Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Tanking w/paladin in abyssea.. how?Follow

#1 Oct 11 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
*
88 posts
So yeah I know for a lot of basic seal nms this is beyond a breeze. But in some cases i'm just wondering how?

Its not just nin, dnc, thf etc are more efficient tanks, but particularly when it comes to nms with added effect anything--paladin seems to get rocked.

I tried tanking azdaja and its en-doom, en-petrify just pretty much rocked me. Also nms with enspells, while it can be done 134+ added damage with the chance to get followed up by a tp move or criticals are nothing to sneeze at. (Here's looking at you vnm 2 garuda) While I wiped to that nm and that was more a fluke (I never planned on tanking, but nin dc'd midfight)
its making me wonder how exactly i'm going to handle the tier nm's.

For gamayun I had ascending, apoc and rr atmas.. bad mistake as whm got magic aggro'd by surveyor and died and I ran out of mp, but I thought 100 wind resist might stop a possible 1 shot. I think i'll just do my last 2 abyssite quests for the hp/mp abyssites instead to guarantee a 1 shot is impossible on these particular nms. (Maybe it is, I have limited experience tanking them) anyway any thoughts? Atm I have full +1/+2feet/twilight set and badelaire +2. What I want to know are your thoughts on plds effectiveness as I thought nin was just better at maintaining hate--not the better overall tank for certain mobs.

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 12:07am by Thelastremainingintime

Edited, Oct 12th 2011 4:52pm by Thelastremainingintime
#2 Oct 12 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
NIN deals more damage, has better evasion, gets a **** ton of shadows to block nasty tp moves / en-effects (which also make back-tanking some NMs feasible, forcing them to use specific TP moves; i.e. forcing Khimairas to spam Plague Swipe instead of possibly using Fulmination), has access to more red procs, and can block instakills with Migawari (Discoid, ??? Needles, etc.) that would flatten any PLD without EA/Scherzo.

Outside Abyssea PLD is still king, and you can certainly make PLD work inside if you bring proper support, but NIN has a distinct advantage.

In any case, Merit abyssites are an absolute must if you're going to be tanking a lot in there, definitely make those a priority.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#3 Oct 13 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
**
879 posts
Was a useless rant, please ignore it.

Edited, Oct 13th 2011 3:30pm by TheKhory
____________________________
Khory

TybudX wrote:
The hardest part of this game is finding 5-17 other people who aren't retarded.
#4Nicholiathan, Posted: Oct 13 2011 at 9:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Fixed it for you. Paladin can not tank in any situation where you have any real DD in the party. The exception being that if the DD are many levels lower than the Paladin or severely undergeared while the Paladin is geared with elite class equipment.
#5 Oct 14 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
**
824 posts
Did you really just say PLD is the inferior tank to any DD outside Abyssea? Cause that's adorable.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#6 Dec 20 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
**
275 posts
No, they said paladin can't hold hate off decently geared DD, meaning when everyone is capped on hate. At least, I assume that's what they were implying.
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#7 Dec 20 2011 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
**
824 posts
Well of course; if you want a PLD to tank, your DDs can't be going all-out, else they're going to be tanking instead. This is how the game has always worked since the beginning of time.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#8 Dec 20 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
**
275 posts
The problem, I think, is that holding back is becoming less feasible, at the same time, overall survivability has generally gone up. Which is why 'how things have always worked since the beginning of time' is, well, not working so well any more. The enmity mechanics, or at very least the point they cap at, needs some degree of addressing.
#9 Dec 20 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
While I won't disagree that the enmity system needs work, I don't see how DDs playing smart instead of just trying to zerg everything they fight is becoming less feasible. If DD tanks work you don't bring a PLD in the first place; if they die too much, you bring a PLD and use strategy, same as it's always been.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#10 Dec 21 2011 at 2:01 AM Rating: Decent
****
7,102 posts
Quote:
I don't see how DDs playing smart instead of just trying to zerg everything they fight is becoming less feasible. If DD tanks work you don't bring a PLD in the first place; if they die too much, you bring a PLD and use strategy, same as it's always been.

People didn't used to hit the hate cap. Now, they do. Because of the way hate decays, it is literally impossible to "use strategy" to keep hate on a PLD (or any tank), because everyone will hit the hate cap quite quickly, and at that point the best tank in the world can do nothing to keep hate on himself.

It's also worth noting that damage output has increased dramatically, but non-damage hate tools are roughly unchanged.

"Same as its always been" hasn't been available for years, and the rising level cap leaves it dead and buried.
#11 Dec 21 2011 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
Again, this is simply a result of people refusing to use strategy and treating everything like it's Abyssea. It's like everyone forgot that Trick Attack exists, or that you can actually double the amount of damage you can deal within the hate cap by using Enmity- gear. There's even an item that hastens hate decay when taking damage; how many people actually use it?

Like I said, the system is in need of an overhaul, absolutely. That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of options available to manage enmity as is, and that the majority of the playerbase has either forgotten about them or never heard of them in the first place.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#12 Dec 21 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
931 posts
I have recently taken up PLD, at 99 now, decent gear (no Almace, Aegis, etc) and it is pretty much impossible to hold hate for long. The problem is the burn mentality that this game has become. All the real PT strategy is gone. Nobody place hate, SC's, burst, etc any more, its all about doing max damage, as fast as possible, at any cost. The hate tools PLD have are decent, but the timers are all so long you could never use them in a way where they are truely useful... for very long. I think I honestly hold hate better and tank better on THF.

Nobody subs /THF anymore to TA their WS's on you, people just use the sub that gives them the max damage to burn down the mob. Of course why not when aby gives you SO many ways to do insane damage, but not anything to really help you hold hate (+enmity just doesnt seem to do that much). A change in play style is needed if they want to put some effort back in the game, which would be nice. I remember doing Freeze SC bursts and feeling like a god. It was structured, fun, took timing and team work. Oh the days...
____________________________
Ferrious 99BLU/99Thf/99Blm/99Pld/68Rdm
d(~.^)b <(Quetzalcoatl)
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 12 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (12)