Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Merits? Where to spendFollow

#1 Jun 05 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
36 posts
This is what I'm thinking for dark merits, would like some input on what others think or have done.

Group 1
5/5 last resort effect
5/5 last resort recast

Group 2
5/5 desperate blows
then I'm not sure here on the last one. I was leaning towards muted soul or maybe dividing up for muted and diabolic eye.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
#2 Jun 05 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
5,684 posts
4/5 Diabolic Eye
1/5 Dark Seal

I use Dark Seal just enough to justify one merit in the ability. I find muted soul useless. The trait doesn't effect the initial hate spike and I typically have dread spikes up when I use souleater, so taking hate is something I want to do.
____________________________
Signature starts here.
#3 Jun 05 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
I only ever use Diabolic Eye when I'm swinging some gimp sh*t like Club for Red proc. 1/5 is probably as much as you'll ever need it, because 4/5 still isn't often enough to matter or preclude using an up/down set.

1/5 Dark Seal is handy for the same reason.

Muted Soul gets a huge debatefest. I 3/5'd it for lack of want of the other options. Stalwart Soul makes Souleater far more worthwhile and effective, and dropping a fat Souleater but capping hate that much more slowly can be nice for damage output if you've been sitting around waiting for yellow proc while the tank capped hate.

As for Group 1's, it depends what endgame weapon you're using. Keep your 5/5 Last Resort Effect merits if you plan on using Caladbolg/NQ. I'd recommend 5/5 Souleater recast over LR Effect (keep LR recast, natch) if you're going to use Scythe, again because of Stalwart Soul and Guillotine still being our staple multihit.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 6:33pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#4 Jun 06 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
36 posts
Thank you both for the reply's the info helps. I am not sure what I plan to use as a main weapon. As far as end game weapons go I have a twilight waiting for me and will work on getting a woe as well. For great sword I have the 386 delay great sword and going to try and pick up a jingang greatsword. At this time I don't have any plans to work on any of the trial options since I am currently working on emp katana, evasion katana, and a -pdt sword.

This could change if I can manage to bring out dark more for events, but that is probably not going to happen since I'm normally blue or nin for events.
#5 Jun 08 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
*
100 posts
5/5 LR recast
5/5 SE recast

5/5 DB
5/5 DE you'll want the acc on new content.

I have an Apoc and currently have 5/5 DS but on some of the upper tier VWNMs im not capping acc so Im changing to DE as well.
____________________________
ArmadaLS Cerberus
Apoc,Yoichi
Masa,Cala,Vere,Kannagi
#6 Jun 09 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
**
556 posts
What gear are you tping in with your Apoc?

Merit-wise I have:

Group 1
5/5 LR Recast
5/5 SE Recast
Group 2
5/5 DB
5/5 DE

I have Apoc, but I was convinced coming content would require more ACC, so I kept my DE merits.
#7 Jun 21 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,890 posts
I went

5/5 LR Recast duh
5/5 LR Effect (turns it into Berserk basically)

5/5 DB duh
5/5 Dark Seal (nothing else better)

I used to be 5/5 DE but then abyssea has made acc not worth a ****, plus the -HP effect is annoying when your riding SE. I might change it back to 5/5 DE if acc becomes an issue in the newer content.

As for the reason behind 5/5 LR effect, turns out monsters over level 80 have annoyingly high defense. Inside abyssea we have super atma's and cruor buffs to offset this, outside we're not so lucky. You really want 800 or more attack to get near ratio cap and with LR now 3min effect it makes sense to max it out. Also outside abyssea riding SE isn't nearly as useful, your HP is lower and the mages don't have as much MP to keep you topped off. I dualbox a WHM and even then its **** difficult to get the most out of SE.

But that's my personal choice, YMMV.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#8 Jun 21 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
As much as I would promote planning ahead for the great return of DRK in post-Abyssea, merits are so easy to get now I think most of us could stay optimized for Abyssea for now. DE and LR effect can and will be useful, but it's not hard to switch when the time comes.

Did I already cover LR effect for Torc and SE recast for Quietus/Guillo in this thread? I'm on my phone...
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#9 Jun 30 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
*
100 posts
I changed my merits up recently.

5/5 lr recast
5/5 desperate blows
Ofcourse

5/5 SE recast since the update SE is very spammable and really helps on the harder mobs. I have Apoc which makes SE even more potent. DRK is also an easy job to cap attack.

5/5 diabolic eye. With the new update even with perfect gear like I have the acc boost is still needed on upper tier mobs. I used to think DE was useless (was at 75) but now its a huge asset. Just like muted soul used to be a solid trait back in the zerg days but now its 100% useless.
____________________________
ArmadaLS Cerberus
Apoc,Yoichi
Masa,Cala,Vere,Kannagi
#10 Jun 30 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
TaintCerberus wrote:
5/5 diabolic eye. With the new update even with perfect gear like I have the acc boost is still needed on upper tier mobs. I used to think DE was useless (was at 75) but now its a huge asset. Just like muted soul used to be a solid trait back in the zerg days but now its 100% useless.

Yeah I'm due for a shuffling if just to burn merits I can't spend otherwise. You're following what I mentioned earlier about Souleater recast having more value for Scythe while Torc wants/needs LR effect so badly.

I got the impression last time I used it that Diabolic eye only reduces your HP based on your normal amount anyway, so using it in Abyssea isn't as crazy detrimental (-450hp? nothx, but -220 is okay).

I still ask in what situation you're gonna need Diabolic Eye back as soon as possible, implying an application (fight, or series of fights still requiring that Acc) longer than three minutes, but I haven't even tried Voidwatch yet.

I think the issue is more to do with recent gearing options and styles. We're running 20-40 less accuracy on our main gear than we used to be, especially with your 'perfect' gear (Hoard ring, Ace's Leggings, Ace's Hose if you dare, Calmecac Trousers, no acc on Bale or Askar bodies). Offsetting that only 3/5ths of the time isn't solving the problem. SE caught on that -Acc on the best Haste/Multihit/StoreTP gear was a good way to make us start needing to adapt to different fights, so unless you're planning DE up/down sets you've still got a problem for two minutes at a time.

I'm not saying it's less beneficial than Muted Soul, but with the slow harkening back to tanked fights even Muted Soul is back to looking juicy again to me (I pondered dropping it for tanking). Just having Diabolic Eye, one point, gives you 90% of it's usefulness for one-shot usage.

You may also want to consider going back to Pizza. It gives more than twice as much accuracy as Diabolic Eye with a still hefty Attack portion (which new gearing has far more of).

We DRKs have simply forgotten that Accuracy was important once, but Diabolic Eye was never the first step.

Edited, Jun 30th 2011 4:39pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#11 Jun 30 2011 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent
*
100 posts
The issue is why use pizza when I can use RCB and merit DE. I don't DRK in Abyssea where DE would never be needed, but its really nice in Dynamis and VW where DRK does pretty well.

The biggest issue is muted soul doesn't add anything. The other option is Dark seal which has limited use but being capped or closer to capped ACC 3 out of 5min.

My 5hit tp set for harder mobs is

Apoc/rose//whitetath
Bale/bale/bale/brutal
armadaberk(stp5da2)/bale/raja/hoard
tactical/goading/jingang/aces

Pretty acc friendly and im not capped on acc.
____________________________
ArmadaLS Cerberus
Apoc,Yoichi
Masa,Cala,Vere,Kannagi
#12 Jun 30 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
TaintCerberus wrote:
The issue is why use pizza when I can use RCB and merit DE.

Because Pizza gives twice as much accuracy as DE, full time, and at least some portion of RCB's attack boost.

If accuracy is ever a problem, you'll be wanting a lot of it. A lot more than just +20 with no percentage based food interaction. If your accuracy is down around 80% or lower (about as low as it has to be to be eyeballable) your accuracy will still be **** with DE up.

Meanwhile you're riding Last Resort. Something has to have a lot of defense to need RCB, and those things don't tend to be too evasive unless SE decided to be a **** that dev day.

As always: Hitting is more important than hitting hard.
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#13 Jul 01 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
*
100 posts
Get out of Abyssea for a minute, do a t4 VW their def is very very high. Its much better to swap gear around then to go from RcB to pizza. With Apoc +35acc Im parsing between 86 and 92 acc on t4s, capping with DE. 95% of DRKs will probably need pizza and DE to cap. Its also useful further into the new dynamis zones.

Again muted soul is useless, dark seal is situational and DE can be used just about everywhere. Even if you DRK in abyssea you can use it for procing. Would WAR give up agressor?
____________________________
ArmadaLS Cerberus
Apoc,Yoichi
Masa,Cala,Vere,Kannagi
#14 Jul 01 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
TaintCerberus wrote:
Even if you DRK in abyssea you can use it for procing.

I do actually.

Right now I don't put too much hard decisionmaking into merits because I'm expecting sh*t to start changing again, like you've noted about VW. As it is my merit selection is based more on 'I get most of the utility out of these things with one point (DE/DS), and this thing does what it does fairly well with just partial merits (3/5 MS).

I do like looking ahead at Voidwatch if I ever do it and knowing my accuracy requirement.
TaintCerberus wrote:

Apoc/rose//whitetath
Bale/bale/bale/brutal
armadaberk(stp5da2)/bale/raja/hoard
tactical/goading/jingang/aces

+65 Acc on gear (Apoc is half of this)
+18 DEX
+7 Scythe Skill (384 with full merits, 389 if you had Abyssal, which is probably the first thing for you to swap)

Gonna use my own base DEX.
200+(0.9*184)+0.75(89+18)+65
165.6
80.25

445.85 before gear. 450.35 with Abyssal.
With your miss values we need 6-18 more accuracy, so 451-463 acc desired (so these things are still less evasive than a Mamool THF)

Apoc RCB and DE: 465-470 acc.
Apoc Marinara Pizza: 490-495 acc.

So I suppose it works for you, however:

Non-Apoc: 410-415 before food.

Nonapoc RCB and DE: 430-435, still sh*t as I said (~70%-75% hitrate)
Nonapoc Marinara Pizza: 451-456, right on the money.

Pizza, *****!

Edited, Jul 1st 2011 2:10pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#15 Jul 02 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
*
100 posts
Our disagreement starts with how useless. -50 (-30) emn is worth for a DD in any situation let alone for only 1min.

DRK isn't a bad job to pull hate on and sometimes a good one. Before Abyssea it was a premier tank.

Old school KC,RC zerg DRK muted soul was very worthwhile but the game has changed drastically.

____________________________
ArmadaLS Cerberus
Apoc,Yoichi
Masa,Cala,Vere,Kannagi
#16 Jul 02 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
**
556 posts
Muted Soul is pretty ***.

DE gives you a sizeable ACC bonus for 3 minutes every 5 minutes, which is nice when fighting things where Accuracy matters. It also allows for more ATK/WSC/fSTR stacking for WSes outside of abyssea.

Abyssea is over. VW has come and next update will get better rewards. Dynamis has been revamped with high level mobs. Limbus and Salvage will eventually see similar tweaks. There's 9 more levels of delicious NOTABYSSEA to play through. This means people will need to relearn how to dress themselves sooner or later. Just because, currently, other people are reluctant to do new events doesn't mean there aren't reasons for us to gear for them.
#17 Jul 02 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,507 posts
abyssea's hardly over, some of us are still spitting out empyreans and gearing our 4th or 5th jobs! **** i have to gear blu now that i've finished almace.../RAGE...have half of the +1's done already at least.
____________________________
Having tenticle addiction issues?
HentaiAddictsAnonymous can help!
shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#18 Jul 02 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
TaintCerberus wrote:
Old school KC,RC zerg DRK muted soul was very worthwhile but the game has changed drastically.

I swing my OA2-4 when I'm planning to drop a serious Souleater. Usually I drop High Jump first to bump myself way down from capped hate. Muted Soul does what it does in that case.

Other DRKs don't get that free heal from Catastrophe, indeed an Apoc DRK was a premier tank. A DRK/SAM who knew how to use it was also decent tank. Most others thought 'DRK? Tank? I guess I'm /NIN' and never take hate.

Plenty of reasons you wouldn't pay heed to. Muted Soul is less useless to me than a shorter Diabolic Eye timer I never ride. If ever I think 'sh*t, I could really use Diabolic Eye but it wore off 90 seconds ago' I might consider meriting it down, but at best I'm gonna get a 7:30 recast because Dark Seal is for my opening Drain IIs (and is another timer I would never ride if I capped merits). If a fight goes eight minutes and I'm working into my second Diabolic Eye, something else is wrong.

But these are just my personal playstyle reasons. I already detailed how Diabolic Eye is the last solution DRK should look to for accuracy issues.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 2:09pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#19 Jul 02 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
***
3,507 posts
i'd rather get my enmity loss from pulling aggro and getting punched in the face with dreadspikes up, but i guess it's down to playstyle. if muted soul were a flat -enm all the time it'd be a different story.
____________________________
Having tenticle addiction issues?
HentaiAddictsAnonymous can help!
shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#20 Jul 02 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
gigasnail wrote:
abyssea's hardly over, some of us are still spitting out empyreans and gearing our 4th or 5th jobs! **** i have to gear blu now that i've finished almace.../RAGE...have half of the +1's done already at least.

I'm still cranking on +2s for DRK and finally got my NQ feet for COR and immediately +1'd.

I like how bored with Abyssea the Apoc DRKs in here seem. I guess when you get everything handed to you it could be a little dull.

Return1 wrote:
This means people will need to relearn how to dress themselves sooner or later. Just because, currently, other people are reluctant to do new events doesn't mean there aren't reasons for us to gear for them.

Then I guess they start learning today!

Pizza vs. RCB in more direct terms:

20% hitrate vs 100 attack

100 attack = ~13% more damage

20% hitrate = 26% more weaponskills (ed. and if swinging Guillo, ~20.1% more damage per WS, for about 51% more WS damage, and still even a little extra with other WS because you still have to land DA/TA procs from Atheling, Calmecac, Brutal...) and 26% more melee damage. All told about 41% more damage after TP:WS split if you're still rocking Guillotine.

[/DE+RCB discussion]

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 2:46pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#21 Jul 02 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
Double because the new layout moved everything around.


I think the short version, Finuve, is "You have an Apoc, you do not speak for all of us. Do whatever you like, but don't ever insinuate that non-Apoc DRKs are doing it wrong or I will find you."

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 2:26pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#22 Jul 02 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
**
556 posts
Quote:
Then I guess they start learning today!

Pizza vs. RCB in more direct terms:

20% hitrate vs 100 attack

100 attack = ~13% more damage

20% hitrate = 26% more weaponskills (ed. and if swinging Guillo, ~20.1% more damage per WS, for about 51% more WS damage, and still even a little extra with other WS because you still have to land DA/TA procs from Atheling, Calmecac, Brutal...) and 26% more melee damage. All told about 41% more damage after TP:WS split if you're still rocking Guillotine.

[/DE+RCB discussion]


Essentially, you're pulling numbers from your ***.

You're assuming you get a full 20% bonus from pizza.

You're assuming the attack is only a ~13% boost to ratio. It's a fine estimate, but when dealing with things like this, more concrete numbers are better.

You're fallaciously attributing a ~13% boost to ratio as a ~13% boost to damage, which is true on anything EM (90) or lower, but when you bring level corrections for say a mob 10 levels over you, that number is too low.

You're assuming you're gaining the whole 40 ACC on WSes, because I guess you don't macro gear?

You're failing to consider ACC and pDIF bonuses on WSes.




It's not just boredom with abyssea. It's literally nothing else to do there. 5/5 AF3 on all my jobs, got accessories, nifty pieces of gear, and getting the empy weapons I want.

When I say Abyssea is done, I mean that it's over. There will be no new abyssea content. All new gear and stories and camps and battles that come out from now on will be outside of abyssea. It's done.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 6:16pm by Return1
#23 Jul 02 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
Return1 wrote:
You're assuming you get a full 20% bonus from pizza.

Do try to pay attention so you don't look like an inconsequential nag next time.
Raelix wrote:
+65 Acc on gear (Apoc is half of this)
+18 DEX
+7 Scythe Skill (384 with full merits, 389 if you had Abyssal, which is probably the first thing for you to swap)

Gonna use my own base DEX.
200+(0.9*184)+0.75(89+18)+65
165.6
80.25

445.85 before gear. 450.35 with Abyssal.
With your miss values we need 6-18 more accuracy, so 451-463 acc desired (so these things are still less evasive than a Mamool THF)

Apoc RCB and DE: 465-470 acc.
Apoc Marinara Pizza: 490-495 acc.

So I suppose it works for you, however:

Non-Apoc: 410-415 before food.

Nonapoc RCB and DE: 430-435, still sh*t as I said (~70%-75% hitrate)
Nonapoc Marinara Pizza: 451-456, right on the money.

Pizza, *****!



Return1 wrote:
You're assuming the attack is only a ~13% boost to ratio.

You're fallaciously attributing a ~13% boost to ratio as a ~13% boost to damage, which is true on anything EM (90) or lower, but when you bring level corrections for say a mob 10 levels over you, that number is too low.

Oh dear! I actually f*cked that up, hold on:

Let's go with 400 defense, 800 attack to simplify the math. On EM or lower, 100 attack is a 12.5% increase. Now let's throw 9 levels of correction at it, so 1.8 / 1.55 = 16.1% more damage. Edit: Oops, hit cap, so it's actually only 12.9%. How about 600 defense? 1.05 / 0.883 = 18% increase on a very extreme mob. Still nowhere even near the same greater metropolitan area as the benefit of accuracy from pizza.

Return1 wrote:
You're assuming you're gaining the whole 40 ACC on WSes, because I guess you don't macro gear?

As already postulated, non-Apoc DRKs need every bit of Acc they can get, especially if swinging a low hitbuild and needing certain pieces in for WS. Apoc/Quietus/Torcleaver DRKs aren't known for having incredible amounts of accuracy on their WS sets so my further annotation about DA/TA procs is even more valid.

Return1 wrote:
You're failing to consider ACC and pDIF bonuses on WSes.

No I didn't. That's why the damage increase from improved accuracy on Guillotine was only 20.1% instead of 26% and I gave a point about accuracy on WS helping secondary DA and TA procs land. Torcleaver has no Ratio bonus and you personally disavow Quietus' Ratio bonus at every opportunity so what does that matter?

Congratulations! You've succeeded in being entirely confrontational and contradictory without making a single valid point whatsoever or even making the bare minimum attempt to back your claims. If you'd even considered the latter you wouldn't have spouted such garbage.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 3:57pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#24 Jul 02 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
556 posts
Quote:
Oh dear! I actually f*cked that up, hold on:

Let's go with 400 defense, 800 attack to simplify the math. On EM or lower, 100 attack is a 12.5% increase. Now let's throw 9 levels of correction at it, so 1.8 / 1.55 = 16.1% more damage. Edit: Oops, hit cap, so it's actually only 12.9%. How about 600 defense? 1.05 / 0.883 = 18% increase on a very extreme mob. Still nowhere even near the same greater metropolitan area as the benefit of accuracy from pizza.


Well, seeing as all the older God/HNM class mobs were about 13-20 levels over us, 9 levels is a lowbie guess. We already know VWNMs can be High evasion and defense. They're probably in the 13-20 levels above us range as well, we're just unable to confirm it since we can /check or use the exp calculations of old.

If we went with 400 defense, and a mob 13 levels above us for this example, the difference between the 800rcb and the 700pizza would be ~22.7%. I'm pretty sure higher level VW mobs would have higher defense than 400 as well.

Quote:
As already postulated, non-Apoc DRKs need every bit of Acc they can get, especially if swinging a low hitbuild and needing certain pieces in for WS. Apoc/Quietus/Torcleaver DRKs aren't known for having incredible amounts of accuracy on their WS sets so my further annotation about DA/TA procs is even more valid.



You can easily get +100acc in gear for multihit WSes without Apocalypse. Also, we're using the arguement for validation od DE 5/5, well you can figure in ACC from DE as an average hit% boost over a period of time.

For any single hit WSes, the ACC does absolutely nothing, barring extra swings. Even then, the benefit of then cRatio boost from the heavier ATK on the First hit and any extra swings that land, will do more than making occasional extra swings land more often.

#25 Jul 02 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,260 posts
Sure, pick at as many little things you can and tweak the numbers to make your idea look less retarded. DE+RCB still fails to give a larger benefit than Pizza alone even on a level 104 mob. Jormungand is level 95. Level 99 was a decent guess for the current top end NMs except that players will be getting there eventually. Stretch that out as far as you like, maybe SE will make level 140 NMs and you'll be right!

But here's the funny part: you ****** the math in your favor because no self-respecting DRK is gonna have just 650 attack with Last Resort up and no food. Against a mob with 400 defense any decent DRK is gonna slam into Ratio cap even with just Pizza. If you argue 'Last Resort goes down for one minute out of four!' I'm gonna kick you in the face and point at Diabolic Eye being down even more often than that.

At any rate a 20% accuracy increase is 26% more damage across the board, not just TP phase, because you land 26% more melee hits for 26% more WSing per bunch of swings, so it's 26% even if your f*cking WS accuracy is capped. Just wanted to make that clear to you. Additional damage per WS because of increased WS accuracy is just gravy, but still you **** up this idea that everyone WSes in an accuracy set which says nothing to the benefit of Torcleaver (You've heard of this thing right? It's kinda popular...) and Quietus. 26% more damage from 20% accuracy increase is a minimum, and the lower your starting accuracy on potentially stronger mobs, the more the benefit balloons even faster than Attack.

But your own argument about swapping for WS turns against you, because no DRK less retarded than yourself is gonna be WSing in the same amount of Attack as their TP set, particularly Torc and Quietus DRKs, so they easily slam into Ratio cap with RCB and lose much of the benefit for 60% of their damage, especially with Torc DRKs and many others rocking LR Effect merits.

Yours is the way of the E-Peen, the BNS *****. That's all RCB is for: E-Peen (Like it's predecessor and main ingredient, 'look how much money I can blow on food!') amd BNS'ing. It's fun to use on trash mobs, but mob Evasion is growing just as rapidly as their Attack.`

Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 9:09pm by Raelix
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#26 Jul 02 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Default
**
556 posts
Quote:
Sure, pick at as many little things you can and tweak the numbers to make your idea look less retarded. DE+RCB still fails to give a larger benefit Pizza alone even on a level 104 mob. Jormungand is level 95. Level 99 was a decent guess for the current top end NMs except that players will be getting there eventually. Stretch that out as far as you like, maybe SE will make level 140 NMs and you'll be right!


We're currently in a transition phase, so no **** the mobs designed for now will be easier later on when we hit 99. Right now there are mobs that fit the bill of having over 400 defense and having a sizeable level correction. Also, when we're getting new content and HNMs for the 99 cap, I can assure you we'll get lovely level 112-120 mobs to fight.

Jorm was a 95 HNM designed for the 75 cap. You're ******* stupid if you don't think they'll make higher level NMs for 99 cap. You're ******* stupid for bringing Jorm into the discussion to make your point.

Quote:
But here's the funny part: you ****** the math in your favor because no self-respecting DRK is gonna have just 650 attack with Last Resort up and no food. Against a mob with 400 defense any decent DRK is gonna slam into Ratio cap even with just Pizza. If you argue 'Last Resort goes down for one minute out of four!' I'm gonna kick you in the face and point at Diabolic Eye being down even more often than that.


I ****** my math? You're the ****** that pulled the numbers from his ***. I just used them to show you're wrong.

It doesn't matter anyway though because all you do is napkin math omitting other facts you dislike to make your point. If I wanted I could napkin math WHM into the game's strongest DD.

Quote:
At any rate a 20% accuracy increase is 26% more damage across the board, not just TP phase, because you land 26% more melee hits for 26% more WSing per bunch of swings, so it's 26% even if your f*cking WS accuracy is capped. Just wanted to make that clear to you. Additional damage per WS because of increased WS accuracy is just gravy, but still you **** up this idea that everyone WSes in an accuracy set which says nothing to the benefit of Torcleaver (You've heard of this thing right? It's kinda popular...) and Quietus. 26% more damage from 20% accuracy increase is a minimum, and the lower your starting accuracy on potentially stronger mobs, the more the benefit balloons even faster than Attack.


WRONG AGAIN!

20% more accuracy isn't 26% more damage, it's 26% more hits/WSes. Each hit or WS would be weaker, making the value less than you've stated.

Not only that, but you've been doing this whole argument to depreciate the value of DE, but you haven't even figured it into that 20% you ******* tool.


Also, I love how you're trying to make the argument move towards fighting streams of **** weak mobs, whereas I'm aiming my use of DE towards higher NM mobs you would find in VW battlefields, especially since VW is being expanded with EVEN STRONGER mobs. You think VW mobs are going to have the same DEF and level as ***** *** abyssea mobs? No. Of course you wouldn't know, as you couldn't tell your head from your *** when it comes to VW.
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (1)