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When to switch to guns?Follow

#1 Jan 14 2004 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm curious about when I should start using Guns as my primary weapon. I guess "when you can afford them" is the obvious answer, but I'm wondering roughly level wise where that shows up.

At the moment I'm thinking about using them more often at lvl 22 (when bullets become available), but I don't expect I'll be able to afford it as a regular weapon compared to the bow's.

Any advice you guys can offer would be appreciated

Edited, Wed Jan 14 15:27:31 2004 by Jigensan
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#2 Jan 14 2004 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Never!!!
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#3 Jan 14 2004 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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LOL, what kind of answer do you expect from an Elvaan RNG? =P

Once you can use Silver Bullets, assuming you've been leveling Marksmanship with Xbows, guns are quite valuable.
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#4 Jan 14 2004 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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This are some rough damage numbers against Clippers in Qufim, all done as a RNG 23:

Power Bow +1/Beetle Arrow -> 40-45 damage
Crossbow/Acid Bolt -> 35-40 damage
Arqubus/Bullet -> 55-65 damage

When you factor in delay, it's my humble opinion that they all come out about the same, but with arrows being the obviously 'cheaper' alternative :-)

Hope that helps you decide! At least, for the momment.
#5 Jan 14 2004 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Try that comparison with Silver Bullets, and you'll see why guns are good.
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#6 Jan 15 2004 at 4:41 AM Rating: Default
I bought the Arqebus at 22 and tried using gun. I missed a lot and spent tons of money. From what I have heard I am just gonna raise Marks with a crossbow until 50 when you can use silver bullets
#7 Jan 16 2004 at 5:17 AM Rating: Default
imho guns are much to expensive for the small bonus you get when doing normal leveling/farming but when doing things that you need everything you can get out of your char like BCNM i would recomend using a gun
#8 Jan 16 2004 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Odds are if you're a RNG in a BCNM you won't be hitting too much, anyway....
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#9 Jan 16 2004 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I have another question for those of you that spent some time around lvl 22 messing with guns.

How often did you miss when Sharpshot on?

I'm wondering how well it would work to use a crossbow most of the time, then switch to the gun when I use sharpshot, fire one or two rounds, then put the crossbow back. Yeah a bit of a waste, but it'd make sharpshot count for quite a bit more that way. Any ideas on that?
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#10 Jan 17 2004 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Guns are only for show. The best bow will do near the damage of a gun. The best bow in the game will out damage the best gun in a battle. Againist HNM Rangers are worthless in a party, regular NM a rangers does fine. A gun takes almost twice to shoot. Your tp build will be slow, unless you use a Sam sub. But a sam won't help your range accuracy. Rangers are about WS and WS chain, so you got to build up tp. Guns are not reliable in their accuracy, slow tp build up and expensive.
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#11 Jan 17 2004 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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TP built is based on attack delay. Higher delay weapons (like, say, guns) get more TP per hit than lower delay weapons.
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#12 Jan 17 2004 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
As far as the "Rangers are worthless vs. HNM" ...

This is one of those common myths that people have read so much on forums like this... that they belive it to be true.

Wait till you fight one to make that judgement...thanks.
#13 Jan 18 2004 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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That came from a high lvl japanese ranger, so i think he knows what it is like. The prolblem is that you wont get invited into a pt. Hnm are aroun 85-90ish in lvl, with high evade and defense.
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#14 Jan 19 2004 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Im a lvl 24 RDM/ 8 THF. First of all, Im wondering what the h3ll is a HNM. Second, I wanted to know If being Ranger/Ninja would be good. Because Of the Ninja's dual wield (2 nice daggers to use) and since there are daggers / knives that increases ranged accuracy. Is this a good choice to make? I'm building up my archery and dagger skill with this character.
BTW, Im hume.

Diabolos-Xian Lv 24 RDM/ 8 THF / 6 WAR
(Bow and Arrow showoff.)
#15 Jan 19 2004 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe it stands for Highly Notorious Monster. I think there are 4-5 of them. I heard battles can take hours with alliances to defeat.
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#16 Jan 20 2004 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
You are smoking, i was in a japanese party and helped kill HNM named Steelfleece baldarich in kon highlands and i was hitting him fine at lvl 40.
#17 Jan 20 2004 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Steelfleece is just a reqular NM lvl 60-65. What im talking about are Hnm like the Orc God. You where probably fighting Ramapagin Ram, Steelfleece would powned you. Their is a difference in fighting a mob and jus being there in the back ground. Steelfleece has a badass Aoe. One that make lvl 70 think twice before engaging him.
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#18 Jan 20 2004 at 7:19 PM Rating: Default
im not totally sure they are "worthless in hnm/bcnm" i was in a bcnm and was hiting the guy 60-75% of the time at level 38.
#19 Jan 20 2004 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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This may be a stupid question, but I'm still learning the in's and out's of RNG's so I don't feel like a complete idiot asking.

Do RNG's actually miss more? Or is it because our weapons have some of the longest delay's in the game that it gets noticed more.

Even at lvl 17 against most mobs I don't miss often except when my group is fighting something above what we can handle. And even in those cases sharpshot can make up for the difference.
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#20 Jan 23 2004 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That came from a high lvl japanese ranger, so i think he knows what it is like. The prolblem is that you wont get invited into a pt. Hnm are aroun 85-90ish in lvl, with high evade and defense.


LOL why is it that people think these JP players are god, that what they say, must be the absolute truth? LOL and besides, just because you say a JP player told you this on some message board, is suppose to add some sort of validity to your statement?
#21 Jan 23 2004 at 12:01 PM Rating: Default
Why take the words out of context? Why do you choose to focus on jp player and not the high level part? Jp players are statistically much more experienced than NA players. And the fact that it is a high level player signifies experience. Although it isn't 100%, I rather believe a Jp high level player than random posters on a forum.

kthxbye
#22 Jan 23 2004 at 1:49 PM Rating: Default
you start missing less higher you go, well... depends on your gear too, if you have sucky gear, you'll miss more. (duh)
#23 Jan 23 2004 at 1:53 PM Rating: Default
you start missing less higher you go, well... depends on your gear too, if you have sucky gear, you'll miss more. (duh)

Good luck with guns, i plan to stay bow. Bullets are way expensive. With a top notch bow, and top notch ammo, you should be able to do good fairly good amounts of damage. I would use guns if I could afford it. hehe, it's just cool looking
#24 Jan 25 2004 at 1:06 AM Rating: Default
Hi I am a japanese player. Rng sucks...

Yeah thats a lie. People will believe anything...as long as you make funny looking emotes and are high level..You can even make some fake japanese using the Alt-numb pad method.
#25 Jan 25 2004 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Jigensan wrote:

Do RNG's actually miss more? Or is it because our weapons have some of the longest delay's in the game that it gets noticed more.

Even at lvl 17 against most mobs I don't miss often except when my group is fighting something above what we can handle. And even in those cases sharpshot can make up for the difference.


You're right, rangers don't miss any more than melee classes do. Any high level melee is loaded with as much +accuracy equipment as they can afford, and they'll still complain about missing too much. The trick is that as you get higher in level, you have to fight monsters that outlevel you by more to get the same xp. +6/7 mobs are great prior to level 30, but post 50 you'll be fighting stuff that's 10 levels higher than you sometimes. It's not bad if you have a bard in the party - their +accuracy songs are insanely good.
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#26 Jan 25 2004 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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After reading all this talk about guns im really worried they might not be the best choice. On my Warrior i pulled with an x-bow so my marksmanship is gonna be maxed out until level 25 or so.

Knowing that i decided to go crossbow/gun path i wonder how the comparison is between crossbows and guns and which one is better for which level. I do have some bow skill but not nearly as good as my marksmanship.
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#27 Jan 26 2004 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Stanks wrote:
After reading all this talk about guns im really worried they might not be the best choice. On my Warrior i pulled with an x-bow so my marksmanship is gonna be maxed out until level 25 or so.

Knowing that i decided to go crossbow/gun path i wonder how the comparison is between crossbows and guns and which one is better for which level. I do have some bow skill but not nearly as good as my marksmanship.

RNG is not really like other jobs, where you can pick one weapon and stick with it. Post 50, you should really use both. (gun does significantly more damage, but ammo prices are insane even by RNG standards) Prior to LV50, you MUST use a bow at least some of the time. RNG uses x-bow to level Marksmanship, and that's pretty much the only reason to use x-bow. Bows deal more damage than x-bows at almost all levels.
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#28 Jan 27 2004 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
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on an unrelated note...what is the most you can have your ranged accuracy supplemented by? And keep in mind the 2agi = 1ranged acc. thing...cuz im an elf and i dont like missing, but elves miss a lot...so i have a problem, yes? any info about my question is appreciated
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#29 Jan 28 2004 at 1:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the information, I've been leveling some other characters and using bows so my bow skill is somewhat decent now. I guess I'm gonna do both.
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