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PLD/BRD???Follow

#1 Jun 30 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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I was taking a look at the new emnity tables (which can be found here) and felt kind of depressed at the loss of the emnity tools from /rdm. Doing a little poking around i found the following under the BRD section:
 
Songs 
	        CE	VE	Level	MP	Casting (sec) 
 	 	 	 	 	  
Knight's Minne	20	80	1	0	8.00 
Valor Minuet	20	80	3	0	8.00 
Army's Paeon	20	80	5	0	8.00 
Foe Requiem	100	240	7	0	2.00 
Herb Pastoral	20	80	9	0	8.00 
Light Threnody	100	240	10	0	2.00 
 

Now i fully realize that /brd would be 'lol', but just as a thought experiment how would spamming threnodies (casting time 2 sec) and Requiems do for holding hate? I'm sure RDM is still the superior sub, with stoneskin and other benefits, but how would /brd stack up in terms of emnity generation?

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 11:44am by Demonye
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#2 Jun 30 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Check out the blu table.
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#3 Jun 30 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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I did, and tbh wasn't thrilled:
 
Blue Magic (1-50)     CE	VE	Level	MP	Casting 
Cocoon	               1	80	8	10	1.75 
Metallic Body	       1	300	8	19	7.00 
Sheep Song	     320	320	16	22	3.00 
Soporific	     320	320	24	38	3.00 
Sound Blast	       1	320	32	25	4.00 
Chaotic Eye	       1	320	32	13	3.00 
Blank Gaze	     320	320	38	25	3.00 
Venom Shell	       1	320	42	86	3.00 
MP Drainkiss	     320	0	42	20	4.00 
Stinking Gas	     320	320	44	37	4.00 
Awful Eye	       1	180	46	32	2.50 
Geist Wall	     320	320	46	25	3.00 
Jettatura	     180	1020	48	37	0.50 
Refueling	       1	300	48	29	1.50 

These are all the spells that /blu gets before 99. I have omitted all of the spells that require damage or curing to generate enmity (since there's no guarantee that offensive spells will land, and we can already cure ourselves).

While there ARE some gems there, the problem is that all the ones that generate both CE and VE cost at LEAST 22MP.
The Threnodies and the Requiems ARE less CE/VE, but at least they are free. And, asside from jettatura/refueling, cast faster then all the blu spells.

Note: this is not to knock any benefits from cocoon, wild carrot, or other spells. This is merely measuring enmity generation.
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My brother is an Emo-DRK, I am a kind PLD.
Go figure.

Monks do it with their hands.
Scholars do it in the classroom.
Puppetmasters do it with dolls.
Ninjas do it and then disappear.
Thieves do it then run away.
#4 Jul 01 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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1,147 posts
Quote:
While there ARE some gems there, the problem is that all the ones that generate both CE and VE cost at LEAST 22MP.
The Threnodies and the Requiems ARE less CE/VE, but at least they are free. And, asside from jettatura/refueling, cast faster then all the blu spells.

These spells are actually identical in cost and cast time of the ones used on pld/rdm (dispel and sleep). Only problem with /blu really is the lack of a good stoneskin and loss of fast cast. In the end though for some things having cocoon with native phalanx will more than make up for it.

Would be nice if there were some cheap VE generators like /rdm.
#5 Jul 01 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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You'd generally get more enmity out of a sword swing than most of those. Consider that you'll be sitting there casting them for a good bit of time, and thus not swinging/gaining TP for Atonement, it'd seem like a net loss for enmity - not really a good idea at all.
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#6 Jul 01 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Pre-update /BRD was excellent for crowd control since you could tag mobs using Threnodies and then Etude yourself to very high levels of CE. Since Sleep doesn't generate much CE any longer it isn't as useful.

But straight tanking any high level NM you will not be able sustain CE because of the loss of CE due to damage taken.

If NIN ever got a good way of generating VE, then NIN/BRD would be an excellent HNM tank.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 1:46pm by spicychickenzz
#7 Jul 01 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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7,106 posts
Quote:
If NIN ever got a good way of generating VE, then NIN/BRD would be an excellent HNM tank.

NIN/BRD was so much fun before it got killed. Mazurka tanking was the first real tanking innovation since blink-tanking, requiring actual new skills, and paying attention to new things.

SE's habit of "all or nothing" revisions with gameplay is really frustrating. If BRD, RDM, or DRK have unbalanced tanking potential, why not just balance it instead of removing it entirely? This last change pretty much neutered NIN HNM tanking, which can't have been what SE was planning. It's hard to believe that this is the same design team that embraced blink-tanking when players unexpectedly originated it back in the day.

Grumble mutter nerf boo grumble.
#8 Aug 15 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Demonye wrote:
I did, and tbh wasn't thrilled:
 
Blue Magic (1-50)     CE	VE	Level	MP	Casting 
Cocoon	               1	80	8	10	1.75 
Metallic Body	       1	300	8	19	7.00 
Sheep Song	     320	320	16	22	3.00 
Soporific	     320	320	24	38	3.00 
Sound Blast	       1	320	32	25	4.00 
Chaotic Eye	       1	320	32	13	3.00 
Blank Gaze	     320	320	38	25	3.00 
Venom Shell	       1	320	42	86	3.00 
MP Drainkiss	     320	0	42	20	4.00 
Stinking Gas	     320	320	44	37	4.00 
Awful Eye	       1	180	46	32	2.50 
Geist Wall	     320	320	46	25	3.00 
Jettatura	     180	1020	48	37	0.50 
Refueling	       1	300	48	29	1.50 

These are all the spells that /blu gets before 99. I have omitted all of the spells that require damage or curing to generate enmity (since there's no guarantee that offensive spells will land, and we can already cure ourselves).

While there ARE some gems there, the problem is that all the ones that generate both CE and VE cost at LEAST 22MP.
The Threnodies and the Requiems ARE less CE/VE, but at least they are free. And, asside from jettatura/refueling, cast faster then all the blu spells.

Note: this is not to knock any benefits from cocoon, wild carrot, or other spells. This is merely measuring enmity generation.


Well, in terms of enmity generation, it is worth looking at wild carrot, since it costs 37 mp as opposed to cure III's 46, and seems capped to exactly 10 hp less than cure III (It's based on mnd/vit/healing skill), with the same cast/recast time. the 9 mp trade off should add up pretty fast if you're the type to ride cure III for hate generation, and would benefit the fact that you'd be using more MP. There's also healing breeze, which caps around the same HP recovered as Wild Carrot, for 55 mp, and is AoE, so if you happen to be able to toss it out for 200ish hp per person it hits, it'll be like a mini-rampart/warcry, with an extra 150ish base CE per person hit.

There's also the handy job traits you can get, like Max MP boost, Auto Regen, and various killer traits Smiley: grin
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