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THE definative data on BST subbingFollow

#1 Jan 08 2004 at 7:17 AM Rating: Default
Ok, prompted by the lack of culpable answers that I saw on this board, I ventured into Vanadiel determined to figure out exactly how beastmasters work. I had 3 jobs to play with:
A lvl 30 WHM
A lvl 8 BST and
A lvl 12 BRD

So I set about running some tests on the charm and length of charm of creatures using bst as a sub. Here are the results:

LVL + JOB TOUGHNESS CHARM #TRIES

12 BRD Decent 3:20 1

12 BRD Decent 3:30 4
12 BRD Decent 3:40 * 4

12 BRD Tough 0:15 1
12 BRD Tough 0:20 * 3
12 BRD Tough 0:22 * 1

12 BRD Even 2:30 1
12 BRD Even 2:35 * 2
12 BRD Even 2:15 * 3
12 BRD Even 2:45 * 1

30 WHM Easy >5:00 2
30 WHM Even ------ 9
30 WHM Decent 3:45 1
30 WHM Decent ----- * 6


During all trials I had a lvl 8 BST subbed. Trials with a * after them are on the same creature (often by zoning before getting trounced and then coming back). On the 1st of the last set of trials I charmed a bat, it took me 2 attempts and lasted well over 5 minutes. The last 3 are all on Sauromogue skinks, which nearly killed me. I got lucky and charmed one once, the decent one, but was unable to recharm it after six subsequent attempts. My charisma was 15 as a BRD/BST, 28 as a WHM/BST, and 12 as a BST.

Also worthy of note is an "easy" bee i charmed in giddeus for a grand total of 15 minutes as my WHM/BST.

So what can we conclude? Charm ability is based on the BEASTMASTER LEVEL, charm length is based on CHARISMA.

What does this mean? I'll leave you to make your own conclusions, but from what I can tell, the greater the level discrepency between MAIN and /BST sub, the more difficult it is to charm useful monsters. HOWEVER, once you do it's just like being a beastmaster again. sort of.

Tell me what you think of the tests, if you spot any errors in my logic or just feed my ego, and enjoy.
#2 Jan 09 2004 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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lol. There is a LOT of misinformation here.

1. You were going about this all wrong :)
2. Your conclusion is at best based on sketchy data.

My Claim: Charm is entirely based upon Charisma.

My Proof:

Example #1: 18 BST/8 BRD Qufim.
In ONE try, I was able to charm a Beach Pugil. This Pugil was IT to the level 22 character in the party, making this Pugil a minimum of level 25. Charisma as 18bst/8brd - 28 (Incluing +chr gear)

Example #2: 19 BST/8 BRD Mariphod Mtns.
Able to charm numerous Tough flies and lizards, pitting them against each other. In all but 2 or 3 occasions my charm died before it escaped. (3 mins or so, at least.) - Charisma as 19bst/8brd - 29 (Including +chr gear)

Example #3: 19 BST/8 BRD Meriphod Mtns.
FAILED to charm any tough flies. Had to zone/run/escape/die repeatedly. Was barely able to hang onto even cons for more than a couple minutes. - Charisma as 19BST/8 BRD - 24 (no +chr gear.)

Example #4: 30 RDM/15 BST Ordelle's Caves.
Able to consistantly charm mobs in the level 22-23 region and hang onto them for 3-5 minutes. - Charisma as 30 RDM/15 BST - 28 (Including +chr gear)


As you can see here, the mobs in the majority of these examples were leveled roughly 20-23ish. As illiustrated by my test in the Meriphod mountains, the ability to charm, as well as the level of mob which you can charm is based solely upon Charisma.


Why this makes sense:
BST is the only class that has an 'A' rank in CHR. Even Bards only have a 'B' so to speak. Any class other than a bst, even with a bst sub just won't be able to charm high enough level creatures by the time they hit level 40-50ish. Their Charisma will just be too low.

The tests you did are interesting, but it seems as though you set out to prove something that you just can't prove unless you play a beastmaster full time. :)

The examples I provided (Aside the Meriphod mountains examples) Were taken over about 3 days of playing. I've seen evidence to support my theory ever since I was level 1.
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#3 Jan 09 2004 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I don't understand why someone would sub BST to start with. For one, the max the BST can be is 1/2 the level of your main job. The only reason I can see to sub beast is if you were bard, for the extra CHR.

What is a WHM lvl 30 going to accomplish by taming an easy? Have it kill another easy? We are not very good warriors =)

From my experience, CHR directly relates to both what you can tame and for how long.

Krissa

PS
Niefirst: what are you doing in lathiene? You and I are supposed to meet up soon! @_@

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Female Hume -=]Server: Carbuncle[=-
#4 Jan 09 2004 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still at work :) I hit the boards here while I work. with a whm you may not see the point, but with a bard subbing bst would actually allow you to solo pretty efficiently. :)

Overall, I'd rather just be a bst. :)
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Kyt - 70 Orc Hunter - Stormscale Server
http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?72925

Guild: http://www.wowjuice.org
#5 Jan 09 2004 at 7:59 PM Rating: Default
Krissa, that 1/2 level as your main job is wrong. I know that is what the strat guide says, but it has very little correct information in it. As a lvl 30mnk/15bst, I was able to charms evens sometimes, and decents a good deal of the time. Bst is best as a main, but only seems so because of the added chr.
#6 Jan 10 2004 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
UM... it seems to me that both of you are going about it wrong...
the only way you can give definative data would be to have certain things as a constant...
ie.
the jobs involed would HAVE to be
1 beastmaster
2 bard
3 any other job
all of the jobs should be the same level and be divisble by 2
(on a side note, what race your char is would play a party because of the different charismas)

for examples assume all jobs are 18
lvl 18 brd/(9)bst
charms (difficulty of mob) (type of mob) (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)

lvl 18 bst/(9)brd
charms (same difficulty mob) (same type) (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)

lvl 18 other job/ bst
charms (same difficulty mob) (same type) (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)
charms same same (length of charm)

fll in the blanks and there you have it! i am no where near getting beastmaster so... i cant test it myself... oh well
#7 Jan 12 2004 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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The only reason your level would be relavant would be so that we could know what level mob you were charming. (ie: even match=your level) The charm ability is, as I've said about a million times, NOT level-based.
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Guild: http://www.wowjuice.org
#8 Jan 13 2004 at 10:11 PM Rating: Default
whether its level based or not, you still need to have everything constant in an experiment to know whats what...did it ever **** on you that a lvl 18bst/9brd MAY have more charisma than a lvl 6bst/3brd hmm since charm goes off charisma it seems level does play a part wow!
#9 Jan 14 2004 at 12:22 AM Rating: Default
i am a level 26bst/13whm with 34+3 chr


in qufim i successfully charmed the Kracken 2 times (2 for 2 so far)

first attempt== not a problem, i got him and then used my 2 hour immedialty.

second attempt== it took me 2 trys to get him (he got me down to 111 hp in 3 hits O.o), i then used familiar again.

Kracken = lv 38-40 mob

conclusion = no idea, just thought i would throw it out there...maybe its a mixture of both the level and the chr? who knows, it could all be random as well because ive sometimes had trouble charming decients .... ^_^
#10 Jan 14 2004 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Some classes have been found to be more or less resistant to charming.

Skinks (raptor class) are pretty resistant to it. Damselflies/mayflies are less resistant - I *think*. :)
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#11 Jan 14 2004 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
My goal was not to misinform people, but to give some viable data on subbing beastmaster.

If you woulnd't mind putting up data on each of your tests, similar to the data i provided, we can then compare results. Until that time, I would have to say that *your* data is the sketchier of the two ^^.

Also, as a lvl 30 whm i've got charisma in droves. 28 or so, if i remember correctly, with the bst sub. So explain to me why it took me a frightening 9 tries to charm a skink, still to fail, when it was only decent to me?

Also #2: you only did one test as a RDM, charming mobs significantly lower than your level. Try running out and grabbing decent or even matches as your RDM (but stay close to the zone). When i tried to grab decent skinks they wiped the floor with me, again and again, over the course of 9 charm attempts, and 6 the third time.
#12 Jan 15 2004 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Skinks are notoriously difficult to charm. Your test is somewhat skewed because of this. :-\
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75 BST - 30/07/2004
#13 Jan 16 2004 at 4:20 PM Rating: Default
notoriously hard to charm, eh? well, that would certainly explain it. could any high level bst's help me out with some "easy" and "medium" difficulty charms for someone my level (oh, and good news, my bard's up to 27, so i have him as a comparitive class)
#14 Jan 17 2004 at 4:32 PM Rating: Default
Umm... Just something I've discovered. My level 30 Warrior had beast subbed at level 12. So 30War/12 Beast. I went into Jugner Forest, for ***** and giggles, and was messing around with Forest Tigers. I charmed one for over 5 minutes at Easy prey to warrior. I think it is based on a combination of what the monster checks to be to the character, whether beastmaster main or not, and charisma. A combination of the two. My charisma at that point was not very high. I'm not messing around with it as a subjob, though, I want it to be my main. It is level 25 now. Haha, neifirst, I am catching up :D.



Vetinari, 25 BST/34 WAR/2 WHM!!! Carbuncle server
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