Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Conclusive jug testingFollow

#77 May 07 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Here is the link for my worksheet.

This has a list of all the samples Bookmarku & blowfin have published. As well as a list of projected hp tiers and tp tiers for different level lulush's.

We could also use level sync to get a luluch at lower levels for comparison, but I'm really not sure if that would be necessary yet.

I think its very interesting that the level 88 tp tiers use 16.5 tp intervals at the bottom. makes me wish I could see wht they are below 100% tp, because it seems to me it would continue if you could perform it at lower tp levels.

edit:
nice! you are quick w/ the new data.
I'm not as surprised that the level 89 data has the same tp tiers. We did see the difference in the level 90 data from you level 90 test. I'm thinking the 16.75 is used again in the level 89 formula which is why we may not see it in tp tiers, when we can clearly see it in hp tiers. the 17 in level 90 would make the difference much more clear.

I wrote up a projection for using Sanguine Scythe w/ a level 90 lulush as well.

Edited, May 7th 2011 6:18am by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#78 May 07 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
269 posts
Here's the data for level 90 LuckyLulush when using Wild Carrot:
305 HP @100% TP 
305 HP @104% TP 
--------------- Tier 1, 5% TP span 
322 HP @105% TP 
322 HP @120% TP 
--------------- Tier 2, 16% Tp span 
339 HP @121% TP 
339 HP @138% TP 
--------------- Tier 3, 18% TP span 
356 HP @139% TP 
356 HP @140% TP 
356 HP @154% TP 
--------------- Tier 4, 16% TP span 
373 HP @155% TP 
373 HP @164% TP 
--------------- Tier 5, 10% TP span 
390 HP @165% TP 
390 HP @174% TP 
--------------- Tier 6, 10% TP span 
407 HP @175% TP 
407 HP @184% TP 
--------------- Tier 7, 10% TP span 
424 HP @185% TP 
424 HP @194% TP 
--------------- Tier 8, 10% TP span 
441 HP @195% TP 
441 HP @204% TP 
--------------- Tier 9, 10% TP span 
458 HP @205% TP 
458 HP @214% TP 
--------------- Tier 10, 10% TP span 
475 HP @215% TP 
475 HP @224% TP 
--------------- Tier 11, 10% TP span 
492 HP @225% TP 
492 HP @234% TP 
--------------- Tier 12, 10% TP span 
509 HP @235% TP 
509 HP @244% TP 
--------------- Tier 13, 10% Tp span 
526 HP @245% TP 
526 HP @249% TP 
526 HP @251% TP 
526 HP @254% TP 
--------------- Tier 14, 10% TP span 
543 HP @255% TP 
543 HP @300% TP 
--------------- Tier 15 (Final), 45% TP span

There were a couple percentages early on that shifted compared to their level 88 and 89 counterparts, so there's an 18% TP span tier in this series. Looking back on my older tests, I must've messed up a couple samples, but now all TP values from 100~300% should be accounted for.

I also ran a test on a level 88 LL using Familiar+Sanguine Scythe+Zenith to see if tiers thresholds were affected:
448 HP @100% TP 
448 HP @104% TP 
473 HP @105% TP 
 
772 HP @254% TP 
797 HP @255% TP 
797 HP @300% TP


Edited, May 7th 2011 11:55am by Bookmarku
____________________________
Falkirk - Quetzalcoatl
99BST
#79 May 07 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
thank you for all the testing.
I'll keep working w/ the tp tiers. I'm still rather stumped though.

you also showed that the hp+ bonues from atma and familiar do not add up to each other, the multiply for a greater effect.
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#80 Jun 01 2011 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
269 posts
Not pet-related but...

Here's some Cloudsplitter info that I believe shows the Fencer bonus is 30 TP.

Fought Elder Goobbues on Lightsday/Darksday/Firesday in the Boyahda Tree (no weather present for the three hours I was there) as 90 BST/DNC. Equipped 85 Farsha with Pallas's Shield for the Fencer testing and then off-handed a OA2~4 axe for the dual wield portion.

Cloudsplitter Equipment Stats:

90 Beastmaster/45 Dancer

STR 86+49
DEX 81-8
VIT 83
AGI 70
INT 68
MND 71+32
CHR 81+8

MAB+5

Cloudsplitter, w/Fencer:
 TP      DMG 
100%     834 
101%     836 
102%     838 
103%     841 
105%     845 
106%     847 
107%     850 
109%     856 
115%     869 
118%     878 
122%     888 
129%     905 
141%     933 
143%     937 
149%     951 
150%     955 
153%     961 
164%     989 
173%    1007 
174%    1011 
182%    1026 
191%    1045 
199%    1059 
202%    1065 
205%    1071 
207%    1075 
212%    1084 
235%    1128 
249%    1155 
254%    1165 
267%    1190 
270%    1196 
275%    1196 
286%    1196 
300%    1196

Cloudsplitter while Dual Wielding:
 TP      DMG 
100%     760 
101%     766 
103%     770 
104%     772 
106%     775 
108%     781 
109%     782 
110%     787 
112%     792 
124%     820 
135%     845 
147%     876 
151%     884 
162%     911 
168%     926 
172%     937 
192%     983 
200%    1002 
214%    1030 
222%    1045 
240%    1081 
268%    1135 
271%    1140 
281%    1158 
284%    1165 
290%    1177 
292%    1181 
297%    1190 
300%    1196


The Cloudsplitter damage caps around 270% in the Fencer tests and also the 267% TP equates in damage to the 297% TP WS from the non-Fencer tests, which points to Fencer being a TP bonus of 30.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 8:27pm by Bookmarku
____________________________
Falkirk - Quetzalcoatl
99BST
#81 Jun 02 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
2,102 posts
This is a good test. The testing done on warrior at level 76 showed a 40 TP bonus (from wiki talk page). We already knew there were different tiers however. This tells us what the level of a 90 bst is.

Also, its a good thing to remember, that our pets have a bonus from fencer....Actually this make me think abit..

Our pets are mostly war, and they have fencer. I confirmed this in their crit hit rates from my earlier testing.

I did not consider tp bonus from fencer when trying to get a formula for wild carrot. Carrie doesn't have fencer though, so the bubble curtain tp tests are right on. This is probably why wild carrot is capping at 255% tp, and 100% tp seems to be in the middle of a tier.

Yes, BG wiki has a little more info on fencer. level 90 war testing shows 45 tp bonus which is exactly what we have seen w/ wild carrot... Actually this could also explain differences from level 88 or 89 lulush and level 90 if the last tier of fencer is right on level 90.

The tiers for fencer are not clearly determined yet. Probably because people are already high level and level so quickly. BG lists 3 tiers, but this test indicates that there are 4. It also seems a much larger gap in BG wiki between what is listed as tier 1 and teir 2. I would say they completely skipped tier 2 and there are actually 4 tiers, and bst has tier 2 by 90, war has tier 4 by 90.


Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 4:59am by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#82 Jun 06 2011 at 5:07 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
I've been running my parser while killing a bunch of luison in la theine for axe trial.

I can definitely say that our intimidation rate has gone up since that update. w/ 5/5 merits for killer effects, I was getting 15% average intimidation. Now I'm always at 20%.

More pertinant to this thread is that I recorded merle having a 15% counter rate. Wiki lists Mnk getting counter II at level 80, but it also lists 13% as the base counter rate. I don't know where that testing is. I can confirm Merle has the 2nd tier as expected by a mnk of this level.

Interestingly, I only see 5% double attack from Shasra (and I am usually wearing ferine necklace)
I see 13% from louise and its really hard to tell w/ merle because of h2h and kick attacks. I don't know mnk calculations very well.

as far as DPS goes, Shasra is much higher than louise or merle.
I was usuing: stronghold, Razed ruins, and Gnarled Horn for atma. (yes I did consider the 10% counter from atma for testing, actual rate including atma was 25% counter rate). w/ this atma Louise was showing 83% crit rate while shasra was~75 and merle around 70 which matches earlier findings about crit rate.

____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#83 Jun 06 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
**
983 posts
Is your increase in Killer proc rate reflected by the increase in damage from Ferine Body +2?

I'm going to try to test these Atma soon using Ferine Body +2 and /BLM, so it'd be good if I can be sure of the base:
Lizard Killer: Atma of the Impenetrable
Arcana Killer: Atma of the Hybrid Beast
Dragon Killer: Atma of the Dragon Rider
Beast Killer: Atma of the Beast King

I figure I'll go with Merciless Matriarch and Ultimate, Ascetic's Tonic, then have my mule pull a monster. One nuke for baseline (or until one goes unresisted), Conflux and add an appropriate Atma, ES -> Another nuke.

Another interesting piece that's maybe worth testing the potency on is Melaco Mittens. I'll probably try to test that and Fowling Earring at the same time, assuming I can ever catch a Melaco on AH.


Completely random, but what merits did you pick?

Edit: Thought you might be interested in this -
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Armada_Sollerets
Keep in mind that the upper limits on those stats may only be available on the HQ Armor (Armada vs. Adaman). Currently the testing community on BG seems to believe that all the possible high frequency stats get a cap increase of +1 on HQ base Armors. For more information on how it works, click to the Tatters and Scrap Synergy page and it should answer all your questions.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 1:46pm by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#84 Jun 06 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
Is your increase in Killer proc rate reflected by the increase in damage from Ferine Body +2?

I'm going to try to test these Atma soon using Ferine Body +2 and /BLM, so it'd be good if I can be sure of the base:
Lizard Killer: Atma of the Impenetrable
Arcana Killer: Atma of the Hybrid Beast
Dragon Killer: Atma of the Dragon Rider
Beast Killer: Atma of the Beast King

I figure I'll go with Merciless Matriarch and Ultimate, Ascetic's Tonic, then have my mule pull a monster. One nuke for baseline (or until one goes unresisted), Conflux and add an appropriate Atma, ES -> Another nuke.

Another interesting piece that's maybe worth testing the potency on is Melaco Mittens. I'll probably try to test that and Fowling Earring at the same time, assuming I can ever catch a Melaco on AH.

Completely random, but what merits did you pick?



Edited, Jun 6th 2011 1:46pm by Byrthnoth


The base is 5% w/ the +2 w/out merits. I have 5/5 killer effects merits.
I do not believe Gausape effects killer effects proc rate, but I have not tested that specifically.

BST cannot equip fowling earring. Since the notice about killer effects in the May update I think it would be good to test all the new killer effects gear also. glad the mitts can actually be sold on AH nice upgrade from the darksteel mitts, and bird killer is an interested bonus.
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#85 Jun 07 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
**
983 posts
Err, what I meant was this!

As a general rule, it seems like Ferine Gausape +2 gives a damage boost equal to Intimidation Rate/2. So:
1 Merit = +1% Intimidation Rate = +.05% Damage.
Gear = ~2% intimidation rate = +1% damage.
10% base intimidation rate = +5% damage base pre-merits.

If your intimidation rate actually increased, we'd expect to see it reflected in an increased damage boost from Ferine Gausape +2. 20% intimidation rate should give you a 10% damage boost. It would be easy to test using either a magical weaponskill like Primal Rend or /BLM ES magic, right?

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:24pm by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#86 Jun 07 2011 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
Err, what I meant was this!

As a general rule, it seems like Ferine Gausape +2 gives a damage boost equal to Intimidation Rate/2. So:
1 Merit = +1% Intimidation Rate = +.05% Damage.
Gear = ~2% intimidation rate = +1% damage.
10% base intimidation rate = +5% damage base pre-merits.

If your intimidation rate actually increased, we'd expect to see it reflected in an increased damage boost from Ferine Gausape +2. 20% intimidation rate should give you a 10% damage boost. It would be easy to test using either a magical weaponskill like Primal Rend or /BLM ES magic, right?

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:24pm by Byrthnoth


Hmm, I'm not sure if proc rate directly relates to pdt/damage+... at least I'm not sure the exact ratio.

Already tested and confirmed in another thread. So, yes, your proposed test for atma would be very indicative.

There are just few gear pieces that are optimal for this. This is why I keep killer shortbow on all the time, 'cept when I reward or call beast. It gives me 1% damage boost to pretty much anything and status resists. I have 8% damage boost from gausape, merits and killer shortbow.

tatami shield is another 1%
Beast trousers is 1% but doesn't seem to kick in until you have at least 3% boost from other equipment sources.
tamer's ring is 2%
Suzaku's scythe is 3%, birds only
panther mask is 1%, lizards only

I havne't tested pants or mask since the may update though, they may have changed.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:54pm by Xilk

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:56pm by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#87 Jun 07 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
**
983 posts
Do you know that Killer merits give +.5% damage by analyzing after single merits, or by looking at a larger trend?

I ask, because some things (like Fast Cast's effect on recast time) is only applied in whole % point increments. So if you have 27% Fast Cast, you get -13% recast time instead of -13.5%. It's two floor steps, basically.

If damage boosts from Ferine Gausape worked the same way, it could explain some of your odd results (like Beast Trousers only giving a killer boost after an arbitrary added amount, 3%). If I went through and tested all the "Killer" items with and without 1 Killer Effects merit, then I could determine the exact +Intimidation rate boost anyway though.

Based off your testing (15% -> 20%), I would guess that SE just boosted killer trait base from 10% to 15%.

I'll probably do as much of this testing as I can tonight when I get home, but feel free to preempt me!

Things to Test:
1) Baseline, no Killer merits or Atma or Gear, just go nuke something with and without Ferine Gausape +2 on.
2) Go put 1 Killer merit in and repeat the baseline to see if anything has changed.
2a) If it has, put one more Killer merit on and repeat the baseline to see if it changes again.
3) Use an appropriate pet and see if Killer Instinct grants any benefit if you already have the Killer trait. <-- just personal interest.
3a) If it does, repeat test 3 with AF3+2 hat on to see if it matters.
4) If 1 = 2 (no change), then I'll need to re-test some of the gear in the long run, once with an odd number of Killer Merits and once with an even number.
5) Test Atma the same way as 4.
6) Eeehhhhh... I should probably verify that all the Killer traits are the same potency, but I'm willing to use parsimony to assume they are.

This doesn't have a whole lot to do with jug pet testing, so I might move it to BG's Random Testing Thread and bgwiki when I do the tests.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 1:41pm by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#88 Jun 07 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
Do you know that Killer merits give +.5% damage by analyzing after single merits, or by looking at a larger trend?

I ask, because some things (like Fast Cast's effect on recast time) is only applied in whole % point increments. So if you have 27% Fast Cast, you get -13% recast time instead of -13.5%. It's two floor steps, basically.

If damage boosts from Ferine Gausape worked the same way, it could explain some of your odd results (like Beast Trousers only giving a killer boost after an arbitrary added amount, 3%). If I went through and tested all the "Killer" items with and without 1 Killer Effects merit, then I could determine the exact +Intimidation rate boost anyway though.

Based off your testing (15% -> 20%), I would guess that SE just boosted killer trait base from 10% to 15%.

I'll probably do as much of this testing as I can tonight when I get home, but feel free to preempt me!

Things to Test:
1) Baseline, no Killer merits or Atma or Gear, just go nuke something with and without Ferine Gausape +2 on.
2) Go put 1 Killer merit in and repeat the baseline to see if anything has changed.
2a) If it has, put one more Killer merit on and repeat the baseline to see if it changes again.
3) Use an appropriate pet and see if Killer Instinct grants any benefit if you already have the Killer trait. <-- just personal interest.
3a) If it does, repeat test 3 with AF3+2 hat on to see if it matters.
4) If 1 = 2 (no change), then I'll need to re-test some of the gear in the long run, once with an odd number of Killer Merits and once with an even number.
5) Test Atma the same way as 4.
6) Eeehhhhh... I should probably verify that all the Killer traits are the same potency, but I'm willing to use parsimony to assume they are.

This doesn't have a whole lot to do with jug pet testing, so I might move it to BG's Random Testing Thread and bgwiki when I do the tests.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 1:41pm by Byrthnoth


read the other thread. Also ready this thread on ffxiah.

The base is well established. 5% damage boost w/ no merits or other gear, just the gausape +2. it was 2% w/ the gausape +1.

More thorough testing can be done, but its clear to see an improvement w/ both gear and merits, and its clear how much.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 1:47pm by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#89 Jun 07 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
**
983 posts
Sorry, for some reason I thought you established the base before the last patch, as per your last post in that FFXIAH thread.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#90 Jun 07 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
Sorry, for some reason I thought you established the base before the last patch, as per your last post in that FFXIAH thread.


Oh! yeah, I wasn't clear on that. I did both.

established base before, and tested after. it did not change. so that indicates that it probably doesn't work how you say.. unless the adjustment didn't adjust the base, but only how much the merits improve killer effects.
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#91 Jun 07 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
123 posts
So what is the best and most affordable jug? Back when I played, it was Courrier Carrie.
____________________________
Ironmike
BST 93, RDM 90
+
Darma
BST 61

Server: Bahamut
LS: MonstersInc
#92 Jun 07 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
This is what I've found so far:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103597-Temporary-Random-Facts-Thread?p=4641701&viewfull=1#post4641701

I'm probably going to leave off testing PDT and go quantify all the killer things I can get my hands on using the damage bonus.

Edit: How did you get a 20% Intimidation rate? I'm parsing a paltry 5-6% with a huge sample size.
Edit2: Somewhat nevermind, I think Killer effects in Altepa in general are messed up. They work in Misa and Vunk just fine at least.

Question - Do Killer merits allow you to intimidate things that you couldn't normally intimidate, like Puks and Demons?

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 12:39am by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#93 Jun 07 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
This is what I've found so far:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103597-Temporary-Random-Facts-Thread?p=4641701&viewfull=1#post4641701

I'm probably going to leave off testing PDT and go quantify all the killer things I can get my hands on using the damage bonus.

Edit: How did you get a 20% Intimidation rate? I'm parsing a paltry 5-6% with a huge sample size.
Edit2: Somewhat nevermind, I think Killer effects in Altepa in general are messed up. They work in Misa and Vunk just fine at least.

Question - Do Killer merits allow you to intimidate things that you couldn't normally intimidate, like Puks and Demons?

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 12:39am by Byrthnoth


Killer effects do not let you intimidate demons, but tatami shield or killer shortbow does. The merits do not improve damage increase to demons, dragons, arcana or undead. You only get the ~1% from killer shortbow. I have not tested having /drg or /pld so we have the native trait to see how it performs. I think your atma test would do the same. It looks like from your testing that the merits do not improve these other killer effects, but you do get the same base damage+ as our native ones.

I'm pretty sure our killer traits are all the same potency. I did test a few of those. I have not seen a difference between intimidation rate, or damage+ w/ gausape between bird killer, beast killer, and vermin killer, although I have not tested all killer effects. I thought perhaps they were different strength since we get them at different levels.

I'm not sure about puks. They definitely qualify as Dragons, but they are chimera between dragon and colibri. I'm not sure if bird killer will affect them, but it shouldn't be hard to test.

As far as 20% intimidation rate, I'm just killing stuff w/ my parser running. I've been working on my Double attack trial axe, and all my parses since the update are showing right around 20% intimidation rate (19~21). I do have 5/5 merits though and I have killer shortbow on (which is only 1% change). not sure if you do or not. It also shows PET intimidation rate around 4~5%


Nice testing. I went out to do some, but I was so sleepy I didn't stay up for it. Yes, I know about inconsistencies, thats why I created a bug report thread on official forums. They want more testing because they are not sure what the complaint is. So its sitting in my court right now.



Edited, Jun 8th 2011 1:17am by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#94 Jun 08 2011 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
I figured out what why killer traits are inconsistent. See BG thread for more (and other random testing).

Figured it out again... for some reason Plantoid, Arcana, Demon, and Beast Killer are only 8% Intimidation rate, while all the others that I can test are 10%. I don't have /DRG or /PLD, so I can't test those.

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 8:40am by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#95 Jun 09 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
I'm pretty well done taking this testing as far as I'm taking it. Tonight I'm going to try to see if there's a cap on intimidation rate. I expect Hobgoblin Chocolate (12?), 5 Effect merits (5), AF1 legs (1), Panther Mask (2?), Tatami Shield (2), Killer Shortbow (2), Atma of the Impenetrable (10), Killer Instinct (15), and Lizard Killer trait (10) would give a 59% intimidation rate (+29% damage with and without Beast Trousers, with another 15% from Killer Instinct for +48.35%) if there is no cap.


I'd like to test it with a Panther Mask +1 (+2~4), Tamer's Ring (+3), and Lizard Earring (maybe +5?), but they're rated between "Dead Slow" and "Very Slow" on FFXIAH so that's going to have to wait.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#96 Jun 09 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
I'm pretty well done taking this testing as far as I'm taking it. Tonight I'm going to try to see if there's a cap on intimidation rate. I expect Hobgoblin Chocolate (12?), 5 Effect merits (5), AF1 legs (1), Panther Mask (2?), Tatami Shield (2), Killer Shortbow (2), Atma of the Impenetrable (10), Killer Instinct (15), and Lizard Killer trait (10) would give a 59% intimidation rate (+29% damage with and without Beast Trousers, with another 15% from Killer Instinct for +48.35%) if there is no cap.


I'd like to test it with a Panther Mask +1 (+2~4), Tamer's Ring (+3), and Lizard Earring (maybe +5?), but they're rated between "Dead Slow" and "Very Slow" on FFXIAH so that's going to have to wait.



I've reviewed your findings on the BG forum in detail. I think you have a good model. It makes good sense why trousers were not showing a good increase and why tamer's ring shows 2% damage increase instead of 3. I do have it, and it fits your model and fits the stated text on the item. I think its ironic that our bst trousers are the weakest piece of gear.
The discrepancy you are pointing at for bst killer and plantoid killer compared to others is interesting in that they are the last ones obtained by bst, and they are obtained at higher levels. Is there a 2nd tier I wonder? would need to parse other traits at lower levels to check if they come out to 8% or not.

Your model suggests that suzaku's scythe is +6 or 7 killer trait, and probably 6 when I apply it to my testing. I saw 3% damage improvement from it alone.

Your model fits my old intimidation rate of 15% w/ my gear and merits, but not the 20% I"m seeing since the update. I think its a pretty good model, but I wonder if something is missing w/ this intimidation rate I"m getting.
if the base for bst is 8, I have on shortbow for 2, and 5 merits thats it for gnoles... but I have another 5% coming from somewhere.

If you can really stack lizard killer up so high... we could probably get 67% -pdt vs lizards :P maybe a bit higher w/ the right earring and weapon... a bit higher w/ the killer instinct up as well :P Great findings.

I"ll go ahead soon and make some changes to wiki regarding killer traits and point to your testing. Thank you very much for doing more testing regarding this.
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#97 Jun 09 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
Remember, it's (Intimidation rate)/2 = Damage Bonus and PDT bonus, so the max would be like -~33% PDT against Lizards with all the right gear. You'd be sacrificing slots that you could just wear real PDT in, but you'd have a ~67% Intimidation Proc rate to go along with it.

To work through an example:
Tamer's Ring = +3% Intimidation Rate
15% base (10+5 merits) + 3% from Ring = 18%
15%/2 = 7.5% = 7% damage boost
18%/2 = 9% = 9% damage boost
9-7 = 2% increase (could be +3 or +4 at this point)

From that, we can tell that Tamer's Ring is +3% or +4% intimidation rate (even if it wasn't written as +3 in the description). Then you could put on your Beast Trousers:
16% Base (10+ 5 merits+ 1 trousers) + 3% from Ring = 19%
16%/2 = 8% = 8% damage boost
19%/2 = 9.5% = 9% damage boost (Combined with the above results, this shows it has to be +3)

By running it at an odd and even Killer effect level like this, you can figure out the exact value.



Interesting point on the Trait II possibilities. Unfortunately, Ferine Gausape is level 89. Unless I sync myself to 89 and Aquan Killer II happens to have been 90, I won't be able to tell. Also, I don't have any level 89 job on my mule and most people cruise straight to 90. I'll check if he has anything close that I can delevel though. It's an interesting possibility.

As far as your 19-20% intimidation rate, I'm not sure. You have to be aware there are some qualifications that come with KParser's "intimidation rate." I think it assumes the monsters have 10% Double Attack (1.1 attacks per round average), which is important because Intimidations negate entire attack rounds. That's why I got such an absurdly low proc rate when I parsed against Mandies. When I did my testing against Wamouracampa (no native DA), I just did (Intimidations)/(Hits + Misses). "Misses" includes Intimidations, Parries, etc.


I updated BGwiki with most of the testing, but feel free to add it where-ever. Speaking of which, I noticed on this page that it claims all Birds have Aquan Killer. Personally, I don't feel this is the case. I think all Birds have Bird Affinity, which is 5% Intimidation Rate and +/-2% damage like our pets parse. What do you think?


List for tonight:
1) Bibiki Seashell (oops, haven't done the quest)
2) Massacre one of my mule's 90 jobs for the sake of science and test for Aquan Killer II - Nope, didn't work.
3) Hobgoblin Chocolate (probably 12), Bison Steak

Edit: Updated Test 5 and added Test 6 to the BG post. No super killer builds for us >:/

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 10:03pm by Byrthnoth
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#98 Jun 09 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Actually, my idea was to stack all the lizard killer gear/food/etc and max pdt at 50% w/ other gear and atma if needed... I can't say it would be terribly useful, but it would be interesting to try. Also i was not including the killer instinct in the number 67%.. but it looks like it might cap at 62.5% if killer effects is +50.

Also, I've been meaning to test gausape for -mdt as well, but haven't' gotten around to it. Its a simple test, but I wanted to see if it is -dt or just -pdt. I suspect it is -dt. I suppose getting a hecteyes or worm to cast on you a few times the same spell, w/ and w/out would be effective. A high level worm would work best. you can stay out of range w/ a bit of refresh and just cure yourself while it nukes you.
If the mob is too low level, you resist too much and its irritating getting a good number. actually having some hp+ atma, regen, and no mdt would work well to test in abyssea. I'll try this one if i can get online today... or tomorrow, cuz I probably won't be gaming today. ;.;


in order to test intimidation rate at lower levels, I would parse, and probably manually calculate, the rate at lower levels. Also, it might be useful to get a few of the traits on /blu to see if there is a difference, though I doubt that one.

Edit: I've just remember something else to test. I long time ago, I wondered if chr might also affect killer effects. It seems many of the plantoids and beasts you tested on were hich chr or difficult to charm mobs... 'cept the rabbits though... I'm just brainstorming really, but the nice discussion about the shade set intimidation rate does mention it goes down when mobs are higher level. There may be a stat modifier.. and I've long been suspicous of all chr+ they've always put on bst gear.

I've been updating wiki abit regarding killer effects and monster affinity. The are separate traits, but its clear that monster affinity gives 5% killer effect as well. I'm confident this Monster affinity is what all mobs natively have... Its why they are intimidated by the monster correlations and beastmasters are not. We do no have affinity, just the killer trait. I suspect the Affinity might give the bonus to attack or defense following the monster correlation chart, which is why it may not show up in maxed out pet testing attack on level 0 mobs...
I'm thinking I'll do an intimidation test w/ a supertank pet and keep cabasset on to see if I can actually measure a difference in intimidation rate. If not, i'll post bug report on official forums.


Edited, Jun 10th 2011 3:04am by Xilk
____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#99 Jun 10 2011 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
I didn't report it earlier, but I did a bunch of tests trying to figure out wtf AF3+2 head does.

First off, control:
Tulwar Scorpion takes 933 damage from 1000 needles without it on at any point
Mayfly Familiar takes 1183 damage from 1000 needles without it on at any point

Then, the unfortunate test case:
Tulwar Scorpion takes 933 damage from 1000 needles wearing it for Charm and continuously afterwards
Mayfly Familiar takes 1183 damage from 1000 needles wearing it for Call Beast and continuously afterwards

So then I tried to test if it affected damage dealt using Amigo against some rabbits. Everything with hat on.
1000 Needles = 1000 damage (honestly, I thought it was supposed to get a bonus anyway)
1000 Needles vs. 4 targets = 3x 250, 1x 252

I've gotten some weird +/- a few damage on 1000 needles against multiple targets before, so I don't think +1% here is really that significant. Anyway, using it on four rabbits pretty much ended my sabotender.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#100 Jun 10 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,102 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
I didn't report it earlier, but I did a bunch of tests trying to figure out wtf AF3+2 head does.

First off, control:
Tulwar Scorpion takes 933 damage from 1000 needles without it on at any point
Mayfly Familiar takes 1183 damage from 1000 needles without it on at any point

Then, the unfortunate test case:
Tulwar Scorpion takes 933 damage from 1000 needles wearing it for Charm and continuously afterwards
Mayfly Familiar takes 1183 damage from 1000 needles wearing it for Call Beast and continuously afterwards

So then I tried to test if it affected damage dealt using Amigo against some rabbits. Everything with hat on.
1000 Needles = 1000 damage (honestly, I thought it was supposed to get a bonus anyway)
1000 Needles vs. 4 targets = 3x 250, 1x 252

I've gotten some weird +/- a few damage on 1000 needles against multiple targets before, so I don't think +1% here is really that significant. Anyway, using it on four rabbits pretty much ended my sabotender.


Flies are weak to piercing damage

The 6.7 is stout servant
I've done those gets on the head piece also.

I simply want to test intimidation rate ansome magical ready moves
If I don't see anything tree Ill make a bug report.

1000 needles you could increase damage a bit on blu. Because it was magical instead of the same as cactuar.

____________________________
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC

Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
#101 Jun 11 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
6.7 is actually the ~-5% from Stout Servant (12/256) * -2% from monster/pet affinity, I think.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (1)