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Issues re: Level 90 cap riseFollow

#1 Sep 24 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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It's never too early to discuss potential pluses & minuses of certain SJs in upcoming cap rise updates, so I've decided to make a thread regarding the (assumed) upcoming raising of the level cap to 90.

Here are some issues that I'd like to share with the class before we find out about future natural JAs and spells:

*While /WAR will always be the given support job for tanking event NMs and EXP targets, how much will /DNC and /DRK close the gap given the JAs and spells that become available at 45 (i.e. Aggressor v. Haste Samba v. Absorb-TP, and I do know that Dark Magic skill's halved in that case) in the case of soloing and Campaigning?

*In the case of /DNC, would you prefer Haste Samba or Enlight?

*In the case of /WAR, how will Fencer and Aggressor play out in terms of Paladins' offensive potential?

*Would you use Aggressor as a backdoor means of increasing Shield skill?


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#2 Sep 24 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:

*While /WAR will always be the given support job for tanking event NMs and EXP targets, how much will /DNC and /DRK close the gap given the JAs and spells that become available at 45 (i.e. Aggressor v. Haste Samba v. Absorb-TP, and I do know that Dark Magic skill's halved in that case) in the case of soloing and Campaigning?

By Lv.72 or so (or even earlier), most things you can easily 'tank' as a PLD/WAR, you won't need tanks for, especially with exp'ing. And, Absorb-TP from /DRK on any target which needs a tank is just a silly idea.

/DNC will likely still be the most effective SJ in Campaign Battle, and /NIN for most other situations, including exp'ing. (Some will say /SAM and Great Sword would be even better, but killing Flash recast with Seigan or Hasso sounds stupid to me.)

For monsters which do not hit very hard and has no CE memory, /DRK with haste setup will give you more VE spikes than /WAR. Plus, Stun from /DRK actually do land quite a bit, so it is a form of damage mitigation as well. There aren't to many of these, though.

For more normal, hard hitting monsters with VE memory, /NIN wins.

AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
*In the case of /DNC, would you prefer Haste Samba or Enlight?

Enlight doesn't help you tank; additional effects proc'ing do not count toward enmity. Doing more damage with your sword will count toward enmity, though, and Haste Samba helps you with that. Drain Samba will keep you from having to spend as much TP on cures, so you can WS more, which lets you tank better.

AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
*In the case of /WAR, how will Fencer and Aggressor play out in terms of Paladins' offensive potential?

Aggressor is helpful when you are substantially far away from the accuracy cap. But /WAR isn't used for very dangerous critters, so you shouldn't be so far from cap that a sushi or pizza can't fix. So... Nice, but not exactly awesome.

Fencer is nice, and nicer the worse cRatio you have--but terrible cRatio is when you fight something substantially higher in level, so you're not very likely to be on /WAR.

I guess Lv.45 JA/JT from /WAR would make all these PLD/WARs I see in Abyssea exp groups perform a bit better, but they all should be on /NIN and eating pizza instead. (Two PLD/WARs in alliance last night: one had 44.04% melee hit rate, the other had 73.39%--a 'lol' and a 'meh'.)



AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
*Would you use Aggressor as a backdoor means of increasing Shield skill?
I don't see how it increases shield skill--all it does is to make a PLD/WAR even less evasive. Unless you mean as a way to sneak in a skill up session in Abyssea exp alliance?




Edited, Sep 24th 2010 4:51pm by IfritnoItazura
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#3 Sep 25 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Enlight doesn't help you tank; additional effects proc'ing do not count toward enmity.


Well if your acc isn't capped, enlight will actually help you keep hate since it has a built in acc bonus. But then again in XP if you eat appropriate food that won't acc shouldn'T be a problem and for bosses/HNM and such, well you'll most likely be subbing NIN anyway so go enlight!!
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#4 Sep 27 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
For monsters which do not hit very hard and has no CE memory, /DRK with haste setup will give you more VE spikes than /WAR. Plus, Stun from /DRK actually do land quite a bit, so it is a form of damage mitigation as well. There aren't to many of these, though.

For more normal, hard hitting monsters with VE memory, /NIN wins.
I must have fallen behind in information in the last year, but what's a NM without CE memory? or rather... I understand CE and VE, but how do I know if the NM I'm fighting has no memory?
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#5 Sep 28 2010 at 4:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm. I can't say for sure if any NM actually has no CE, but there is that Chigre (ZNM). People say it has "rapid enmity decay", but if you treat it as if you cannot generate any CE (i.e. no memory of CE) and just concentrate on constant VE generation, you can sort of tank it.

Before the RDM enmity nerf, I used PLD/RDM with some success, though not consistently. Eventually, I gave up tanking it and just told all the DDs (including BLMs) to go full out--they don't seem to mind the occasional KO or two anyway.
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#6 Oct 10 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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i think he's refering to NMs like the formor NMs (such as lugh)

they basically attack whoever did the last action on them from what i've seen.
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