silas... makes you wish you could use it for something... like an aspir battery...

I saw some ppl on ffxiah saying silas was counted as an aquan as well. wierd, but maybe useful if you want the killer instinct effect and not carrie....

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#243 Feb 20 2012 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent

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Maybe Falcorr put a couple of merits into MP.

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#244 Mar 02 2012 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent

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yankeestom wrote:

Maybe Falcorr put a couple of merits into MP.

Haha, awesome. XD

-

Test server update, March 2nd 2012:

The NPCs below now sell the following items:
- Wormy Broth: Macchi Gazlitah (Ru'Lude Gardens, H-9)

I checked it out and Macchi sells Wormy Broth for 100 gil each - pretty appropriate for a mascot pet...

Went and checked to see if they reduced the level cap on it, but it's still level 99 (healing salved for 1694 HP, so 3388 max HP).

Edited, Mar 4th 2012 3:57pm by Bookmarku

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#245 Apr 29 2012 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent

Xilk

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just an FYI.
I went to double check level 99 falcorr after they changed him. As expected, the STR didn't change at all when the said they increased his dd. I'm pretty sure they probably only upped the attack itself a bit. but there's no way to know so far.

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#246 Apr 30 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent

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After I saw Falkirk link to Motenten's bst dps spreadsheet I tinkered around w/ it a bit.
I learned I really need to update my sets a bit :D. However, I did something interesting w/ it.

I sent falcorr at the boulder eaters in gustav tunnel. First I did so w/ no pet + gear on. (I wore reward gear and dropped a few stacks of thetas). The only Ready move I used was backheel. I tried to use it about as often as falcorr had tp, but really I used it anywhere between 100 and 250 tp. I think it balanced out alright. it wouldn't be hard to remove from the final calculations though.

Parse Summary: No Pet+ gear:

 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg 
FaithfulFalcorr       54005          0     54005   87.04 %     457/54   89.43 %   95.50 %    48/158   111.20   111.20 
 
Melee Crit Damage 
Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit% 
FaithfulFalcorr          21   190/315    262.86    4.60 % 
 
Ability Damage 
Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg 
FaithfulFalcorr              8039          0      8039    12.96 %      22/2    91.67 %     183/619   365.41 
 - Back Heel                 8039          0      8039   100.00 %      22/2    91.67 %     183/619   365.41 
 
Player           Total time fighting   Total fight lengths   Avg Time/Fight   % Fights' Time   % Overall Time 
FaithfulFalcorr                37:17                 47:58         223.74 s          77.73 %          65.94 % 
 
Damage Per Second 
 
Player              Melee DPS   Ranged DPS     WS DPS    Magic DPS    Other DPS    Total DPS 
FaithfulFalcorr         28.89         0.00       0.00         0.00         4.25        33.13

Next, I sent Falcorr w/ most my pet+ gear on:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/258066

Pet:
Attack: +37
Haste: +24 (I used familiar)
Acc: +16
DA: +4
Crit: +2
Subtle Blow: +6

Pet Parse Summary, Pet+ Gear:

 
Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg   Absorbed Dmg 
FaithfulFalcorr          88775   100.00 %       78613           0       10162           0           0          0              0 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg 
FaithfulFalcorr       78613          0     78613   88.55 %     568/39   93.57 %   96.71 %    55/171   125.07   125.07 
 
Melee Crit Damage 
Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit% 
FaithfulFalcorr          52   172/326    270.69    9.15 % 
 
Ability Damage 
Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg 
FaithfulFalcorr             10162          0     10162    11.45 %      25/0   100.00 %      96/719   406.48 
 - Back Heel                10162          0     10162   100.00 %      25/0   100.00 %      96/719   406.48 
 
Player Participation (Offensive) 
 
Player           Number of fights   % Participation 
FaithfulFalcorr                 9           81.82 % 
 
 
Player           Total time fighting   Total fight lengths   Avg Time/Fight   % Fights' Time   % Overall Time 
FaithfulFalcorr                28:16                 28:15         188.48 s         100.05 %         100.05 % 
 
 
Damage Per Second 
Player              Melee DPS   Ranged DPS     WS DPS    Magic DPS    Other DPS    Total DPS 
FaithfulFalcorr         46.34         0.00       0.00         0.00         5.99        52.33

The main point this shows is vs slightly higher level mobs (100~103) Falcorr's dps goes from 33.13 to 52.33 between a pet+ tp set and an entirely player focused tp set. I can figure the level and def of the mobs I'm fighting... but in order to make a fair comparison to using the dps spreadsheet... I don't know wha to do for the the vit, agi, and eva. Acc was capped for pet in this case. w/ and w/out the pet acc+ gear.

Edited, Apr 30th 2012 8:39am by Xilk

I did the same test w/ Hobs.
He needs alot more petfood to keep him alive but does alot more damage also.

non buffed: 54.67
buffed (no acc gear or familiar): 74.89

Edited, Apr 30th 2012 4:26pm by Xilk

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#247 May 01 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent

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is there a consensus as far as best DD pet? it seems like falcor is obvious TH and evasion pet, but is there a pure DD pet? it seems like base dmg+str seems to be pretty equal among pets, do the tp moves set them apart or are bst's still carrying around 4 or 5 different jugs in hopes of getting some intimidation procs?

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#248 May 01 2012 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent

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Hobs. Maybe if you get into a party you can use a pet for killer instinct, but you'll never get to bring BST to anything. Solo you'll either be using a tanking pet, or hobs for all out damage. Hobs is the best DD pet, hands down.

Edited, May 1st 2012 10:46pm by louispv

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Maybe if we wait long enough, he'll tell us about how he walked barefoot uphill through snow both ways in Uleregand and defeated the evil Snoll Tzar with nothing but a stack of pebbles. Men were men back then. Mithra were men, too, but they don't talk about that.

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#249 May 02 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good

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I'm pretty sure hobs will be the best single target dd.
There is no consensus. I don't think anyone else is even posting pet dd measurements.

I'm not sure how to gather vit, eva, or agi values from target mobs. that would be helpful for benchmarking.

There are a few situations where I'll say falcorr and lulush will out DD hobs.
Mainly its when in abyssea for falcor, because you have a great dd boost for crit hits from falcor, and they way the atma stack up, fantod can get some very nice spike damage.

also, for AoE lulush's whirl claws are really great for lower level stuff. you can do 1.2k AoE which can be very effective.

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#250 May 02 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent

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im not sure how to do agi. vit i think you could figure it out with a consistent ws likes sam's y/g/k. that have consistent str/att values. if you can cap att on a ws then pdif will be capped and i think the only thing in the equation that will be unknown would be vit. i think thats the easiest way. you could also use ruinator since its consistent but multiple hits and stuff add extra problems id think. once you get vit, you can figure def. as far as eva, check a mob and change gear acc. as soon as a mob changes to low evasion, you have 10 more acc than mob evasion. for agi, bst is great for testing i think still with a charm set up. hit a mob and measure tp mob gets by charming and then pettp. 1-(your agi-mob agi+25)/200 is a multiplier you apply to tp you give mob from hitting it. its (your tp gain+3)*the mulplier should give you tp gained.since the only thing unknown is mob agi, you can figure it out with that. so hit a mob for a bit and see how much tp it has. thats without getting hit. if you cant avoid the mob hitting you, then let the mob hit you, charm it, and see how much tp it has for how many hits it does. that will give its base tp gain from hitting you. subtract that from total tp after you charm and you have the tp gained from you hitting it. i probably wouldnt dual wield or have any subtle blow since that would just add more complications. this is all based on equations from bg wiki.

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#251 May 02 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good

Xilk

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def is actually easier. you can just use the check command w/ varying amounts of attack. I've done that alot.

I didn't know the values for eva check though. thank you
And thats a great way to check Agi also

Vit will be the most challenging then.

Motenten used a few benchmarks in his dps spreadsheets:

dynamis dc
fodder
pil
bukhis
qilin

fodder and dynamis dc are easy enough, but the other 3 are pretty difficult to gather parses on.

Any ideas for good benchmark mobs?

Edited, May 2nd 2012 6:35pm by Xilk

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