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STR vs. RAtk vs. AGI for the end-game RNG: Some answersFollow

#52 Nov 01 2006 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Just bookmark it
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#53 Nov 01 2006 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I would offer putting Bushinomimi in there intead of a Triumph +1 just because its free.
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#54 Nov 01 2006 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I would offer putting Bushinomimi in there intead of a Triumph +1 just because its free.


And lose one of the better TP gain earring now that we can melee while shooting again?
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#55 Nov 01 2006 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Suppanomimi is not quite a TP gain earring since dual wield cuts your weapon delay, and hence less TP gain per hit
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#56 Nov 01 2006 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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only bad arguments can be brought up against suppa. you can bring up the lessened TP but that's not really important. there is still a positive net TP gain from wearing it. and when you think about it from a ranger's viewpoint, meleeing is nothing but extra TP. you might get in 2 or 3 rounds before you hit 100+%. is missing out on 1 TP every 3 attack rounds that important?
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#57 Nov 01 2006 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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swxsh wrote:
only bad arguments can be brought up against suppa. you can bring up the lessened TP but that's not really important. there is still a positive net TP gain from wearing it. and when you think about it from a ranger's viewpoint, meleeing is nothing but extra TP. you might get in 2 or 3 rounds before you hit 100+%. is missing out on 1 TP every 3 attack rounds that important?

Let's get into the detail

Compute the time period "t" such that person A who wear suppanomimi get their X+1 hit while the other person who doesn't use suppa just got their X hits.

Fun calculation. but I'm out of time, gotta go to class soon

EDIT :
Assuming you're wielding kriegs + fransisca (288 + 276 = 564)
w/o suppa you'll get 479 total delay ( 564 * 0.85 = 479.4 = 479 )
w/ suppa you'll get 451 total delay ( 564 * 0.8 = 451.2 = 451 )

the answer is 17 rounds
w/ suppa : 17 * 451 = 7667
w/o suppa : 16 * 479 = 7664

By the time the one with suppa swings the 17th round, the the one w/o suppa just swings their 16th round.
Unless you can argue you can swing your axes that many times in one fight. yeah, suppa does something (a little) to your number of swings.

Otherwise, BRD's Marches / RDM/WHM's Haste have stronger effect than one single piece of earring. (and hence, faster convergence to "I swing one more round than you")

Edited, Nov 1st 2006 at 6:50pm PST by VZX
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#58 Nov 02 2006 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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What about Barbarossa's Zerehs for the leg slot? I didn't see anyone mention them in any of the postings. Them seem pretty difficult to get so if your able to obtain them they might be the most useful leg slot item if your rng acc is okay.
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#59 Nov 08 2006 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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bump ;)
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#60 Nov 09 2006 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Im very surprised at how little difference there is between the Hume RSE2 boots and regular ol' War Boots. Who the **** wants to pay an extra 2.94 mil for an extra 5-10 damage on a WS, I sure as **** dont. The greatest thing about this is that it shows people how little most +1 stuff gives. War Boots, 60k. War Boots +1, 1.8mil. You basically pay 1.74 mil for an extra one Rng attack, which is just retarded IMO.

I know, I know, armor isnt really spending money, more like "renting" since you can always sell back, but still I rather have the gil on hand rather than spending 50mil so my Sidewinder can do another 40-50 damage or w/e. Imo its better wasted crafting or something that will give you more noticeable results, or just instead of keeping one super pimped out job, have 2-3 nicely equipped ones.
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#61 Nov 09 2006 at 11:23 AM Rating: Default
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Usually, 2~4 HQ pieces won't make any difference than wearing a normal one
If you can have more than 50% your gears in HQ, you'll get a noticeable difference between the NQ ones
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#62 Nov 09 2006 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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dahealah wrote:
Im very surprised at how little difference there is between the Hume RSE2 boots and regular ol' War Boots. Who the **** wants to pay an extra 2.94 mil for an extra 5-10 damage on a WS, I sure as sh*t dont.


Hume females who only have to pay 500k or so ;p... or people who already had them for another job and were wondering if they were worth using on RNG.
#63 Nov 10 2006 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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lol Sae. I had a friend(retired now) who was a man, but played a female Elvaan in game. I always use to make fun of him, until the RSE stages of our careers. Then he laughed at me. Female RSE IS SO CHEAP compared to male lol, no fair.
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#64 Nov 10 2006 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Good job man. A lot of hard work has gone into this, and I think this'll be a keeper. We can finally have some of the answers about which piece of gear is best for which slot, STR wise. A r.acc sheet or even a r.acc vs STR sheet would be really cool, but I realise that's a shed load of work over this, and I'd have a crack at it myself, but work commitments don't really give me time to do it justice. Perhaps someone with a little more time might be kind enough to have a go, or perhaps a few people can work on it together and pool their data.

Either way, grats for the work, and thank you for making the world of rangers that little bit clearer....
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#65 Nov 12 2006 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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VZX wrote:
the answer is 17 rounds
w/ suppa : 17 * 451 = 7667
w/o suppa : 16 * 479 = 7664

By the time the one with suppa swings the 17th round, the the one w/o suppa just swings their 16th round.
Unless you can argue you can swing your axes that many times in one fight. yeah, suppa does something (a little) to your number of swings.

This isn't entirely true because you are leaving out the variable of when the mob dies. If you have two people with equal delay, as in your example above, and you decrease the delay of one of the players very slightly, it creates a small window of time where if the mob dies during that window, the player with lower delay will have gotten an extra attack for that round.

As you swing faster (be it via Haste or DW enhancements), that window of time increases and the chances of actually getting in an extra hit relative to another player before the mob dies increases. So, if you're lucky enough, it's possible that you could get in your "extra" hit on the 4th round of attacks if your delay is above someone else's and the mob dies during that window of time. Note that being the player who got the killing blow also counts as if the mob died during the window because you would have deprived the slower player a chance to get in his attack for that round.

This is the reason why I think Suppanomimi is really good. That said, I'm still a pretty newb RNG and can't weigh the usefulness of Suppanomimi against other setups in practical situations but I wanted to point out that I think the above argument is flawed for the reasons stated.
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#66 Nov 12 2006 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Friar jerji wrote:
VZX wrote:
the answer is 17 rounds
w/ suppa : 17 * 451 = 7667
w/o suppa : 16 * 479 = 7664

By the time the one with suppa swings the 17th round, the the one w/o suppa just swings their 16th round.
Unless you can argue you can swing your axes that many times in one fight. yeah, suppa does something (a little) to your number of swings.

This isn't entirely true because you are leaving out the variable of when the mob dies. If you have two people with equal delay, as in your example above, and you decrease the delay of one of the players very slightly, it creates a small window of time where if the mob dies during that window, the player with lower delay will have gotten an extra attack for that round.

As you swing faster (be it via Haste or DW enhancements), that window of time increases and the chances of actually getting in an extra hit relative to another player before the mob dies increases. So, if you're lucky enough, it's possible that you could get in your "extra" hit on the 4th round of attacks if your delay is above someone else's and the mob dies during that window of time. Note that being the player who got the killing blow also counts as if the mob died during the window because you would have deprived the slower player a chance to get in his attack for that round.

This is the reason why I think Suppanomimi is really good. That said, I'm still a pretty newb RNG and can't weigh the usefulness of Suppanomimi against other setups in practical situations but I wanted to point out that I think the above argument is flawed for the reasons stated.

Sure
Your point is valid.
But then I can argue what's the average time the mob live + the std. deviation etc and see the expected value you'll get another hit by wearing suppa.
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#67 Nov 17 2006 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a question... How much of a difference does the damage rating on your ranged weapon and ammo make? I've always wondered this...
#68 Nov 17 2006 at 8:58 PM Rating: Default
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What are you comparing here?
weapon damage and ammo damage is about 70-85% of your total base damage for normal shot and about 50~70% for your WS
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#69 Nov 17 2006 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry I didn't elaborate. I'm talking about let's say... Gendawa +1 has a damage rating of 77. The E-bow has a damage rating of 71. I'd just like to know how much of the +23 ranged attack the gendawa compensates for if you used it over the e-bow.
#70 Nov 17 2006 at 10:35 PM Rating: Default
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I guess that depends on how high your pDIF value is, and how big the monster def is
the higher the monster def, the less impact the ratk from ebow for amplifying the damage.
the higher your pDIF is, the more useful your base damage become.

It's no direct answer to the question, but I guess it can answer which better for which situation
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#71 Nov 18 2006 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I see... I just guessed that rangers never used Shigeto bow +1 (76 dmg/ratk +16) because e-bow was always better or something. To me it would seem the shigeto would be a better choice but I'm not high enough rng to test it out or anything. Can any rangers here testify the differences between Shigeto +1 vs E bow?
#72 Nov 18 2006 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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shigeto is better for per-shot and weaponskill damage, but ebow has a noticably lower delay, which is the main reason why people use it over anything else
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#73 Nov 22 2006 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
Awesome information! I have always had my own opinions on what I thought seemed better options, but it makes it much easier to make decisions when you have the cold hard facts right in front of you in the form of numerical results. Thanks for putting in the effort and time!
#74 Oct 17 2007 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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I have a few questions about taru rse 2 and how they compare with the other selections:

Quote:
Hands
S Kote - 1.93% SW, 2.71% SS
CFG - 2.35% SW, 2.22% SS
BFG - 2.58% SW, 2.45% SS

Basically here, the rule of thumb is S Kote for SS and CFG/BFG for SW. However at very High damage S Kote will begin to outdamage CFG on SW, and at very Low damage BFG will outdamage S Kote on SS.


how would 6 STR, -3 agi compare to these?
Quote:

Feet
AF2 - 2.35% SW, 2.22% SS
STR +3 feet - 1.54% SW, 1.45% SS
War Boots - 1.17% SW, 1.11% SS
War Boots +1 - 1.41% SW, 1.33% SS

There's lots of options for the STR + 3 feet, price em out vs. War Boots +1 and see which ones are a better buy. Otherwise regular old War Boots ain't bad, compared to the other buyable choices (AF2 . . . drool.)


how does 4 str compare?
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#75 Oct 17 2007 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I want to say thank you for the hard work and the follow on information everyone added. This has been a very helpful post for me.

I have been caught up in the depression of thinking I needed all this God Gear to be a great ranger. What I have learned is that I am almost there without it.

My shopping list for tonight. Woodville's Axe, RK +2 (I have a +1 so just an upgrade), Ruby Ring x2 (not rich >.<;) and maybe a Qiqirn but I already have Chiv Chain so I may pass on it.

What I will end up with for the time being is:

Ranged: O-bow or E-bow
Weapon: Franny/Woodville
Head: AF1
Neck: Rng Necklace (Chiv Chain for WS)
Ears: Drone x 2 (just can't justify the cost)
Body: AF1 or Shikaree Aketon (Shikaree Aketon until I can get Archers for WS)
Hands: Deadeye Gloves (anything better requires Sky/HNM)
Rings: Behemoth Ring / Crossbowsman ring (Ruby x 2 for WS)
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Waist: RK +2 (Jungle Sash for WS unless Bastok controls something? lol)
Legs: Jaridah Salvars (Until I get Pahluwan Seraweels)
Feet: War Boots (Savage Gaiters for WS)

Anyone want to comment on that setup? Bad/Good? Don't bother with this or that piece? Of course if I am missing like crazy I will adjust because missing everything is sort of pointless.
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#76 Oct 18 2007 at 3:28 AM Rating: Default
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What I have learned is that I am almost there without it.


Sorry but your not even close.
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