Ranger still a competitive DD?Follow

OK, I'll bite.

I find that RNG is still a great deal of fun but not necessarily the most useful. The lack of procs is a pain. Bounty shot isn't godly or really a reason to definitely bring a RNG over another job. Haste is always unfair. Ammo is scarce and expensive (personally not a problem since I can craft most of it).

Defense is a bit of a problem to some people. There's jobism against RNG in the general population. No Crit WS and all.

That being said, RNG can be up near SAM in pure WS spam if prepped for it. Sekka > WS > WS > Barrage > WS > Double Shot > Meditate > WS > EES > Shot > WS can be fun if you can stay alive that long (or your target can).

@TheLastRemainingInTime:

You probably don't see RNG in XP because anyone who has enough time and gear invested in RNG to keep with it in these trying times has long since capped it out. Also, they don't want to spend hundreds of thousands of gil to merit/timefarm when they can just as easily come on a melee for free. That and RNG is nigh useless in lowman, so there's not really any current demand for it outside of Maat and thrill seeking.

With Abyssea armor/buffs taken into account, here is how the landscape has changed since the days of pink bird massacre: RNG now hits harder, which is negated by DDs capping out crit rate. RNG can get 2, 5, or 7/tic regain to drop a hit or two off TP phase, negated by DD having atmas that turn anything into a joytoy. RNG has Sidewinder on top of already superior base damage and FSTR2 considerations, negated by DDs having native MultiCrit WS. RNG can WS spam like a 2hr SAM, negated by the time spent with timers down afterwards. Unless you hog the ISLs...

Jishnu's is quite possibly RNG's saving grace in the above diatribe. Simply put, without a good MultiCrit WS, you can't get the most out of the exponential returns on crit boosting atmas. Even with Jishnu's, the fact you can't have Double/Triple attacks during it is a serious setback. The fact that RNG regains and Store TPs for so much of its TP makes the ODD additional effect of a Gandiva that much less potent.

RNG just isn't suited to Abyssea. If RNG got boosted to the same extent that others have in abyssea - 110 MAB and 50 INT for BLM, 10-20/tic refresh for all mages, and everything listed above for melee - RNG would be the end-all DD. It's actually a testament to RNG's raw power that given such moderate Abyssea gains, it keeps pace with jobs that have exponentially increasing returns working in their favor.

Coming back to reality, RNG just isn't suited to Abyssea. Poor proc ability, can't tank like a MNK, WAR, NIN, or THF, Bounty Shot barely matters with procs, and many other things all work against it.



Oh, SCH is to mage as RNG is to DD. It's fun and can be good, but you will be needed on something else.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 11:26am by tertoonetwothreefour

/blush

Hate is the major problem of RNG inside party nowadays. IT's not the only problem of survive, but the matter to attract monstor to your position that mages are here too.
The other side , Dead aim and Double shot didn't count into ws , it also reduce the power of rng.

Well, yes, both are good for TP for rng . I meant that if that two things will enhance the power of the ws for rng(like Double attack proc on WS), it can greatly strengthen the power of rng.

Don't forget RNG also has rampage, and some high damage axes. Seems like an OA2-4 gun or bow WS spamming could do some nice damage.

I know all the RNG's do a bit "WTF!!" when someone brings up Axe / Dagger type builds, but honestly inside abyssea it might be the better route. Every single negative mentioned above doesn't apply to Rampage / Evis, you can do VV / RR / Apoc or some similar build and spam to your hearts content. If the answer is "then play WAR" then why are we even discussing RNG again? Outside Abyssea Archery is amazing, but inside the atma is just too melee orientated.

Our shell actually has a dedicated "RNG" we bring to events, along with a DRK, DRG and SAM. This is because we tend to spam NM's in sets of 10~15 at a time and we want to be able to proc various things during our run. Having everyone stop and wait for "the right time" to pop a NM is stupid when your doing 10~18 if not more of them. For piercing RNG gets all Archery / Marksmanship and some Dagger, although we have a dedicated THF. This makes RNG invaluable when you need to proc blue.

Seriously guys, Abyssea isn't about damage and epeen so stop worrying about it. Killing a monster isn't hard, its all the procing that takes time, skill and flexibility. RNG's place is with bigger organized groups that need blue proced and proced often. It doesn't fit into the "WHM + MNK + THF" crowd who are usually just dual box's anyway.

Very wrong. Blue is awesome on all the big NM's as it enhances their drop rates for actual gear. Things like goading belt, bullwhip belt, zelus tiara, rani drops, and so forth. That +Crit body from the winged raptor in Highlands also comes to mind. As a shell we got all our members full +2 a long time ago, we're got almost everyone full +2 on their 2nd jobs and working on getting everyone an emp weapon. Once you get to this point, farming +2 really becomes a side thing, unless its body +2, those NM's are a PITA.

And the "get an emp" argument is immediately null and void as other jobs get the exact same thing if not better.



Huh? Is this the new if a rng shoots for 30 is it like drg for 20? That statement makes no sense, +crit effects all attacks equally. Ranged attack doesn't get as much from +crit rate because RA's ratio is already near what a crit would cap at anyway, but it doesn't stop the +crit damage from boosting hits. Whats really hurting RNG's is the same thing that hurt them back at 75 and that's haste stacking. Most melee's can get 25% in gear haste plus whatever a mage and / or BRD can toss on them. Inside aybseea where accuracy is nearly meaningless and DA / TA are so plentiful, melee's can then stack attack / DA / TA until their bleeding out their nose's. None of that effects RA, the most Archery RNG can do is load up on r.attack, STR and some crit atma's and hope for the best. The odds are really stacked against all forms of ranged attack inside abyssea, at least the nuke guys got direct +damage and tons of MAB.

And not a single thing I said was wrong. Blue procs are important and ranged attacks take a damage hit inside abyssea compared to regular melee attacks and nukes.

But please continue the asshattery

Because asshats / trolls will pick through anything / everything you say in an attempt to twist / malign it so they can troll harder. This would then entail several posts back and forth. Instead I'll just cut to the end and spell out exactly what I mean in such a way as asshats can not respond without stepping on themselves. Answer the argument before the argument is made. Its most efficient that way, although bad for my post count as I don't +1 myself.

You raise some pretty good points despite being drunk. I think you're preaching to the choir a little bit here, though your average RNG still equips a DD earring over a Novia in a big NM fight, and it's pretty fair to extrapolate their playstyle from there.

The only place /SAM truly shines over other subs is on worms where melee damage and mob movement isn't a concern. Anywhere else and by definition, RNG is better off being as little of a concern as possible because it's there to proc more than actually DD. To me, that means /SAM, -Enmity, and caution (which admittedly means making less use of /SAM). To the youngboold RNGs you've been around, that should mean /NIN, and a thorough tongue lashing from the run leader beforehand and during when
they inevitably muss it up.



Edited, Jun 25th 2011 12:02pm by tertoonetwothreefour

Late to the thread.

Yes, RNG is still a competitive DD...conditionally. You put in the effort, you pour in the gil; you will get very nice results.

And speaking to the main reason i posted, get Jishnu's Radiance if you are a bow RNG(or Wildfire if you prefer guns). Both Emp WSs are game changers for the job in my opinion. I got JR about a month or so ago now and let me say its just ridiculous. This is one of the few times since i've been playing FFXI that hype i've heard about something is truly justified.

RNG was my first 75 way back when, i'd lvl it back and forth with THF(get some lvls on RNG, farm more cash for ammo on THF, rinse repeat); and i have to say i have not had as much fun on the job since that initial lvling period. Throw in Bounty Shot(which i admit was a laughable JA when i first heard of it-but has been proving quite the gem) and the job just rocks now.

Only thing RNG is missing atm is some form hate management imo. I dont care who or what is tanking for you, dropping huge WSs on a mob every time is gonna pull it to you. Then as RNG is atm, your face gets kicked in , even /nin.

Hi everyone, mind I'm chipping a bit?
I just returned last month and got my BLU and DNC to 90 with same AF3 +1/+2 done. I'm thinking to bring my RNG to 90 after my SAM.

Couple things I wanna know:
- Is Marksmanship really dead now?
- Is Harrier +2 worth it? Or it's just better to shoot for Gandiva?
- Please tell me about the x-hit build's gear/info for the current lvl cap/gear choices
- What are the good atma sets RNG use nowadays?
- There's so few info I can get regarding "Enhances" <trait> on AF3 +1/+2. Can you tell me about it?

Thanks,

1) Marksmanship isn't *dead*, but I think it definitely suffers from a weak selection of guns, plus expensive ammo. The only real choices for guns would be the STR Magian, the WoE gun, or Armageddon (which, due to the WS granted by it, is more of a COR thing than a RNG thing). Meanwhile there are a variety of easy-to-get bows that are quite good, plus the Magian, WoE, and Empyrean. Jishnu's Radiance is a job-changer, whether you go full Emp or go for the WoE version.

2) Gandiva is the superior bow, and it's not terribly difficult to do. Fistule is a joke, Bukhis isn't that bad, and Alfard has enough rewards that you can entice others to help with it. Harrier +2 is still badass though, so definitely get one or the other.

3) I view X-hit as far less of a consideration than it used to be, due to regain atmas. However, since I do not have room in my atma selection for a regain atma, I have a solid 5-hit with Gandiva.

4) Atmas will depend entirely on whether you have access to Jishnu's Radiance or not. Without Jishnu's, you should probably be using something like Stout Arm/Drifter/Sea Daughter. Ranged attack has such a huge effect on RNG attacks that I prefer Stout Arm/Drifter over taking a second regain atma. If you do have Jishnu's, you should be going with Razed Ruin/Gnarled Horn/Stout Arm (the last is debatable, but I find it to be stronger than Sanguine Scythe). Situationally replace Stout Arm with Sea Daughter for the regain.

5) There's not much help I can give on what enhancements the AF2 +1/+2 give. The obvious answer would be that Snapshot and Double Shot would proc more frequently, and that Velocity Shot would get increased speed/attack. Unlimited Shot, I have no idea, it's useless anyway.

1-No it isn't. I have always liked bow over gun on RNG, but marks def has its uses. One that i just found recently(prolly known to everyone else a while tho i'll admit) is if you took the time to get Trueflight, RNG can help with Amber kills.

2-I went WoE route personally. If you have the ppl to to help on Gandiva drops, why not go for it? But if you do "settle" for a Harrier +2 it will perform quite well. 2k+ WSs outside Abyssea and 5k+ inside(seriously if its DC or lower, Jishnu's Radiance will one-shot from yellow most mobs inside-and no worries of ruby on a total one-shot either), not bad at all for the inferior model imo.

3-I Honestly don't bother with X-hit builds on RNG atm. Even /nin TP gain has been at a decent rate for me outside. And in Abyssea, Atma kinda made thinking about this issue moot for me.

4-I'm usually rocking Stout Arm, VV, and RR.

5-I'll speak to twh effects that i've really noticed. On +1 hands, Bounty Shot starts at TH3 instead of base TH2. And i finally got another +2 this weekend and when that kicks in it seems to be double dmg(i really need to get more RNG +2, i want this to happen ALOT more).

I'm usually popping a yellow curry bun, but i do keep a few red on me just because.

If SW is your go to WS atm i totally get why you'd go with Sea Daughter, makes sense. Should prolly take my post with a grain of salt as i am gearing/equiping atma for Jishnu's and not Side or Ref.

Okay thank you for all the helpful responses. I feel almost 99% percent better about leveling this job. (Making a death note reference here)



Ok, another question. (I hate asking, but unfortunately I am still incredibly new to this job and with the rate we level at nowadays, 'experience' is hard to grind.)

So now getting high up there with ranger and getting mixed reviews about how our damage is. I hear good things (aside from the enmity problem) about the jobs damage ouside of abyssea. Although I also hear that sidewinder/refulgent arrow is better than Jishnu's radiance outside. (Due to Dead Aim apparently not working on weaponskills) Not sure how accurate this is.

But that brings into question, Aeolus Arrow (high powered rare/ex ammo)is it worth using for sidewinder/refulgent since apparently it can't ever really be used for Jishnu's radiance? Also since I plan to go after harrier +2 asap, is it worth making a gear set for sidewinder or refulgent arrow i.e. ws gorgets?

Edited, Jul 14th 2011 6:30pm by Thelastremainingintime

At the bolded, huh?

EDIT: Went looking and found this and so answered my own question.

Link on the official forums.

My goodness though. My JR dmg will be even better if they ever fix this.

Edited, Jul 14th 2011 10:27pm by spiritreaverdiablos