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I'm back bishes. If no drg for camp, dmg 20, how to DRK?Follow

#1 Feb 25 2012 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Blah blah blah I came back from a two year break and I'm focusing on DRK first and foremost. If I'm gonna play this tired *****, I'm gonna do the fun stuff and probably never touch BLM again.

So, how do you play DRK?

I've just learned about these Atma thingys and I'm guessing that the 3 I should get for DRK are RR, VV and GH?

Also I hear that GS is now better than Scythe for the average player who doesn't have Apoc. Truefact or just *********

Sub jobs: is rocking /SAM still the norm? I'm not against leveling other jobs from 40-50 just don't want to waste time on non-important ones.

Merits: i heard that Diabolic eye was the *** now, and I guess desperate blows?

Rare/ex weapons: I'm gonna ***** out Raelix for his general ability to know what's best and kick the **** out of things since he's on my server but I was wondering. Are Emperyean weapons possible for the casual player? Walk of Echos (which, as a whole i haven't experienced or understand much of yet) weapons as a possible alternative?

Any random tips and advice would be mucha 'preciated folks.

Cheers.
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#2 Feb 25 2012 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've just learned about these Atma thingys and I'm guessing that the 3 I should get for DRK are RR, VV and GH?
Apoc atma probably the most important imo, you pick it from Shinryu, the big boss of Abyssea.

Quote:
Also I hear that GS is now better than Scythe for the average player who doesn't have Apoc. Truefact or just bullsh*t?
Truefact. Newest greatsword WS is 5hits. I think Raelix's numbers says that empy scythe Redemption is about on par with the best non-relic/empy GS simply because of its high Occ. Deals Double Damage aftermath, but you'd still be spamming Entropy when Aftermath is up.

Quote:
Sub jobs: is rocking /SAM still the norm? I'm not against leveling other jobs from 40-50 just don't want to waste time on non-important ones.
I usually see about as many people on DRK/WAR as on DRK/SAM now since all the TP boosts is meh in Abyssea and Seigan is worthless in Voidwatch.

Quote:
Merits: i heard that Diabolic eye was the *** now, and I guess desperate blows?
Diabolic Eye merits is now 5min cooldown and merits reduce the hp-% effect. I don't think it's worth more than one merit and merited Dark Seal instead.

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Rare/ex weapons: I'm gonna ***** out Raelix for his general ability to know what's best and kick the sh*t out of things since he's on my server but I was wondering. Are Emperyean weapons possible for the casual player? Walk of Echos (which, as a whole i haven't experienced or understand much of yet) weapons as a possible alternative?
Empyrean weapons are very doable by the casual player as many of the NMs up through creating a lv90 weapon can be duo'd. In order to obtain a lv95 empyrean weapon though, you need 1500 Heavy Metal players, which sell for 100k/each right now. This means that a lv95 empy for DRK is really meh since you could just sell the 1500 players and make an Apoc instead and have a better weapon.

Busaman wrote:
So, how do you play DRK?
I don't like talking about my feelings.

Edited, Feb 25th 2012 11:46am by xypin
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#3 Feb 25 2012 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Gracias sir, gracias.
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#4 Feb 25 2012 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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Nah, most important atma for DRK right now is Echoes. **** is insane with both merited WS, but comes from completing ACP. I'll help with this because I need to make a QD Mirke anyway.

Xypin is mixing up a ton of things I've said recently into something I didn't quite say. I never compared Scythe and GS, but I suppose I'll do it now, in pretty wide and vague lumps though. A lot of these, particularly Redemption and Caladbolg, are closer together than you might think. This is just edumacated specumalation and theorycraft to generate a rough tier list based on obtainability, utility, damage output, and general awesomeness:

Outside of Abyssea, nominally /SAM:
OAT GS = Ragnarok > Apoc > Umiliati (Penitence +4) > WSDmg/TPBonus GS > Borealis = 2-4 GS = OAT Scythe > 2-4 Scythe > WSDmg/TPbonus Scythes > Gram/Jingang = Caladbolg lv90 > Redemption lv90 = Wroth/Twilight

OAT GS wins just for being right in the sweet spot of hit-build, multihit rate, base damage, and swinging purely Resolution. Also it's blue.

Ragnarok doesn't exist. Those parses you see are your imagination. You are probably still better off with an Apoc for self-sustain and utility. It's still pretty nuts though mostly because of Resolution.

Apoc has a lot of synergy with Entropy because they can use practically the same WS set. You have infinite sustain of both HP and MP and can wear pretty much whatever the f*ck you want, so TPing in a -PDT set you could probably solo any pre-Abyssea content handily.

Umiliati (Final WoE scythe) is only 3 base damage below a 95 Apoc, only costs maybe 20mil if you bought all your dice and whatever, and /SAM can go Quietus -> Entropy for downright obscene Self-Darkness.

2-4 GS and Scythe hit WS saturation pretty hard, but were buffed pretty good by merit WS being all WSC, so you only lose maybe 25% of your WS damage but WS more than twice as fast. Needs liberal application of Endark though. Good for small events and easy mobs because your damage is very spreadable; you aren't blowing a whole WS just to kill one mob and then have to spend the whole next mob getting TP again, instead getting 100 TP in just two rounds or so and WSing each mob before it even has a TP move ready.

OAT Scythe has a weirdly low base damage, like hardly 10% higher than OAT GS to exactly match in DPS, so loses hard to the better STR mod of Resolution for spamming despite 5-hit (unlike 2-4 Scythe, which gains single-round potential and quite a bit of WS rate from it).

I throw in Gram and Jingang just for accessibility. The latter can be 5-hit, so this maybe under-rating it. They still easily match a lv90 or lower Caladbolg for reasons to follow. Notice the best non-trial Scythes roughly match lv90 Redemption too.

I ding Redemption and Caladbolg for three reasons that make them downright lulzy and anyone making either at this point needs to be slapped in the face:

1. Crappy hitbuilds. You will gimp the **** out of yourself with Tactical Mantle and junk just trying to read 5-hit or 6-hit respectively. Hagneia Stone and Houyi's Gorget may have alleviated this, but then you hit the other two factors.

2. ODD Aftermath barely makes up for having to use lolQuietus or lolTorcleaver to activate it. Trying to Sekkanoki Self-SC Quietus -> Entropy only gets you a level 1 aftermath out of it, and Torcleaver -> Resolution doesn't chain. DRK is a WS *****. We don't have the crit rate and bonuses for ODD to be more than a 10% bonus to total damage anymore, especially with the even further boosted WS output of Reso/Entropy pushing us closer to 35:65 or even 30:70 splits. 30% ODD on 30% of your damage is a laughable 9% more damage.

3. Heavy Metal Plates. That's a stupidly huge investment for a ****** average weapon. DRK and DRG can ignore their Empyrean weapons for good reason and benefit.

4. They look stupid. One looks like an emo boat paddle, the other like a colibri on a stick. I should have said I had three good reasons...

Inside Abyssea, nominally DRK/MNK RR/GH/RL like a boss:
Highest base damage you can get generally wins. Wroth is nice for more Crit damage bonus on counters. Resolution goes better with the STR from Roaring Laughter. Multihit weapons are fantastic for proc reads.

This is when I say 'Specialization is for Insects'. You're better off having two differently functioning weapons in the middle of the group above than having one of the top tiers, because having the flexibility to go /MNK in Abyssea but still spam WS /SAM everywhere else will give you more 'career damage output' than being able to e-peen top parse in Voidwatch.

So it all comes full circle: A good DRK should once again have both Scythe and Great Sword handly. Any DRK that sits on one weapon or the other and refuses to adapt to the many situations they'll face is a just a tard.
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#5 Feb 26 2012 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Phew, massive post to answer just two questions. Let's keep going...

Subjobs:
/SAM is still awesome. People got this stupid idea recently that hitbuilds aren't important if you have lots of Double Attack. They are twits, we are not WAR. You should always seek your best hitbuild, it just doesn't always require /SAM and you get more out of Berserk when you need that much attack (which is maybe three mobs in the entire **** game). I f*cking hate when people underestimate just how much attack DRK can get. Having to explain to them that 1000 attack is easy for a DRK gets old fast.

/DRG is having a huge comeback with OAT and 2-4 weapons because of the shortened jump timers. You now easily get more TP than from Meditate over time while dishing out nice spike damage with a little hate management. Because hate caps so fast now, it's nice to be able to drop your hate even just a little bit for a nice 30 second respite. Also the best way to work an Enhances Souleater piece and other helpful stats into your zerging set again with Wyvern Earring.

/DNC with 2-4 GS or 2-4 Scythe... 'nuff said really. You kill things in half the time of any other DNC or /DNC because you can WS freely and still usually get enough TP for a heal faster than the cooldown and have the fallbacks of two stuns and Dread Spikes, not to mention your Drain Samba II is giving you a Cure 1 on every hit. I was soloing WoE crabs and antlions at 80-85 and killing them in half the time as other soloists. As long as there's no ******** involved (F*cking moron Adelheid that I can't get the mobs off of before she dies) you can solo most of the old content of the game.

Diabolic Eye and Dark Seal have not been changed yet. There are people who still swear by DE even though you'll only need it for three mobs in the whole ******* game. Meanwhile Dark Seal is looking like it will also cut the cooldown of the spell you use it on by 10% per merit, so with decent haste and if this bypasses the 50% reduction cap you could be looking at back-to-back Dread Spikes.

This goes further that the 'Enhances Dark Seal' augment on the Relic +2 helm gives +10% duration per merit to anything but Drain II, and you can be looking at a 90 second Dread Spikes followed by a second Dread Spikes as needed. Meathead DD-onry DRKs will cry 'but Dread Spikes never lasts that long!' because they're nitwits and don't cast a Nether Voided (+50% potency) Drain II before it.

So what do you want:

1. +20 accuracy for four out of five minutes that you'll never need or use anyway

or

2. +50% duration, -50% recast, and stupid amounts of magic accuracy for one of our best and most usable spells, and one of the very spells that elevates DRK above the other boring defenseless DDs that the Meathead DD-Onry DRKs are trying to emulate?

DRK is one of the best DDs at managing themselves when they have hate for a short duration. Situations and NMs that would faceroll a WAR or MNK just get laughed at by a DRK dropping two stuns, Dread Spikes, and rolling Seigan without losing JA haste. Who the **** would want a paltry +20 accuracy over enhancing that specialty?
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

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#6 Feb 27 2012 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Well luckily I have ACP completed all ready. I only have the one open atma slot atm, the one you buy for 100K. Still haven't done any of the 9 Aby quests. And I uncapped myself to 95 today...getting **** done.
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#7 Feb 27 2012 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't forget the six caturae.

Let's DO THIS!

***********... did I sum up like the last ten threads of discussion in two posts? I think I did...[/sm]
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#8 Feb 27 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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I'm here for two reasons:

1. I was bored and missed this game.

2. I want to give you a chance to ramble to your hearts content.
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#9 Feb 28 2012 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, I've been looking into the Atmas and it seems like VV is the tits and I would need to defeat Eccentric Eve.

Spawning requires a player to have five different Key Items from five different NMs. Long question short, do you lose those Key Items or is there a high chance that people who have been doing Abyssea for a year now will just commonly have them?
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#10 Feb 28 2012 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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You lose the KIs when you pop. I have the Peiste KI, which is the hard part, but you can get all of the KIs out of gold chests easily.

VV is only the tip of the mighty Abyssea e-peen though. You'll want Razed Ruin, Roaring Laughter, Gnarled Horn, Stout Arm, Griffon's Claw, Lion, and of course Apocalypse. If you're serious about mages you'll want Minikin Monstrosity. Usually you just farm the pop, offer it up to your LS, and everyone comes together to red proc and kill it for the few people who usually need the Atma.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#11 Feb 28 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Are you playing tonight? I might be on and bored as **** if I can't find an exp pt.
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#12 Feb 29 2012 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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First night hunting NMs I get 9/10 Bale body seals...goddamnit
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#13 Mar 02 2012 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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I see you rate the TP Bonus GS rather highly. I also assume that your comparing the final form 110 dmg GS. Does the bonus really overtake the extra 16 dmg from Borealis?
I'm honestly curious and dunno about the maths, I just see a much larger damaging weapon, that's look's pretty sweet being of lower value to a weapon that is pretty easy to get. Really? only 4 other weapons beat it and two of em are relics. Though I don't even have Kauriraris yet myself cause I'm lazy, but I guess I should get my *** into gear if it's that good.
Also anyone know what the Borealis proc actually does yet?
#14 Mar 02 2012 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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456 delay is 6-hit capable, IIRC. 480 isn't high enough to 5-hit, so the higher base damage is offset by equally higher delay, so the difference in TP phase is marginal.

Best I know Borealis has some extra stupid low proc rate of 5-10% for only +50% WS Damage (the latter I'm fairly sure about). So it works just like a +2.5-5% WS Damage sword, just way spottier and all about epeen.

When you've got well over 350 base damage after WSC, 16 base damage on weapon is a paltry 4.5% increase.

So if you take those together, Borealis has about +10% WS Damage over a vanilla 110 damage GS.

But the TP Bonus GS works out to +13.6% WS Damage, and the +10% WS Damage sword has +7 base damage.

Borealis is in the right place.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
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#15 Mar 02 2012 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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I'm trying to look up the entire magian path to get to the OAT GS but I can't find a site that has every trial listed clearly.
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#16 Mar 02 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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I think all the trials are listed here: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Great_Sword_Trials

If you want to know about a specific trial, can ask about it here since we're probably aware of where everything comes from.
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#17 Mar 03 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks guys, I think for the time being I'm going to hunt down the Scythe from the pixie Fauth and the GS from Sisyphus. I just need something free/rare ex/not as terribad as Balins/Perdu for right now.
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#18 Mar 03 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Make sure to pick up a Twilight Scythe when you get to that point. The ability to ignore PDT is invaluable for some events.
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#19 Mar 03 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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There's a reason I mentioned Gram and Jingang in my post. They're the best 'easy vanilla' swords you can get, and you can get them from the ******* AH.

Fuath is an intolerable *****, but I'll do her for ardor coins since I still need like 12 more. Woeborn is good though, but again you can just buy a Sortilege Scythe.
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Vlorsutes wrote:
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#20 Mar 03 2012 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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I was trying to not blow the 3mil I have at the moment. I want to ride this gil till the cows come home.
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#21 Mar 03 2012 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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You won't need that gil for any of your primary equipment but main weapon, which is the biggest performance difference anyway. Everything else you should be using is Rare/Ex.

And it's not like you can't just resell the thing when you get a TotM up to snuff with it, just like I did with Gram just now. Sold it for 100k profit actually, then dumped that into Riftsand and Mirrors for my OAT GS :D

Edited, Mar 3rd 2012 9:55am by Raelix
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#22 Mar 03 2012 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
I think all the trials are listed here: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Great_Sword_Trials

If you want to know about a specific trial, can ask about it here since we're probably aware of where everything comes from.


Just to clarify, does the Fulgurante not recieve +DMG and OAT until the Rift Sand trial is complete? Or is that like a 90->95 upgrade trial?
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#23 Mar 03 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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It gets +DMG and OAT after the Krabkatoa shell trial.

I'm sitting on 150 Riftsand and 125 Silver Mirrors. Krab is the cockblock right now...
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#24 Mar 03 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Riftsand is the lv99 trial, I believe.

Following that set of trials, you will receive OAT on the weapon after Trial 226 and you'll keep it until the end. The total damage of the weapon should increase with each trial, or at the very least, never decrease.
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#25 Mar 03 2012 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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There's a bunch of junk from the abyssea 'minigames' (Bastion and Dominion) I have to collect too, but those are rather academic. The Souls cost less than a couple NQ Empy legs that come from the same system, and I have more Dominion Notes than I know what to do with, so Shades will be easier to get than to make inventory space for XD

Krabshells->Stingers->Nuggets->Souls->Shades->Mirrors->Riftsand

The fact that these can all be collected at once though is awesome.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

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Vlorsutes wrote:
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You're new here, aren't you?
#26 Mar 03 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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And the shells/stingers come from NMs that are related to VW or WoE? I'm still looking into those events.

Also wtf is up with NeoNyzul and Legion? Both look retardedly difficult.
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