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3 questions for DarkknightsFollow

#1 Jul 06 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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hello im thinking of being a darkknight and i have a few questions i would like to ask so i have a better idea of what im getting into before i spend alot of time and money on the job. i like the idea of being able to use spells too but are the spells even worth using? also could somebody tell me stuff like the highs and lows about being a DRK and last how good of a DD is DRK can they do more damage then DRG SAM?

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:13pm by x1Raziel
#2 Jul 06 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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x1Raziel wrote:
Hello, I'm thinking of being a DRK and I have a few questions I would like to ask to have a better idea of what I'm getting into before I spend a lot of time and money on the job. I like the idea of being able to use spells and melee, but are the spells even worth using? What are the pros and cons about being a DRK? and lastly, how good of a DD is DRK? can the job do more damage than DRG or SAM?
Inside Abyssea, WHM would be a better DD than DRK. Outside, DRK is one of the top DDs, but results will vary greatly with your performance as with any job.

If you are trying to pick the top DD job, then avoid DRK. Not because it's a sh*tty DD, but because it's not a job you can just pick up and crush everyone else. SAM is an easier job as it does not require much work/effort/attention to instantly be a decent DD. Of course, the game is already at its limit of pink galka MNKs, NINs, and white SAMs.

As far as spells go, DRK has some useful spells and a lot of useless ones. You will never use elemental magic as a source of practical damage. Instead, a DRK tends to make liberal use of Dread Spikes, Stun, Endark, Absorb-TP*, Drain*, and Aspir*. While Enfeebling Magic is DRK's weakest skill it can occasionally save you with sleep and bind, (and possibly break?).

I can't give you pros and cons of the job, but rather I'll give the two main reasons I enjoy DRK:
  • The job is incredibly versatile and somewhat self-sufficient. It is possible to tank, DD, and offer support with DRK.
  • DRK feels like more of a cult job (though not so much as PUP or COR) and it will probably never become a bandwagon job again.**
Also, please try to type/spell properly. If not, we get headaches, you look like a troll, and the end result is us not wanting to answer questions.



*Just not in Abyssea
**Actually, I'm worried about this one... Last Resort update shows SE isn't so upset about us setting fire to their pet Aern and then taking a **** on it.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 1:41pm by xypin
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#3 Jul 06 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
If you are trying to pick the top DD job, then avoid DRK. Not because it's a sh*tty DD, but because it's not a job you can just pick up and crush everyone else. SAM is an easier job as it does not require much work/effort/attention to instantly be a decent DD.


Not as easy as WAR...im still a white WAR as I just started lvling it and just got it past 80, and the simplicity in dealing acceptable damage as WAR is ridiculous, and not just WS damage, WAR double attack is godly coupled with extremely damaging crits...its not even fair, and now im not allowed to be DRK nemore
#4 Jul 06 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Finuve wrote:
xypin wrote:
If you are trying to pick the top DD job, then avoid DRK. Not because it's a sh*tty DD, but because it's not a job you can just pick up and crush everyone else. SAM is an easier job as it does not require much work/effort/attention to instantly be a decent DD.
Not as easy as WAR...im still a white WAR as I just started lvling it and just got it past 80, and the simplicity in dealing acceptable damage as WAR is ridiculous, and not just WS damage, WAR double attack is godly coupled with extremely damaging crits...its not even fair, and now im not allowed to be DRK nemore
Serves you right for leveling another job!
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#5 Jul 06 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Default
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xypin wrote:
[quote=x1Raziel]Hello, I'm thinking of being a DRK and I have a few questions I would like to ask to have a better idea of what I'm getting into before I spend a lot of time and money on the job. I like the idea of being able to use spells and melee, but are the spells even worth using? What are the pros and cons about being a DRK? and lastly, how good of a DD is DRK? can the job do more damage than DRG or SAM?
Inside Abyssea, WHM would be a better DD than DRK. Outside, DRK is one of the top DDs, but results will vary greatly with your performance as with any job.


[/ul]Also, please try to type/spell properly. If not, we get headaches, you look like a troll, and the end result is us not wanting to answer questions.



lol dam man i ask a few questions about the job and i get called a troll. english is not my first language im sorry if i miss spelled a word or two. i dont know why you say i look like a troll im not 100% sure what a troll is but i think its somebody the says stuff to offend people or try to get them mad. and i dont see how my message would seem as that
i can see why my friends dont like to use forums its got to the point were you cant post anything without getting insulted by someone or getting into argument. dont get me wrong what you said was not even that bad i was just laughing and was like dam i cant even ask something without getting insulted also reminded me of other times somebody would post something and some pric would come online and start talking crap for nothing lol anyways thanks for the awnsers im done with this ill just ask some mentors online

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:37pm by x1Raziel
#6 Jul 06 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
Finuve wrote:
xypin wrote:
If you are trying to pick the top DD job, then avoid DRK. Not because it's a sh*tty DD, but because it's not a job you can just pick up and crush everyone else. SAM is an easier job as it does not require much work/effort/attention to instantly be a decent DD.
Not as easy as WAR...im still a white WAR as I just started lvling it and just got it past 80, and the simplicity in dealing acceptable damage as WAR is ridiculous, and not just WS damage, WAR double attack is godly coupled with extremely damaging crits...its not even fair, and now im not allowed to be DRK nemore
Serves you right for leveling another job!

probably does...but shells dont like to help people that cant be more useful when others need help...so I levelled WAR for red procs so i can get a redemption that I wont get to use
#7 Jul 06 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
xypin wrote:
Also, please try to type/spell properly. If not, we get headaches, you look like a troll, and the end result is us not wanting to answer questions.
lol dam man i ask a few questions about the job and i get called a troll. english is not my first language im sorry if i miss spelled a word or two.
You're missing the point as it was a suggestion, not an insult. I did not call you a troll and even answered your questions without sarcastic remarks*.

Since you've already misunderstood the original statement, I might as well go into why it is important to put effort into posts on a forum.

You've come here asking for help, but we're free to give it if we want. Typically, when asking someone for assistance, you want to be respectful of that person because you're more likely to receive responses. This is where putting a little effort into your typing can go a long way. Simple things such as capitalizing your sentences and 'i' or using apostrophes help to make your posts more readable. The best part is it only takes several seconds to review what you have written before clicking "Post". Not putting for that little effort can make someone appear as lazy and disrespectful.

Most people on this forum realize there are readers that do not have English as their first language. No one is expecting posters to have absolutely correct English. I know my English isn't absolutely correct and I certainly do not expect someone to use the correct verb tenses. Just focus on the little things to make any posts much more readable and that will go a long way on any forum.




*Ok, there was the WHM comment... but that wasn't really sarcasm because sort of true- or was at one point. In Abyssea, DRK is a sh*tty DD. We have no weaponskill that can take advantage of critical hit dmg+%. Even our empy weaponskills are only a sad joke compared to the standard weaponskills of other jobs. The only difference is that DRK got a big update, making it a stronger job, but we still can't compare to 6000+ dmg Ukkos.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:28pm by xypin
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#8 Jul 06 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Finuve wrote:
xypin wrote:
Finuve wrote:
xypin wrote:
If you are trying to pick the top DD job, then avoid DRK. Not because it's a sh*tty DD, but because it's not a job you can just pick up and crush everyone else. SAM is an easier job as it does not require much work/effort/attention to instantly be a decent DD.
Not as easy as WAR...im still a white WAR as I just started lvling it and just got it past 80, and the simplicity in dealing acceptable damage as WAR is ridiculous, and not just WS damage, WAR double attack is godly coupled with extremely damaging crits...its not even fair, and now im not allowed to be DRK nemore
Serves you right for leveling another job!
probably does...but shells dont like to help people that cant be more useful when others need help...so I levelled WAR for red procs so i can get a redemption that I wont get to use
I got lucky. My linkshell has THF + NIN + WHM. So I show up on DRK and we have all red procs except Polearm covered. I can count the number of times Polearm has shown up as a proc. Most of the time, we get the KI anyway and there has only been one situation that required someone to do a job change ******** Ophanim).
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#9 Jul 06 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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DRK is currently one of the least effective DDs in the game. People keep saying "outside of Abyssea....", honestly, there is no outside of Abyssea. Despite SE's efforts to introduce new events like Voidwatch, and reinvigorate Dynamis, the game is still unfortunately all about Abyssea, and will be for the foreseeable future.

I have both Quietus and Ukko's Fury, and UF is much better than Quietus literally anywhere, inside or out of Abyssea. Our WS pale in comparison to Victory Smite, Rudra's Storm, and even non-crit Empyrean WSs like Fudo.

Sadly Torcleaver sucks in comparison too. DRK got the shaft on both of it's new WSs.

The easiest say to put DRK back in the game is give us a crit based WS. Preferably Quietus, because making any other WS crit based will render Penitence +2 and Redemption obsolete. Or, make Quietus ignore more DEF, or make it do something crazy like 6x damage instead of 3x.

I know this sounds like I'm sh*tting on DRK....but I'm a career DRK. I have been since day 1 on PC in the U.S. DRK is in terrible shape at the moment, and this can't be soft-padded or down played. SE needs to give us a fix, and fast. The Last Resort stuff was nice, but it's like a band-aide on a broken leg.
#10 Jul 06 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hexagram wrote:
Make Quietus ignore more DEF, or make it do something crazy like 6x damage instead of 3x.
At the very least, I'd like to see Quietus ignore damage resistances or something along those lines. Some extra effect that can't be nullified with an insane amount of attack.

Also- all relic/mythic/empy ws's need to have 100% accuracy on first hit with upgraded weapon. That's more of a pipe dream though...
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#11 Jul 06 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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I really hope SE gives DRK something monumental in this next update....I'm tired of playing WAR....I hate WAR now. I leveled it because it seemed fun 2ish years ago, and it was, but now I can never play DRK because of it.

I have the option available to me, to either do Redemption or Ukonvasara. The obvious choice would be GA, but if I upgrade it DRK is basically done. I'll never be able to play it again.
#12 Jul 06 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Or you can learn how to play 'New' DRK in Abyssea and go /MNK tank things in a -40 pdt set while turning out 650 damage counters... and you can be healed by a RDM. Or you try one of the exotic multihit builds for Infernal or Herculean.

ITT: Meatheads think DRK is only a Swing and WS DD.

'Outside Abyssea' is still a huge stipulation when you see Ascetic's Fury drop to ~1400 average and Ukko gets about 1800 unless they stack every buff they've got, and DRK still WSes more often than either of them. Quietus, Torc, and even Fudo just happily keep cranking. At the very least DRK is consistent.

With nine more levels coming our way in the future, I expect two things:

1. Abyssea will become utterly trivial.

2. SE will introduce non-Abyssea upgrades for Empyrean weapons which will even the score almost perfectly.
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#13 Jul 06 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
Or you can learn how to play 'New' DRK in Abyssea and go /MNK tank things in a -40 pdt set while turning out 650 damage counters... and you can be healed by a RDM. Or you try one of the exotic multihit builds for Infernal or Herculean.

ITT: Meatheads think DRK is only a Swing and WS DD.

'Outside Abyssea' is still a huge stipulation when you see Ascetic's Fury drop to ~1400 average and Ukko gets about 1800 unless they stack every buff they've got, and DRK still WSes more often than either of them. Quietus, Torc, and even Fudo just happily keep cranking. At the very least DRK is consistent.

With nine more levels coming our way in the future, I expect two things:

1. Abyssea will become utterly trivial.

2. SE will introduce non-Abyssea upgrades for Empyrean weapons which will even the score almost perfectly.


The fact that you have to use a formerly laughable sub job, and custom gear set to even be useful, is proof positive that DRK needs to be fixed.

And no offense, but it's this "adapt to the sh*tty circumstances" mindstate that will keep DRK from getting the boost it needs. I'm sorry, but no other melee job has to bend over backwards to be competitive.

MNK and WAR trump DRK easily in the DoT department, in addition to having better WS inside and outside of Abyssea. I dunno if you party with some terrible WARs or what, but no WS DRK has comes remotely close to Ukko's Fury, anywhere.

Or Fudo for that matter. Or Victory Smite. Inside or outside of Abyssea.

Lastly, I'm asking for a fix for the problems we currently have. You're assuming the problems will go away based on Abyssea becoming trivial....which is extremely unlikely. SE already said they want AF3+2 to be the new "king gear"....and Empyreans are the new relics. Abyssea isn't going anywhere, even if they do add new end game events, because the rewards are too good.

In order for Torcleaver and Quietus to be competitive they'd have to either boost the mods ridiculously, or make them crit based. That's about it.

#14 Jul 06 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Default
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That was just painful to read. If your grammatical abilities are any indication of your intelligence, you'd be better off playing MNK.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 7:16pm by Turin
#15 Jul 06 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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Huh?


Edited, Jul 6th 2011 6:13pm by Hexagram
#16 Jul 06 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Hexagram wrote:
Huh?


Edited, Jul 6th 2011 6:13pm by Hexagram


Not you, the OP.
#17 Jul 06 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
That was just painful to read. If your grammatical abilities are any indication of your intelligence, you'd be better off playing MNK.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 7:16pm by Turin

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#18 Jul 06 2011 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Hexagram wrote:
The fact that you have to use a formerly laughable sub job, and custom gear set to even be useful, is proof positive that DRK needs to be fixed.

That you would imply the sub is still laughable fully shows you don't know **** about the concept.

Who honestly gives a flying f*ck if other jobs outdamage DRK in Abyssea if it can still get **** done just the same? And I'm not talking 'take twice as long to kill something', DRK/MNK tears **** up so long as it has hate plus you have two stuns for hate reset moves. This isn't 'limp along doing whatever you can', its 'stop being a whiny sack of **** and play DRK because "f*ck you!"'

All offense intended, you are being the meathead 'must only deal damage' DD stereotype I was pointing out.

AF and Ukko aren't as obscenely strong outside of Abyssea. This makes a huge difference in comparing DRK to these DDs, and the gap is likely a lot smaller than anyone realizes.

Go back to WAR. Nobody really cares if you ever play DRK again.
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#19 Jul 06 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
Hexagram wrote:
The fact that you have to use a formerly laughable sub job, and custom gear set to even be useful, is proof positive that DRK needs to be fixed.

That you would imply the sub is still laughable fully shows you don't know **** about the concept.

Who honestly gives a flying f*ck if other jobs outdamage DRK in Abyssea if it can still get sh*t done just the same? And I'm not talking 'take twice as long to kill something', DRK/MNK tears sh*t up so long as it has hate plus you have two stuns for hate reset moves. This isn't 'limp along doing whatever you can', its 'stop being a whiny sack of sh*t and play DRK because "f*ck you!"'

All offense intended, you are being the meathead 'must only deal damage' DD stereotype I was pointing out.

AF and Ukko aren't as obscenely strong outside of Abyssea. This makes a huge difference in comparing DRK to these DDs, and the gap is likely a lot smaller than anyone realizes.

Go back to WAR. Nobody really cares if you ever play DRK again.


You're a clown. Calm down. Your attitude doesn't impress me in the least.

First off, /MNK isn't a fix specifically for DRK. Yes you can get stuff done with that sub job....guess what, you're going to have to because DRK isn't in demand right now. You aren't doing it because it "works"....you're doing it because nobody wants you on DRK. Let's be real here for a second.

DRK has always been a spike damage job. Period. I dunno if you're a new jack DRK or what, but there was never a period in DRK's existence in FFXI that we were anything other than heavy melee/damage, with a bit of magic thrown in. So I'm not asking them to re-invent the wheel here.

You flat out have no idea what you're talking about to say there isn't a significant difference in DRK's WSs, and Ukko's Fury for example. Period. That's all I can say. I got both WSs, and the difference is night and day everywhere, inside or outside of Abyssea.

Lastly, DRK isn't really good at anything now. Other jobs can nuke better than us, enfeeble better than us, melee better than us, and WS better than us. Which is why DRK is one of the least popular melee classes, and is currently more or less obsolete. If you want to barely scrape by on /MNK because nobody wants you, go for it. I expect more out of DRK.
#20 Jul 06 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hexagram wrote:
Lastly, DRK isn't really good at anything now.
I'd like to point out that DRK is one of the best red/blue proc jobs out there. Of course, this doesn't change anything, but DRK does have a useful aspect in Abyssea.
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#21 Jul 06 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
I'd like to point out that DRK is one of the best red/blue proc jobs out there. Of course, this doesn't change anything, but DRK does have a useful aspect in Abyssea.


While this is true nobody is going to invite a DRK solely to hit red/blue/yellow. I've yet to have it happen, and I literally look for any reason to get on my DRK.

People would rather I come on WAR for red/blue, with a NIN. And a couple mages for yellow. That about covers all you need in Abyssea for red/yellow, and for blue you can add a MNK.
#22 Jul 06 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Unfortunately, that is too true Smiley: frown
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#23 Jul 06 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Hexagram wrote:
The fact that you have to use a formerly laughable sub job, and custom gear set to even be useful, is proof positive that DRK needs to be fixed.

And no offense, but it's this "adapt to the sh*tty circumstances" mindstate that will keep DRK from getting the boost it needs. I'm sorry, but no other melee job has to bend over backwards to be competitive.


what kind of idiot logic is this? /SAM was a formerly laughable sub before hasso, and without it, 2h DDs would never have caught up with MNKs and WARs would still be using ridills (until the level cap raise at least; don't remember how mechanics changed after that). /MNK becomes not-laughable as soon as MAIN/ can use counterstance, surely.

re: bending over backwards, potential is potential. if it's there, you can reach it. if ffxi is too hard for you... i don't even know how to end that sentence, the concept is too outrageous.
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#24 Jul 06 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
Unfortunately, that is too true Smiley: frown


And this is typical of DRK's problem. Jack of all trades, master of none. We can enfeeble, melee, nuke, hit red/yellow/blue but other jobs can do these things individually better than us, while bringing more to the table over all.
#25 Jul 06 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
what kind of idiot logic is this? /SAM was a formerly laughable sub before hasso, and without it, 2h DDs would never have caught up with MNKs and WARs would still be using ridills (until the level cap raise at least; don't remember how mechanics changed after that). /MNK becomes not-laughable as soon as MAIN/ can use counterstance, surely.

re: bending over backwards, potential is potential. if it's there, you can reach it. if ffxi is too hard for you... i don't even know how to end that sentence, the concept is too outrageous.


Your comparison makes zero sense. /SAM became the norm for melee virtually across the board, in any given scenario, because SE boosted it to do just that. Become the sub job of choice.

/MNK isn't the norm outside of Abyssea. It isn't the norm anywhere else, nor will it ever be unless it receives a make-over similar to /SAM. In addition to this, the sole reason to go DRK/MNK is because you have to....why? Because DRK isn't in demand and you have to low man everything.

As far as your last little comment, I have just about the best gear on DRK and WAR, barring a piece or two. So the game isn't hard, at all, nor is it's difficulty related to anything we're talking about.
#26 Jul 06 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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bend over backwards is talking about difficulty. do you have vocabulary trouble?

if /MNK makes DRK work, then you should level it. if not, you shouldn't. talking about "formerly" bad subjobs is idiotic. who cares?

edit: typo.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 10:40pm by milich
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