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#52 Feb 15 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
I was ranted on for using allure. An Atma with superior MND and superior -enm in a healing role.
Some gimp player somewhere once wrote:
I was ranted on for using Denali Bonnet. An equip with Haste+ and Attack+ for a damage dealing role.
Same argument, different circumstance.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 3:55pm by Noodles
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#53 Feb 15 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Same argument, different circumstance.


Well if someone had access to a Denali but didn't have a W. Turban yet then it would be the same argument. If they had both and were using the Denali thats a different argument.

Simialrly If I had any of the alternate atmas you suggested and insisted on Allure, then you have a better argument supporting your position.
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#54 Feb 15 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Also go get Harmony, takes like a few dom ops and a quick quest. Rescuer isn't exactly hard either concidering a pickup dyna-xarc group can usually kill DL now even without a full brd rotation.


I have far more greater priorities in my list of things to get than atmas that will support my healing role as RDM. I acted as sole healer on RDM for MNK tank once. Most of my RDM time is spent soloing. I typically play RNG and COR as mains. I have a huge list of things I want to get done for those jobs. Then I'll think about rounding out my RDM atma.

And while dynamis lord may be easier to kill these days, its not like pickup groups are spending 500k for the thrill of trying. If I run across one, I'll try to tag along.
It doesn look like Harmony is not that challengign to get, but again healing atma for RDM aren't big on my priority list.
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#55 Feb 15 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Discussing [RDM] on a RNG forum is getting tiresome.


Itemized list of why we are still on this subject:

-Your RDM first post, we actually let slide. I read and did not care about that one time you healed a MNK. Noodles made a minor, non flamatory aside about how the -Enmity on Allure might be overkill if you have a half decent cure set.

-In response, you stated that you had "good gear" to wear, whch turned out to include marginally beneficial Refresh and MND gear. You also state that there aren't that many other healer's atmas out there. MM, Harmony, Ambition, Full Moon, Rescuer, Apoc, Stormbird called, wanted to know wruuuuu.

-It is not until your fourth response in the exchange that you clarify your atma situation as being limited. This is practically a bait and switch, the audience was made to assume you went with Allure for objective reasons, which is obviously a dubious prospect, as opposed to your subjective reasons, which are completely valid and everyone gets without your self righteous lecture on RL:FFXI balance.

-Then you passive aggressively completed the bait and switch, hinting that I am irresponsible in how I handle my life because I joined enough shout groups to get Apoc. You then restate your scenario, explaining how when you cure a tank, you cure it. way2b.


As for your most recent attempt to justify your argument which we already understand and accept, no matter how circuitously and poorly presented it may have been:

Quote:
Quote:
How is it not obvious to you that we're discussing hypothetical situations, and not literally bashing you for not having apoc?


I thought this all started when I mentioned a real situation where I had to heal a MNK.

Quote:
Yes. As someone that has tried to heal for NM fights with RDM, I know exactly of what you speek. I spent the whole time just casting Cure 4 over and over again and if it wasn't for Atma of Allure for major enm-, I would have been top of the hate list pretty quickly.


So it wasn't hypothetical. I was ranted on for using allure. An Atma with superior MND and superior -enm in a healing role.


This conversation left your mundane one-time scenario and became a discussion on proper healing atma/gear when you stated that Allure+Refresh/MND gear was one of the best healing atmas, without clarifying that "one of the best" actually meant, "one of the best of my available atmas."
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#56 Feb 15 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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Silly me reading a thread on the Rng forum titled "Rng 2011" and expecting it to be about rng. The job is so forgotten these days that even our forum is doing other jobs.
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#57 Feb 15 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Default
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Same argument, different circumstance.


Well if someone had access to a Denali but didn't have a W. Turban yet then it would be the same argument. If they had both and were using the Denali thats a different argument.
No, it's the same argument because both Walahra Turban and some of the other atmas I mentioned are stupid easy to get. Not having them is laziness.

tertoonetwothreefour wrote:
This conversation left your mundane one-time scenario and became a discussion on proper healing atma/gear when you stated that Allure+Refresh/MND gear was one of the best healing atmas, without clarifying that "one of the best" actually meant, "one of the best of my available atmas."
This.
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#58 Feb 16 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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No, it's the same argument because both Walahra Turban and some of the other atmas I mentioned are stupid easy to get. Not having them is laziness.


It's lazy to prioritize other things over healing atma for RDM, a job I rarely play? Hmmm. How do you figure that? While I'm busy trying to get my Aby wins, Caturae finished, +1 seals, +2 items, magian trial weapons, helping LS mates with their important things, I'm somehow lazy if I don't rush out and immediately get the atma that will make my RDM a better healer.
TBH,the only thing that will make my RDM a better healer is freaking Cure V (hear that SE).
The problem is not laziness but time limited play and other priorities.

Quote:
Itemized list of why we are still on this subject:

-Your RDM first post, we actually let slide. I read and did not care about that one time you healed a MNK. Noodles made a minor, non flamatory aside about how the -Enmity on Allure might be overkill if you have a half decent cure set.

-In response, you stated that you had "good gear" to wear, whch turned out to include marginally beneficial Refresh and MND gear. You also state that there aren't that many other healer's atmas out there. MM, Harmony, Ambition, Full Moon, Rescuer, Apoc, Stormbird called, wanted to know wruuuuu.

-It is not until your fourth response in the exchange that you clarify your atma situation as being limited. This is practically a bait and switch, the audience was made to assume you went with Allure for objective reasons, which is obviously a dubious prospect, as opposed to your subjective reasons, which are completely valid and everyone gets without your self righteous lecture on RL:FFXI balance.

-Then you passive aggressively completed the bait and switch, hinting that I am irresponsible in how I handle my life because I joined enough shout groups to get Apoc. You then restate your scenario, explaining how when you cure a tank, you cure it. way2b.


As for your most recent attempt to justify your argument which we already understand and accept, no matter how circuitously and poorly presented it may have been:


I will admit to leading a fairly circuitous rambling argumentative thread and not being terribly clear.
To restate: It's not fun Cure IVing a MNK with 4k HP. No matter what your atma, you spend a lot of time just casting Cure IV over and over again. That can generate a lot of hate. Having -enm is helpful. On my RDM I used atma of MM and Allure to cap -enm because I don't have a ton of -enm gear and I don't have a lot of great mage atma. I was appreciative of the capped -enm those atma provided the one time I had to spam Cure IV a monk tank. When I have completed my wish list for RNG and COR, I will definitely need to get some better curing atma and gear for RDM (although I have some other needs for RDM like Atmas of Apocalypse and Beyond, +1 seals, +2 items, magian swords and staves).

Hope that clarifies my position and I didn't really take offense until personal attacks like "lazy" and "irresponsible" came out. None of you know me and know what my RL schedule is. You don't know how my LS runs and what priorities we have. For me the game is escapism from a challenging 60 hr a week job. I whittle away at my goals at the pace I can provide. I'm sure its slow for many of you, but its no reason to make personal judgements about my character.


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#59 Feb 16 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Lokithor wrote:
Silly me reading a thread on the Rng forum titled "Rng 2011" and expecting it to be about rng. The job is so forgotten these days that even our forum is doing other jobs.
Yeah, we had a derail. We noticed. This is Alla, and **** happens. You wasting a post to point out the obvious isn't any better.
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#60 Feb 16 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
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Dartagnann wrote:
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No, it's the same argument because both Walahra Turban and some of the other atmas I mentioned are stupid easy to get. Not having them is laziness.


It's lazy to prioritize other things over healing atma for RDM, a job I rarely play?
Yes, it is laziness because all of that stuff can be done by shouting to set up your own runs. If you still need it it's because you're waiting for someone else to shout and set that **** up for you and not doing it yourself.
Any time you are sitting in jeuno waiting for a shout you want, you could also be doing other things too.
Not only is it laziness but it's supidity too: Why do the long and hard stuff first then leave the easy upgrades till last? Use your brain and get the **** easy stuff out the way first and then focus on the longer or more difficult stuff.

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 2:58am by Noodles
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ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
#61 Feb 17 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I like that Allure is considered a bad atma because you can get -enmity from gear, and yet Apoc is good because you can get reraise without having to be bothered to cast a spell you probably get from your subjob, or from a 5 CP scroll or 20k earring.
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#62 Feb 17 2011 at 4:01 AM Rating: Default
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NotJim wrote:
I like that Allure is considered a bad atma because you can get -enmity from gear, and yet Apoc is good because you can get reraise without having to be bothered to cast a spell you probably get from your subjob, or from a 5 CP scroll or 20k earring.
Because Atma of Apocalypse doesn't have 15% Triple Attack on it.

Edit: Oh wait, it does.

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 10:01am by Noodles
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ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
#63 Feb 17 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, it is laziness because all of that stuff can be done by shouting to set up your own runs. If you still need it it's because you're waiting for someone else to shout and set that sh*t up for you and not doing it yourself.
Any time you are sitting in jeuno waiting for a shout you want, you could also be doing other things too.
Not only is it laziness but it's supidity too: Why do the long and hard stuff first then leave the easy upgrades till last? Use your brain and get the **** easy stuff out the way first and then focus on the longer or more difficult stuff.


So I'm lazy because I would rather do runs with my LS mates than ignore their needs as well and just get stuff done on my own? Who are you people. This game is supposed to be about social times and fun. It's not a race to get stuff done faster than other people. There's no reward. I'm not being paid and neither are you. The term lazy should never come up in a videogame fictitious world. Its borderline ludicrous.

It's not like I'm sitting in Jeuno waiting for someone to shout ( not that I ever see people shouting much for things I need). I'm joining LS events and when i'm not, I'm either not on or working on seals either by questing or forming LS groups to kill NM's. Or levelling subs or working on magian trials or farming my tier IV scrolls or levelling some crafts or any countless things. Why should my priority be to go get an atma from Grauberg that would hardly make a difference in my day to day play? Sure its easy. So are plenty of quests I haven't got around to, most of which are more relevant than that one. I've played main healer on RDM once since Abyssea came out and don't foresee doing it again for a long time. I don't have WHM. Cure potency atmas are way down the list in priorities, no matter how easy.
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#64 Feb 17 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
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Dartagnann wrote:
So I'm lazy because I would rather do runs with my LS mates than ignore their needs as well and just get stuff done on my own?
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were in a linkshell that had events going on during 100% of your playtime. It's obviously going well for you though as you still need zone bosses and seals, as you earlier stated.

You say "I'm doing other stuff like magian trials". That's exactly my earlier point: why spend all your time doing long or hard upgrades first when there is easier stuff you can get quickly first?

If you can't be lazy in a video game then how do you describe someone who sits in jeuno and shouts "what does XYZ atma do?" or "what mob drops ABC seals?" instead of taking a moment to type it into wikipedia. How do you describe someone who decided to AFK in a abyssea exp alliance to go watch TV instead of fighting the mobs and carrying his weight? Just because it's a game does nto mean suddenly all your actions are never lazy.

Also, in the time you've spent reading this topic and replying to me, you could have easilly gone and gotten it. Each time you replied you could have done a Dom OP.

Edit: Oh, and for the record, I don't have Harmony either. But I'm well aware of it, I just haven't been bothered thus far to go get it. I'm just being lazy, and I'm happy to admit it. People need to learn to accept their shortcomings and just get on with life instead of trying too hard to justify everything. Get off the defensive and just accept it.

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 5:44pm by Noodles
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ArsDraconis wrote:
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#65 Feb 17 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Have fun triple missing on your RDM that's main healing. Great atma for a melee sure, don't get me wrong, but we're talking about RDM healer atmas.
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#66 Feb 17 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were in a linkshell that had events going on during 100% of your playtime. It's obviously going well for you though as you still need zone bosses and seals, as you earlier stated.


We still do old content so sue us. Abyssea is twice a week and I can't always make it due to RL commmitments.

Quote:
You say "I'm doing other stuff like magian trials". That's exactly my earlier point: why spend all your time doing long or hard upgrades first when there is easier stuff you can get quickly first?


Because the long things are more important and the sooner I get them done the better. Doing easy stuff for something I almost never do seems silly, but I guess you don't see it that way.

Quote:
If you can't be lazy in a video game then how do you describe someone who sits in jeuno and shouts "what does XYZ atma do?" or "what mob drops ABC seals?" instead of taking a moment to type it into wikipedia. How do you describe someone who decided to AFK in a abyssea exp alliance to go watch TV instead of fighting the mobs and carrying his weight? Just because it's a game does nto mean suddenly all your actions are never lazy.


PLaying a videogame in first place is being lazy. I should be out hustling my **** to get further ahead in life. But I play because it relaxes me after a stressful day of work. Treating my playtime like a job is the last thing I want to do. DOes that make me lazy? Well maybe in some bizarro world where videogame accomplishments have RL value.

Quote:
Also, in the time you've spent reading this topic and replying to me, you could have easilly gone and gotten it. Each time you replied you could have done a Dom OP.


No because I'm at work waiting for my next patient to show up.

Quote:
Oh, and for the record, I don't have Harmony either. But I'm well aware of it, I just haven't been bothered thus far to go get it. I'm just being lazy, and I'm happy to admit it. People need to learn to accept their shortcomings and just get on with life instead of trying too hard to justify everything. Get off the defensive and just accept it.


Lol. well there you have it. Pots calling kettles black and all that. Fine I admit to laziness and irresponsibility in a videogame. And I just don't give a **** because its a videogame. I thought the attack was at my personality in general. But if you were only insinuating in-game laziness, then I take no offense. I call it different priorities personally. Laziness would be if it was necessary and I had time to do it and still didn't go out and get it. TO me, that's being lazy. But Harmony is a somewhat useful atma that is far down my priority list as it is obviously to you as well.
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#67 Feb 18 2011 at 4:50 AM Rating: Decent
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NotJim wrote:
Have fun triple missing on your RDM that's main healing. Great atma for a melee sure, don't get me wrong, but we're talking about RDM healer atmas.
Wait what? Your comment abotu apocalypse was regarding rdm? What gimp *** rdms use apocalypse?

When you brought it up I was under the assumption that you were making a (frankly terrible) comparison and were stating melees only use it for reraise, as melees are the only ones who use it at all. Or who should anyway.
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ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
#68 Feb 18 2011 at 4:53 AM Rating: Default
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Dartagnann wrote:
Fine I admit to laziness and irresponsibility in a videogame. And I just don't give a **** because its a videogame.
That's literally what I was getting at. I don't care if you're lazy or not, but just don't deny it.

Also how can you say In-game accomplishments have no RL value? Does it make you happy achieving something in the game? If not then why do you play it? If so then do you not view your own personal happy experiance as being anything of value at all? Do you not value enjoyment?
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ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
#69 Feb 18 2011 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, was referring to this:

tertoonetwothreefour wrote:
Quote:
The fact is, I don't have any better Atma for that 3rd slot.


It's borderline irresponsible to go to an NM fight and not use Apoc. Yeah, sh*t isn't supposed to hit the fan. But when it does, would you prefer to homepoint and make your friends zombie kite it, or get back up and keep on tickin?

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#70 Feb 19 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
I most value the fact that with apoc, getting spawnkilled upon accepting your RR doesn't mean you're down and out. After all, if hate is crazy enough to get a back liner killed, chances are it's crazy enough to do it again!
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#71 Feb 19 2011 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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That's literally what I was getting at. I don't care if you're lazy or not, but just don't deny it.


Well I don't deny it in terms of video game play. But you never qualified your "lazy" remark to only mean within FFXI. I took this to be a slur suggesting in general I was a lazy person. That was offensive. If you spent a day with me at work you'd think anything but.

And yes I get enjoyment out of the game but that only has modest value in RL. Leisure time relaxation is important but not as much as my career, family, hearth and home. And FFXI doesn't rank higher than many of my other leisure pursuits. and certainly if I were to treat the game as "work" as you seem to suggest, it would be the first thing I stopped doing in my spare time.



Edited, Feb 19th 2011 4:31pm by Dartagnann
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