PLD/MNKFollow

Any thoughts on straight tanking mobs/nm as this combo with shield and counter defense?

Counter - stops incoming attack from ever landing, Counterstance base chance 50%

Shield Blocks from a pld stop more damage than loldefense ever does

depending on Atma choice( like roaring laughter), can increase countering up to 70%, if you got the WOTG +counter ER even more. The Monk forums still debating if there is an 80% cap on countering or if its higher.

is this gonna be main stream in any way? probably not, but it could be interesting.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe Shield Blocks and Defense are separate calculations. Then again, I can't seem to find any info on it, if they are, then I'm an idiot and PLD/MNK isn't quite as awful as I thought it would be.

What I'm saying is, I was under the impression shield blocks reduce damage taken after defense by a %, not that they reduce damage before defense and then defense is never calculated. For instance, as a RDM/BLU with Cocoon + Taco I often block attacks resulting in 0 damage, in other situations without those spells/food I block and take some damage still.

So although you may take only a tiny % of damage when you block normally, with 0 defense, I'm pretty sure block would help but you'd still be getting hit pretty hard. We often underestimate the value of defense, anyone who fights a lot of fomors knows how deadly attacks can become when your defense drops from ~450 to ~50. It's possible it's still viable, but you'd be taking more damage than a Monk that can get their counter higher, and dealing less damage, so it becomes a question of, why bother?

hmmm, as a mnk tank, and a pld, this seems like an interesting idea to me. When tanking on mnk, generally, the trick is having a sh*tton of HP, and a sh*tton of counter, and riding Perfect Counter and Counter Stance. Roaring Laughter is 10% counter, and I would assume Gnarled Horn is the same, given the difference in labeling between NM atma and Synthetic Atma. On a monk, Relic boots boost counterstance to 60%, merits to 65%, GH/RL to ~75%, and perfect counter averages to ~15% counter rate unless you're unlucky or fighting something that spams amnesia. On pld, I would wager that ~60% counter rate isn't harder, maybe 65%. Counterstance drops your defense to just what you get from your vit/2. Counter proc rate is based on weapon accuracy though, so how well it works will depend heavily on your gear and sword skill.

Pld loses out on the huge HP and B+ evasion that mnk has, but gains more durabilty from shield blocks and the ability to cure yourself more often then once every 5 minutes, and the benefit of phalanx to help damage reduction. Countering prevents spell interruption as well, so that's a plus. In addition, /mnk does not have provoke, but once you're on the hate table, boost builds a lot of hate when used every 15 seconds, and counterstance itself gives the same hate as shield bash, iirc.

If anything, pld/mnk would need a bit of a different tanking set than normal tanking, focusing on HP and Accuracy. You'd also want to have a pure VIT set up handy for chakra, which heals HP based on vit x2. If you have a whm that's on the ball, and have the right atma, maybe something like Gnarled Horn and Mounted Champion, it may need 3 atma to be really effective, so that you can throw in a refresh atma to help with the cure spamming you'll be doing on yourself.

Well, it's an interesting idea, if nothing else.

Uh...what?

Probably easily done with PLD/MNK too, just have to cure yourself a bit more if Counter doesn't land as often. Would work really nice if you have a good Gsword too. I've done it a few times since I've gotten my Espafut +2 and it's quite amusing.

I haven't actually gotten a chance to use Torcleaver with a DD sub yet. I have on PLD/WHM in a low-man group where I was DDing and healing though. Did Manohra with RR/Apoc/Minikin and Yellow Curry and Crits were in the expected 400-500 range Torcleaver was averaging like 1500ish. I spiked into the 2000s fairly easily but I'd get some low end ones too.

Torcleaver's pretty reliant on STR and ATK though so PLD/WHM without a proper atma makes it harder to reach higher numbers. I'm also behind in Gsword skill, I have like 320ish after merits and I wasn't using the high end attack food so I definitely wasn't getting the most of it. Even considering PLD's lack of attack traits, I can see it doing pretty nice even for us though. Outside of Abyssea, I've actually spiked close to 2k or over it in Walk of Echoes. Unfortunately, no screenshot.

As for CDC, I don't know as I don't have it. I'd guess that CDC would provide the higher WS damage in Abyssea because it's a crit-based but I assume the DOT off just the Espafut would be better as DMG on the comparable weapons is 2 to 1 (i.e. Calaboldg Lv 90 is 120 DMG whereas Almace Lv. 90 is 61 DMG). Can PLD/SAMs do a 6 hit with a Gsword?



Edited, Jan 31st 2011 8:19pm by Shouta

Attack is actually very important for Torcleaver because it does not receive the attack boost that many other 1-hit WS's receive.

a pimped out Torcleaver build, prioritizing Str, Vit, and Atk, would probably look something like this:

Ammo: Bibiki Shell (Vit+4)
Head: Twighlight Helm (Str+10 Vit+10 Atk+25)
Neck: Fortitude Torque (Vit+5)
Ears: +str/vit earrings
Body: Ares Cuirass (Str+12 Vit+12 Atk+24) or Shadow Breastplate (Str+10 Vit+10 Atk+25)
Hands: Creed Gauntlets +2 (Str+11 Vit+11)
Ring1: Spiral Ring (Str+5 Vit +5)
Ring2: Rajas Ring (Str+5 (If needed for an x-hit build))
Back: Forager's Mantle (Str+3 Atk+15)
Waist: Warwolf Belt (Str+5 Vit+5)
Legs: Ares legs? (Str+6 Vit+6)
Feet: Rutter Sabatons (Str+3 Vit+2 Atk+5) or Ares Sollerets (Vit+3 Atk+7)

A non-god gear scenario set up would probably look more like:

Ammo: Bibiki Shell (Vit+4)
Head: Perle Salade (Str+5 Vit+5 Atk+7)
Neck: Chiv. chain?
Ears: +str/vit earrings
Body: Byrnie +1 (Str+5 Vit+5 Atk+25) or Byrnie (Str+3 Vit+3 Atk+20) (lolbyrnie...)
Hands: Creed Gauntlets +1 (Str+7 Vit+7)
Ring1: Spiral Ring (Str+5 Vit+5)
Ring2: Rajas Ring (Str+5 (If needed for an x-hit build))
Back: Forager's Mantle (Str+3 Atk+15)
Waist: Warwolf Belt (Str+5 Vit+5)
Legs: Valor Legs? (Str+5)
Feet: Rutter Sabatons (Str+3 Vit+2 Atk+5)

In either case, mixing/matching as needed for an x-hit build/what you have access too.