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Ideal Vorpal Blade SetupFollow

#1 Feb 16 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Although Atonement is usually great, there are plenty of situations where Vorpal is still useful/fun. I'm trying to tweak my planned setup (not counting gear I don't plan to buy anytime soon, like Haub+1/Cuchulainn's) and have a few questions. I know that things are situational, but I typically use Vorpal for Salvage/Limbus/Nyzul/meriting mobs, etc. Still, I'd love to hear from anyone who's used it extensively on harder mobs too.

Neck: PCC (Soil Gorget eventually)
Earring 1: Suppanomimi
Earring 2: Brutal Earring
Body: Haubergeon
Hands: Hecatomb Mittens
Ring 1: Blood Ring vs. Flame Ring... Flame --> +5 STR, -5 ACC
Ring 2: Rajas Ring
Back: Cerberus Mantle
Waist: Life Belt vs. Warwolf Belt... Warwolf --> +5 STR, +5 DEX, -7.5 ACC
Legs: Askar Dirs
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Optical Hat
Food: Crab Sushi in merits, Dorado or Sole elsewhere, Marinara Pizza or Carbonara where hitting for 0s or capped ACC

Questions
1) Is there enough ACC in this setup?

2) Given the above, would +25 WS Acc Galea be overkill? It would allow me to switch out a lot of ACC gear, maybe. Or I could go with 2) STR+4, WSacc+15, Dex+4, crit dmg +2% ...

3) Anything else you'd like to add, RE: any slot^^

Bonus Question
When do you use Swift Blade, if ever? Seems like it might be better in situations where you end up with some extra TP, but I'm not sure how the math works out on the Accuracy bonus. I tend to default to Vorpal.

Edited, Feb 16th 2010 11:41pm by soopafeen
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#2 Feb 16 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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Hard question to answer without knowing what food you're using.

Without food, the gear you have listed (the accuracy options) has the following accuracy with the given hit rate (%) on Colibri:

Hume: 379.7 (82.3)
Elvaan: 378.2 (81.6)
Taru-taru: 379.7 (82.3)
Mithra: 383.2 (84.1)
Galka: 379.7 (82.3)

Dropping the belt and the ring (for your given) gives:

Hume: 367.2 (76.1)
Elvaan: 365.7 (75.3)
Taru-taru: 367.2 (76.1)
Mithra: 370.7 (77.8)
Galka: 367.2 (76.1)

Adding in the Galea (with +25 WS Acc) and not using the acc belt/ring

Hume: 382.2 (83.6)
Elvaan: 380.7 (82.8)
Taru-taru: 382.2 (83.6)
Mithra: 385.7 (85.3)
Galka: 382.2 (83.6)

Adding in the Galea (with +25 WS Acc) and using the acc belt/ring

Hume: 394.7 (89.8)
Elvaan: 393.2 (89.1)
Taru-taru: 394.7 (89.8)
Mithra: 398.2 (91.6)
Galka: 394.7 (89.8)

Again, this is all assuming you don't have food. Pizza and Crab Sushi both cap ALL of these choices. Notice that using the Galea with all Acc gear almost caps your hit rate on the Colibri without food, especially for the mithras out there.

I could crunch all this based on what food you're using, too, but I'd rather not get in to that. It sure looks, however, like you'll be capping accuracy fairly easily for getting some vorpals to land on those colibri.

(All calculations done using Evasion 339 for the level 82 Colibri)

Edit:

Didn't answer the three questions specifically.

#1: Numbers given above.

#2: Also answered somewhat above. Losing the 10 acc from Optical Hat might be enough to not make it worth it, but the +25 certainly lets you make other choices, especially given food.

#3: Nothing pressing.

Bonus: I haven't really used swift. I've been a vorpal boy my whole career (until recently), mostly due to never seeing a brave blade despite many active weeks in Nyzul.

Edited, Feb 16th 2010 7:53pm by Dracoth
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#3 Feb 16 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Dracoth. I edited my post to include food options so other readers can see that... sorry I left that out. I'll parse your post more closely... for now, it looks like the 15wsACC 4str 4dex Galea might be my best bet provided I'm using ACC food.
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#4 Feb 25 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15943
Can also consider that for the waist slot.
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#5 Feb 25 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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well given that vorpal's a multi-hit i tend to gear for it the same way i'd gear for guillotine on my DRK with a focus on accuracy and attack, with a small emphasis on DEX since a lot of it's dmg seems to come from when it crits, similar to blade jin. I think i'm doing something right as i can occasionally crank out 800+ (http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7313/pol2009052820442050.jpg) while partying, and never below 400 usually. So far what you have seems to looks good.

i'm only 63 pld atm(mothballed it since last year,) but once i get higher i have quite a bit of different gear to play with for building a vorpal set. off the top of my head i'm thinking my set at 75 will look like this:

Main: Sword (it varies by situation)
Sub: Sentinel Shield (if i don't have to focus on tanking. it's a great "DD" shield)
Ammo: Tiphia Sting
Head: Aurum Armet
Body: Shadow Breastplate/Hauby
neck: Soil Gorget
Earrings: Hollow/Brutal
hands: hecatomb
Rings: Rajas and Iota/Blood
back: cerberus mantle
waist: potent belt/warwolf
legs: aurum cuisses (don't really have anything else atm for pld aside from homam)
feet: Aurum Sabatons/hecatomb leggings


Edited, Feb 25th 2010 4:02am by Aluus
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#6 Feb 25 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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It's far from ideal, but here's my Vorpal Set.
For you though here's what I would recommend changing these things:

Head: Champions Galea (Heca would be ideal)
Neck: Sea Gorget
Legs: Valor Breeches or Ares's
Ring: STR ring for high acc, acc ring for low acc situations.
Waist: Virtuoso Belt or Warwolf pending on situation.

I'd hate to repeat the whole "sh*t is situational" mantra, but generally speaking, when your in a merit-type situation or campaign or soloing or something to that effect stacking more STR will be to your advantage. If you're in an HNM, Gods, or most PvE situations you'll want to favor more acc to connect more hits.

You already knew this though I expect.

Edit: I'm a dumbass lolsalade

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 7:51pm by Dynas
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#7 Feb 25 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Paladin can't equip Anwig Salade. They're on the Champion's Galea armor piece, though you'd still be able to get the same augments on it as you could the Salade.
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#8 Feb 26 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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I knew that, I just wanted to see if you knew that :p
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#9 Sep 13 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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(Sorry for the necro bump)

How would go about figuring out how to adjust my Vorpal Blade setup for Abyssea exp? (Don't laugh; for some odd reason, people actually want my Paladin.)

On my TP set, I got about ~93% accuracy last time on Marinara Pizza +1 (Lv.80-84, targeting black mandy).

This is my current Vorpal Blade set and some options I have (in parenthesis):

main "Organics"
sub "Joyeuse" (Justice Sword when not too lazy to get Virtue Stones)
ranged <none> (Too lazy to mule over Lightning Bow +1)
ammo "Bibiki Seashell" (Don't have any DD ammo except Thew Bomblet--which PLDs can't use)

head "Optical Hat" (Askar Zucchetto)
neck "Peacock Charm" (Possibly can get a Soil Gorget)
L.ear "Brutal Earring" (Fowling Earring)
R.ear "Suppanomimi"

body "Hecatomb Harness" (Haubergeon +1)
hands "Hecatomb Mittens" (Tarasque Mitts +1...)
L.ring "Ecphoria Ring" (Yes, long overdue to be changed out.)
R.ring "Blood Ring"

back "Amemet Mantle +1" (Smilodon Mantle +1)
waist "Potent Belt" (Life Belt)
legs "Askar Dirs" (Valor Breeches)
feet "Perle Solerets" (Amir Boots, Rutter Sabatons, Aurum Sabatons)


My "DD" TP/WS sets has seen surprising frequency of uses recently; willing to toss in another 200k, maybe 300k worth of upgrade if the gear options I listed don't cut it.

By the way, I'm just as interested "how to figure out what's better" as in people's suggestions on what is better. Can someone take me through how to calculate the average Vorpal Blade damage? (Mithra, no STR merits; Marinara Pizza +1 when exp'ing in Abyssea.)

- Where do you get an estimate of the target's VIT and Def to calculate sSTR and pDIF?
- How do you calculate damage from a crit hit on WS? Is it different from the first hit to rest of the hits?
- How do you calculate the odds of a crit hit on WS? Is it different from the first hit to the rest of the hits?
- Is the extra hit from Dual Wield calculated from main's D value or the sub's D value? (I'd imagine it's from sub's, but figured it's safer to ask.)
- How does the Soil Gorget work? lol. What exactly does "add 0.097 to fTP" mean? Instead of multiplying by 1.00, it'd multiply by 1.097?

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 3:39pm by IfritnoItazura

Edited, Sep 15th 2010 12:30pm by IfritnoItazura
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#10 Sep 15 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
ammo "Bibiki Seashell" (Don't have any DD ammo except Thew Bomblet--which PLDs can't use)


Have you tried getting the "Smart Grenade?" Has a hidden attack +4 and a very easy quest.

Or even Tiphia Sting with att+2 and acc+2 would be better and its only like 20k now
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#11 Sep 15 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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First, your links don't seem to work right. Found the sets on FFXIAH by searching your name, though.

You have +55 acc (including dex and skill) in your TP set, and hitting 93% accuracy across a range of levels. Figure by 85 you should be at capped accuracy with about +45 accuracy.

You have +62 acc (including dex and skill) in your WS set. Therefore you're going overboard on accuracy here.

Would change:

Optical Hat to Perle Salade. -10 acc, +5 str, +7 attack. Leaves you at +52 acc.

Yes, a Soil Gorget would be best option for neck. (Yes, it's +0.1 to the multiplier on the first hit, so 1.1 for the first hit instead of 1.0, then 1.0 for the remaining hits. Overall gain is about 2%.)

Would use Rajas if you have or are planning to get it.

Body:
This is a bit complicated. Options are:
Hecatomb (12 str, 10 acc)
Hauby +1 (6 str, 12 att, 6 dex, 12 acc)
Perle (8 str, 8 att, 4 dex, 8 acc, 2% crit rate)


All of them provide at least 10 accuracy, and since you're still a bit on the high end for accuracy, that should be irrelevant for the choice. They also all provide a minimum of 6 str. Also going to extract out the att provided by the str. So it simplifies to:

Hecatomb (6 str)
Hauby +1 (9 att, 6 dex)
Perle (2 str, 5 att, 4 dex, 2% crit)


I don't know your race, so going to estimate based on hume. Am guessing a base dex of ~72, and 11 dex in other gear. Without a Rajas, there's a pretty good chance that you'll get +1% crit rate from the dex of the Hauby, but rather low for the Perle (unless the target has fairly high agility, in which case both get the +1%). With Rajas, both should give +1% crit rate from the dex on the body.

If your cRatio is between 1.0 and 1.25, a crit should be (roughly) between 2.0 and 2.25, giving between 80% and 100% increase in damage for the crit.

The generally assumed base crit rate for crit-based weaponskills is 10%. Fundamental base crit rate is 5%, and you should have 4% in merits, so you start with 19%. We'll assume the target is such that you have +1% from dex to begin with, so a starting value of 20%.

A 1% gain for Hauby would then be between 0.66% and 0.83% increase in damage.

A 2% gain for Perle would be between 1.33% and 1.67%; a 3% gain for Perle would be between 2.0% and 2.5%.


Base str is estimated at 83 (with merits) +43 in gear = 126. That should tend to put fStr at about +12. Organics caps at +13, so there's room for 1 more point of fStr. Base WSC is 31.

WSC for:
Hecatomb: 33
Hauby +1: 31
Perle: 32

Total base damage would then be:

Hecatomb: 94
Hauby +1: 91
Perle: 92-93


~However~~~ with +str enhancements from Abyssea, you get another +10 (minimum) str. That means you should be capped on fStr for all of them. Therefore the only difference is in WSC. So it's actually more like:

WSC for:
Hecatomb: 35
Hauby +1: 34
Perle: 34

Total base damage would then be:

Hecatomb: 96
Hauby +1: 95
Perle: 95


Likewise, +10 to dex makes it so that you're quite likely to get +1% crit rate for both Perle and Hauby (but won't get any additional from Rajas).

pDIF comes from cRatio, which is based on attack. A rough estimate of attack without outside buffs, but including food, is about 485. I'd estimate the increase in cRatio to be:

Hecatomb: 0
Hauby +1: +2.5%
Perle: +1.4%



Overall advantages relative to Hecatomb:

Hauby +1: -1.0% base damage, +0.75% crit, +2.5% pDIF
Perle: -1.0% base damage, +2.25% crit, +1.4% pDIF


So Perle and Hauby +1 should come out nearly identical, and I'd pick either over Hecatomb.

#12 Sep 15 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks a bunch, Kinematics; it'll take me a while to fully digest it all, but it looks good so far.

Kinematics wrote:
First, your links don't seem to work right.

Opps. Should be fixed now.

PLD DD (TP)
PLD DD (Vorpal Blade)

No Raja's Ring (no plans for it); Mithra, zero STR merit (full INT), full critical hit rate merits.

Kinematics wrote:
You have +55 acc (including dex and skill) in your TP set, and hitting 93% accuracy across a range of levels. Figure by 85 you should be at capped accuracy with about +45 accuracy.

Hmm. NQ Monsters in Abyssea apparently can increase in level on respawn if killed fast enough, so it's hard to say exactly how much accuracy is needed to hit cap--the faster you kill, the more accuracy you'll need, if I understand it correctly.

Still, point taken about having too much accuracy; I should have looked at that first.
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#13 Oct 03 2010 at 3:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I often ponder Swift vs Vorpal as /NIN. Its 4.5 hits vs 5.0 hits with swift having better WSC but vorpal can crit. From my personal experience Swift seems to be the more reliable of the two.
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