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#1 Jan 27 2004 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys,

i am curious if other people get this often. i play a ranger lv 38 right now and i often have people complain about how i play this job. i am by no mean a rich taru so i must be carful about the amount of arrows i use, i have taken to using an axe as well as my bow. usauly i will start a fight with sharpshot..barage....flaming arrow... 2 more arrows.. then about
3-5 attacks with my axe then flaming arrow.
i usauly shoot one normial arrow evey 3-5 attacks with my axe.

now yes i do realize that i do 80-130 damage per sot with my bow without barage and flaming arrow.

and my axe does about 10-30 damage a hit, also i have 56 agility so my critical hit rate is up there.

so even using my axe i outdamage a rdm, and with this patten of attacks i use outdamage anyother class in the party.

dispite this i have people getting mad i dont just stand there and shoot all the time. i explain that i am still doing more overall damage than anyone in the party and also that arrows are expensive, i use about 1000 each day that i play. the response i get is that i should just stand there are shoot, and that its not my fault i picked ranger as a job. and i also get harassed allot about people saying i should use a gun.

am i just finding allota dumb people to party with or is this normial?
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Thumper
#2 Jan 27 2004 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think there's a rule anywhere that says a RNG must shoot for the entire duration of the battle. Anyone who gives you a problem over it is probably one of those people who thinks they know more about playing every job class than the people who actually play them (I hate those people). In other words they're idiots and should be ignored.

My suggestion is next time it comes up just say something like "look guys, I'm firing off 20-30 gil with each shot here, if you want me shooting all of the time I better get all the loot!" If they give you trouble about not using a gun. Say you'll be happy to use one if they buy you the ammo. Or just leave and try to find another party.

BTW: Unless you were under duress at the time, it is your fault your a RNG.
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Night Elf Hunter
#3 Jan 27 2004 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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if you're not firing arrows to save yourself aggro from monsters that's once thing...if you're saving arrows to lower costs then you really shouldn't be a ranger, you knew what you were getting into..it's expensive...but that's why you have to farm or tradeskill every now and then, and rangers were put on vana diel for 3 things, track, pull and do mass dmg if you can't do those 3 simple things then something is wrong with your ranger prowess.
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Ramuh server.

World of Warcraft.
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Oldschool Grand Arcanist of everquest
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#4 Jan 27 2004 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to agree and disagree w/ Drizzt

Agree -- we shouldn't be thinking of arrow costs. Don't even bring that up with the group you're in or you're probably asking for a backlash.

Disagree -- I think in your situation described above you were probably in the wrong group. A ranger shouldn't be on auto-pilot firing a constant volley.

So far I've been lucky I guess...all the comments I get have been very positive. Unless people's opinions change as you get higher level?

Although, I DO find FFXI has more idiots then most other MMOs....present company excluded of course. :)

#5 Jan 27 2004 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the problem with lack of intelligence in the game is,alot of the people playing from NA are new to the MMO game genre and still can't really figure out how to play a game that is dependant on others to get you through things, I try to play with my rl friends whenever I can because they've played with me through EQ and we played that for about 5 years together.
For the most part though I see alot of people not being so nice to each other, hell the other day I had two people provoke snatch my pulls when it was blatently obvious that I was aiming my bow that way to pull it, and then one of them literally told me to "Suck One" when I approached em about him doing it more than once. People dont understand that there's other people behind that character that you're pissing off and so they don't think about what they say before they say it.
Pretty much you just have to learn to take it all in stride and know that once you get sidewinder he'll drop his mouth like he just got smacked when he sees what you can do.
All in all you just have to stick with it and ignore the stupid comments.
____________________________
Annamaria
44 rng/30 war
15whm,12mnk,25 nin,7 thf,7 blm
Ramuh server.

World of Warcraft.
42nd Hunter of Lothar

Oldschool Grand Arcanist of everquest
70th wizard, The Rathe.
#6 Jan 27 2004 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry, but if you are not shooting because it costs too much to be firing arrows all the time, save everyone some time and switch jobs now.

There is no room in Vana'diel for penny-pinching RNGs. You just ruin the reputation for the rest of us. =/
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#7 Jan 27 2004 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Well...that and I think it may also do with the fact there are younger players involved too.

What surprises me the most is the amount of players who can "coast by" in this game without having to understand too much. I find it amazing how there are players who are mid-way through their advanced class who ask things like "What is TP?", "What's trick attack?" etc.

Certainly this is a game and I try not to be too critical of these players...but certainly one would expect people to understand the basics by the time they're into their 2nd build.

I was doing mission 10 the other week and a bunch of players decided to go on auto-follow the whole way and go afk! The gall! Another half of the players had only half their gear...they looked at my gear and said "you're rich! I only have 200 gil"

200 gil?! That's one gob helm or 2 batwings..comon!

ok..rant over. :)

Edited, Tue Jan 27 15:03:09 2004 by Kamena
#8 Jan 27 2004 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
without a doubt, learn to make money. i'm not a ranger yet, but that's all i'm concerned about. many people love rangers but don't choose to be one, because they don't want to bother with the money. if it's that much of an issue, you should have chosen a different job.

and yes, the servers are full of complete morons. but that doesn't bother me much. cuz, the real world is full of an equal amount of retards. having rude, immature, stupid idiots in the game is what makes online games so interesting. meeting a diversity of kind and rude people is part of human interaction. whatever, just don't let it bother you. switch parties or something.
#9 Jan 27 2004 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
having rude, immature, stupid idiots in the game is what makes online games so interesting.


True. :) But there's just MORE then your usual distribution in FFXI then other MMOs it seems and I'm just trying to figure out why hehe

Edited, Tue Jan 27 16:53:10 2004 by Kamena
#10 Jan 27 2004 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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redvenomweb wrote:
Sorry, but if you are not shooting because it costs too much to be firing arrows all the time, save everyone some time and switch jobs now.

There is no room in Vana'diel for penny-pinching RNGs. You just ruin the reputation for the rest of us. =/


Exactly. You should be shooting arrows constantly unless you have aggro or you can tell that the mob is going to be dead before you have time to fire a shot. Only other time would be if you're pausing for a few seconds because of a skillchain.

If a party hassles you about not using a gun, tell them they're free to replace you if they find another ranger at your level using one. Being cheap with your arrows is one thing, blowing hundreds of thousands on bullets is another.

I wouldn't recommend using barrage to open a fight either; that's just going to annoy everyone else in the party. You should wait until the tank has built up enough aggro that your barrage doesn't disrupt things, or wait until a barrage will kill the mob. It's a lot safer for you too. :)
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#11 Jan 27 2004 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I think there's a few reasons why people seem less -- shall we say -- attentive to the genre in FFXI than perhaps you've observed in other MMORPGS.

1) FF, to my knowledge, has always been an RPG and not multiplayer. People may be approaching it from that standpoint.
2) FF is a name, more than anything. People may see "Final Fantasy" and say, "sure" even if they've never played any other RPG or MMORPG.
3) FF has, for the most part, been console-based. Most of the people using PCs (which, at the moment, means almost everyone) are used to playing games like Ultima, Wizardry, M&M, etc. These games are based on power-leveling as fast as you can - all benefits are from fighting, killing, and "beating" the game.
4) You're playing it. Now, wait, I didn't mean it like that. Perception is always aimed towards egocentrism. So, the light always changes for me (if I'm positive) or against me (if I'm pessimistic) regardless of who else is in the traffic pattern. This game has more "inattentive" players than any other because we're on it and have to deal with them right now. Realistically, other MMORPGs have probably had to deal with the same percentage of induhviduals as FFXI; our scale is slightly tweaked because the "decent players" are "all japanese" and the "sucky players" are "all north american", but I would bet the math is consistent (no basis for this; just pure speculation).

As for the original topic:
Most of the time, I'm a thief. I get jibes from my LS because I farm and NM hunt so much, but hey, I need to pay for that stack of iron quivers I'm using. They stop laughing when they realize it works. Being a ranger is expensive, but you have to deal with it.
I keep restating it, but the point of a party is the maximum benefit with the minimum impact. If by holding back ranged shots you don't decrease the efficiency or speed of the party, the by all means do it. If you do impact the effectiveness of the party, then you're doing them a disservice.
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#12 Jan 27 2004 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Deleted my post...offtopic, and already covered in another thread. =P

Edited, Tue Jan 27 19:32:31 2004 by DioranSchafier
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Rank 5 Hume Thief(30), Red Mage(11), Ranger(48), Warrior(18), Samurai(10), Ninja (25).
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#13 Jan 28 2004 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
23 posts
thanks for the input guys, it seems to me that most people have allot of time to play, if i play 5 hours a week or even 10 hours using arrows all the time will mean i have to farm over half of the time i spend playing, so i guess i really have 3 options

1 change jobs
2 be bored farming
3 hope people can be nice and help me on farming methods, crawlers are the main thing that i farm but dont seem to work so well
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Thumper
#14 Jan 28 2004 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
Theres a 4th option. Play the way you want to play. Your paying to play this game. there are no rules saying you have to play a "certain" way depending on your job. I'm a 40 ranger nearing 41. I at times still use iron arrows due to lack of funds or time. (sometimes AH sales take longer than expected) If I'm in a group that complains about my arrows or my methods i just leave the group and find a new one. There are always groups out there looking for rangers.
And by the way even with iron arrows i outdamage everyone in the party (besides some Blm's) by 30+ Dmg per hit.

So enjoy the game and tell anyone that trys to tell you how to play your charachters to F..K off.
#15 Jan 28 2004 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont think FF has anymore idiots/griefers than say EQ. In EQ there was always someone trying to train or KS your mob from you. Ninja Looting (Loot and Log) was especially bad. Least in FF the trainers that do it on purpose usually die, there is no possibility of being KS'd and loot goes into a pool upon which to be rolled. Square did a good job of weeding out ways that people could be griefed, which was a reason I left EQ (nothing was done about it so it was almost as if they were encouraging it). As for idiots in the game, bah they are worldwide, its pandemic. :p

Bru
#16 Jan 28 2004 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah you got a point...EQ had idiots too.

On the other hand, the KSers, the Ninja looters, the trainers you describe in EQ....at LEAST knew what they were doing :)

I'm talking about an overall lack of understanding of the mechanics of the game...

Anyway, to Thumper: Just have fun is my only suggestion. I can understand the frustration of farming....I don't think that's a long-term way to make money for you unless you're either a THF (for treasure hunter) or a BLM (for AE)

You might want to look into NM-hunting...or look into a long-term craft that may have a high return rate.

#17 Jan 28 2004 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Its all about the way you play the game.

Me for instance, i always must have the best gear for my level no matter what class. I want to be the best at every class i play at every level. Due to this i often dont play my ranger if i cant afford arrows. I cant bring myself to buy arrows lower quality than what i can equip, same reason i cant stand wearing gear lower than my level if there is better available.

Due to this, alot of other rangers coming up after me have passed me in levels. But i find it more rewarding to play my class to its fullest, and i have gotten alot of comments to the tune of how much better i am than other rangers who spend less time making sure they have the money to support their character.

But its a peeve of mine and thats how i play. Part of the game for me is buying gear and outfitting my character. I like being inspected by rangers 10-15 levels higher than me and being told "nice gear". I feel like im dishonoring my group if im not taking enough pride in my character to have the best.

For me, being inspected by a same level ranger and having him/her see me using a lower quality arrow than what i can equip is embarrasing and i wont do it. Same with stat food, i simply will not level without it because i feel i am slacking on my end of the group make up. Thats just the way i play though. I'm not worried about reaching lvl 75 as soon as possible, i'd rather be the best ranger i can be at every level of the game so i enjoy every level of the game and bring the most to the table i can.

As it is, sometimes i do have to farm for 2 hours to afford arrows and food for the evening, or play another class untill my AH wares sell. But to me, it makes playing my ranger something to look forward to, a reward almost.
#18 Jan 28 2004 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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in defense of zazu and every ohter ranger out there..if a meleer can get away with not having the best gear for his level, a ranger can get away with not having the best bow or arrows too. the high dmg of a ranger is in part due to the innate dmg of the weapon he's using. like someone said, using lower lvl arrows like iron is not a bad idea when your base dmg with a bow is pretty high already.

and yes there are thieves or rdms out there (no offense intended) who cannot damage as much as a ranger with low level ammo..so if you hit for 10 pts less because you're using a low lvl ammo, it's ok imo.

and finally, i dont know what melee skills a ranger has but just like mages, they have a close combat weapon for a reason. there is no rule that these support classes or ranged classes have to stay in the back lines all the time. we all need to work up TP or weapons skills.



#19 Feb 03 2004 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
1st topic: It's funny, I've accualy had party leaders tell me to tone down the dammage I do because I'm getting to much hate from the mob. If your conserving arrows to conserve hate, thus make the healer and tanks job easier, that's a perfectly good reason. If your conserving arrows 'cause your worried about cash flow, then you need to find a way to get more gill wheather that be farming, joining a guild ect.

2nd topic: Honestly, I don't know about other MMORPG's 'cause this is the first one I've played. I have found my share of 'special' people in this game, but that's just life. Jebus though, I was at the AH in Bastok yesterday and some guy's going up to everyone asking to borrow 100 gill......100 GILL! I mean, I can find that under my couch cushions for goodness sake.
Anywho, I try to ignore the stupidity the best I can and when I do find party members worth a return party, I either put them on my Friend List or (rarly) give them a Linkpearl.

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Gilgamesh Server
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Ninja: 37
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#20 Feb 03 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
hope people can be nice and help me on farming methods, crawlers are the main thing that i farm but dont seem to work so well


Crawlers are absolutely terrible. Even with a 35 thief with ranger sub to track them. My old spot that you could try is palborough mines. Amethyst quadavs drop quadav backplates which sell for 700 each on leviathan(Price history will say less, but as the low sellers run out buyers will pay more) Sometimes I could even get 800 or 900(900 was the standard in jueno actually, but you have to consider tax taking 100 off that) They drop MUCH higher then silk, over half the time for my thief. Looks like you've got thf 10 from your sig, work him up and sub him. Only problem I see is you have SIX classes according to your sig...so this may not work for you if you don't have space in your storage. Backplates don't stack. In any case though find someplace besides crawlers and get your thief to 15, painful a task as that may be.
#21 Feb 04 2004 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Jowaa wrote:
For me, being inspected by a same level ranger and having him/her see me using a lower quality arrow than what i can equip is embarrasing and i wont do it. Same with stat food, i simply will not level without it because i feel i am slacking on my end of the group make up. Thats just the way i play though. I'm not worried about reaching lvl 75 as soon as possible, i'd rather be the best ranger i can be at every level of the game so i enjoy every level of the game and bring the most to the table i can.

As it is, sometimes i do have to farm for 2 hours to afford arrows and food for the evening, or play another class untill my AH wares sell. But to me, it makes playing my ranger something to look forward to, a reward almost.

I couldn't agree with you more. I like running across other rangers and comparing equipment... because I know that mine is almost always better. (once I get LL boots, I will be certain)

RNG is a unique class, in that we are the standard for damage-dealing in the game. When talking about how much damage they do, every other class has to say, "Yeah, I do more damage than any other job my level (except for RNG)." I LOVE that. It is my job to make sure that no person I ever party with comes away saying, "RNG is overrated... I did more damage than him."

I do everything I can to put my damage output right below the threshold of hate that the tank can maintain. This way, if anyone outdamages me, they would be dead.
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#22 Feb 04 2004 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
As someone who's come from EQ after a pretty long while of playing it, I can safely say that the idiot quotient in FFXI is FAR inferior to that of EQ. In EQ, a lot of people don't understand what most of their spells do, and what most functions of their class do... At level 65 (level cap). Yeah. Imagine our joy when we get a group together to grind exp, and suddenly our warrior doesn't know what taunt does.

Sucks.

And it happens a LOT. A LOT more than FFXI.

So, don't feel so bad. If you're masochistic, start a new character on any EQ server, especially a PVP server, and see what kind of hell waits for you.
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