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#202 Dec 27 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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So, if you look at the formula/etc here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Pet_Food

I would bet the:
Min cap is 1600
Start MND (1) is 55
Rate (1) is 1024

I bet the slope changes at 135 MND, which corresponds to 1920 HP healed (Base + 20% fits for the last few pet foods). At that point it would have to drop to about 2.33333 HP per MND in order to hit your next data point, which is consistent with Tier V M values but almost nothing else. I'll probably go test this today after I'm done playing with Kenkonken.
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#203 Dec 27 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Theta:
50 MND : 1600 restored
55 MND : 1600 restored
56 MND : 1604 restored
80 MND : 1700 restored
115 MND : 1840 restored
120 MND : 1860 restored
121 MND : 1863 restored
135 MND : 1905 restored
155 MND : 1965 restored
200 MND : 2100 restored
220 MND : 2160 restored
221 MND : 2162 restored
248 MND : 2216 restored
276 MND : 2272 restored

So it has the constants and equation that I added here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Pet_Food

It's really quite nice.
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#204 Dec 27 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
So it has the constants and equation that I added here:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Pet_Food

It's really quite nice.


That is a gorgeous looking wiki page, well done sir. :D Nice info.
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#205 Dec 27 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, Byrth, don't think I haven't noticed you've been making BG wiki the best one out there w/ all the good info here...

Awesome chart and page. All the info is clear, clean and concise.. and thorough. The page is neat, and the references are well documented.
Its a very professional level of crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's. I'm usually too lazy to do that nicely.

However, last I recall, bg wiki has terrible pages for bst pets/jugs information... I'll have to double check. I don't think there is a good template for it.
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#206 Dec 27 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks! Haha

Also yeah, I'm not sure we even *have* a template for BST pets or any pet pages. I wanted to make a Nazuna page ages ago (took a picture and all) and eventually gave up because I couldn't figure out how to do it. xD Our template master will get around to that at some point, I assume.

At the moment I'm re-working spells into a new template: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Absorb-AGI
I did some work on the plane back to the US (up through B), but the template has a few minor issues and I want to get a complete M/V value list for spells before I go mass-uploading them.
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#207 Jan 03 2012 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Monster Jackcoat +2 Testing

I was skilling up on EM~T Bluffalo and wanted to try out the "Feral Howl" enhancement that I just got on the main servers. I did 10 samples without the Jackcoat, and 10 samples with it on. The difference is pretty dramatic when you try it for yourself. Here are the durations that I took from my timestamps, all done with 5/5 Feral Howl merits:

Without Monster Jackcoat:
 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        4 
    2                        0 
    3                        4 
    4                        7 
    5                        2 
    6                        0 
    7                        0 
    8                        5 
    9                        5 
    10                       0

With Monster Jackcoat:
 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        10 
    2                        6 
    3                        8 
    4                        15 
    5                        8 
    6                        5 
    7                        1 
    8                        10 
    9                        6 
    10                       11

There are some limitations involved with using timestamp info, but it gives a decent picture of the terrorize duration increase. The samples marked "0" are actually 0.5 seconds, or some amount less than 1 second that I can't check. You've all probably encountered those.

After using it for a while, and looking at these numbers, it seems to approximately double the Feral Howl duration. I'm not sure if the effect scales based on the number of merits you have placed into this skill (and I don't think I'm quite dedicated enough to check, haha).
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#208 Jan 03 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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Doubling duration looks about right from those numbers. Also, no merit augment has been discovered that doesn't vary pretty cleanly with merit level.
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#209 Jan 03 2012 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
Doubling duration looks about right from those numbers. Also, no merit augment has been discovered that doesn't vary pretty cleanly with merit level.


With Monster Jackcoat and 1/5 Feral Howl merits:
 Sample #       Duration (in seconds) 
    1                        2 
    2                        7 
    3                        6 
    4                        1 
    5                        4 
    6                        6 
    7                        6 
    8                        1 
    9                        3 
    10                       6

Well, the improvement is definitely less pronounced at 1/5 merits - would you say it's a safe bet that +20% Terror duration per merit level is a good guess?

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 9:23pm by Bookmarku
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#210 Jan 03 2012 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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I"d say +20% duration is a fair guess.

I went and repeated the testing for killer effects for helm. for some reason my head was confusing it. (I wasn't realizing that the killer instinct effect did not increase potency. only duration.) Anyway, its all good. Only difference is I had 5x killer effects merits. So paired w/ body and helm its +10% to damage and damage mitigation, which is a nice easy number to use. (11% w/ killer shortbow)

Gausape + monster helm are best combo for Primal Rend.

better than twilight helm + gausape, better than both twilight.

Primal Rend:
Naked 859
gausape + monster helm: 986
twilight helm & mail: 979
gausape + twilight helm: 970

As chr values increase I would expect the twilight gains to decrease while the 10% bonus from gausape + monster helm remains constant.

However i"m not exactly sure when it comes to the CHR used in the fINT portion of the calculation.. Guess I could try in abyssea and w/ higher chr values.. but getting to brew will only make the killer effects combo that much more potent.

Then again.. this probably would not work if you don't have killer effects merits... at least at low chr values.

Oh yeah, w/ Killer instinct, killer effects merits, gausape & monster helm, I was getting +40% in primal rend damage. Which is turning my head on how Killer instinct + Gausape and killer effects + are combining. I don't think we have the whole picture.

nvm, I was comparing to the naked base instead of the base w/ just monster helm. the +7 chr and dex make a difference..

this was vs lizard in terrigan vs lizards, using rabbit pet.

859 naked
897 w/ just helm
919 w/ just gausape

TWilight set instead: 979
gausape + monster helm 970

919 gausape
986 gausape + helm
1135 gausape + killer instinct
1206 gausape + helm + killer instinct


Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 11:15pm by Xilk

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 11:18pm by Xilk
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#211 Jan 03 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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I started retesting monster jackcoat for status ailment removal w/ reward.

It wasn't working. Keep in mind, this was not the jackcoat +1/2 just the normal jackcoat.
It didn't remove any status ailments at all. normal beast jackcoat and +1 seem to remove all 6 that /rdm can cast...

Also It wouldn't remove paralyze on carrie from marboling's bad breath in aby-kon even using the +2.

I"m abit puzzled.
I'll compaire the normal, +1, and +2 next time I test.
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#212 Jan 23 2012 at 9:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I nabbed a friend and did some testing in Brenner to figure out the remainder of the Pet Food info:

Pet Food Gamma: base regen 5/tic
Pet Food Delta: base regen 8/tic

For the Enhances 'Beast Healer' effect on the Monster Gaiters +2, these feet double the potency of each Beast Healer merit. So using pet food alpha (1 HP/tic), with 5/5 Beast Healer (which would increase that to 6 HP/tic regularly), if you wear the enhanced +2 Relic Feet, you end up with 11 HP/tic regen effect.

On the other end of the spectrum, 5/5 Beast Healer with these feet gives Pet Food Theta usage a 30 HP/tic regen. Pretty cool~

Edited, Jan 23rd 2012 11:29pm by Bookmarku
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#213 Jan 23 2012 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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nice. ty.
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#214 Jan 24 2012 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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So fully enhanced Beast Healer adds another 600HP to every Reward (over 3 minutes). Not bad!

If you're in a situation where it matters, then you will probably be riding the timer a little closer than that though and not benefiting from the full Regen effect duration.
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#215 Jan 28 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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I'm getting into my testing mode again on pet performance.

I think I'm going to collect parses of pet performances for each pet vs the adamantoise in Gustav tunnel. I'm pretty sure they have high def.
I want to use some non-abyssea mobs for benchmarking. I want mobs that are levels 95~105, and outside abyssea. I think I'll be making alot of petfood. I figure the boulder eaters there will have lower def also, (usually blm type yes?) anyway I'll play w/ gear and /check command to determin def of the different level mobs I parse against. My primary goal is to get better approximations of attack and def for our pets.

However in preparation, I've been confirming the base + STR for all the level 99 pets (I'm way too lazy to get beast affinity merits to test any of those which don't cap.)

I'll post that table shortly which has the confirmed numbers on them. However, I did notice a few peculiarities recently.

1) Has anyone else seen mp aspir'd from Falcorr?

I think DapperMac, FaithfulFalcorr, CrudeRaphie, & SlipperySilas don't follow exactly the same rules as most pets. These new ones were derived from normally non-charmable mobs. We already know from Dev's announcment that DapperMac has the same storeTP trait as a level 90 Samurai. I suspect Raphie may have some double attack as well, which is not normal for a pld. (I had to stop testing aymur multi-hit rate w/ raphie and use carrie instead because I couldn't tell if he was double attacking or not, when aftermath was not up). Maybe they have support jobs? or more than 1 job... or just borrowed traits.

2) DapperMac and Flowerpot merle have the exact same base damage + FSTR values at level 99.

This actually got me thinking,and it paying more attention to how mnk damage works. I think the mnk pets will give us some insight to pet damage.

the base damage is determined from skill. I figure a good estimate for their skill is the capped skill for their level, no merits or gear. 424 skill for a mnk at level 99. * .11 +3 = 49.64.. floor 49.

their base damage would be 49, CAPPED fSTR would be 73 - 49 = 24 for our mnk pets. IF they have the same weapon (none) then this makes total sense for capped fSTR situation and them having the exact same damage.

3) Julio's tp/hit did change when they decreased his delay. he is 5.9 tp/hit now instead of the 7.4 which it was before.

4) Louise hits alot harder now.



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#216 Jan 28 2012 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
2) DapperMac and Flowerpot merle have the exact same base damage + FSTR values at level 99.

This actually got me thinking,and it paying more attention to how mnk damage works. I think the mnk pets will give us some insight to pet damage.

the base damage is determined from skill. I figure a good estimate for their skill is the capped skill for their level, no merits or gear. 424 skill for a mnk at level 99. * .11 +3 = 49.64.. floor 49.

their base damage would be 49, CAPPED fSTR would be 73 - 49 = 24 for our mnk pets. IF they have the same weapon (none) then this makes total sense for capped fSTR situation and them having the exact same damage.

3) Julio's tp/hit did change when they decreased his delay. he is 5.9 tp/hit now instead of the 7.4 which it was before.

4) Louise hits alot harder now.


These are interesting findings - I'm interested to see the info when you've got it ready! :) I've never noticed mp being drained from Falcorr, but I was never really paying attention to that sort of thing with him... easy enough to check!

-

I did some reading on the basics of Guttler as I was making one, and now that it's finished and powered up, I wanted to toss out some findings. I saw in one of the threads on here (the Guttler blog thread) that the choke effect can have some variance based on target (perhaps like the Choke spell itself?). I checked it out at each Guttler phase, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95 just to see if the Choke effect strengthened based on level, but it was always the same.

-17 VIT
7 dmg/tic
57~58 second duration, based on timestamps (so essentially 1 min).

As for the Aftermath effect from Onslaught, I've seen a couple of differing figures for the attack boost - I did a quick test in Cape Terrigan to verify. Onslaught Aftermath testing

Before: 525 attack
After: 576 attack

So, essentially, a 10% attack boost. This stuff was probably already known, but I didn't see it clearly laid out anywhere. D: <3 So... there it is, haha.
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#217 Jan 29 2012 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately my main pc isn't working so great (posting from wife's laptop atm) so I'm not testing righ now, I'm trying to repair machine so I can ;.;)
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#218 Jan 30 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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This was posted by Slycer on BG, translations from a japanese magazine called Dengeki Playstation. The info for the enhanced Monster Armor+2 set is pretty much what we have figured out, but there was one piece that caught my eye:

Killer Instinct: Duration +4s
Feral Howl: Duration +1s
Beast Affinity: Pet Level +1
Beast Healer: Pet Regen +1
Familiar: Duration +10 minutes, Pet Haste +10%

:O

Edit: It's a really quick'n'dirty examination, but it's noticeable.

CrudeRaphie @ 0% Haste
CrudeRaphie w/Familiar

Most of the other enhancement effects that the JP article brought to light seem to be panning out well, so I don't really doubt that it's true. A very nice thing to have, those Monster Trousers+2!

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:19pm by Bookmarku
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#219 Jan 30 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Bookmarku wrote:
Most of the other enhancement effects that the JP article brought to light seem to be panning out well, so I don't really doubt that it's true. A very nice thing to have, those Monster Trousers+2!


Sucks to have to give up -11% pet pdt for it, though.

EDIT: Oh, only during Familiar. Not that big of a loss then, never mind.

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:24pm by yankeestom
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#220 Jan 30 2012 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Bookmarku wrote:
Edit: It's a really quick'n'dirty examination, but it's noticeable.

CrudeRaphie @ 0% Haste
CrudeRaphie w/Familiar

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 1:19pm by Bookmarku



Its BARELY noticeable.... but yeah 10% haste is cool. can take us up to 24% possible pet haste.

their are noticeably more 3sec intervals between attacks on the haste screenshot.

pet haste is gonna be a tricky one to test. There are a few more questions... how long does the haste last? full 40 min? Do trousers need to remain equipped for the duration to keep the haste or only when using familiar?
I don't see anyone keeping trousers on for 40 min.
It is a nice surprise though!
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#221 Jan 30 2012 at 8:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
Its BARELY noticeable.... but yeah 10% haste is cool. can take us up to 24% possible pet haste.

their are noticeably more 3sec intervals between attacks on the haste screenshot.

pet haste is gonna be a tricky one to test. There are a few more questions... how long does the haste last? full 40 min? Do trousers need to remain equipped for the duration to keep the haste or only when using familiar?
I don't see anyone keeping trousers on for 40 min.
It is a nice surprise though!


Yar, you're right, it is barely noticeable, and timestamp methodology is far from perfect for testing haste (maybe one step above 'eyeballing' and one step below counting FRAPS frames?). I did some more examination though and the delay reduction that you get at 14% pet haste and 24% pet haste is much more obvious (going from 3 second gaps with the occasional 4 second gap, to 2 second gaps with the occasional 3 second gap). Using this info, and Atma of the Omnipotent substitution, I found that you don't need to keep the Monster Trousers +2 equipped to receive enhanced Familiar's haste bonus.

Also, using all pet haste available to me (14% from gear, 16% from atma, 10% from enhanced Familiar), I still had a timestamp spread that was essentially identical to a 25% pet haste setup. It wasn't a perfect test by any means, so let's just say it's a fair assumption with some not-completely-terrible evidence pointing to a pet haste cap of 25%.

Edit: Found an older post that uses the timestamp method, and it makes me think that perhaps even more pet haste would need to be available before making the statement that I did in my second paragraph. I just... dont know. XD Someone, please take up the torch!

Edited, Jan 30th 2012 9:36pm by Bookmarku
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#222 Jan 30 2012 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Louise has 4604 hp at level 99. `I used run wild and spammed macros for timestamps. I very consistantly get 1% hp recovered every 6 seconds. I should spread this out over a minute or so to check for variation also. this implies 1/2% per tick or ~23 hp/tic from run wild. I wouldn't really think its 23/tic though.

I'm tired atm, I'll do some other pets when I wake up (before work). If I check a wide spread of max hp's I can see if the hp recovery is % based or a more discreet amount. it really shouldn't be too hard to nail that one down.

I'll post my other pet data after I get parser working again.

AS far as pet haste goes? its a fair bet it's all gear haste and caps at 25% like players. I'm really not sure how to check that. I've recorded a few fights w/ fraps before. It really was not easy to identify common points in the animation to measure frames or differences in attack speed.

really not sure what to do there aside from relying on delay calculations from tp and known haste values.

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 12:24am by Xilk
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#223 Jan 31 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Here is the data I have so far. I don't see Julio's hp anywhere yet, and I haven't double checked it. I also didn't have Fargann available atm. I'll have to make some. The only real new info here is the BaseD + fSTR values for level 99, and the tp adjustments for louise and julio.

 
 
Level 99 Pets	JOB	Min	Max	baseD+STR	tp/hit	HP	Attack	Def	Strong	Weak 
Presto Julio 	WAR	83	93	122     	5.9	4532				 
DiscreetLouise	WAR	76	99	131     	7.4	4604			Darkness	 
BugeyedBroncha	WAR	90	99	130     	5.7	4912				 
FlowerpotMerle	MNK	76	99	73      	4.8	5216				 
GorefangHobs	WAR	93	99	130     	6.4	5218				 
GooeyGerard	WAR	95	99	129     	6.4	4298			Water	 
CrudeRaphie	PLD	96	99	133     	6.4	4212			Lghtng	Earth 
FaithfulFalcorr	THF	86	99	126     	6.2	4968			Fire	 
DipperYuly	THF	76	99	124     	6.2	4092			Wind	 
LuckyLulush	WAR	76	99	128     	6.2	4912				 
DapperMac	MNK	76	99	75      	6.2	5542				 
SlipperySilas	???	23	99	121     	5.4	3388				 
FatsoFargann	WAR	81	99	130        	6.9	4298			Water	 
BloodclawShasra	WAR	90	99	129     	6.4	5218				 


Edited, Jan 31st 2012 9:52am by Xilk

I was actually in abyssea yesterday when doing the quick hp & run wild test w/ louise. I stacked only STR atma while killing some rabbits. It damage was capping out around 250~300. I think w/ a bit if atma tinkering, we could probably determine STR more precisely by trying to figure when adding STR atma doesn't increase damage anymore. It should give us the fSTR cap. (after seeing the mnk fSTR it feels like that much of pet damage calculation matches players).

Anyway, lots of work and parsing to do.

I Updated the values. These are all confirmed level 99 BaseD + fSTR values.

I should point out because it might not be quickly apparent to those not doing the testing, that thf type pets are actually hitting the highest damage numbers in these capped situations. The reason for this is they have a higher crit damage bonus than war's. Warriors have +8% damage, thf's have +14%. Falcorr can hit up to 603 damage. This is the highest unbuffed damage a pet can hit in a melee/crit hit.

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 11:06pm by Xilk

Edited, Jan 31st 2012 11:53pm by Xilk
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#224 Jan 31 2012 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sweet, nice to see concrete numbers for DMG and TP/hit. And Raphie is strong against Thunder? Interesting. :o

I have the MaxHP data for Presto Julio at its level cap (4532 HP @ level 93). Did you have Beast Affinity merits when using it? Julio has the same Hit Point rank as pets such as BugeyedBroncha and LuckyLulush, so 4912 HP at level 99.
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#225 Jan 31 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Bookmarku wrote:
Sweet, nice to see concrete numbers for DMG and TP/hit. And Raphie is strong against Thunder? Interesting. :o

I have the MaxHP data for Presto Julio at its level cap (4532 HP @ level 93). Did you have Beast Affinity merits when using it? Julio has the same Hit Point rank as pets such as BugeyedBroncha and LuckyLulush, so 4912 HP at level 99.


Ha!

Thanx for the correction! No, I didn't have BA merits. I mixed 2 directions of testing on my check list.

I had Julio on my to do list for TP/hit check. I completely forgot that he was capped at 93. No, I don't have any BA merits. I kept reviewing earlier posts in the thread to check which pets you had level 99 hp for, and I completely didn't think to remove Julio from this list.

I'm interested in some methodology for more testing of elemental resistances for pets. My current plan is to stack only HP+ atma on and send pet at some decently strong NM's in abyssea which are very specific about the element they use. I'd appreciate if anyone can give good suggestions on expanding the NM list. Timed Spawn NM's would be best. I want to record each pet against their moves (w/out protective atma) to compare damage on each pet to the same move from the same NM. Please let me know if you have a better idea.


Fire: Battlerigged Chariot
Lightning: Turul (spikes); Dhorme Khimaira
Wind: Amhuluk; Gamayun
Ice: Chione?
Earth: Koios?
Water: Iku-Turso, Sedna,
Darkness: Maere?
Light:

Otherwise for DD, my next steps are parsing Damage for all pets vs Adamantoise in Gustav tunnel (checking enemey level and def for each fight). Even If I don't get precise values for attack, this should allow a comparison and a way to rank our pets attack relative to each other.
Next I'll see about doing STR tests in abyssea. It would be really nice to have a good mob or NM to test this on. Something w/ consistent level which I can hack on and not kill... ideas are welcome.
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#226 Jan 31 2012 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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Cuelebre for earth, I would say. For Darkness, Pil is actually your best bet with Flank Opening. It does entirely consistent damage (accounting for the +50% when his shields are up).
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