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So... Aspir IIFollow

#1 Jul 01 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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275 posts
Uh, could anyone who has it gimme a rundown? Because it seems super-bad, I read on the wiki someone put up an 8-second cast time? Is that true? Because that would need some real hardcore awesomeness to be justified. That's in the realm of higher-end tier 4 nukes...

So, it's crap, right? (Please let me be wrong somehow?)
#2 Jul 01 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
It is slower then aspir dont think its 8secs slow though
on the +side it costs 5mp less to cast and aspirs for alot more.
#3 Jul 01 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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275 posts
Uh, how much of a lot more? Does that really matter? If the mobs had mp, I already could keep my mp up all I wanted with regular aspir...
#4 Jul 01 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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724 posts
It depends on how you use your drk tho. You can say all you want about able to keep up with MP, but in what situation?

I doubt you are able to keep up with MP when you do campaign in northland eating AoE nonstop and having to cure III yourself every couple secs (I go Drk/whm now a day with self haste and RR and the ability to raise ppl). So whenever I go campaign and if I have hate, I am blood tanking and have to use drain drain II aspir aspir II dread spikes and cure III to stay alive (ethereal earring as well), which is a good thing anyway for exp.

So it really depends. Aspir II is obviously not going to be useful for you if you are in melee burn etc and need very minimal MP. It is just something you can use when you need it. I see no problem with it what so ever as a nice addition. And yes, it does get you more MP and the casting time really isn't that long if you have fastcast gears on, and I don't think 8 sec is accurate anyway, it is just slightly longer.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 4:09pm by pochenlai
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#5Raelix, Posted: Jul 01 2010 at 9:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) fix'd.
#6 Jul 02 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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275 posts
Eh, I'm just bugged because we still don't have a good native ability to keep mp going against mobs that don't have any, when SE had kinda gotten my hopes up with some comment somewhere. I mean, ****, I woulda been happy with an auto-refresh trait... In general, it seems like SE wants us to cast more in general situations, but it seems like they aren't willing to go far enough (Take Occult Acumen for example, it doesn't come near giving the tp of a regular swing, which we have unlimited of, for the cost of more time than a swing takes to get marginally more damage if you're lucky, for mp, which we have precious little of as it is) to accomplish that.
#7 Jul 03 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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2,038 posts
Quote:
Fakequote wrote:
Uh, how much of a lot more? Does that really matter? If the mobs had mp, I already could keep my mp up all I wanted with regular aspir...Plastron/Ares, Parade Gorget, Sanction/Sigil Refresh, FoV Refresh...


fix'd.

I will even go as far to concede that in some situations, a small mp pool from being Elvaan or Galka doesn't matter with how much refresh runs rampant anymore.


Yes, because gimping your melee capability by switching out PCC/Ancient torque/j.torque and Berk +1/Adaberk/Nocturnus mail for a 2MP/tic refresh is so much better than taking a few seconds casting Aspir. And I'm sure pimping Plastron when running an AoE-heavy campaign battle will surely save you some MP when you have to heal yourself.

Seriously, do you even think before you post, anymore?
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#8Raelix, Posted: Jul 03 2010 at 12:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Because we're always engaged and always standing in AoE spam, rite?
#9 Jul 03 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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cue facepalm.gif
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#10 Jul 03 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
gigasnail wrote:
cue facepalm.gif
FacePalm.GIF
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
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#11 Jul 03 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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3,507 posts
thanks, i needed that.
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#12 Jul 03 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
gigasnail wrote:
thanks, i needed that.
I aim to please Smiley: grin
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Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#13 Jul 04 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,038 posts
Raelix wrote:
Because we're always engaged and always standing in AoE spam, rite?

Because every mob is Aspirable. Because every Aspir is for 80+. Because refresh magically stops working at random intervals in feng's FFXI.

Did you switch to 360 or something? What kind of ****** can't handle a few idle pieces or a couple AN or IS for even 1/tic.

This beautiful message of is brought to you by the same geniuses that gave you 'NO DARK MAGIC IS WORTH CASTING, IT GIMPS YOUR MELEE DAMAGE'.

If not coherent and decent, at least be consistent, please.


You know, assuming the quote you mangled specifically mentioned using Aspir on mobs--suggesting he was talking about mobs on which Aspir does, in fact, work--and assuming I listed items that would only serve a purpose when you're actually fighting something, I assumed you would make the necessary cognitive leap to realize I obviously wasn't talking about idle gear. (And no, idle gear bringing you to 2-3 MP/tic refresh is not enough unless the event you're running allows you to sit around with your thumb up your *** for long periods of time in between fights. You won't always have a RDM to refresh. If you request a BRD or COR to give you refresh rolls over melee rolls, you should leave this board immediately and leave your DRK card at the door.)

This beautiful message of, "REFRESH IS NOT ENOUGH MP, YOU HAVE TO USE ASPIR," is brought to you by someone who's always known that casting dark magic gimps overall damage, but has always casted it anyway because it made things easier on the support jobs. Not everyone who disagrees with one of your spastic, infantile opinions is out to get you for every last one of them, you know. There is no Anti-Raelix Cabal(tm), unless you consider having a fully functional cerebral cortex as anathema to your very existence.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm done overestimating your intelligence--which I previously pegged as high enough that you could make even menial logical leaps--so I'll just sit back and laugh while you continue frothing at the mouth and insisting you're some sort of DRK scholar despite having precious little idea how to even f*cking play the job.
____________________________
DRK wrote:
No, it's too late. Already, great cataracts of blood pour forth in mighty rivulets of gore from the vicious, millimeter-deep wounds I have dealt to my forearm with my Vorpal Safety Pin of Weeping.
#14 Jul 04 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
FireFeng wrote:
There is no Anti-Raelix Cabal(tm)
You can't trademark that! I already own the IP! What would I be doing with all of these t-shirts otherwise?
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#15 Jul 04 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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2,038 posts
Put one up on Threadless for <$10, and I'm there.

It will match the club's hat, that I've already purchased to support our wholly benevolent, terribly non-secretive endeavors.
____________________________
DRK wrote:
No, it's too late. Already, great cataracts of blood pour forth in mighty rivulets of gore from the vicious, millimeter-deep wounds I have dealt to my forearm with my Vorpal Safety Pin of Weeping.
#16Raelix, Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 5:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Its a stylistic difference with some severe mixing of situations on feng's part.
#17 Jul 04 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,964 posts
Raelix wrote:
is against mobs that with proper buffs a DRK should be capping attack anyway.


Maybe it's because I've never bothered to look at the math in this game, but wut? Are you getting double minuets? And chaos roll? I've always noticed an increase in damage from more attack on merit level mobs when I actually do get those buffs with marches so why wouldn't attack from a better (more attack if you're capping ACC because you have good gear) food help you as well?
#18 Jul 04 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
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3,507 posts
chaos roll + dia 2 is going to cap you on most merit mobs....
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#19Raelix, Posted: Jul 04 2010 at 7:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Its also a fairly recent epiphany that attack actually caps much lower than expected post-two-hander-update, on the order of ~50 attack lower on merit mobs actually, and obscenely lower on high-level-corrected mobs (because you can't actually overcome it anymore).
#20 Jul 04 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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6,964 posts
Cool beans Smiley: thumbsup
#21 Jul 05 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
He knows masa did extensive testing recently and found the caps were higher and entire pDIF equation changed, ya?

and I still haven't seen anything supporting a 2.2 ratio cap for melee (any non-relax DRK want to help me out w/ high atk parses?).

If you're getting dia III you're looking at ~740atk for cap w/o melee ratio cap and ~630 w/ cap.

w/ dia II - 789 / 670
w/o dia - 875 / 742


and that's on squishy stuff, higher level mobs (like most of the ones we're leveling on now) take more.



Shinta: enemy of presenting inconclusive evidence as fact

Edited, Jul 5th 2010 1:23pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#22Raelix, Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 1:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Shinta apparently has the memory of a goldfish after agreeing with the 2.2 pre-LC cap just six months ago.
#23 Jul 05 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
Relax wrote:
Shinta apparently has the memory of a goldfish after agreeing with the 2.2 pre-LC cap just six months ago.
Amazingly that thread is still there, and I'd love for you to show me where I agreed with you. 'cus when I look at it I see that I showed situations that shouldn't be able to exist with that ->WS<- cap, which you tried to explain away saying the test wasn't controlled enough (which is true), but in the end we needed more/better testing for anything definitive rather then just jumping to conclusions. Particularly if you want it to apply to melee as well.
Relax wrote:
I see nothing new on Bluegartr, perhaps you could provide a link to this grand insight of his Shinta?

It's in the same thread as everything thing else (2010/6/19).

data shortcut:
http://ffxidmgformula.googlecode.com/files/Distributions%20study%20v1.1.xls

Quote:
I'm asking you to test it yourself, not to be vindicated or proven right, but simply to validate it for your own pretentious means.
pass, and I don't trust anything you'd show not to be fabricated.

Really someone should have done what I suggested three years ago (when I was doing WS acc testing and yarko first presented his pdif data) and run tests (melee and WS) on lv76 (T only) Steelshells at various ATKs/STRs instead of all the various crap tests we've gotten, but at this point in the game I just don't care anymore.



also: people like you are why I lol@lolwiki
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#24Raelix, Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 4:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Burden of Proof is all yours. I can't possibly prove every situation, but you're more than welcome to find numbers that prove my model wrong beyond all possible error (another 'error' Masa harps on was actually him gaining an fSTR).
#25 Jul 05 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
Relax wrote:
Burden of Proof is all yours.
You're the one running around changing the wiki and claiming pDIF works X way when there is evidence to show that it doesn't or at least that isn't the whole story, how is burden of proof mine? I just don't think you should mislead people based on non-fact and poor tests. I told Yarko the same thing three years ago and his testing turned out just as wrong as I told him it was in the exact way I told him he should be careful to test.

ie:
Relax wrote:
Best guess

is not what you should present to other people as "hard truth". At the very least note there are still unknowns/uncertainties.

Relax wrote:
Shinta, shut your ***** mouth. Gonna go report this to people that matter.
lolwut? I disagree with you on something I've always disagreed with you on, and I'm being respectful about it. Don't make idle threats.
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#26Raelix, Posted: Jul 05 2010 at 5:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I can't seem to beat it into you that I'm subject to confirmation bias. Field something that breaks the model unequivocally and maybe I'll cut back on my support of it, but right now I gotta sell it as hard as possible to get people trying to prove it wrong, and as long as that doesn't happen I consider myself to be in the right in pressing it towards being fact.
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