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Chaos Burgeonet vs CelataFollow

#1 Apr 29 2009 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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I have a debate I can't settle on my own.

Chaos Burgeonet or Celata.

I'm keeping Chaos of course for dark magic. The Celata has acc and att. However.... I need that 4str from Chaos. I've gone from +21 STR to +15.

In comparing the gear I don't see how +2 ACC, ATT +4 can compare to +4 STR.

Gear right now is...
Hauberk
Thick Mufflers
Thick Breeches
Thick Sollerets
Chivalrous Chain
Minuet Earring
Coral Earring
Rajas Ring
Sniper's Ring
Swift Belt/Potent Belt
Amemet Mantle (replacing with Foragers at 71)
Vassago's/Pole Grip/Bomb Core

Just standign around...

STR 15
DEX 10
ATT 390 (without a head piece)



Edited, Apr 29th 2009 3:09pm by Shastal
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#2 Apr 29 2009 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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guilly's output is more dependant on actually landing 4/4 hits than any amount of str you can stack on it at your level. i'd use the celata when you're using guilly unbuffed, and the burgeonet when using souleater (if you're using SE with WS at all, which is either a good idea or a really really bad one depending on situation).

if your sig is correct and you're a 68 drk you have major gear upgrades soon; o hat will be your standard WS headpiece for guillotine for some time to come (low eva situations/feint nonwithstanding). to maximize your drk you'll need several guillotine setups; this isn't sam where we can just throw str on and call it a day. check the sticky on the 'read this if you're 75' and there's a breakdown of what acc totals you'll need at what merit camp, and how to find your total accuracy, etc.
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#3 Apr 29 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Just hit drk 69 this morning.

I have O hat and walahra turbin already.
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
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72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#4 Apr 29 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Celata is 3acc/4atk (not 2/4)

Ohat is definitely superior to Chaos on anything where acc isn't capped since 4 str is going to add some double digit amount of damage, whereas missing a hit is a 25% decrease in damage. Given your other listed gear accuracy will probably be a problem.

Also once you hit 70+ there are a lot more important gear options so I'ld aim to upgrade your weapon when you can because the difference in base damage will easily negate any amount of str you add to a lower damage scythe (Vas's 84 vs. Ven 97). Unless you happen to do a lot of colibri level sync Vassago's Scythe is the first thing to upgrade since 13 base damage will do much more for Guil than 4 str.
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#5 Apr 29 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Molione's is what I'm aiming for. And yes I do a lot of Colibri pts with a friend.

I wont' be getting Nuevo, I need the Redingote for SMN.

Hunting more haste gear for TP setup while I get bst and war to 69.

Edited, Apr 29th 2009 5:56pm by Shastal
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#6 Apr 29 2009 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shastal wrote:
I wont' be getting Nuevo, I need the Redingote for SMN.
That's perfectly fine since the Nuevo is really only meh (especially for drk). At least that's what I think about.
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#7 Apr 30 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Default
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Unfortunately I don't see anything until 70+ that will give me more ACC than what I have on my WS setup.

43 (with Vassago)
46 (Vassago + Minuet)
40 (with Lockheart)
43 (Lockheart + Minuett)

If I toss Vassago now for Darksteel Scythe (haven't been any on AH in a week. The one that was sold yesterday, obviously I wasn't online) I'd drop down to 38 ACC without minuet.

oh... Dex +10
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#8 Apr 30 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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there aren't many options till 70+; level up and get there!

use the acc formula and/or the calculator in the sticky to find out what your accuracy will be on a given camp/mob. it's pretty accurate with my own parsed data. it'll at least give you an idea of what to shoot for/where to adjust.
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Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
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#9 Apr 30 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Never think yourself too mighty to invert a bit and pop accuracy food and then dial out some of your accuracy gear for attack. I had a smoother 65-70 popping sushi and swinging away in my lolSTR set, just because of the lack of gear.
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#10 Apr 30 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I do use Sushi if I'm not doing Colibri...

I know I'm not supposed to get hate but I tend to lol...
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#11 Apr 30 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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marinara pizza NOT sushi >.>
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#12 Apr 30 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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I don't like to use 3hr food. I'm not always able to be in a pt that long.
____________________________
83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#13 Apr 30 2009 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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how long do you normally party for?
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#14 Apr 30 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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That's just it, I never know how long I'll be online. I don't pt unless I know I have at least an hour.
____________________________
83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#15 Apr 30 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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it's like 10k, use it and not suck. if you dont' pt longer and have to go to a mage job or w/e, then get on a lowjob and just die to erase it...
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#16 May 01 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
gigasnail wrote:
it's like 10k, use it and not suck. if you dont' pt longer and have to go to a mage job or w/e, then get on a lowjob and just die to erase it...
I have just gone out and killed a lesser colbri to get rid of food in the past lol
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#17 May 02 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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gigasnail wrote:
it's like 10k, use it and not suck. if you dont' pt longer and have to go to a mage job or w/e, then get on a lowjob and just die to erase it...

I agree, if you were poorer I'd say that you can get by with Sushi but considering you're buying things like Foragers and Moliones.. (Foragers I consider to be last-upgrade onry for a DD considering its terrible cost:benefit ratio, Moliones only good with the right STP setup .)

Considering you're buying those you can easily afford to pop a Marinara Pizza. If you can't? Stick with Amemet+1.

Hell you could easily pop Crab Sushi's (4k a stack last time I saw) on Colibri which is far more important than getting these complete finale upgrades (Foragers/Moliones).

Oh wait it's shastal
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#18 May 02 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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LordFaramir wrote:
Moliones only good with the right STP setup


a standard 21 stp setup is still a 6 hit with molly under any circumstance other than starting with 0 tp, no med/abstp, or bolo'ing multiple hits on guillotine.

agreed that this probably isn't your 'starter' scythe due to the pricetag if you can't find some friends to help kill/camp or lack the jobs to solo the NM's, just emphasizing that a 6 hit isn't any harder to get with this than a 528 delay scythe. it's still the best level 70 scythe by a country mile.



Edited, May 2nd 2009 9:42pm by gigasnail
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#19 May 03 2009 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

I agree, if you were poorer I'd say that you can get by with Sushi but considering you're buying things like Foragers and Moliones.. (Foragers I consider to be last-upgrade onry for a DD considering its terrible cost:benefit ratio, Moliones only good with the right STP setup .)

Considering you're buying those you can easily afford to pop a Marinara Pizza. If you can't? Stick with Amemet+1.

Hell you could easily pop Crab Sushi's (4k a stack last time I saw) on Colibri which is far more important than getting these complete finale upgrades (Foragers/Moliones).


No I'm not rich. I farm my mithran tail off to buy the best gear I can. I'll stop leveling a job for weeks to make gil to buy something I need. When I got vermy it was close to 8M... I started mining/farming/synthing/gardening at SMN 50 and got so sick of Gusgen/Oldton.
____________________________
83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#20 May 03 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shastal wrote:
Quote:

I agree, if you were poorer I'd say that you can get by with Sushi but considering you're buying things like Foragers and Moliones.. (Foragers I consider to be last-upgrade onry for a DD considering its terrible cost:benefit ratio, Moliones only good with the right STP setup .)

Considering you're buying those you can easily afford to pop a Marinara Pizza. If you can't? Stick with Amemet+1.

Hell you could easily pop Crab Sushi's (4k a stack last time I saw) on Colibri which is far more important than getting these complete finale upgrades (Foragers/Moliones).


No I'm not rich. I farm my mithran tail off to buy the best gear I can. I'll stop leveling a job for weeks to make gil to buy something I need. When I got vermy it was close to 8M... I started mining/farming/synthing/gardening at SMN 50 and got so sick of Gusgen/Oldton.

You have enough to purchase Foragers and Moliones, that's like 1mil gil.

You could.. not purchase Foragers or Moliones, and use Tredecim and Amemet+1 for basically the same benefit and eat good food.

You'd be benefiting more by eating Marinara for like, what, 60~ att? Than the 5str and slight dot bonus from the above two pieces. Also being rich kind of implies that you worked for it, nobody just starts with money. Doesn't matter how much effort you put into the gil, 1 gil is 1 gil and buying good food will give you the most use out of that 1gil.
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#21 May 03 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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No I don't have 1M but I can make it in time. I have 7/8 hq staves, vermy and nobles. I can get it, may be a couple months but believe me I can. Besides Tredecim is still 5 lvls away.

Edited, May 3rd 2009 8:18pm by Shastal
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
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72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#22 May 03 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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i think you're grossly missing the point.
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#23 May 03 2009 at 6:09 PM Rating: Default
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Hitting 75 > any gear you get in the meanwhile.

This I must hammer my g/f with daily...

Edited, May 3rd 2009 7:10pm by Raelix
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#24 May 03 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Default
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Actually the Fourth Zaghnal may be better than Molions.

Same DMG as Vassaggo's but better delay and acc+7 I'll be checking this out.

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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#25 May 03 2009 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shastal wrote:
Actually the Fourth Zaghnal may be better than Molions.

Same DMG as Vassaggo's but better delay and acc+7 I'll be checking this out.


84dmg +7acc vs ~97dmg (w/fSTR) + better SE gear + a 6-hit?

I'm going to say no, not even close.

(did you misread weapon dmg maybe?)
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
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#26 May 03 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Default
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Checking it out doesn't mean I'm going to buy it. I may buy it until I get Moliones.
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#27 May 03 2009 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shastal wrote:
Actually the Fourth Zaghnal ->may be better than Molions.<-

Same DMG as Vassaggo's but better delay and acc+7 I'll be checking this out.

I'll try to be more obvious about what I'm replying to in the future
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Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#28 May 03 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Default
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I said "may" not "is" as far as ACC build its a good scythe.
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72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#29 May 03 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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with 14 less base damage and a sh*tty delay, molly/perdu/tred will burn it alive.

Edited, May 4th 2009 7:23am by gigasnail
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
#30 May 04 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shastal wrote:
I said "may" not "is" as far as ACC build its a good scythe.
and I said "not even close" as in "'may' is a vast over exaggeration of this scythe's relative worth"
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Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#31 May 24 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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i dunno... i just got my Chaos Hat+1.... and im a fan.. walmart/emo+1 woo

not really helping the conversation im just happy i picked up my +7 str hat today :D

and to answer your question, neither. go kill baist for a Patrocleus helm.
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#32 May 24 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Fourth Zag is for abusing Level Sync leaving the damage high while getting the delay as low as possible, plus accuracy syncs better too. Can do the same with Ferrara when sync'd to low levels - has the same damage of the highest NQ for the level but retains the crazy low delay.
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#33 May 24 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Same DMG as Vassaggo's but better delay and acc+7 I'll be checking this out.


vassy's is like...a level 58 weapon...
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shintasama wrote:
gigasnail wrote:
if everyone else followed your example, there'd be world peace and cake for all. you will find i am a generous god.

Don't listen to this! Giga is a cruel tentacle raping god!

lolgaxe wrote:
I voted for giga because I, for one, welcome our tentacled overlords.

His Excellency SillyXSara wrote:
We like our Bisexuals with tits, thank you.
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