Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Magian GunFollow

#1 Mar 24 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,126 posts
#@$# you SE, I'm not a COR, I'm a ranger. Give me a gun I can actually use not this trash that your trying to blur rng and cor jobs together with.

Sidenote ~ Grats to all bow rangers, double attack and some of those combos look sick!

Meh o well, Katana =or= Scyth -> Plm -> Gswd for me...
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#2 Mar 24 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,793 posts
Out of interest, what, if any, weapons should I aim for, bearing in mind my RNG uses either NQ or HQ hellfire depending on if my friend is using his, or Sbow.
____________________________
Proud PUP of Phoenix.
Jobs: PUP COR RNG BLM NIN WHM 90
Member of Finale.
My Blog
#3 Mar 24 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
****
4,126 posts
Does an acid bolt stick to the mob? If yes Obow, if not just pick whichever you like the most and try to perform well.
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#4 Mar 24 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
***
1,793 posts
Doesn't answer my question on if a Magian weapon beats Sbow for archery or NQ/HQ hellfire for marks

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 9:47pm by MagingMartin
____________________________
Proud PUP of Phoenix.
Jobs: PUP COR RNG BLM NIN WHM 90
Member of Finale.
My Blog
#5 Mar 24 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
*
55 posts
does magian bow beat selene's?

imo yes.

option:
dmg 75 delay 524 ratk+12 str+4

#6 Mar 24 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
***
1,793 posts
Yeah, I'd just taken a look at that bow just now, having to fight 100 EP+ crawlers on RNG will suck though...

I'll try to drag a friend along.

____________________________
Proud PUP of Phoenix.
Jobs: PUP COR RNG BLM NIN WHM 90
Member of Finale.
My Blog
#7 Mar 24 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,126 posts
I personally don't know anyone of that has completed theirs yet, so can't really comment because I'm not going to do the math. ;p
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#8 Mar 25 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
**
502 posts
Magnatus (Gun) can have Dmg: 46, Delay 600. Probably not much different from a Hellfire.

However... Presumably these weapons will be further upgradeable when the level cap is raised. Hellfire? Maybe not so much.
#9 Mar 25 2010 at 4:51 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Yeah so far I'm very disapointed with Magian gun. I'm regular user of Hellfire +1 with DMG +1 and +1 lolDEX. At this point its not worth it to me to bother. 3 more bas damage but lose +7 racc and +17 ratt? No Thanks!

Geuss I'll have to work on Dagger for me THF time to replace or move X's knife to off hand lol
#10 Mar 25 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
The Magian guns aren't even that great for COR.

The Magnatus is a great QD gun. 46 dmg will outdo corsair's +1 quite handily and may actually upstage death penalty.

But what COR wants an occ fires twice gun when you are using steel bullets at 200 gil a shot?
And the 4 STR 12 Att gun still doesn't beat a martial gun for accuracy on slug or power on detonator. And COR's need all the accuracy they can get on slug.
Personally an Occ attacks twice dagger with a good damage rating would have been the best option for COR. Most of us melee for TP due to speed of multihit weapons and availability of haste gear. Shooting for TP is a rare thing and the effort of getting multihit guns won't be worth it. You could gain 10 Joytoys in the time it will take to complete one multihit weapon through the Magian quests.

For RNG, I'm just going to do the Bow with 4 STR and 12 RATT since it shold be an upgrade over SBow with the higher damage rating, 2 extra STR and only sl less RATT at New Moon. Won't be as accurate but I'm not hurting for RACC anymore on RNG.
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#11 Mar 25 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,126 posts
Quote:
But what COR wants an occ fires twice gun when you are using steel bullets at 200 gil a shot?


You don't know how much I hate this excuse, don't level the job if you can't afford it. Bullets are cheaper than ever, I remember paying nearly 1m gil for 12 stacks of silver bullets!

Worst arguement in the history of Rng, Cor, Nin.
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#12 Mar 25 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Quote:
Quote:
But what COR wants an occ fires twice gun when you are using steel bullets at 200 gil a shot?


You don't know how much I hate this excuse, don't level the job if you can't afford it. Bullets are cheaper than ever, I remember paying nearly 1m gil for 12 stacks of silver bullets!

Worst arguement in the history of Rng, Cor, Nin.




QFT


Level you skills, make your bullets, sell your excess. Stop Whining.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 3:05pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#13 Mar 25 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
Quote:

You don't know how much I hate this excuse, don't level the job if you can't afford it. Bullets are cheaper than ever, I remember paying nearly 1m gil for 12 stacks of silver bullets!


You can quote that attitude all you want but the fact is, at least on Ifrit, 50-70% of COR's play the job /WHM and 90% of JP COR's are COR/WHM. There is a reason and that is for the amount of damage we do the costs are too high.

I'd have no problem with 200 gil per shot if the bullet did twice as much damage as a 100 gil/shot silver bullet. But it does less damage. And a COR can't even equip the top damage gun in the game. I know RNG's have always been "don't play if you can't pay". And that's a big reason there are few RNG's out there. People can do equivalent damage for cheaper. And COR can't even do equivalent damage to a top tier DD and still have high costs.

And is telling potential COR's to not play the job if you find the costs offensive really that a smart attitude? Every party will benefit from support jobs and COR is one of the best. You should be encouraging more people to play the job rather than taking some weird high road that only a few residual dedicated rangers seem to hang out on.

This forum is mostly dead, the RNG job is mostly dead and it is mostly the fact that it costs too much for what it does. If you don't see that then you aren't playing the same game I am.

Anyway, I've been down this argumentative track with some of you before. It is possible to love some or near all of a job and not like some other aspects. i love being a COR and RNG. I love ranged attacks. I love rolling die. I love QD. I don't like having to spend so much gil on consumables, but I do so for the love of the game. I don't want to have to spend more to spam steel bullets on a job that can't even use silver freaking bullets. Let alone embark on a quest line that will take me a whole dedicated LS worth of effort to get done. I'm perfectly happy with multihit weapons and reserving steel bullets for slug shot and barrage.

Of course if someone gifted me said gun, I'd use it. But I'm not going to kill myself over a marginal upgrade to martial gun.
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#14 Mar 26 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,126 posts
***** it give COR culverin and cannon shells and we just /delete RNG completely!

allright!
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#15 Mar 26 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Quote:
This forum is mostly dead, the RNG job is mostly dead and it is mostly the fact that it costs too much for what it does. If you don't see that then you aren't playing the same game I am.


apparently we are in all actuality, playing completely different games. I see more and more and more Rng's every friggin day. And if Rng becomes a bandwagon job again... i swear... i'll level sam.

Brd gets to use some really AWESOME weapons and DD it up with the best of them...

Dude, get real. Cor is a support job, it's meant to buff himself and the people around him, debuff mobs and support the pt. Rng is meant to destroy the things it fires arrows at and track down mobs on the map. Naturally, Rng gets the highest dmg guns and bow and xbows. you're a friggin brd with a higher damage output and less songs.

I agree with DoA, just let Cor use everything, in fact, let cor use all weapons, with an A- skill and just use cors to replace all dd jobs.


You knew the costs when you signed up for the job. Quit ******** My job is to shoot as much money as i possibly can, as fast as i can (or as smartly: Re..Odin), at a target in the hopes that it dies and gives me something even more groovey so that i can then shoot MORE money at MORE targets.



Edited, Mar 26th 2010 2:53pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#16 Mar 26 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
4,681 posts
Quote:
But what COR wants an occ fires twice gun when you are using steel bullets at 200 gil a shot?
Quote:
Most of us melee for TP due to speed of multihit weapons and availability of haste gear.
It seems to me you've completely missed the point of this gun, IF the occasional attacks twice procs on WS.

1) COR still melees for TP.
2) COR fires slugshot.
3) Slugshot now may hit for twice as much damage.

With all this debate about paying to play, the preceding seems to have been lost. You AREN'T shooting for TP, you ARE shooting for WS. The gun MAY have a good chance of doubling your Slugshot damage for COR, and the costs for TP aren't changed.

Isn't time to stop arguing costs, (which are MUCH lower once a COR can melee for TP) and actually look in to how this occasionally fires twice works?

Quote:
This forum is mostly dead, the RNG job is mostly dead and it is mostly the fact that it costs too much for what it does. If you don't see that then you aren't playing the same game I am.
This forum may be dead; this is primarily due to the fact that not much has changed about the job. Before this recent update, our best weapons have been the same as they have been for years. Our best gear hasn't changed. By in large RNG tactics have seen little change.

RNG job isn't dead, it's just the same as ever. Situationally one of the best physical DDs (kited mobs), or just another DD in other situations. RNG hasn't been THE best DD in years, but it's still far from dead.

I say this because I AM playing the same game as you. But it is quite possible that we don't fight the same mobs, because if you did then you'd realize RNG still has it's place.
____________________________
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#17Aryden, Posted: Mar 26 2010 at 3:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) *cheers Cyth on*
#18 Mar 26 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,596 posts
Back on topic,

Just how comparable are HF+1 and Magnatus? I assume that the Dmg39 Dragonmaw is better DoT assuming a Joytoy DA rate despite the costs?
____________________________
FFXI: Ragnus Rondain of Phoenix Nin 75,Whm 75,Rng 43 (Retired 5/21/10)
FFXIV: Noemi Rondain of Saronia Arc/Mnr/Pug (On hold until the game stops sucking)
WoW: Ishkabibble of Antonidas Orcish Hunter of 17th level (Kinda active)

Allakhazam's Rating System: Simplified

If you post with the majority opinion: Rate Up
If you post against the majority opinion: Rate Down
If you post against the majority opinion but make a good argument: Slight Rate Down
#19 Mar 26 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
see below: having to make alot of assumptions to work out the math, but maybe, just maybe its somewhat correct lol.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 7:37pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#20 Mar 26 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
OK, my math and what not will probably be wrong but here goes. I'm using 1000 base ranged attacks. using: http://ffxi.killvoid.com/page.php?al=dcalc

Assuming:
Greater Colibri (Level 81: Defense 322, Evasion 334, VIT 67, AGI 67)

Rng: Str 90, agi 100, Ratt 482 (500 w/ HF +1)

see here: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=7&mid=1269442027193428674&page=1&howmany=50#m1269890868192294929

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 3:32pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#21 Mar 26 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
***
1,596 posts
Thanks for the math. I really hope the double attack rates as good as we hope.

Despite all of the above posts I just brought up Magnatus again because theres one Rng in my LS that is convinced that it crushes HF(+1).
____________________________
FFXI: Ragnus Rondain of Phoenix Nin 75,Whm 75,Rng 43 (Retired 5/21/10)
FFXIV: Noemi Rondain of Saronia Arc/Mnr/Pug (On hold until the game stops sucking)
WoW: Ishkabibble of Antonidas Orcish Hunter of 17th level (Kinda active)

Allakhazam's Rating System: Simplified

If you post with the majority opinion: Rate Up
If you post against the majority opinion: Rate Down
If you post against the majority opinion but make a good argument: Slight Rate Down
#22 Mar 26 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
see here: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=7&mid=1269442027193428674&page=1&howmany=50#m1269890868192294929

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 3:31pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#23 Mar 26 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
see here: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=7&mid=1269442027193428674&page=1&howmany=50#m1269890868192294929

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 3:31pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#24 Mar 26 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
****
5,159 posts
Dartagnann wrote:
The Magian guns aren't even that great for COR.

Dragonmaw is the best ranged TP gun COR can use, assuming a 45% DA rate, and Magnatus is the best QD-only gun available if you by chance don't have over 100m.

I don't think either will trump Martial during melee TP, unless they get a further boost in the future.. I can't imagine the DA will proc on Slug or Det; that would be the only possibility atm.
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#25 Mar 27 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
****
4,126 posts
Quote:
HF +1:
Total ranged damage: 99,750 ~ 106,400
Total ws damage: 124,545 ~ 132,667

Dragonmaw:
Total ranged damage: 133,569 ~ 143,208
Total ws damage: 167,040 ~ 179,046



Assuming the DA stays true to 45% we just go out RNG'd by COR.

/wrists lol


On a positive note, parsed @16.97% of the total damage in Dynamis last night.
____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#26 Mar 27 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
midguardian wrote:
Magnatus (Gun) can have Dmg: 46, Delay 600. Probably not much different from a Hellfire.

However... Presumably these weapons will be further upgradeable when the level cap is raised. Hellfire? Maybe not so much.


Hellfire +1 has RACC+7 and RATT+17 and can take a RATT+10 evolith though.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#27 Mar 28 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
****
7,094 posts
Deadonarrival wrote:
Assuming the DA stays true to 45% we just go out RNG'd by COR.

/wrists lol

COR base Marks skill is 19 points lower than RNG, their ammo has 11 less DMG, they can't get Snapshot merits, and (for now) they can't use Velocity Shot.

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 11:43pm by redvenomweb
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#28 Mar 28 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
Ok, I've tried for 2 days to figure you out doa, what exactly is the issue here? do you not think the magian guns are strong enough? there are numbers saying its comparable to possibly better than HF+1 the current best non-relic.

are you upset cor is on it? you didn't really think they'd put in 2 guns and a bow?, **** I'm surprised there was both a gun and a bow usable by rangers, I would not have put them past just doing a bow for rng and making the gun cor only.

and this:
Quote:
Assuming the DA stays true to 45% we just go out RNG'd by COR.

is just completely confusing, how can we be "out RNG'd" by a job with less skill AND weaker ammo using a weapon we can use to?

Not to mention most cors won't even bother with the "occ. attacks twice" guns if testing finds out it works just like joy-toy i.e. doesn't double attack on WS. cors by and large don't shoot for tp, a double attacking gun is, in terms of finances and quite often efficiency, a poor choice.

so could you please enlighten me as to your issue with the magian trials for marksmanship, you seem awfully upset and I just can't figure out the reason.
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#29 Mar 28 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Quote:
Quoted Text
So
HF +1 brings you to Ratt 500 and the numbers are as follows:
Per hit dmg: 105~112
WS dmg: 690~735

You know I never try to crunch numbers, I just move gear around according to what I'm doing. But on Colibri with my HF+1 I do not do average numbers like those.

per hit for me is more like 250-400
and ws's are more like 2500-3200

have yet to find a cor that can come close to that and even with the new guns they will not come close. I generaly do 33% of all damage in merits parties cor/dd not cor/nin barely hits 15% new gun may bring them up to 17% in my ls's merit parties. So no worries here.
#30 Mar 28 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,126 posts
Quote:
COR base Marks skill is 19 points lower than RNG, their ammo has 11 less DMG,


Quote:
is just completely confusing, how can we be "out RNG'd" by a job with less skill AND weaker ammo using a weapon we can use to?


19 points of skill and 11 less dmg?? That's a small difference but how close does the addition of Hunter's + Chaos roll close this gap??

Quote:
they can't get Snapshot merits, and (for now) they can't use Velocity Shot.


So we have this advantage until June, then all we have is what Snapshot and Rapid Shot merits??

Quote:
Ok, I've tried for 2 days to figure you out doa, what exactly is the issue here?


My issue is they just gave COR a gun that's better than anything we've had for years besides anni.

I believe they are really blurring the line between COR & RNG and this just pushes even further.

Quote:
do you not think the magian guns are strong enough?


No that's not the issue.

Quote:
there are numbers saying its comparable to possibly better than HF+1 the current best non-relic.

are you upset cor is on it?


Exactly

I don't know if it's just me but they could have solved it by giving them the ultimate QD gun or something, not a ranged weapon that's better than anything we've held for the past 7 years. Yes I have been holding my [Deadonarrival] Hellfire +1 for ~5+ of those.

Quote:
you didn't really think they'd put in 2 guns and a bow?,


Yes, why? They added ~20 weapon possibilities for each weapon as it is, how hard would have it been to make a RNG branch and a COR branch.

Honestly I was expecting to see Bow, Xbow, Gun but I was wrong.

Quote:
**** I'm surprised there was both a gun and a bow usable by rangers


They gave us A- in Marksmanship & A- in Archery it's been that way for years.

Bow has bandwagon for RNG for a long time and it's laughable. Unless these RNG have been rocking Ebow + Kab they've been getting out damaged by Obow/DST rng forever.

Quote:
I would not have put them past just doing a bow for rng and making the gun cor only.


This is exactly what I hoped would have happened, but SE let me down again. =(

That's why I'm off in Inner Horotu camping PLM mobs. :\

Quote:
Not to mention most cors won't even bother with the "occ. attacks twice" guns if testing finds out it works just like joy-toy i.e. doesn't double attack on WS


Really? They have an option of WS -> RA -> RA -> WS assuming they have 45% proc and it's not double damage, who wouldn't want a 3-4 hit build??

cors by and large don't shoot for tp, a double attacking gun is, in terms of finances and quite often efficiency, a poor choice. 


LOL economics??? Don't play the job if your too poor and don't know how to make money in this game. You know the cost of the jobs before playing them, this is one of the worst excuses in FF.

Yes I understand mellee'ing for TP is superior and that I can support this but not cost. I've ****** away more millions in gil on ammo then people have even seen in their FF careers.

Quote:

so could you please enlighten me as to your issue with the magian trials for marksmanship, you seem awfully upset and I just can't figure out the reason.



Please don't take it as a personal attack but yes I am ****** off greatly.

I've been around since 03 before they nerfed RNG initially, I've taken all the ups and downs. I've stuck with this job at the worst and this is the kind of **** they do to make it right?? No not at all they just killed my will to play RNG when a COR can do it the same and buff the rest of the group.

If COR could wear kclub I would sell all my RNG gear and just finish my COR.


/rant off, sorry guys but hey atleast it's something to new to read about it in this dead RNG forum.











____________________________
[99] Smithing [60] Clothcraft [60] Woodworking [60] Leathercraft
[60] Alchemy [60] Cooking [60] Bonecraft [61] Goldsmithing [50] Synergy

#31 Mar 28 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
Quote:
Dragonmaw is the best ranged TP gun COR can use, assuming a 45% DA rate, and Magnatus is the best QD-only gun available if you by chance don't have over 100m.

I don't think either will trump Martial during melee TP, unless they get a further boost in the future.. I can't imagine the DA will proc on Slug or Det; that would be the only possibility atm.


I guess i should have tempered my statement: The OAT magian guns are not that great even for COR, the way I play the job.

I bring COR to Dynamis, Sky gods, Limbus, Meripos, Nyzul, Einherjar. In Dynamis, if I'm in a melee party, I melee for TP and WS with martial. If I'm in the BLM party, I support and QD. In sky Gods I rotate in for buffs and then watch the zerg unless we are short on DD. In Limbus I melee for TP and and WS with Martail. In meripos, I melee for TP and WS with martial unless I'm pulling and then I use a peacemaker and light shot. In Nyzul I melee for TP and WS with martial. In einherjar I sleep adds and mix melee on lesser mobs and shooting on the boss.

So in the vast majority of my COR activities I'm meleeing for TP and WS'ing with martial and only in a few lone instances am I purely QD'ing or shooting at range. So the QD magnatus will get rarely used as would an OAT gun. Sure it would be nice to have them but saying something is the best QD gun is only significant if you do a lot of QD only activities, which I don't.

So yes the new guns are great for COR's that are QDing a lot as their only source of damage or who are ranged attacking. But to be honest, anything that is too nasty to melee is usually too evasive to hit while shooting. So an OAT gun might as well be called an OMT gun (occasionally misses twice).
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#32 Mar 29 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
****
7,094 posts
DOA, put rather bluntly, COR's /ra sucks and they are no threat to RNG at all.

Even a 99COR/RNG with Velocity Shot will likely have 10% less Snapshot, 30-40 less skill, 3 less Accuracy Up traits, and 1-3 less hits on Barrage. This is before considering stuff like gear differences (e.g. silver bullets, osode, hachiryu) and, most importantly, RNG's subjob; if COR is subbing RNG then they will most certainly NOT have a "4-hit build" or anything of the sort.

Citing Hunter's+Chaos when comparing COR to RNG is just as pointless as citing double March when comparing BRD to THF; in the same party, COR would get scraped.
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#33 Mar 29 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Something was bugging the sh*t out of me when i reread the posts, so i went back and recalculated everything. The calculator has a few glitches in it when calculating ranged attacks and i did not include the 25% piercing bonus on birds. Here's the real data, sorry about that guys. And before anyone starts in on me, this is assuming everyone is equal on a 5 hit build.

 
Weapon	      Delay	Delay 	Low	High	WS low	WS Hi	WS# RattLow RattHi     WsLow	WSHi	Atts	DPSLow	DPSHi 
Hellfire +1	640	6.87	223	237	1,325	1,408	190 211,850 225,150	251,750	267,520	1,000	67	72 
Dragonmaw	660	7.00	208	223	1,242	1,327	276 286,520 307,183	342,171	365,589	1,450	90	96 
Magnatus	600	6.62	220	235	1,297	1,386	190 209,000 223,250	246,430	263,340	1,000	69	74 
 
Vali's	        490	5.92	206	218	1032	1383	190 195,700 207,100	196,080	262,770	1,000	66	79 
Astrild	        524	6.13	206	220	1285	1373	190 195,700 209,000	244,150	260,870	1,000	72	77 
Goshawk	        600	6.62	177	190	1142	1221	276 243,818 261,725	314,621	336,386	1,450	84	90 
Gyrfalcon       524	6.13	207	221	1309	1393	190 196,650 209,950	248,710	264,670	1,000	73	77 
														 
O.bow           432	5.55	172	183	1068	1137	190 163,400 173,850     202,920	216,030	1,000	66	70 
 



as we can see, the dragonmaw with 45% double attack would beat the dogsh*t out of the hellfire +1, while the HF +1 and magnatus so very close to each other, that it seems your time may well be better spent farming the 1mil for an HF +1 rather than these retarded upgrade quests.

edited: I added in the top 3 new bows, compared with Valis/E.bow and tossed in o.bow for a baseline helper. All bows were using Kabura and O.bow with DSB.

So the new order is:
DPS: Dragonmaw > Goshawk > Valis bow > Gyrfalcon > Astrild > Magnatus > Hellfire +1 > O.bow

lol i keep thinking of more add in:

Timed 30 mins fight statistics:
 
Hellfire +1    129,033 
Dragonmaw      172,998 
Magnatus       132,342 
 
Vali's         142,910 
Astrild        137,869 
Goshawk        162,673 
Gyrfalcon      139,263 
 
O.bow          126,468 






Edited, Mar 30th 2010 2:03pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#34 Mar 29 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
redvenomweb wrote:
Citing Hunter's+Chaos when comparing COR to RNG is just as pointless as citing double March when comparing BRD to THF; in the same party, COR would get scraped.


its even more wrong than that, a corsair can NOT hit the same acc numbers as a ranger without being in a party with a ranger

19 skill is 17 acc, last 2 traits are 26 acc, a 46 acc hole. they need a hunter's roll 11(+50) just to make up that part, and that's assuming they're subbing ranger, if not they need to make up a 65 acc hole, that takes a ranger in party 11(+65).

you can't say they'll make up some of that acc in gear, there is a grand total of ONE armor/accessory that cor can equip that ranger can not that gives racc, aileron mantle, excluding of course relic/af/af+1.

what does this massive racc penalty mean... it means to be effective at all, they have to sacrifice damage stats in a manner that ranger does not.

I full timed osode for years as many rangers do, do you see competent cor's full timing blue cotehardrie or some similar pure damage no acc piece? I sub sam, use a fire staff, and eat att food on HNMs, most cors wouldn't try that combo in merits, let alone something actually difficult to hit. That is, and really always has been, rangers top benefit.
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#35 Mar 29 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
****
7,094 posts
Aryden wrote:
as we can see, the dragonmaw with 45% double attack would beat the dogsh*t out of the hellfire +1, while the HF +1 and magnatus so very close to each other, that it seems your time may well be better spent farming the 1mil for an HF +1 rather than these retarded upgrade quests.

edited: I added in the top 3 new bows, compared with Valis/E.bow and tossed in o.bow for a baseline helper. All bows were using Kabura and O.bow with DSB.

So the new order is:
DPS: Dragonmaw > Goshawk > Valis bow > Gyrfalcon > Astrild > Magnatus > Hellfire +1 > [b]O.bow[b/]

lol i keep thinking of more add in:

Timed 30 mins fight statistics:
 
Hellfire +1    183,362 
Dragonmaw      247,140 
Magnatus       185,994 
 
Vali's         194,023 
Astrild        189,325 
Goshawk        228,621 
Gyrfalcon      191,239 
 
O.bow          168,110 

When your calculation arrives at the conclusion that O-bow is the worst endgame ranged weapon, something is clearly wrong. I already know for a fact that O-bow's DPS is higher than both HF+1 and E-bow, so how did you arrive at those DPS numbers?
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#36 Mar 29 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
redvenomweb wrote:

When your calculation arrives at the conclusion that O-bow is the worst endgame ranged weapon, something is clearly wrong. I already know for a fact that O-bow's DPS is higher than both HF+1 and E-bow, so how did you arrive at those DPS numbers?


actually that seems about right if you think about it, dps calcs generally don't give O-bow credit for the 2 things that are the key to making it special, acid and holy bolts. If you take out those things o-bow is really just an average weapon:

o-bow+darksteel
104 dmg, 624 delay ratt+18

v-bow+kabura
109 dmg, 580 delay str+3 agi+3 ratt+23 racc+5

-5 dmg, +44 delay -3str -3agi -5ratt -5racc

yep seems like it would be a poor endgame weapon. its saving grace is "type: xbow", which means on non-hnm it's not ratt+18 but rather something like ratt+60 while still having high enough base damage to make the ws non-laughable(which is what kill other crossbows even though in terms of pure dps while tping they are better than o-bow)
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#37 Mar 29 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
****
7,094 posts
sscearcev wrote:
actually that seems about right if you think about it, dps calcs generally don't give O-bow credit for the 2 things that are the key to making it special, acid and holy bolts. If you take out those things o-bow is really just an average weapon:

o-bow+darksteel
104 dmg, 624 delay ratt+18

v-bow+kabura
109 dmg, 580 delay str+3 agi+3 ratt+23 racc+5

-5 dmg, +44 delay -3str -3agi -5ratt -5racc

yep seems like it would be a poor endgame weapon.

Sorry, wrong.

First- STR/AGI/RACC/RATK were not factored into DPS calculations above*.
Second- Presuming 25% Snapshot (15% from V-Shot, 10% from merits):

O-bow/DSB: D104 / ([(432 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.94 DPS
E-bow/kabura: D109 / ([(490 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.60 DPS
HF+1/silver: D123 / ([(640 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.05 DPS

This is nothing new. It has been well-established for years that O-bow is (or was) the highest DPS non-relic ranged weapon in the game when using DSBs; intelligent use of holy bolts pushes O-bow even higher.

So with an obvious fundamental flaw in the basic foundations, I am loathe to take any of the conclusions in this thread at face value.

* I am not saying that STR/RATK (or even AGI/RACC) should not be included in DPS calculations; if you want to dig that deeply, be my guest. What I am saying is that if you aren't including them, there is no f*cking way that O-bow can possibly wind up last on the list in DPS. That's simply absurd.

P.S. Ammo delay does not affect firing speed or DPS one bit; the only impact it has is on TP return, and when it comes to ammo, higher delay = better, full stop.

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 9:44pm by redvenomweb
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#38 Mar 30 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
you can argue all you want, i used this http://killingifrit.com/page.php?al=dcalc as the calculator to derive the Hi/low ratt dmg. Yes str/agi/ratt/ mob defense/mob vit etc were taken into account. This is the reality of the situation. Using the stats: Str 90, Agi 100, Ratt 482, (Greater Colibri stats Level 81: Defense 322, Evasion 334, VIT 67, AGI 67 ). Sorry if this is disconcerting to you, but just taking what the weapon says on it and deriving dmg without even looking at a mob doesnt work. Thats like testing an 8 year old and a 30 year old's IQ and saying the 30 Year old with a juris doctorate, 2 masters degrees and half a mil in the bank is inferior because his IQ is lower. I didnt modify the numbers to suit me, i simply plugged in base stats, gathered the info and posted it. When i actually plugged in my personal stats, it represented exactly my experience with HF +1, V.bow and O.bow.
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#39 Mar 30 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
Thief's Knife
*****
15,049 posts
Aryden wrote:
you can argue all you want, i used this http://killingifrit.com/page.php?al=dcalc as the calculator to derive the Hi/low ratt dmg. Yes str/agi/ratt/ mob defense/mob vit etc were taken into account.


Then your numbers are all wrong because that calculator has always been inaccurate.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#40 Mar 30 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
***
1,996 posts
redvenomweb wrote:


O-bow/DSB: D104 / ([(432 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.94 DPS
E-bow/kabura: D109 / ([(490 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.60 DPS
HF+1/silver: D123 / ([(640 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.05 DPS


P.S. Ammo delay does not affect firing speed or DPS one bit; the only impact it has is on TP return, and when it comes to ammo, higher delay = better, full stop.

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 9:44pm by redvenomweb




This is dead on. Some in this thread are using arrow/bolt/bullet delay to add to the amount of time it takes to shoot. It doesn't.

Also, you can't just pull DPS ratings off wiki without adjusting them for the two constant downtimes in a rangers delay: the free period and the length of time it takes to put away your weapon. This is the 2.85 you see in RVW's above calculation. This amount of time is the same on every weapon.


I'm guessing the '.75' reflects full snapshot merits and gear? Those DPS numbers also dont take into account racc/ratt/str/agi on the weapons, but they should be very very close.




Having said all that, its pretty clear that a gun with 3 less base damage that attacks twice will blow HF out of the water if its a 45% proc unless you are krakening and it cant proc on ws.


Edited, Mar 30th 2010 1:37pm by BarberofSeville

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 1:38pm by BarberofSeville
____________________________


#41 Mar 30 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
****
7,094 posts
Aryden wrote:
you can argue all you want, i used this http://killingifrit.com/page.php?al=dcalc as the calculator to derive the Hi/low ratt dmg. Yes str/agi/ratt/ mob defense/mob vit etc were taken into account. This is the reality of the situation. Using the stats: Str 90, Agi 100, Ratt 482, (Greater Colibri stats Level 81: Defense 322, Evasion 334, VIT 67, AGI 67 ). Sorry if this is disconcerting to you, but just taking what the weapon says on it and deriving dmg without even looking at a mob doesnt work. Thats like testing an 8 year old and a 30 year old's IQ and saying the 30 Year old with a juris doctorate, 2 masters degrees and half a mil in the bank is inferior because his IQ is lower. I didnt modify the numbers to suit me, i simply plugged in base stats, gathered the info and posted it. When i actually plugged in my personal stats, it represented exactly my experience with HF +1, V.bow and O.bow.

Please explain how your experience with HF+1, V-bow, and O-bow results in the following numbers for "delay":

HF+1- 4.84
V-bow- 4.36
O-bow- 4.17

What unit of measurement do these numbers represent? Because they damned sure aren't seconds.

Are these the same experiences that led you to believe that V-bow "fires way more WSes than HF+1" even though HF+1 mathematically generates TP faster?

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 10:50am by redvenomweb
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#42 Mar 30 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Quote:
Also, you can't just pull DPS ratings off wiki without adjusting them for the two constant downtimes in a rangers delay: the free period and the length of time it takes to put away your weapon. This is the 2.85 you see in RVW's above calculation. This amount of time is the same on every weapon.


Yes, thank you, we knew that. It's taken into account in the dps calculations.


Quote:
Then your numbers are all wrong because that calculator has always been inaccurate.


It may be inaccurate, but i have plugged in my own stats, and the numbers were too close to call the equation inaccurate. +/- 1~2 dmg here and there.

Plug in your own stats and tell how bad the variance is please so i can adjust for it.
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#43 Mar 30 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
@#%^ETY @#%^ @#%^ @#%^

There is a reason i said in my original post for people to check my math. I @#%^ing multiplied delays by .30 for snapshot instead of by .70 (accounting for 30% snapshot.)

Give me a few mins to repost.


Done, its reposted with corrected delays (((weapon delay * .70)/110)+2.8)

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 2:06pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#44 Mar 30 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
****
7,094 posts
Aryden wrote:
Yes, thank you, we knew that. It's taken into account in the dps calculations.

Then you did it wrong.

Judging strictly on DMG/delay, O-bow beats HF+1. This has been well-established for a long time. If you add STR/RATK/AGI (and continue to ignore accuracy) then O-bow has RATK+18 and HF+1 has RATK+17, so O-bow's lead should stay the same or increase. Yet in your calculation, HF+1 somehow passes O-bow when RATK is included?

Do explain.

edit: So yeah, it looks like the numbers were messed up. But still, do you see the problem with saying that your "experiences are represented exactly" by a calculation that was including Snapshot+70%? How could your experiences have ever been anything remotely like that?

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 11:10am by redvenomweb
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#45 Mar 30 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
alright so here is what i tried.

I took the calculated delay, the median ratt dmg, median ws dmg over a 30 min based fight, i did NOT include activation of job abilities, barrage, meditate, etc. This is just pure ratt's and ws's.

30 min # of ratts = ((30 min * 60 sec)/calculated delay)*DA multiplier)
DA multiplier = For all weapons excluding Dragonmaw and Goshawk, 1.0. For DM and GH 1.45.

# of ws = (#Ratts * .95)/5
Total Ratt dmg = (#ratts * .95)*median ratt dmg
Total ws dmg = (#ws *.95)*median ws dmg

 
Weapons      #ratts     #ws's     Ratt dmg     Ws Dmg     Total 
Hellfire +1  262        49        57,226       64,600     121,826 
Dragonmaw    373        70        76,333       86,448     162,781 
Magnatus     272        51        58,781       65,857     124,638 
 
Vali's       304        57        61,255       66,290     127,545 
Astrild      293        55        59,374       70,387     129,761 
Goshawk      394        74        68,784       84,103     152,851 
Gyrfalcon    293        55        59,652       71,552     131,204 
 
O.bow        324        61        54,698       64,552     119,250 



I havent skewed any numbers, but this is also NOT my forte. If my calculations are off, help me fix them instead of berating me. I'm still working out how to account for the seconds used for ws's withing the 30 mins, so the numbers will change then as well.
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#46 Mar 30 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Quote:
edit: So yeah, it looks like the numbers were messed up. But still, do you see the problem with saying that your "experiences are represented exactly" by a calculation that was including Snapshot+70%? How could your experiences have ever been anything remotely like that?


No i was referring to the dmg numbers from the calculator itself not the number represented by the calculations posted. They ( calculator's numbers) were very close, but not "dead on".



Quote:
O-bow/DSB: D104 / ([(432 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.94 DPS
E-bow/kabura: D109 / ([(490 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.60 DPS
HF+1/silver: D123 / ([(640 * 0.75) / 110] + 2.85) = 17.05 DPS



Unfortunately you cannot just rely on the dmg and delay for calculating dps with any weapon in this game. You entirely neglect any bonuses that weapon may have over another and therefor neglect the reason to actually use 1 weapon over another weapon. If we went strictly by this method, the Hirenjaku +1 out dps's everything except Fudo, *********** and kikoku. SO why not use a Hirenjaku +1? The Hagun would get destroyed by any Gktn with higher dmg and or str. I understand the flaws in my math, but you have to understand the flaw in the dps calculation youre using.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 3:06pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#47 Mar 30 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
****
7,094 posts
Aryden wrote:
alright so here is what i tried.

I took the calculated delay, the median ratt dmg, median ws dmg over a 30 min based fight, i did NOT include activation of job abilities, barrage, meditate, etc. This is just pure ratt's and ws's.

30 min # of ratts = ((30 min * 60 sec)/calculated delay)*DA multiplier)
DA multiplier = For all weapons excluding Dragonmaw and Goshawk, 1.0. For DM and GH 1.45.

# of ws = (#Ratts * .95)/5
Total Ratt dmg = (#ratts * .95)*median ratt dmg
Total ws dmg = (#ws *.95)*median ws dmg

So here's the next immediate problem:

You are giving all the weapons a 5-hit build, but that's a huge disadvantage to the higher delay weapons (particularly the guns) and a huge advantage to the bows. For example:

HF+1 requires STP+17 for 5-hit
E-bow requires STP+36 for 5-hit

Presuming /SAM for both:

E-bow requires (something along the lines of) Mekki Shakki, Rose Strap, Skadi legs, Rajas Ring for 5-hit (and all have to be worn on WS). Total relevant stats for 5-hit E-bow with required gear: D109/490, STR+13, RATK+28, AGI+3

HF+1 requires only Rajas for 5-hit, and can therefore wear Vulcan's, Axe Grip, Hachiryu pants, and Rajas Ring in the same slots. Total relevant stats for 5-hit HF+1 with required gear: D123/640, STR+23, RATK+27

Are you running your calculations with these stats? Because otherwise, you are skewing the comparison towards the lower delay weapons; they are implicitly getting the benefit of giant amounts of +STP without having to give up anything in return.
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#48 Mar 30 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
***
1,996 posts
redvenomweb wrote:


E-bow requires (something along the lines of) Mekki Shakki, Rose Strap, Skadi legs, Rajas Ring for 5-hit (and all have to be worn on WS). Total relevant stats for 5-hit E-bow with required gear: D109/490, STR+13, RATK+28, AGI+3

HF+1 requires only Rajas for 5-hit, and can therefore wear Vulcan's, Axe Grip, Hachiryu pants, and Rajas Ring in the same slots. Total relevant stats for 5-hit HF+1 with required gear: D123/640, STR+23, RATK+27

Are you running your calculations with these stats? Because otherwise, you are skewing the comparison towards the lower delay weapons; they are implicitly getting the benefit of giant amounts of +STP without having to give up anything in return.



Regardless, it appears that HF/Ebos/Obow arguments are a thing of the past. Dragonmaw looks to destroy them all no matter which chart is looked at. Are they seriously going to turn this thing into a 'hits 1-4x' gun? For starters the gap between DD and mage will get even bigger. And furthermore, the thought of Wsing in 1 shot.....I dunno, it seems too much.
____________________________


#49 Mar 30 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
No i didnt. I tried to aim for a mid to high mid range ranger rather an all out rng. Skadi's legs + mekki + rose + rajas + barbut is a very common build on my server with hachi pants being very uncommon. IF you start adding in the top of the line rng gear, ofcourse all numbers are going to change across the board. I can and will recalculate with the varying setups. I tried to use the Rng and their gear as the baseline so that we were comparing the weapon + weapon stats not particular builds, because then you get into the "well this piece is better than that piece for this" debate which is what i tried to avoid here, even though it comes into play regardless.

The only way to do it properly is to agree explicitly on a build for bow rng, and a build for gun rng. Then i can rerun the numbers. Also include the race, stat merits, food etc cause every point is going to make a difference.


Quote:
Regardless, it appears that HF/Ebos/Obow arguments are a thing of the past. Dragonmaw looks to destroy them all no matter which chart is looked at. Are they seriously going to turn this thing into a 'hits 1-4x' gun? For starters the gap between DD and mage will get even bigger. And furthermore, the thought of Wsing in 1 shot.....I dunno, it seems too much.


Well if campaign is any type of comparison, SE may decide to forgo adding more defense to mobs and just start chucking massive amount of HP on them. Having a level 99 rng that occasionally ws's in 1 shot for 2k dmg vs a mob with 500,000 hp's is likely.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 4:31pm by Aryden
____________________________
Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#50 Mar 30 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
****
7,094 posts
Aryden wrote:
No i didnt. I tried to aim for a mid to high mid range ranger rather an all out rng. Skadi's legs + mekki + rose + rajas + barbut is a very common build on my server with hachi pants being very uncommon.

That build is not even remotely close to "common." Excluding Rajas (which is ultra-common), I am the only RNG I've ever seen "in person" with even 3 of the other 4 items. Do you even have all four of them yourself? According to your equip history on FFXIAH, you don't have any of those four items.

And speaking of FFXIAH, I could only find one person on FFXIAH (Tedman/Ramuh) with skadi legs + mekki + rose... and he owns an Annihilator, so I don't think he really counts for your argument. Meanwhile, FFXIAH shows over 20 RNGs with Hachiryu pants equipped at the time of this post.

Quote:
I tried to use the Rng and their gear as the baseline so that we were comparing the weapon + weapon stats not particular builds, because then you get into the "well this piece is better than that piece for this" debate which is what i tried to avoid here, even though it comes into play regardless.

You don't need to calculate other slots, for race, etc. because those are not necessary components. If you just use the standard base TP gain (i.e. default x-hit build) then you don't need to include any other slots at all, because anything that a bow RNG can equip, a gun RNG can equip (and vice versa).

But if you are going to presume a 5-hit build for all weapons, then you necessarily need to include the slots (and subjob) required to attain that build, and to keep the playing field level, you should fill in those slots for the weapons that don't need STP there.

Edited, Mar 30th 2010 3:14pm by redvenomweb
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#51Aryden, Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 4:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If its not displayed at that time then its not what they were wearing when they were scanned. Even before the server merger, i saw this setup on a regular basis. And i never included the annihilator or Yoichi.
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 12 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (12)