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So what is this new way to XP on RNG buisness?Follow

#1 Mar 17 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
So wtf is this?

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots.php?id=37635
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#2 Mar 17 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Fighting through the wall at a staging point, I guess?

Seems like a pretty unimpressive way to get banned, particularly when the screenshot says that they are making 9.1k/hour.
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#3 Mar 17 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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that's hilarious.
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#4 Mar 17 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Square Enix wrote:
Battle system changes.

Monsters are now able to follow players into staging points.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#5 Mar 17 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:
Fighting through the wall at a staging point, I guess?

Seems like a pretty unimpressive way to get banned, particularly when the screenshot says that they are making 9.1k/hour.


Would you get banned, though? If your puller uses a low-enmity action to get hate (like a missed attack), it should be fairly simple to have a PLD/WHM use Barstonra (or something similar) by the gate so it hits the puller to get the PLD on the hate list, then use a Cure-cheat to make sure hate's on the PLD, and run away from the gate. From there, the Skoffin is clearly targetable, and the RNGs kill it. No 3rd party tools seem to be required, so while it's technically an "exploit" (like RDM soloing, or Astral Burns), it will probably still be allowed.

If this were AV, I'd see it getting patched. But since it nets less XP/hour than a normal TPburn, even, I can't see this getting patched, much less people getting banned over it. SE will more than likely just chuckle at player inventiveness, and go back to whatever they were doing before.
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#6 Mar 18 2010 at 2:37 AM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
redvenomweb wrote:
Fighting through the wall at a staging point, I guess?

Seems like a pretty unimpressive way to get banned, particularly when the screenshot says that they are making 9.1k/hour.


Would you get banned, though? If your puller uses a low-enmity action to get hate (like a missed attack), it should be fairly simple to have a PLD/WHM use Barstonra (or something similar) by the gate so it hits the puller to get the PLD on the hate list, then use a Cure-cheat to make sure hate's on the PLD, and run away from the gate. From there, the Skoffin is clearly targetable, and the RNGs kill it. No 3rd party tools seem to be required, so while it's technically an "exploit" (like RDM soloing, or Astral Burns), it will probably still be allowed.

If this were AV, I'd see it getting patched. But since it nets less XP/hour than a normal TPburn, even, I can't see this getting patched, much less people getting banned over it. SE will more than likely just chuckle at player inventiveness, and go back to whatever they were doing before.


if you pull a mob to a place where it can't hurt you and then kill it, you will be banned if and when SE finds out. it's an exploit so obvious that you would deserve a higher punishment than banning if you felt indignant even in the slightest over your ban.
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#7 Mar 18 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
if you pull a mob to a place where it can't hurt you and then kill it, you will be banned if and when SE finds out. it's an exploit so obvious that you would deserve a higher punishment than banning if you felt indignant even in the slightest over your ban.


I don't know, while as far as the game mechanics are concerned, it's an obvious exploit, in actuality it's closer to the way real archers actually fought (let the enemy try to break down the main gate, and shoot them while they try).

Basically, what I'm saying is that I could see a GM banning someone over it if they come across it first. On the other hand, if a designer comes across it (or, maybe a designer that doesn't work for SE), I could see it even being expanded, with special XP camps designed like this just for Ranged Attackers.

Of course, SE "broke up" with RNG long ago, so I don't expect that to actually happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar shows up in FFXIV.
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#8 Mar 18 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
milich wrote:
if you pull a mob to a place where it can't hurt you and then kill it, you will be banned if and when SE finds out. it's an exploit so obvious that you would deserve a higher punishment than banning if you felt indignant even in the slightest over your ban.


I don't know, while as far as the game mechanics are concerned, it's an obvious exploit, in actuality it's closer to the way real archers actually fought (let the enemy try to break down the main gate, and shoot them while they try).

Basically, what I'm saying is that I could see a GM banning someone over it if they come across it first. On the other hand, if a designer comes across it (or, maybe a designer that doesn't work for SE), I could see it even being expanded, with special XP camps designed like this just for Ranged Attackers.

Of course, SE "broke up" with RNG long ago, so I don't expect that to actually happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar shows up in FFXIV.


manipulating the geography such that you can hurt the mob but it can't hurt you (and you're standing still) is the most often cited example to illustrate to people what exploits are. that you don't know this is bizarre. it is plainly an exploit, and anyone who worked for SE (and hopefully anyone else) would know this...
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#9 Mar 18 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
manipulating the geography such that you can hurt the mob but it can't hurt you (and you're standing still) is the most often cited example to illustrate to people what exploits are. that you don't know this is bizarre. it is plainly an exploit, and anyone who worked for SE (and hopefully anyone else) would know this...


I'm not denying that it's an exploit. I'm saying that archers in real life use the same "exploit" shown here, by shooting from towers and up behind battlements. Art imitating life and all that. Just because something is an exploit doesn't necessitate that it is bad.

What I'm talking about here is the difference between the Javelin exploit in Modern Warfare 2, which was plainly broken and did nothing to make the game more fun or preserve balance, and the "Combo" glitch found in the original release of Street Fighter II (which was quickly expanded on in Street Fighter II: Turbo), which is the foundation for the entire modern fighting game genre. It's less a bug, and more a feature.

I find it more interesting to discuss games on the design level, since that's what really interests me about them. I don't know if you are the type of person who plays games strictly "by the book" (and I'm not limiting this to video games, either), but I never was. I'm all about expanding the game, introducing house rules to deal with weak points in the original game's design and such. For example, one of my favorite ways to play Super Mario Brothers 3 was to ignore the game proper, and play the "Mario vs. Luigi" sewers minigame until we got a "collect the coins" level. We'd collect all but one, and then just play Tag instead of racing for the coins. It goes completely against the way the game was "intended to be played", but I got more enjoyment out of it, as did my friends. I'm not a gamer or a meta-gamer. I'm a meta-meta-gamer, if that makes any sense.

If I'm reading you correctly, you seem to think this should be changed so it's impossible. I, on the other hand, would rather see SE introduce "Forts" designed specifically for this, but probably with gates that the mob can batter down so the attackers inside aren't completely safe, and would have to move from fort to fort in order to keep partying. I'm not about maintaining the status quo, but rather for improving it, because there is yet to be a perfect game (Portal is pretty close, though), and even if there were, FFXI is certainly not it.

If you want to continue to argue that it's an exploit, and therefore bannable, I won't disagree (even though I personally think SE won't bother banning them), but limiting the discussion to that is pretty boring to me.
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#10 Mar 18 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Being able to kill a mob that cannot reach you versus being able to kill a mob that must break down a barrier to reach you are quite different scenarios. You understand the differences between the two and why the first one is an exploit, where as the second one would be a feature ya?
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#11 Mar 18 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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CrimsonSage wrote:
Being able to kill a mob that cannot reach you versus being able to kill a mob that must break down a barrier to reach you are quite different scenarios. You understand the differences between the two and why the first one is an exploit, where as the second one would be a feature ya?


Since I was the one who brought up the idea of a breakable barrier, yes, I would think it obvious that I can see the difference. Edit: although they're not *that* different, since if the barrier breaks on the first few mobs pulled, it's a pretty worthless setup unless you're getting massive XP per kill, since you'll spend so much time roaming to the next fort.

I still take issue with use of the term "exploit" as a negative. It's a neutral term, and can be good or bad. All it denotes is that the program is behaving in a way it wasn't intended to (but the programming allows).

Edited, Mar 18th 2010 2:04pm by Aliekber
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#12 Mar 18 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
I still take issue with use of the term "exploit" as a negative. It's a neutral term, and can be good or bad. All it denotes is that the program is behaving in a way it wasn't intended to (but the programming allows).

Well, it really depends on where you stand. From my perspective, getting exp for killing something that cannot fight back due to a terrain exploit is not cool-beans. Is there any way this exploit is okay?

I agree exploit isn't automatically bad, it just means the programmer/dev wasn't omniscient in his/her code.
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#13 Mar 18 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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CrimsonSage wrote:
Well, it really depends on where you stand. From my perspective, getting exp for killing something that cannot fight back due to a terrain exploit is not cool-beans. Is there any way this exploit is okay?


I guess it really doesn't rub me the wrong way for 3 reasons:

1) 9k/hour. They're not killing NMs here (which is far more likely to get you a ban, especially if it's AV), this is XP, and not great XP at that.

2) Who dies in XP? Seriously, when is the last time you were actually in any real danger in an XP party when you weren't overcamping, playing with retarded people, or had an AFK healer?

3) RNGs don't get great invites. BLM pet soloing is a pretty cheap trick (even though I <3 it), as is Astral Burning, and both of those have been allowed (I'm assuming) because BLM and SMN are last-place invites to XP parties.

So yes, it's an exploit. I'd never bother with it, though, since I have my chigoe burns (which are 50 times more broken than this, yet completely legit), and am not a RNG anyway. I'm not trying to troll here, I honestly would be very surprised if anyone got banned for this as long as it is only used for XP, and no NMs are involved (which would probably bring the banhammer swiftly).
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#14 Mar 18 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
CrimsonSage wrote:
Well, it really depends on where you stand. From my perspective, getting exp for killing something that cannot fight back due to a terrain exploit is not cool-beans. Is there any way this exploit is okay?


I guess it really doesn't rub me the wrong way for 3 reasons:

1) 9k/hour. They're not killing NMs here (which is far more likely to get you a ban, especially if it's AV), this is XP, and not great XP at that.

2) Who dies in XP? Seriously, when is the last time you were actually in any real danger in an XP party when you weren't overcamping, playing with retarded people, or had an AFK healer?

3) RNGs don't get great invites. BLM pet soloing is a pretty cheap trick (even though I <3 it), as is Astral Burning, and both of those have been allowed (I'm assuming) because BLM and SMN are last-place invites to XP parties.

So yes, it's an exploit. I'd never bother with it, though, since I have my chigoe burns (which are 50 times more broken than this, yet completely legit), and am not a RNG anyway. I'm not trying to troll here, I honestly would be very surprised if anyone got banned for this as long as it is only used for XP, and no NMs are involved (which would probably bring the banhammer swiftly).


if you were pos hacking all over tahrongi canyon for no reason and reaping no benefit, you'd be customarily banned if discovered. how are you not seeing this? you would really be surprised if someone was banned for performing an act that is used to explain what constitutes an exploit, just because they didn't get much benefit from it?
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#15 Mar 18 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
if you were pos hacking all over tahrongi canyon for no reason and reaping no benefit, you'd be customarily banned if discovered. how are you not seeing this? you would really be surprised if someone was banned for performing an act that is used to explain what constitutes an exploit, just because they didn't get much benefit from it?


How are you not seeing that I'm agreeing with you?

The primary reason I'd be surprised is that this is SE we're talking about. People pos hack all the time and don't get banned for it. I don't, personally, but I know lots of people who do/have, and only one of them has been banned, and that's Rog.
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#16 Mar 18 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't, personally, but I know lots of people who do/have, and only one of them has been banned, and that's Rog.


He only got banned for "talking about bots" (according to him); get it right!

/dubious
#17 Mar 18 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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I don't, personally, but I know lots of people who do/have, and only one of them has been banned, and that's Rog.


He only got banned for "talking about bots" (according to him); get it right!

/dubious


He got banned for "instructing others how to use 3rd party tools", if I recall correctly.

Secondly, I didn't say he got banned for pos-hacking, only that he did it, and has been banned.

But I'm about 95% sure that Pahn is just acting stupid to troll me, so I'm done here. On that note, well done.

So long, RNG forum, and thanks for the (red) arrows!
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#18 Mar 18 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Aliekber wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
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I don't, personally, but I know lots of people who do/have, and only one of them has been banned, and that's Rog.


He only got banned for "talking about bots" (according to him); get it right!

/dubious


He got banned for "instructing others how to use 3rd party tools", if I recall correctly.

Secondly, I didn't say he got banned for pos-hacking, only that he did it, and has been banned.

But I'm about 95% sure that Pahn is just acting stupid to troll me, so I'm done here. On that note, well done.

So long, RNG forum, and thanks for the (red) arrows!

Don't get upset about someone rating you down, its fun talking about what people think is justified or not. D:

I don't understand why you brought up pet soloing though. It can get to you, hit you, etc. I'm not sure how it compares to shooting through an impassible barrier.
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#19 Mar 19 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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for what it's worth, i neither rated you down nor am trolling you. it genuinely baffles me that you don't see how quickly these people would be banned if SE found out what they were doing. if someone walked by and GM'd them, they'd all be temp banned / GM jailed at the very least. just as if someone was pos hacking around bastok and someone GM'd them. everything you wrote about XP/hr and such was irrelevant...
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#20 Mar 19 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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Mil, Aliekber isn't writing about what SE and his GMs would do, he's writing about what he considers to be an improvement on the game.

Sadly I don't think FFXI could be fixed that way. Building breachable forts and giving the mobs sufficient intelligence for that task would imply in several other necessary changes to make it work fine (such as ability to climb, siege devices, etc).

Now concerning Milich's arguments, I just gotta say that GMs more often then not don't give a flying for that kind of procedure. Of course, if 1+ person were to report them, I suppose the GMs would feel in the obligation of taking counter measures, but these xp/merit and some NMs exploits don't seem to be of their interest. I personally had the chance of witnessing their lack of interest in it, when for about 4h a couple of BLM friends and I walled several Om'yovras. The only reason we stopped was because a GM, attending to a request from another person interested on the organs, >>> asked <<< us to either change our strategy or cooperate with that other person.

It's obvious - given the ToA - that this is not the proper procedure. It's obvious that we took an unnecessary risk and that another GM could have taken more drastic attitudes. But even SE knows how to be reasonable sometimes.

Edit: take Zip, Ix'drg, and several others as example. We use zone exploits every time to solo/duo them. It's however something so trivial and so unworthy of attention that no one will ever get banned for doing it


Ali, honestly I find that suggestion brilliant. But again, this could never be implemented on FFXI. Hopefully we'll get the chance to see some more advanced strategy possibilities in XIV.

Edited, Mar 19th 2010 8:57am by sbrubles
#21 Mar 19 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
for what it's worth, i neither rated you down nor am trolling you. it genuinely baffles me that you don't see how quickly these people would be banned if SE found out what they were doing. if someone walked by and GM'd them, they'd all be temp banned / GM jailed at the very least. just as if someone was pos hacking around bastok and someone GM'd them. everything you wrote about XP/hr and such was irrelevant...


First of all, you didn't specify the above before. If they're not earning omgwtfbbq XP/hour, other people aren't going to care, and probably won't go out of their way to GM them. It's easy enough to play it off if someone wants to zone out of MMJSP and the Skoffin is there ("oh yeah, we zoned into the staging point to lose aggro and it followed us lol"). The main thing going against them is that they were camped at Mamool Ja Staging point, and people need to use that gate for their merit parties. If it were a place that nobody ever goes unless they absolutely need to (Dvucca Isle Staging Point on Qutrubs comes to mind; most people rarely go there for anything besides Assault, and they don't need to use the gate for that). If nobody sees them, nobody can GM them. SE certainly isn't going to seek them out from an FFXIAH picture.

Also, checking FFXIAH activity, none of them have been banned, since they have activity for yesterday. So there's that.

But, short version, just so we're 100% clear: I agree that a GM would probably ban them (like I said earlier), but I don't think they will get banned because people aren't going to care enough to GM them/SE isn't going to care enough to follow the people in the screenshot until they try it again (because the XP/hour sucks, they're RNGs, etc.). If they had instead posted a picture of them getting 120k/hour from this exploit, and/or killing some hard NM using it, SE might take more of an interest (and people would be more likely to GM them), but I really can't see them caring enough to bother as things stand.

The Red Arrows comment was a riff on "So long and thanks for all the fish", more as a joke than anything else (since RNGs shoot arrows, and this is the RNG forum, blah blah blah). If I really cared about karma, I'd never talk about melee RDM and would probably be Guru by now, no? Oh, and I guess I'd post in the BST forums a lot. Those guys know how to spread the love.

Finally, I am more interested in the design implications of this than whether it's a ToS violation (it is), whether it's bannable (yeah), or whether they will get banned for it (doesn't look like it so far). If you would like to discuss that, then I'd be happy to stick around regardless of any red arrows that may fly my way, but if you keep responding with 'no, you don't get it, they're gonna get bant!' type responses, I really have nothing else to say, because I do, in fact, get it. We just seem to disagree about SE's competency/ability to care enough to go after these guys from one FFXIAH screenshot.
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#22 Mar 19 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
milich wrote:
for what it's worth, i neither rated you down nor am trolling you. it genuinely baffles me that you don't see how quickly these people would be banned if SE found out what they were doing. if someone walked by and GM'd them, they'd all be temp banned / GM jailed at the very least. just as if someone was pos hacking around bastok and someone GM'd them. everything you wrote about XP/hr and such was irrelevant...


First of all, you didn't specify the above before.


you're really trying my patience now. i specified exactly that in my first sentence to you. i occasionally don't read people's entire posts (for example, i'm not going to bother reading your last one), but even i can get through the first sentence. what the @#%^?

edit: quote trimmed for clarity.

Edited, Mar 19th 2010 8:55am by milich
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#23 Mar 19 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
milich wrote:
for what it's worth, i neither rated you down nor am trolling you. it genuinely baffles me that you don't see how quickly these people would be banned if SE found out what they were doing. if someone walked by and GM'd them, they'd all be temp banned / GM jailed at the very least. just as if someone was pos hacking around bastok and someone GM'd them. everything you wrote about XP/hr and such was irrelevant...


First of all, you didn't specify the above before.


you're really trying my patience now. i specified exactly that in my first sentence to you. i occasionally don't read people's entire posts (for example, i'm not going to bother reading your last one), but even i can get through the first sentence. what the @#%^?

edit: quote trimmed for clarity.


Ah, my bad. I just woke up, didn't recall you posting that yesterday. The rest of the post still stands, though.

Edit: Actually, you know what? You're right, they're going to get banned if SE ever catches on to this. How about that.

Now, can we please talk about the interesting part of this?

Edited, Mar 19th 2010 7:21am by Aliekber
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#24 Mar 19 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Now, can we please talk about the interesting part of this?

What was interesting about it though? 9k an Hour isn't super amazing at ToAU levels, and Rng doesn't have a massively difficult time getting an invite pre-merits(though people are still demanding pulling 55+ for whatever reason).

Guess it's kind of cool to shoot a dragon in the face while it's helplessly stuck in half a zone kinda.

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#25 Mar 19 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Uchitoru wrote:
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Now, can we please talk about the interesting part of this?

What was interesting about it though? 9k an Hour isn't super amazing at ToAU levels, and Rng doesn't have a massively difficult time getting an invite pre-merits(though people are still demanding pulling 55+ for whatever reason).

Guess it's kind of cool to shoot a dragon in the face while it's helplessly stuck in half a zone kinda.


It's interesting (to me) for two main reasons:

1) because the way real archers fought IRL is the equivalent of a video game exploit (which I just find funny, possibly I'm alone in this).

2) because it brings to mind alternative ways to set up an XP party (in the game design sense, not in the party leader sense), such as having it set up like a Tower Defense game, where the mobs run past, and you try to kill as many as you can before you are overrun. I already talked about the breakable barrier idea, which is similar in concept to the idea of a Tank, but it doesn't lose XP when it "dies" (so that can be a part of the strategy without anyone complaining), and instead of curing it up, you find a new one when the one you were using breaks. When I think more about it, it doesn't have a place so much in FFXI as it might in other games (possibly FFXIV) because FFXI already has a "throw more DD" at it approach, and if you did away with the need for Healers and Tanks in XP, it would just be worse all around for everyone because everyone in XP would demand DDx6 parties, and there would be no Tanks + Mages for endgame.
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#26 Mar 19 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Didn't read the entire thread, but sorry aliekber, seeing as people have been banned for doing the exact same thing with the wall of justice (not just for doing it with AV either), i'd yes, you likely would/could be banned for it.
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#27 Mar 19 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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wow you idiots completely missed the point of the screenshot. we zoned into the staging point to lose the aggro from the skoffin but it followed inside and got stuck in the door, but of cousre you douche's who rate down and leave negative are so blind to hilarity of that. all you can see is exp per hour what subjob we could not or should be subbbing. you asshats should go curl up in a corner somewhere.





I lol'd cause.... while everyone in the party is mostly healed, both rngs and the pld are engaged on the mob, somehow all the pt members got through the gate w/o dieing, then arranged themselves properly, while killing off th erest of the mob... yeah DOESNT sound fishy to me at all. Looks pretty setup to me. Looking at both Rng's hp's (being a hume ranger) i would say they were synced to 70 at the very lowest, which would make a skoffin quite killable.

and lol the Fuzzyllama is doing 41 dmg/hit more than Abela in the shot.

Edited, Mar 19th 2010 2:49pm by Aryden
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#28 Mar 19 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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1) because the way real archers fought IRL is the equivalent of a video game exploit (which I just find funny, possibly I'm alone in this).
I've said it many times in threads all over this site. NEVER bring real life mechanics in to an FFFXI discussion. It's about as useful as a discussion on Quantum mechanics in a **** theater.

I don't give a **** how strong/old/whatever a rabbit is, if you manage to hit him once with a huge great axe, it dies (or flops around greviously wounded). A person can't carry around a full set of furniture in his bag. If in the middle of a battle, a soldier's not going to change all his clothes for one big shot. The list goes on.

As for the mechanics of the exploit itself, it sounds interesting, but SE seems to believe that tanks serve as that "barrier" if you will. There already are fortifications in this game, it's just that we aren't allowed inside, and the defense of said forts are up to the players (or mobs if an offensive campaign area). And to be perfectly honest, I'd see a barrier idea like that as dumbing down the game even further. Also, I have very little faith in SE for changes, ESPECIALLY for RNG.
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#29 Mar 19 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cyth wrote:
Quote:
1) because the way real archers fought IRL is the equivalent of a video game exploit (which I just find funny, possibly I'm alone in this).
I've said it many times in threads all over this site. NEVER bring real life mechanics in to an FFFXI discussion. It's about as useful as a discussion on Quantum mechanics in a **** theater.

I don't give a **** how strong/old/whatever a rabbit is, if you manage to hit him once with a huge great axe, it dies (or flops around greviously wounded). A person can't carry around a full set of furniture in his bag. If in the middle of a battle, a soldier's not going to change all his clothes for one big shot. The list goes on.


What? Your examples could be considered Acceptable Breaks From Reality, while the exploit shown here is something that makes the game more realistic, yet is against the rules. It may seem like nitpicking, but there's a difference between the two; the latter is very rare compared to the former. I'm only mentioning it for the humor aspect, nothing more.

Cyth wrote:
As for the mechanics of the exploit itself, it sounds interesting, but SE seems to believe that tanks serve as that "barrier" if you will. There already are fortifications in this game, it's just that we aren't allowed inside, and the defense of said forts are up to the players (or mobs if an offensive campaign area). And to be perfectly honest, I'd see a barrier idea like that as dumbing down the game even further. Also, I have very little faith in SE for changes, ESPECIALLY for RNG.


I don't disagree with any of this--I basically laid out why it was a bad idea for FFXI (even if the barrier is breakable), but including something like this in FFXIV, which is supposedly more casual-focused, could make sense.

Sadly, I also agree that SE isn't likely to make changes to help RNG, especially after that last update where they yanked the good part of the changes to the job out at the last second.
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#30 Mar 19 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Noticed this was from my server, talked to Tsuna today.

73 sync'd, pulled a puk and aggro'd a skoffin. Killed the Puk and shadowbound the Skoffin to zone it. Skoffin came through the door, only attacked if you were in mellee distance but still used breath attacks.

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#31 Mar 19 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
we had to kill it in order to get back to our camp, saying that we set this up is stupid. why would i even bother. only reason i titled the screenshot as "the new way to exp on rng" was because i thought that people would see how funny it was for the skoffin to be stuck halfway through the gate. let me ask you this was that supposed to happen, i don't think so yet all you trollers are are so bent on labeling a glitch as we were exploiting the game mechanics. after we killed the skoffin we went back to our party. the jp rdm and brd in the party were laughing when i said that godzilla was trying to get us. you guys need to grow a sense of humor and stop bieng so negative. screenshot meant to be laughed atnot to speculate as to whether its an exploit. get a life you losers.
#32 Mar 19 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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just to chime in, i'm not interested in the thing you find interesting. this isn't to criticize you though; i'm positive there's things i'm interested in that you (and most people) find boring. by all means, discuss ideas for incorporating real life combat into ffxi. i fully agree with cyth that realism is never an argument in, say, gear discussions, game mechanics hypothesizing, or even to a large degree in "how the game should be" since other things like balance, fun, etc are more important (to me) [clarity edit: i'm mentioning this kind of to point out that i agree with cyth's reasoning in most threads, though re: why you're bringing up realism, i don't have any criticism, i'm just not interested]. ideas for what you want to see in the game... i hate those threads, but i talk about beer in double attack threads, so i'm not dissing.

as for this thread, i was just talking about bannings and exploits.

Edited, Mar 19th 2010 8:32pm by milich
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#33 Mar 19 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
just to chime in, i'm not interested in the thing you find interesting. this isn't to criticize you though; i'm positive there's things i'm interested in that you (and most people) find boring. by all means, discuss ideas for incorporating real life combat into ffxi. i fully agree with cyth that realism is never an argument in, say, gear discussions, game mechanics hypothesizing, or even to a large degree in "how the game should be" since other things like balance, fun, etc are more important (to me) [clarity edit: i'm mentioning this kind of to point out that i agree with cyth's reasoning in most threads, though re: why you're bringing up realism, i don't have any criticism, i'm just not interested]. ideas for what you want to see in the game... i hate those threads, but i talk about beer in double attack threads, so i'm not dissing.

as for this thread, i was just talking about bannings and exploits.


Oh, I don't expect you or anyone else really to be interested in what I'm interested in. After all, if everyone was as interested in design as I am, we'd spend all our time debating mechanics and design in forums and nobody would play the games themselves.

As a side note, I was in a bit of a crabby mood yesterday (well, most of the week, really), so apologies if my comments were irritating/upsetting/whatever. I'm going to Vegas tomorrow, so I'm suspecting I'll be significantly more pleasant to talk to after I get back from there.
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#34 Mar 19 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
redvenomweb wrote:
Fighting through the wall at a staging point, I guess?

Seems like a pretty unimpressive way to get banned, particularly when the screenshot says that they are making 9.1k/hour.


Would you get banned, though? If your puller uses a low-enmity action to get hate (like a missed attack), it should be fairly simple to have a PLD/WHM use Barstonra (or something similar) by the gate so it hits the puller to get the PLD on the hate list, then use a Cure-cheat to make sure hate's on the PLD, and run away from the gate. From there, the Skoffin is clearly targetable, and the RNGs kill it. No 3rd party tools seem to be required, so while it's technically an "exploit" (like RDM soloing, or Astral Burns), it will probably still be allowed.


This is basically the same thing as rocking in EQ. And people would use the same lame excuses trying to equate it to other unintended but perfectly legitimate activities right up till they got banned.

Then they'd make a post that went something like "SOE IS UNFAIR AND I'M NEVER GIVING THEM MY MONEY AGAIN!"

Of course you're not, you're banned you @#%^wit.



Edited, Mar 19th 2010 10:40pm by Lobivopis
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#35 Mar 19 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:


if you were pos hacking all over tahrongi canyon for no reason and reaping no benefit, you'd be customarily banned if discovered. how are you not seeing this? you would really be surprised if someone was banned for performing an act that is used to explain what constitutes an exploit, just because they didn't get much benefit from it?


It's called logical gymnastics.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#36 Mar 20 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
Aliekber wrote:
BLM pet soloing is a pretty cheap trick (even though I <3 it), as is Astral Burning, and both of those have been allowed (I'm assuming) because BLM and SMN are last-place invites to XP parties.


Really? You do realize that pets are not BLM only, and not cheap in the slightest.

I was killed by pets leveling up numerous times and by their master as well.

I leveled BLU on pets while LFP, BLM on pets until the rats in the subterane, and SMN duo on pets to almost 62 now. Maybe you have just not fought any pets and wish to say that?

However on SMN burn I agree, and I wish they do away with them.
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#37 Mar 20 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, I think some people are missing the point. They tried to zone a skoffin when that happened. None of them were trying to use an exploit.
#38 Mar 20 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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We got that (some at least), we're just exploring an interesting derailing.
#39 Mar 21 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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derailed topic is more fun than "lol silly skoffin."
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#40 Mar 21 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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BelenosSwiftWater wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
BLM pet soloing is a pretty cheap trick (even though I <3 it), as is Astral Burning, and both of those have been allowed (I'm assuming) because BLM and SMN are last-place invites to XP parties.


Really? You do realize that pets are not BLM only, and not cheap in the slightest.

I was killed by pets leveling up numerous times and by their master as well.

I leveled BLU on pets while LFP, BLM on pets until the rats in the subterane, and SMN duo on pets to almost 62 now. Maybe you have just not fought any pets and wish to say that?

However on SMN burn I agree, and I wish they do away with them.


I leveled SCH to 75 primarily on pets (2-3 normal XP parties and 2 Chigoe burns, but the vast majority was on pets). Please understand that when I say it's an exploit I'm not saying it's bad (and I've died my fair share of times as well, special mention to my personal nemesis, the Zi'Tah camp). Exploit = the game acting in a way the designers didn't intend, it's not a positive or negative term, just a description. In the case of SMN burns, they exploit the chaining system counting simultaneous kills as eligible for chaining, in RDM solo they exploit mob pathing, and in BLM pet soloing they exploit low pet HP.

Like I said before, I love BLM pet soloing--easily my favorite way to level other than chigoe burns. That doesn't mean it isn't exploitative, though.

P.S. Vegas was awesome!
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#41 Mar 21 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Old school chigoe burn was more fun though, I'd rather AFK and come back 7 levels richer. (63-70) xD
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