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The Perfect PartyFollow

#1 Jan 14 2004 at 6:23 AM Rating: Default
6 RL friends of mine are trying to figure out what we want to be, so we can form an absolutely unstoppable perfect group. (lvl 60+) but i need your guys help to find out what job combos and races would make a maximized super group. this is what i have so far.

tarutaru whm/smn - best healer (or so i understand)
tarutaru blm/whm - damager, with healing capabilites, and Escape
tarutaru rdm/blm - another with escape, and mp refresh
elvaan mnk/war - attacker and tank if need be, occasionally
mithra drk/thf - big damage and direct aggro
hume pld/war - tank, with good mp

From what I understand, there is nothing better than a group that looks like this. If you think there should be any changes, pleeeease tell me. thanks.
#2 Jan 14 2004 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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for me, parties that easily link ITs for 200 xp usually include a paly, a backup tank, 2 whmes and whatever else you think that can round it off, usually something that can dish out heavy dmg.

that being said, if you want peak...
taru whm/smn
taru whm/smn
elvan paly/warrior
elvan paly/warrior
mithra ranger/samurai
taru blm/smn

hehe, as you see not very fun, but optimal. id think it be more fun to play with a...
whm/rdm
smn/whm
bard/theif
paly/war
ranger/sammurai <-- can you tell what i am yet? or soon... :p
drk/war

truth is each job/race brings something to the table that can help make your group uber if they know how to use em. nothing worse then a paly that doesnt know how to keep aggro, or a ranger that frontlines more than anything else. Oh, and the instant you see a whm pull out his club... grrr...
#3 Jan 14 2004 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Nekriel has a good grp layout but I believe far from the best. I can't truely comment on grp at 60+ (cause I'm not there yet).

But I know at lvl 41+ rdm become kick **** because of refresh. So I would get rid of one of those WHM and exchance with a RDM/BARD or RDM/WHM I would go with bard because that will help with support over all. Also may think about WHM/BLM BLM has much more "usable" spell wise.

As far as melee I would got with PAL/WAR, and mnk/WAR or Drk/war for backup voking. Then if possible toss a rgn/ (war/thf/nin) into the mix for more damage.
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#4 Jan 14 2004 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I've seen, there are a many cool combinations that work... last night for instance we were chain pulling MOBs for a constant stream of 200+ xp each kill. Party consisted of 2WHMs, 1BLM, 1RNG, 1PLD, 1THF.

Personally I kinda have fun seeing and working new combinations in groups so don't be adverse to suggesting to your friends to maybe go for different things rather then trying to just gear up for that "super group". I did that with friends and as always...different people will have different leveling speeds, so you'll end up playing separately anyway.

From my perspective, I often feel the most comfortable and secure in my group if we have:

2 provokers: one to act as a meat shield like a PLD; the other can be secondary dmg - I'm partial to THFs only because I know how versatile that class can be in emergencies and as a secondary; plus they're dead ****)

2 healers: really not much to say here. But darn boring classes to play IMHO.

2 damage dealers: BLM, RNG.... insert any others here...but we ARE in the Ranger boards yes? :)
#5 Jan 14 2004 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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At the higher levels, your party will experience longer periods of downtimes when leveling. A rdm can help reduce this with refresh and a bard, among other things, can greatly help reduce downtime and speed up the kills.
#6 Jan 14 2004 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
i think more people's opinions need to be posted up. As far as I know, for the most part, a DRK/SAM, RNG/SAM, and RNG/WAR die too often, so for dps, it i think the best is DRK/THF, they got a tiny plus with trick and sneak (even though its every minute) and can combine with the godly guillotine, AND can direct aggro, which completely knowcks off the need for a thief if lvl 60+, they already get the thf's trick and sneak attack (what else do you want a thf for besides TH?"

but yes, i think more lvl 60+ guys gotta post up with their opinions, because that's what im looking at, not hunting mandys in kazham. My friends and I want to make a great xp PT, and a GREAT dungeon PT.
#7 Jan 14 2004 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Elvaan PLD/WAR
Elvaan BRD/WHM
Mithra THF/NIN
Mithra RNG/SAM
Taru WHM/BLM
Taru RDM/BLM
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#8 Jan 14 2004 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
it i think the best is DRK/THF, they got a tiny plus with trick and sneak (even though its every minute) and can combine with the godly guillotine, AND can direct aggro, which completely knowcks off the need for a thief if lvl 60+, they already get the thf's trick and sneak attack (what else do you want a thf for besides TH?


Well, I can't speak from personal experience at a post 60 level...but from partying with a DRK up through the 30's I can say that I'd rather not have the DRK drawing aggro...

I think of DRKs like the opposite of PLDS...awesome damage at the expense of defense. Not to say they aren't good...just not something that I've noticed to work out very well.

Now a good THF on the other hand...plays the primary role of aggro control first...damage second. If you watch any of the uber Japanese folks manage a fight, notice that in many instances they rely on trick attack more then they would provoke. Added to that a THF with a WAR sub is fairly self reliant in such that there are enough skills in their trade to get out of trouble when $^@* hits the fan.

Would a DRK/THF combo be good? Perhaps... we may be arguing the same point - Trick Attack is valuable no matter who's carrying it.

Certainly if I had to recommend my friend to play a class for the pure FUN of it, I'd say a THF is more fun to play then a DRK IMHO. But that's just me...I have a low tolerance for just another boring melee class.

Edited, Wed Jan 14 19:28:01 2004 by Kamena
#9 Jan 15 2004 at 3:10 AM Rating: Default
I agree with this totally, but...

Elvaan PLD/WAR <----best tanks around
Elvaan BRD/WHM <----BRD is needed for a LOT but switch-able for a ST
Mithra THF/NIN <----massive damage & aggro control
Mithra RNG/SAM <----massive damage & TP regen
Taru WHM/BLM <----Need the healer, but I would go with WHM/SUM
Taru RDM/BLM <----Great Nuker + Melee

which isn't a MUST, but you get the general idea. Tank / ST slots, 2 Melee Damage dealing slots, 1 healer slot, 1 Magical Damage slot and normally you want a backup healer in the mix, sometimes 2.

But I STILL think 50% or MORE is really how the group plays and performs as one, you can have all the right classes and races but if they play horribly then it's worse then a group of misfits that KNOW how to play really well.

"Normally what is told to be true is far from it."
#10 Jan 15 2004 at 3:14 AM Rating: Default
oh... and a THF as a sub doesn't work anymore after the nerf over last patch. Sneak Attack and Trick Attack only do 2x damage while the THF is subbed apposed to the 2x TO 10x damage it does while THF is a main job.
#11 Jan 15 2004 at 6:24 AM Rating: Default
now i have been told that with the rdm, there is no need for bard. and that there should be 2 people in group with the blm's spell "Escape" for emergencies. To the person who posted a few posts up, when I said that a drk/thf directs aggro, i didnt mean draw it to himself. i had no intention of a drk taking hits, with Sneak and Trick Attack combined with Guillotine, it should be just as efficient as a fullblown thf/nin, would it not? and it would do great damage. And for RNG/SAM, a lvl 75 RNG/SAM said that he believes a lvl 75 drk/sam does more damage than him, BUT, these combos die too much. I understand that a gorup has to know EXACTLY what they're doing for those job combos to work, so what does it take? from the first post on this thread, I would really like to know what that group layout is lacking, or what it can be improved upon. And remember, im talking about lvl 60+, not doin mandys in kazham or clippers in qufim.
#12 Jan 15 2004 at 7:45 AM Rating: Default
drk/thief will no longer do more dmg then rng/sam if it ever had. (which i highly doubt). this has already been said, but the sub thief multipliers have been set to 2x, doing just a crit hit.

plus you need a ranger to pull, find NMs, or whatever else. and once you weapon skills get up there, nothing can beat em.

i dont know but the set up you have seems boring, id take a bard over a red mage any day. id make the thief as a main, and you must have 2 whmes to pull in 200 xp. this also has been said. 2 healers, 2 tanks, 2 dmg dealers.
#13 Jan 15 2004 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Anonymous wrote:
I agree with this totally, but...

Elvaan PLD/WAR <----best tanks around
Elvaan BRD/WHM <----BRD is needed for a LOT but switch-able for a ST
Mithra THF/NIN <----massive damage & aggro control
Mithra RNG/SAM <----massive damage & TP regen
Taru WHM/BLM <----Need the healer, but I would go with WHM/SUM
Taru RDM/BLM <----Great Nuker + Melee

You're right, dunno what I was thinking, WHM/SMN instead of WHM/BLM.

You can substitute BLM/WHM for RDM/BLM for more damage but more downtime (no Refresh).

If you want a secondary tank, replace RNG/SAM with DRK/WAR or MNK/SAM. Lower damage, though.

Edited, Thu Jan 15 08:45:51 2004 by redvenomweb
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#14 Jan 15 2004 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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"...now i have been told that with the rdm, there is no need for bard."

Forget that trash. RDM and BRD do totally different jobs and should both be in an optimal party. Anyone who doesn't include a BRD just likes to spend more downtime and make less xp plain and simple. BRD = more xp per hour no questions asked. Let's see a RDM up accuracy so everyone hits more thus kills way faster and that = more xp per hour. Let's see a RDM stack spells on BLm and WHM spells. Wow they can't. :) BRD is umlimited casting non-stop with mission critical spells no one else gets like accuracy up and BRD's songs stack. Regen, Paeon 1, Paeon 2 all on the same guy = 6 hp's per 3 seconds. If a RDM can make someone regen 6 hp's per 3 seconds then I'll forget BRD. Same with mp regen. Refresh stacks with Mage's Ballad. What caster would turn down 2 mp regen buffs? Doesn't 2 = more mp? more mp = less downtime? less downtime = more xp? ALWAYS ALWAYS get a BRD :)

Optimal:
WHM
BLM
BRD
PLD
RNG
THF or SAM

PLD can hold aggro himself. THF stands 180 to PLD and has fun all day. RNG and BLM nuke. WHM heals. BRD pumps RNG up, ranged accuracy and attack up. BRD raise mp regen and int/mnd of casters. BRD ups accuracy and attack of THF. BRD ups def of PLD with 2 songs (minne 1 and minne2). This stacks with protect line and PLD abilities to make a very very hard to hit tank who has aggro. Single persn to heal who don't get hit much. When he does he don't take much dmg. You can also chain decently with this mix. SAM can be a good alt as they rock for chaining.
#15 Jan 15 2004 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Elvaan PLD/WAR <----main tank
Elvaan BRD/WHM <----songs + emergency healer
Mithra THF/WAR <----massive damage + emergency aggro control
Mithra RNG/NIN <----massive damage
Taru WHM/BLM <----healer
Taru RDM/BLM <----debuffer + minor nuker/healer + emergency melee

This is a more complete outlook on that existing list. RDM = melee is a joke with a taru no less. SAM sub for RNG = pointless pretty much till 60 main. Any RNG worth anything will want NIN sub anyways for dual archer's daggers which will help way way way more then SAM sub. You lacked backup aggro control. THF should sub WAR for provoke in emerencies. WHM and RDM can pick other subs but they remain the same use.
#16 Jan 15 2004 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Elvaan PLD/WAR
Elvaan BRD/WHM
Mithra THF/NIN
Mithra RNG/SAM
Taru WHM/BLM
Taru RDM/BLM


I see a lot of suggestions for groups having a THF/NIN without a secondary tank, which makes no sense. You need that secondary tank (any melee char w/ sub WAR) for Fuidama to work. It's generally good sense to have a backup tank anyways.

My perfect party?

Elvaan PLD/WAR (main tank)
Mithra SAM/WAR (coordinate skillchains, thief fuidama buddy)
Mithra THF/NIN (puller, treasurefinder, dmg dealer)
Hume RDM/WHM (debuffer, enhancer, refresher, backup nuke/healer)
Tauru WHM/BLM (primary healer)
<insert BLM, RNG, or DRK here> (dmg dealer)


Edited, Fri Jan 16 16:32:56 2004 by subvert
#17 Jan 15 2004 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Xcalibur wrote:

This is a more complete outlook on that existing list. RDM = melee is a joke with a taru no less. SAM sub for RNG = pointless pretty much till 60 main.

You did notice that the original poster asked for HIGH LEVEL parties, right?

I suppose that if your party is not well adjusted to each other, either the THF or the RNG should /WAR... the difference won't be that noticeable.
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#18 Jan 15 2004 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
so if i choose to be a RNG/SAM, am I gonna die my **** off? And I've asked tons of japanese people lvl 75 "who do most damage", and mostly i get rng/war, and a lvl 75 rng/sam told me he think a drk/sam can outdamage him. Now, how do these job combos survive? I heard you do sidewinder 3 times and thats it, mobs hate you like crazy. Soooo, my question is, who does more damage, RNG/WAR, RNG/SAM, DRK/SAM lvl 60+. And how do i prevent dying like no tomorrow?
#19 Jan 15 2004 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
o ya, one more thing. I have been told that in order to survive as a rng/sam, "of course if you're a rng/sam you cant just sidewinder your **** off, you have to hold back", and that the more TP you have, Sidwinder is more ACCURATE. Now...a RNG/NIN....they have AGI bonus which = +Ranged Accuracy, and can hold 2 archer knives = +Ranged Accuracy, and I heard in like 2 shots and 2 dagger swipes, you got 100 tp ready for sidewinder, AND you'll be able to have more Ranged Accuracy with NIN subjob. That being said, lvl 60+ does a RNG/SAM still do more damage than a RNG/NIN? Or do I just have wrong info that a RNG/SAM has to hold back to live. I hvae a feeling its the same...But a bonus is that the NIN has Utsusemi in case you overdamage and suck up hate. Please answer the post above too, lol.
#20 Jan 16 2004 at 5:38 AM Rating: Default
to last post i havent had to much trouble with hate yet (expect for barrage) but if your that worried a level 75/37 would have utsemsi:ichi and ni so he could take 10 hits if hate wasnt recontrolled by then im sorry but you tank is useless. RNG/sam does get third eye which is one attack stoped. my oppion of "perfect pt"
NIN/War
WHM/Sum
RNG/sam
BRD/RDM
Blm/whm
THF/Nin
#21 Jan 16 2004 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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may i ask why bard/rdm?

i given up on my hopes to be a ranger. i want to be a master crafter, and i dont see myself being able to do that having to always spend money for arrows. so ya, starting new, making a whm now for my bard. Which would you rather have? /whm or /rdm?
#22 Jan 16 2004 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
Galka PLD/WAR
Taru RNG/SAM
Taru RNG/NIN
Taru RNG/WAR
Taru SAM/WAR
Taru WHM/SUM

Clearly you need as many rangers as possible! Preferably taru!
#23 Jan 16 2004 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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"may i ask why bard/rdm?....Which would you rather have? /whm or /rdm?"

I play a /WHM and /RDM as BRD. Sometimes a /BLM all depends on what the party needs, has, and what/where were hunting to what I pick. /RDM is my personal favorite as I can cast songs faster by about 1.5 seconds per 8 second song. /WHM is my least favorite. I hate being an emergency healer. Yea like a max of 2-3 cure2's is going to help when monsters hit for 80-100 a round. Mainly use /WHM for divine curaga durning downtime to save WHM some time and mp. /BLM for chaining mainly if needed.
#24 Jan 16 2004 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking going /whm and /bst for my 2 subs. whm for the cool skills like tele, invisible, raise... and bst for the charisma bonus for Major battles. Ill have to think about red now too.
#25 Jan 16 2004 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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You will never get tele spells with whm subbed.
#26 Jan 16 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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/WHM will get Teleport-Dem, Holla, Mea at LV72.
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#27 Jan 16 2004 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll sub WHM for teleports too at 72 :)
#28 Jan 16 2004 at 3:55 PM Rating: Default
man, you guys don't know what the **** you're talking about. here's the ultimate combo...

2 firebat - strong melee splash damage
1 marines - need a bit of range i guess
2 medics - DEFINITELy need two healers so people can stimpack
1 ghost - this is to target the nuke. they look cool to, heheh.

and if you have another friend, throw in a science vessel
#29 Jan 25 2004 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in the perfect party the other day...6 tarus.
#30 Jan 25 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Default
1. brd: best support or mp and hp regen; and all sorts of support
2. whm: less downtime. no brainer
3. pld: main tank. whm sub is better hate generator than voke. Backup healer too.
4. thf: hate control and TH
5. rng or blm: depending on the mob you go for, these two jobs are the most powerful offensive weapons
6. rng or blm

I think this is the best pt for general high lvl killings.
#31 Jan 25 2004 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
man, you guys don't know what the **** you're talking about. here's the ultimate combo...

2 firebat - strong melee splash damage
1 marines - need a bit of range i guess
2 medics - DEFINITELy need two healers so people can stimpack
1 ghost - this is to target the nuke. they look cool to, heheh.

and if you have another friend, throw in a science vessel


ROFL!!!!
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#32 Jan 25 2004 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Taru Brd/Whm
Taru Whm/Blm
Taru Rdm/Blm
Galka Pal/War
Mithra Rng/Sam
Elvaan Drk/Sam

Im not high level, but if pally knows what hes doing i think it would work great. rdm-bard are support, whm heals, pal tanks, rng-drk deal dmg.

comments?
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