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A few questions.Follow

#1 Dec 07 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking about possibly playing PLD again when I get some free time soon, but I have a few questions.

#1, Is Joyeuse still the best "all around" sword? If not and if there is better, what has replaced it? Just curious what I need in the sword department. Furthermore, are there any new weapon skills I need to get past atonement?

#2, What about shields? Is Koenig/Terror shields gimp now? If so, what has replaced them?

#3, Any specific gear I would want to really pick up since level 76+?

#4, I keep hearing some people say PLD is worthless now, however I've taken that with a grain of salt. Why are they saying it? And is PLD/RDM still good at solo and low man work?

Thanks for any help.
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Long Live Vana Diel.
#2 Dec 07 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
I was thinking about possibly playing PLD again when I get some free time soon, but I have a few questions.

#1, Is Joyeuse still the best "all around" sword? If not and if there is better, what has replaced it? Just curious what I need in the sword department. Furthermore, are there any new weapon skills I need to get past atonement?

Joyeuse is fine. Personally I use Organics + Joyeuse DW for exp'ing (Joyeuse + shield when 'tanking'), but that's hardly the bleeding edge of PLD DD. Almace is the 'it' sword of the moment, I would think, for those willing to put in the time and effort.

Atonement is directly nerfed in Abyssea it seems, and indirectly nerfed everywhere (including--and especially in--Abyssea) due to DDs ability to hit harder with the level increase. It is worthwhile to have an Sanguine Blade build for at least Abyssea, and I'm (warily) eyeing Chant du Cygne.




EndlessJourney wrote:
#2, What about shields? Is Koenig/Terror shields gimp now? If so, what has replaced them?

Those are fine, but personally I use Seigneur Shield as my size 3, and Simba Buckler as my size 1.


EndlessJourney wrote:
#3, Any specific gear I would want to really pick up since level 76+?

I'd start here: http://www.ffxiah.com/search/item?q=Creed


EndlessJourney wrote:
#4, I keep hearing some people say PLD is worthless now, however I've taken that with a grain of salt. Why are they saying it? And is PLD/RDM still good at solo and low man work?

MNKs with their much higher HP are just as easy (if not more so) to keep alive, especially in Abyssea with HP Atma.

Just about all well geared DDs can generate enmity faster than PLDs (and, yes, it's almost easy for them to do that with auto-attack alone in Abyssea with the Atmas--see a trend?) these days. So, if the better damage mitigation from the shield isn't needed (because healers can pump out more cure now) while we can't compete on enmity output, and we're not as good as MNKs are at not getting one-shotted, all we are left with is the ability to Cure.

And, if that curing output not what the alliance needs, then we became excess baggage. The days of true tanks are gone, and PLD has been demoted to a hybrid DD-backup-healer job. (Slight exaggeration, but I think the points are valid.)

I've never used PLD/RDM much, so I'll leave that to others. I would note that Phalanx is now a native spell, while Refresh is accessible from PLD82/RDM41 and up. Ying and yang, etc. Is there anything PLD/RDM can solo/small-group better than NIN/DNC or DNC/NIN?

Edited, Dec 7th 2010 5:59pm by IfritnoItazura
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#3 Dec 07 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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PLD/RDM still has some nice perks, but none of them are enmity related at all. As mentioned, native phalanx negates one huge benefit of /RDM. Self refresh makes up for it, especially when solo. Enspells have lost a LOT of luster, given Enlight, but still have some merit (avatars have never been easier, for instance). Barspells are situationally useful and a larger MP pool makes for more longevity. Fast cast doesn't hurt, either, nor does convert. It's still a solid choice of sub for solo - it's just not useful in parties, nor is it the tanking sub it used to be (see the great enmity nerf earlier this year). Aquaveil is useful, too, even if Reprisal typically trumps it. It's still my default "I'm going to eat a **** ton of magic damage" sub.

One thing I haven't played around with yet is the Khanda +1 with OAT2-4. I'm assuming the split will work out a lot like the 2-3 (50:30:20), but the extra damage generated from a 4 hit will be quite nice. And the tp return isn't that bad, either. The damage is slowly creaping up on Joyeuse, as well, and with careful planning, it looks like you can offhand a OAT2-3 alongside the OAT2-4 (non +1 and all that), making it a decent choice for DW. We'll have to see.
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Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#4 Dec 07 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the responses. I'm awaiting more as well.

I think it's funny how Square Enix started with PLD being so weak, then gradually made it so powerful only to make it weak again. It's amazing how they don't think these thinks through, it honestly boggles my mind and makes me wonder if they really are trying to put any effort into things, but when I see moogles everywhere instead of actual quests I think I have my answers.

That being said, don't you folks think there will be some adjustments made to PLD in the future to bring back it's tanking glory?

I've got 12 jobs at 75 last I checked and haven't really done much since abyssea came out. I'm trying to get a good feel for what to do and how and what job I should pick. I really don't want to level anymore than one or two jobs since anymore all this new gear is just bigger time sinks, all my previous gear has kind of fallen to the wayside but most importantly most of this new great gear required to be proficient on your said job is job specific. I've heard how big of a headache these seals are to get so I don't want to have to do it on 12 different jobs, I'll be surprised if I have enough time to do it on one of them.

This game has become something so sad for me lately and everyone is so caught up in abyssea and being handed new shinies that they can't see what's right in front of them, however instead of continuing to fight a never ending fight like I use to I've chosen to just pick a job that will allow me to continue on in vana diel if only in the most minuscule way. I'm trying to pick something that I can solo on and be useful on. I have TH4 on my thf and thought about continuing it on but have heard that getting the +2 TH5 boots is really hard to do and I'm not sure if THF can solo a lot of things as good as PLD/RDM.

Anyhow, sorry for rambling on there for a minute, just trying to figure out what to do to be able to enjoy the game.

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#5 Dec 09 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
I was thinking about possibly playing PLD again when I get some free time soon, but I have a few questions.

#1, Is Joyeuse still the best "all around" sword? If not and if there is better, what has replaced it? Just curious what I need in the sword department. Furthermore, are there any new weapon skills I need to get past atonement?
I still use joyeuse since it trumps most of the magian weapons, but the WoE weapon or the OA4 weapon is probably better.


Quote:
#2, What about shields? Is Koenig/Terror shields gimp now? If so, what has replaced them?

#3, Any specific gear I would want to really pick up since level 76+?
I use a gleaming shield since it's got a hidden "increase block rate" bonus. Basic gear you'll want to pick would be perle gear and then work on the creed +1 set. Any other worthwhile gear that's level 76+ is usually rare/ex.

Quote:
#4, I keep hearing some people say PLD is worthless now, however I've taken that with a grain of salt. Why are they saying it? And is PLD/RDM still good at solo and low man work?
In a large group of skilled players, I'll agree that PLD is a waste. If you only have a few people or with a bunch of noobs, I still hold that PLD is a good job. It's not the best DD, but is a great safety net. PLD/RDM isn't bad and still works for a sub when fighting mobs that deal mostly magic damage, but for soloing, I would think that /SCH wins out.

With /SCH, you get...

-na spells
Erase
Aquaveil
Regen II
Reraise
Aspir
Stoneskin

For JAs,
Sublimation is nice if you're not in Abyssea
Penury for half MP cure IV's
Celerity for quick casting stoneskin

You also get Dark Arts, which I'm pretty sure boosts your skills high enough to cast something like Aspir. Sandstorm if you don't have fast pants.

The biggest advantage that /RDM has over all this though is Ice Spikes, bar spells, and convert.
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#6 Dec 09 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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2,720 posts
xypin wrote:
With /SCH, you get...

-na spells
Erase
Aquaveil
Regen II
Reraise
Aspir
Stoneskin

For JAs,
Sublimation is nice if you're not in Abyssea
Penury for half MP cure IV's
Celerity for quick casting stoneskin

You also get Dark Arts, which I'm pretty sure boosts your skills high enough to cast something like Aspir. Sandstorm if you don't have fast pants.

The biggest advantage that /RDM has over all this though is Ice Spikes, bar spells, and convert.


I hadn't even thought to consider /SCH.... I keep forgetting it has Stoneskin now. And, yes, I can vouch that with /sch, Dark Arts makes Aspir AND Drain worth using. I used them all the time as BLU/SCH in campaign and had essentially infinite MP and the ability to tank multiple mobs at once. Manifested Aspir is AWESOME for refilling MP...

SCH certainly does gain a lot of ground on RDM for solo work.
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Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
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