3 questions for DarkknightsFollow

hello im thinking of being a darkknight and i have a few questions i would like to ask so i have a better idea of what im getting into before i spend alot of time and money on the job. i like the idea of being able to use spells too but are the spells even worth using? also could somebody tell me stuff like the highs and lows about being a DRK and last how good of a DD is DRK can they do more damage then DRG SAM?

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:13pm by x1Raziel

Not as easy as WAR...im still a white WAR as I just started lvling it and just got it past 80, and the simplicity in dealing acceptable damage as WAR is ridiculous, and not just WS damage, WAR double attack is godly coupled with extremely damaging crits...its not even fair, and now im not allowed to be DRK nemore

Inside Abyssea, WHM would be a better DD than DRK. Outside, DRK is one of the top DDs, but results will vary greatly with your performance as with any job.


[/ul]Also, please try to type/spell properly. If not, we get headaches, you look like a troll, and the end result is us not wanting to answer questions.



lol dam man i ask a few questions about the job and i get called a troll. english is not my first language im sorry if i miss spelled a word or two. i dont know why you say i look like a troll im not 100% sure what a troll is but i think its somebody the says stuff to offend people or try to get them mad. and i dont see how my message would seem as that
i can see why my friends dont like to use forums its got to the point were you cant post anything without getting insulted by someone or getting into argument. dont get me wrong what you said was not even that bad i was just laughing and was like dam i cant even ask something without getting insulted also reminded me of other times somebody would post something and some pric would come online and start talking crap for nothing lol anyways thanks for the awnsers im done with this ill just ask some mentors online

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:37pm by x1Raziel

You're missing the point as it was a suggestion, not an insult. I did not call you a troll and even answered your questions without sarcastic remarks*.

Since you've already misunderstood the original statement, I might as well go into why it is important to put effort into posts on a forum.

You've come here asking for help, but we're free to give it if we want. Typically, when asking someone for assistance, you want to be respectful of that person because you're more likely to receive responses. This is where putting a little effort into your typing can go a long way. Simple things such as capitalizing your sentences and 'i' or using apostrophes help to make your posts more readable. The best part is it only takes several seconds to review what you have written before clicking "Post". Not putting for that little effort can make someone appear as lazy and disrespectful.

Most people on this forum realize there are readers that do not have English as their first language. No one is expecting posters to have absolutely correct English. I know my English isn't absolutely correct and I certainly do not expect someone to use the correct verb tenses. Just focus on the little things to make any posts much more readable and that will go a long way on any forum.




*Ok, there was the WHM comment... but that wasn't really sarcasm because sort of true- or was at one point. In Abyssea, DRK is a sh*tty DD. We have no weaponskill that can take advantage of critical hit dmg+%. Even our empy weaponskills are only a sad joke compared to the standard weaponskills of other jobs. The only difference is that DRK got a big update, making it a stronger job, but we still can't compare to 6000+ dmg Ukkos.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 3:28pm by xypin

DRK is currently one of the least effective DDs in the game. People keep saying "outside of Abyssea....", honestly, there is no outside of Abyssea. Despite SE's efforts to introduce new events like Voidwatch, and reinvigorate Dynamis, the game is still unfortunately all about Abyssea, and will be for the foreseeable future.

I have both Quietus and Ukko's Fury, and UF is much better than Quietus literally anywhere, inside or out of Abyssea. Our WS pale in comparison to Victory Smite, Rudra's Storm, and even non-crit Empyrean WSs like Fudo.

Sadly Torcleaver sucks in comparison too. DRK got the shaft on both of it's new WSs.

The easiest say to put DRK back in the game is give us a crit based WS. Preferably Quietus, because making any other WS crit based will render Penitence +2 and Redemption obsolete. Or, make Quietus ignore more DEF, or make it do something crazy like 6x damage instead of 3x.

I know this sounds like I'm sh*tting on DRK....but I'm a career DRK. I have been since day 1 on PC in the U.S. DRK is in terrible shape at the moment, and this can't be soft-padded or down played. SE needs to give us a fix, and fast. The Last Resort stuff was nice, but it's like a band-aide on a broken leg.

I really hope SE gives DRK something monumental in this next update....I'm tired of playing WAR....I hate WAR now. I leveled it because it seemed fun 2ish years ago, and it was, but now I can never play DRK because of it.

I have the option available to me, to either do Redemption or Ukonvasara. The obvious choice would be GA, but if I upgrade it DRK is basically done. I'll never be able to play it again.

The fact that you have to use a formerly laughable sub job, and custom gear set to even be useful, is proof positive that DRK needs to be fixed.

And no offense, but it's this "adapt to the sh*tty circumstances" mindstate that will keep DRK from getting the boost it needs. I'm sorry, but no other melee job has to bend over backwards to be competitive.

MNK and WAR trump DRK easily in the DoT department, in addition to having better WS inside and outside of Abyssea. I dunno if you party with some terrible WARs or what, but no WS DRK has comes remotely close to Ukko's Fury, anywhere.

Or Fudo for that matter. Or Victory Smite. Inside or outside of Abyssea.

Lastly, I'm asking for a fix for the problems we currently have. You're assuming the problems will go away based on Abyssea becoming trivial....which is extremely unlikely. SE already said they want AF3+2 to be the new "king gear"....and Empyreans are the new relics. Abyssea isn't going anywhere, even if they do add new end game events, because the rewards are too good.

In order for Torcleaver and Quietus to be competitive they'd have to either boost the mods ridiculously, or make them crit based. That's about it.

Huh?


Edited, Jul 6th 2011 6:13pm by Hexagram

Monk is and always was awesome.

You're a clown. Calm down. Your attitude doesn't impress me in the least.

First off, /MNK isn't a fix specifically for DRK. Yes you can get stuff done with that sub job....guess what, you're going to have to because DRK isn't in demand right now. You aren't doing it because it "works"....you're doing it because nobody wants you on DRK. Let's be real here for a second.

DRK has always been a spike damage job. Period. I dunno if you're a new jack DRK or what, but there was never a period in DRK's existence in FFXI that we were anything other than heavy melee/damage, with a bit of magic thrown in. So I'm not asking them to re-invent the wheel here.

You flat out have no idea what you're talking about to say there isn't a significant difference in DRK's WSs, and Ukko's Fury for example. Period. That's all I can say. I got both WSs, and the difference is night and day everywhere, inside or outside of Abyssea.

Lastly, DRK isn't really good at anything now. Other jobs can nuke better than us, enfeeble better than us, melee better than us, and WS better than us. Which is why DRK is one of the least popular melee classes, and is currently more or less obsolete. If you want to barely scrape by on /MNK because nobody wants you, go for it. I expect more out of DRK.

While this is true nobody is going to invite a DRK solely to hit red/blue/yellow. I've yet to have it happen, and I literally look for any reason to get on my DRK.

People would rather I come on WAR for red/blue, with a NIN. And a couple mages for yellow. That about covers all you need in Abyssea for red/yellow, and for blue you can add a MNK.

what kind of idiot logic is this? /SAM was a formerly laughable sub before hasso, and without it, 2h DDs would never have caught up with MNKs and WARs would still be using ridills (until the level cap raise at least; don't remember how mechanics changed after that). /MNK becomes not-laughable as soon as MAIN/ can use counterstance, surely.

re: bending over backwards, potential is potential. if it's there, you can reach it. if ffxi is too hard for you... i don't even know how to end that sentence, the concept is too outrageous.

Your comparison makes zero sense. /SAM became the norm for melee virtually across the board, in any given scenario, because SE boosted it to do just that. Become the sub job of choice.

/MNK isn't the norm outside of Abyssea. It isn't the norm anywhere else, nor will it ever be unless it receives a make-over similar to /SAM. In addition to this, the sole reason to go DRK/MNK is because you have to....why? Because DRK isn't in demand and you have to low man everything.

As far as your last little comment, I have just about the best gear on DRK and WAR, barring a piece or two. So the game isn't hard, at all, nor is it's difficulty related to anything we're talking about.

You aren't following the rest, Hex. Anything in Abyssea still isn't a fair representation of any job in the game, but those are the comparisons you're hooked on. Ukko and VSmite lose about half their damage by leaving Abyssea, Torc and Quietus lose almost nothing. The crit bubble is going to burst and MNK and WAR will go back to being, while still top-DD by less of a stretch, also the best dirt-eaters in the game.

DRK doesn't 'need' much more than for the game to get out of Abyssea mode. A buff to Quietus would be nice (It is a little sad, after all, that it's only slightly better than our lv60 WS).

There's nothing wrong with getting outdamaged by WAR, MNK, SAM, or even DRG. It's all those jobs can do. DRK gets to stun, laugh at a mob beating itself up, lock an un-melee'd mob from ever using a TP move (AFv3 hands make this even easier now), and rock the fastest natural TP gain in the game.

You wanna play DRK? You don't get to be the top damage dealer. Deal with it.

bend over backwards

like, you might consider bending over backwards to understand the words you use, because it seems to be too great a task for the effort you're putting into it.

re: "talk to me like an adult," i am, you just don't like what you're hearing. i'm insulting you, as an adult. i would do this in real life, believe it or not. i insult people that say dumb sh*t in a superior tone. adults and children alike.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I still don't think Abyssea is going anywhere, for the fore-seeable future. The rewards are too great.

And no DRK doesn't need much. But like I said, traditionally we were spike damage. We've always been spike damage. So it's kinda odd we'd fall so far behind in that category.

And, this is just a small side note, but WAR and MNK can melee/tank, and DRG can cure. DRK has Stun, but so does BLM. We can nuke, so can BLM. We can enfeeble, so can RDM, etc etc etc. It's not about being the #1 DD, it's more about reclaiming our former slot, which was spike damage.

back in the day, if you bent over backwards for a k.club or relic, you were the king of zerg damage.

That's not true. We didn't have half the DoT capabilities we do now, until recently. Relatively recently anyway, in the grand scheme of things. Last Resort buff, Endark, Hasso from /SAM, etc.

Also it wasn't as easy to cap Haste, which was problematic for DoT when you're swinging a 528ish delay weapon. Our bread and butter was our WSs. It always has been.

wah wah wah, you feel stupid for explicitly saying "it shouldn't be harder to be competitive" (which, again, is what 'bend over backwards' is; if you have to bend over backwards to do something, it's because it's hard/complicated/requires a lot of effort).

also, again, yes i am this way in real life (edit; forgot to write this part:D), and if someone even intimated to me that they would react to my correcting their language usage with violence, i would beat the sh*t out of them. however, you are crazy if you think people just suddenly break into violence when someone is verbally disrespectful to them. maybe you watch too much sopranos, or live in a Really Tough Neighborhood.

if you want to keep going, please define the idiom 'bend over backwards' for me. try extra hard to do it. approach the task as if it requires lots of effort, ie as if it were very difficult. give it your best.

---

edit: you posted classic "we didn't have enough haste for DoT with high delay weapon" gem while i was writing my post. ...and you pretend to understand how the game works.'

edit2: i wonder if my point above was clear. internet tough guys like (apparently) this hex character always paint this Rough picture of real life, where if you Say That To My Face you get knocked out, so all the mean people are skinny/overweight nerds who must never act rude (because surely they would get stomped at the first disrespectful peep). people who paint this picture of this world are either abysmally unfortunate and live in terrible, violent circumstances (the kind that would normally preclude MMOs, but who knows)... or (most likely) they're privileged (likely white) kids that have never seen any actual violence.

i say this, because in the adult world, if i made fun of your use of some phrase, and even went so far as to say "are you stupid or something?" you wouldn't punch me. also, if the situation were reversed, and you called me stupid, questioned my knowledge of something, or just flatly ridiculed me, i wouldn't punch you either. however, threatening violence is a whole different story altogether. if you're talking to someone, and they're like, "you keep talking like that and i may have to knock you out or something," this is a big deal if they actually mean it. if you're not going to react to the situation by getting out of it, you should be getting ready to attack this person before they attack you. threatening violence over simple words / "disrespect" is wholly inappropriate, and a big red flag.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 12:04am by milich

You being a Sage speaks volumes on why Alla isn't taken seriously.

You type a lot, without actually saying anything. Instead of pretending to be tough online, or continually asking "what do you mean by bending over backwards?!" even though I explained it several times, why don't you join in the conversation. What do you think DRK needs to be competitive? If you think DRK is competitive, explain why.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:08pm by Hexagram

brain hurts.

of course i do. the people i hang around with are smarter than to deny that words carry their conventional meanings when shown that they are wrong. this would surely yield someone insulting you, and no, you wouldn't @#%^ing punch them over it. have you ever punched someone for "disrespecting you"? just verbally, trivially talking in a way you didn't like, you were like, "@#%^ that, time to @#%^ you up!"? if so, you must realize that you're an asshole/bully/criminal. i have only ever been involved in violence when the threat of violence was the issue to begin with, and believe me, i've insulted a whole lot of people to their faces.

anyway, this is discussing things like an adult. that i'm mean to you, or putting you down, does not mean i'm pouring on emotion or being a child. your responses might have something to do with it (if you actually realized the truth of this last sentence, i promise you that you would be shocked... you're not going to though; in your mind, i'm "not treating you with enough respect" or overreacting, blablabla).

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 12:26am by milich

this is why we can't have nice things.

if i can't contribute to the community with game knowledge anymore, at least i can make fun of people.

edit: look at this fucking avatar. and no, i haven't played everquest.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 2:01am by milich

Milich and Hex's exchange: 10/10, would read again.

I'm fully aware of how Apoc's haste works. The benefit of the haste comes in the tradeoff. Needing 10% less haste to cap means I can stack more ACC/ATK/STR/DA/TA type gear. The +35ACC on the weapon itself is also nice if you do new stuff, that actually requires ACC. You could make an argument against Cata's sh*tty WSC mods, but new gear has really started to kill that that one. Notable Catastrophe upgrade pieces released since Abyssea, like Twilight Helm, Twilight Mail, Bale Sollerets +2, and Soil belt, have really gone a long way in putting Cata gear in better shape.


Saying the WS Damage sucks must be some kinda joke seeing as the 90 Apoc's Catastrophe is stronger than any other Scythe WS at 100TP. With some magical hastes, Apoc also makes you nigh invulnerable unless the mob has retarded defense or has an OHsh*t TP move.



Apocalypse (90) has the more powerful WS, the better dps, alters gear options, and has the unique ability to cure you for upwards of 500-2,000+ hp. It just loses handily in DoT to Redemption in most situations due to the odd aftermath.



Empyreans are not the standard. The current standard is almost half naked losers failing miserably, leeching off of the 2-4 people actually putting effort in. Now if you want to say it's more common to encounter empyreans in an organized event group or shell, then yes.



Fudo is better in almost all situations, not because the WS itself is that much better, but because Overwhelm is @#%^ing boss.

That said, Torcleaver, properly built, rapes Fudo if you're going for BNS pleasing WSes. It has a significantly larger fTP, better base damage on weapon, and DRK's Vit gear has gotten a lot better over the last year.



The fact it's not going anywhere is the point. It's over. The ease of abyssea will only kill it faster. I came back from a long break, starting just after visions, and got leveled all my jobs 75/80-90, got all the important atmas, all wins, shin kill, had 5/5 AF3+2 for all my jobs, leveled a new job from 37, got its 5/5 AF3+2, and completed an empyrean in just a month. There's nothing really left for me personally in abyssea, and I'm sure there will be a lot more like me, especially since Abyssea will only get EVEN EASIER as the level caps rise, new gear comes out, and adjustments to jobs and the areas themselves are implemented (Gold Boxing sh*tty NM KIs is a perfect example).

There's going to be 9 new levels of gear, at least one new event (well continuation of a new event), and revamps of CoP Dynamis, Salvage, and Limbus at very least. SE has already added ways to make old gear almost as good as or, in some cases, better than AF3+2. Not only that, but those Empyreans you hold in such high regard, will more than likely need to be upgraded in some event outside of abyssea now for 95-99 upgrades, possibly only for the 99 upgrade as they could make Shin kills count as one upgrade.

Using EXP as a reason people won't move on from abyssea is just plain stupid. It's like those old players counting exp/merit parties as end game. It will be popular for that yes, but it won't be THE Endgame that it currently is, by combination of the things I've said.


Abyssea can only go downhill from here.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 4:03pm by Return1