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The Definitive Guide to Store TP for Ranged WeaponsFollow

#1 Jul 12 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I got this idea from an old post in the KI RNG forum, but I thought I'd flesh it out. So here you go.... the definitive Store TP guide for ranged weapons:

Thresholds for x-hit build

8-hit: 12.5 TP/hit
7-hit: 14.3 TP/hit
6-hit: 16.7 TP/hit
5-hit: 20.0 TP/hit
4-hit: 25.0 TP/hit
3-hit: 33.4 TP/hit


Bow (with 90 delay arrows)

490 delay bow: 14.8 base TP / 15.0 base TP with 120 delay PPA
6-hit: STP+13 / STP+12 for PPA WS
5-hit: STP+36 / STP+34 for PPA WS
4-hit: STP+69 / STP+67 for PPA WS

524 delay bow: 15.1 base TP / 15.2 base TP with 120 delay PPA
6-hit: STP+11 / STP+10 for PPA WS
5-hit: STP+33 / STP+32 for PPA WS
4-hit: STP+66 / STP+65 for PPA WS

540 delay bow: 15.2 base TP / 15.4 base TP with 120 delay PPA
6-hit: STP+10 / STP+9 for PPA WS
5-hit: STP+32 / STP+30 for PPA WS
4-hit: STP+65 / STP+63 for PPA WS

600 delay bow: 15.6 base TP / 15.9 base TP with 120 delay PPA
6-hit: STP+8 / STP+6 for PPA WS
5-hit: STP+29 / STP+26 for PPA WS
4-hit: STP+61 / STP+58 for PPA WS


Gun (with 240 delay bullets)

480 delay gun: 15.9 base TP
6-hit: STP+6
5-hit: STP+26
4-hit: STP+58

582 delay gun: 16.6 base TP
6-hit: STP+1
5-hit: STP+21
4-hit: STP+51

600 delay gun: 16.8 base TP
5-hit: STP+20
4-hit: STP+49

640 delay gun: 17.1 base TP
5-hit: STP+17
4-hit: STP+47

660 delay gun: 17.2 base TP
5-hit: STP+17
4-hit: STP+46


Crossbow (with 192 delay bolts)

280 delay crossbow: 12.6 base TP / 10.7 base TP with 140 delay GMB
7-hit: STP+14 / STP+34 for GMB WS
6-hit: STP+33 / STP+57 for GMB WS
5-hit: STP+59 / STP+87 for GMB WS

288 delay crossbow: 13.0 base TP / 10.9 base TP with 140 delay GMB
7-hit: STP+10 / STP+32 for GMB WS
6-hit: STP+29 / STP+54 for GMB WS
5-hit: STP+54 / STP+84 for GMB WS

432 delay crossbow: 15.2 base TP / 14.8 base TP with 140 delay GMB
6-hit: STP+10 / STP+13 for GMB WS
5-hit: STP+32 / STP+36 for GMB WS
4-hit: STP+65 / STP+69 for GMB WS


Cannon (any ammo is over 999 delay TP cap)
Any cannon/shell: 17.9 base TP
5-hit: STP+12
4-hit: STP+40
3-hit: STP+87

Questions and comments welcome.
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#2 Jul 12 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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(reserved for further expansion)
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#3 Jul 13 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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First in Epic RNG thread!
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#4 Jul 13 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Change PPA and GMB to CCA and IMB to get with the times (altough arguably they should be removed as anyone that wastes his double shot timer for an unlimited shot CCA or IMB WS is truly mad)

And /SAM at 40 still just gives us 15 STP am I correct?
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#5 Jul 14 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Very nice, that seems to cover most of the common stuff quite well. If you were inclined to add more combinations, I would suggest 120 delay arrows (for everything) and 360 delay bows, even if most of those items are largely inferior from a RNG's point of view. I would also suggest bolts with 240 delay and crossbows with 144 and 130 delay. This would cover a holy/bloody/trueflight spamfest (which may or may not be a good idea, but hey).

Also, I'd leave the GMB/PPA/equivalents in to cover level synced situations, even though I don't really see a lot of people jumping to make a store TP level sync build.

Edited, Jul 14th 2010 11:01am by VxSote
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#6 Jul 14 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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VxSote wrote:
Very nice, that seems to cover most of the common stuff quite well. If you were inclined to add more combinations, I would suggest 120 delay arrows (for everything) and 360 delay bows, even if most of those items are largely inferior from a RNG's point of view.

If you want the numbers for 120 delay arrows, just use the PPA calculations (PPA is 120 delay).

I can't think of a single situation in which someone would be using a 360 delay bow to TP with, but I might do another set of calculations for 120 delay bow, 270 delay gun, 130 delay xbow, and 144 delay xbow. If I do, I'll probably throw 360 delay bow in there, as well.

240/288 delay bolts (bloody/sleep) throw a bit of a monkey wrench in, but I'll consider it.
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#7 Jul 14 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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redvenomweb wrote:
If you want the numbers for 120 delay arrows, just use the PPA calculations (PPA is 120 delay).

Ah, I assumed your PPA calc was for 120 delay on the first shot (WS), followed by shooting 90 delay arrows for the remainder of the shots, and keeping a constant amount of STP on the entire time. But I didn't actually try to check your calculations... is that not what you have here?
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Another Look at Conserve MP
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#8 Jul 14 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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VxSote wrote:
Ah, I assumed your PPA calc was for 120 delay on the first shot (WS), followed by shooting 90 delay arrows for the remainder of the shots, and keeping a constant amount of STP on the entire time. But I didn't actually try to check your calculations... is that not what you have here?

No. The STP number for PPA is the amount of STP that you need to make PPA reach the necessary TP/hit (14.3, 16.7, 20.0, etc) for that particular x-hit build.

So that value will work perfectly fine for fulltiming 120 delay arrows.
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#9 Jul 15 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
rvw wrote:
So that value will work perfectly fine for fulltiming 120 delay arrows.


Fulltiming PPA involves waiting a week between shots, no? Is there a new 120 delay arrow I should be aware of?
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#10 Jul 15 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wooden Arrow, Ice Arrow, Marid Arrow, etc. Nothing relevant.
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#11 Jul 23 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quite outstanding post! A missing aspect is the gear itself, which I hope to introduce and illuminate which of your builds should have a one-line through (showing it's possibility but no current availability of gear to pull it off), and which (Store TP gear-set) is very possible.

Weapons: Staff: Mekki Shaki 5 (5max)
Ranged weapons: none
Head: cobra cap 2 (2max)
Body: hizaku hara-ate 1, Cobra harness 6 (6max)
Neck: Haraldrs mufflers 1, chiv chain 1, almah torque 2 (2max)
Earrings: brutal 1 (1max)
Hands: cobra mittens 3 (3max)
Waist: katana obi 1, goading belt 5 (5max)
Legs: cobra 3, enkidus 5, skadi 7 (7max)
Feet: hizaku sune-ate 1, cobra leggings 4 (4max)
Back: Bushido Cape 1, Fourth Mantle 2 (2max for slot)
Rings: ecphoria 1, rajas 5 (6max for these 2 slots)

i can't add with efficiency but this doesn't seem like +100 is even possible for rng! Let's add: 5+0+2+6+2+1+3+5+7+4+2+6 = .... 42! is the answer. I might add...this one-line's a chunk of the above "Store TP" builds.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2010 1:19pm by Shannonrunner
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#12 Jul 24 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Shannonrunner wrote:
i can't add with efficiency but this doesn't seem like +100 is even possible for rng!


OK, am i reading this right as the most sTP a ranger can wear? if so you really need to do more looking at the new 76-80 gear. not to mention you're missing key sub-75 items as well(rose strap)

most rng can wear:
weapon: mekki shakki(5)
sub: rose strap(4)
ranged: TOTM sTP(8)
ammo: none
head: Brisk mask(4)
neck: almah torque(2)
ears: brutal(1)
body: loki's kaftan(7)
hands: Gules mittens+1(3)
ring: hoard(4)
ring: rajas(5)
back: tactical mantle(6)
waist: goading(5)
legs: skadi(7)
feet: gules+1(4)

so max from gear is 65, /sam max is 80, /sam + "samurai roll average" is 110*, /sam+ "samurai roll max" is 130.

now, under NO circumstances would I recommend the above gear set vs anything that actually matters, your racc would be sorry. but that only eliminates 5-hits on fast xbows(280/288 delay) and 3-hit cannons, and only if you don't have a cor


as for a gear set that actually makes sense to use? well i'm planning on using these 5-hit bow setups(80 rng/sam only):

Tp set
Weapon skill set

what you'll immediately notice is that, as far as sTP is concerned, not a lot changes in those two builds.

this is a major consideration, 90% of sTP gear for ranger will hurt per-shot(per-ws) damage. you want to achieve your x-hit with as few gear swaps as possible. and, if possible, you want to leave head and body alone(as our primary snapshot slots)

in my two builds I go from 6-hit to 5-hit at a cost of -2 ratt -5 racc only during tp phase(remember our tp shot are MORE accurate than a 100% slugwinder) and I do so without any extravagant rare/ex gear(looking at you skadi pants)

this only works with the sTP sparrowhawk, its delay and native sTP put it in a unique slot as far as x-hit builds, other bows are either lacking the native tp return(siege, most magians**) or too fast(vali) and ***** w/ the sTP gear needs requiring dipping into slots better left alone(brisk mask/loki kaftan), getting gear with significant penalties(hoard ring/rest of gules set) or getting rare/ex gear(tactical mantle/skadi legs)

really, the first question you have to ask when starting sTP talk, is what bow you're using and second is what gear slot HAS to be free for you to use. example: if a 5-hit required me to swap body slots, I wouldn't have a 5-hit. loki's kaftan is a sweet piece of gear(long term I want it for ws swap/town), but I love my snapshot for tp.

*this assumes your cor is smartly doubling up on anything not a 2, accounts for 6>6 busting, and assumes your cor is playing conservative and NOT doubling up on 7+...ymmv

** stp magian actually returns more tp/shot than a slower(540) non-stp bow


Edited, Jul 24th 2010 6:18pm by sscearcev
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#13 Jul 24 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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side note. anyone notice that the max a ranger can gear is also exactly the amount needed to 4-hit a standard delay bow(540+90) or to 4-hit o-bow/darksteel without /sam? i smell acutal planning on SE's part... we'll see if next update increases our max or just makes the max set more viable--dropping things like hoard ring or gules gear that don't just not help but instead hurt performance.
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#14 Aug 10 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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I've used this a couple times since it dropped to the second page so.....to the top it goes!
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