HNM Paladin ParsingFollow

For those who have decided to use Atonement, as a hate tool, not a DD tool. I've begun using my Pld for more End Game mobs, Khimaira, Dark Ixion, Sand Worm, Fafhogg, T4 ZNM's, Sea/Sky etc. I've been more drawn to the DD Pld style, using Atonement Spam as a main source of hate. I'm just curious, for those of you who have also found this playstyle to be effective, how many of you have parse results, not for total damage, but simply for Accuracy results, to ensure that you are connecting hits as often as possible, to maximize the amount of Atonements. Which food was used, how much +acc gear is needed, and what Hit percentages where you at. I'm just looking for some insight as to what goals to have in mind for maximizing the use of atonement as a hate tool. At what point can sushi be overcome by Pizza, and if meat could ever come into play.

While I understand 'DDPld' is a sore subject for some, I'd rather not have that discussion. I'm just looking for results, good and bad for those who have at least attempted it, on mobs that matter, not just tanking in Exp, or small missions.

Thanks.

I have definitely been pursuing this form of tanking since late last year. Recent parses against Omega put me at about 65-70% accuracy with sushi or pizza. The pizza in my experience yields far fewer hits for zero (which is functionally the same as a miss in terms of TP and enmity generation) and in my opinion is the far better option.

I am really enjoying this new school of tanking, and Atonement is a real beast of a weaponskill because it doesn't require a badass gearset to do its damage. You have the luxury of throwing on a full enmity gearset to weaponskill in, which makes Atonement's potency self-perpetuating. Enmity generates bigger Atonement generates higher enmity generates bigger Atonement, ad infinitum (with respect to the hard damage cap of 750, of course).

Even against Ultima (who takes half magic damage), Atonement setups far outperform any traditional method of tanking. The only times Atonement setups tend to fail are the following situations:

1) The NM is always immune to magic damage.
2) The NM has mean TP attacks, so you don't want to feed TP too fast. In this situation, though, you are probably more likely to want a smartly-geared Atonement Paladin to continue meleeing for TP and take other DDs off the NM temporarily.
3) Kited fights.
4) Whatever situation I didn't think of that may merit consideration that someone else will hopefully point out.

I would like to pose a question to anyone who does use this style of tanking: Haubergeon (+1) versus Homam Corazza; Which will squeeze out more damage? Will Haub's lack of hp and -20 evasion ever prove such a detriment that the defensive qualities of Homam would always edge out any advantage Haub has?

I used Homam for a while, but have recently been using Haubergeon (I will be investing in a +1 at some point) since my evasion rate seems unaffected (as I would suspect). The big losses are the minor accuracy gain, HP, and MP (I'm Galka) offered, but I think the loss is probably worth it even for the NQ Hauby.

I also used Homam Zucchetto for a bit for the accuracy over Walahra, but since I usually have both Haste and at least one March on top of 18% haste gear, I believe the extra 2% haste from the turban totally blows away the accuracy benefits of homam.

Here is what I currently wear for my Atonement TP build. Upgrades include Haubergeon +1, Simba Buckler, Fortitude Torque (PCC or Ancient), Lightning Bow +1, Toreador's Ring, Cuchulain's Mantle, and Velocious Belt.

Being only a PLD66 myself... why simba buckler?

Hauby+1 offers the same amount of acc as Homam does, which is 15. Only on 2handers is it more. The only thing Hauby has over Homam would be the 6str/15att which would lower the 0 rate.

~82% on Ultima, ~78% on Omega. (No Madrigal, Dorado Sushi)

I haven't parsed anything else, but I will now that I'm seeing more of an interest in actual data.

Good question. Rilly said:



Which while this is true, that's not reason enough alone to use a Simba Buckler over a Koenig Shield or a Terror Shield, just a small perk.

This shield is going to shine for two subjobs: NIN and RDM. I use a NIN sub on 95% of the things I do on PLD. When my shadows are up, it doesn't matter how often my shield blocks or how much damage it reduces because my shadows worry about hits I take. When multi-attacks, TP attacks, or spells strip my shadows before timers are ready, my primary concern is getting them back up. Even with all the Fast Cast available to a Paladin, Utsusemi: Ichi is a slow spell to cast.

My answer to this is using the smallest shield I can to get the highest natural block rate I can. As you can see in my previous post, I have the Gold Buckler as my current PLD/NIN shield of choice. This is because it is a size 1 shield, granting it the highest natural block rate. I have been using this shield since mid-summer and against such enemies as sky gods, sea gods, Limbus bosses, and KSNMs, I have grown accustomed to its reliability.

Swapping in a supplemental shield skill gear set, with Reprisal up more than half the time, I can far more reliably block incoming attacks (and TP attacks), so Shield Mastery does the work of making sure my Utsusemi: Ichi cast isn't interrupted.

I made this change about the time I realized that whenever my shadows are down (not every Paladin always has double bards, a fully enfeebled mob, and a phalanx of stunners at his disposal), my first thought is always "I must get my shadows back up," and never damage mitigation via shield block. In cases where shadows drop and my Ichi is interrupted, I am realistically looking at taking a second and third swing before I can get any shadows, whether Ichi or Ni, back up due to the post-casting compulsory wait time.

To further give fuel to the Simba Buckler fire, a quick glance over at wiki shows that the only PLD-equippable shields with more defense are the stage four and finished versions of the Aegis. Data in this thread indicate that shield defense is a static boost to the damage reduced on a shield block, closing the gap between a larger shield's damage reduction and the Simba Buckler (and this is also the main reason why /RDM or Phalanx II situations merit smaller shields with high defense as well).

The Koenig Shield, and other size 3 shields, came into vogue when PLD/WAR was still the big thing and testing indicated that between block rate and damage reduction, size 3 shields reliably reduced the most damage. At that time, most of us assumed that idling in +enmity gear helped maintain hate, long before our current model of enmity was theorized and thoroughly tested by Kaeko and Ashira of Odin (with the assistance of others). I encourage any 75 Paladin to pick up a smaller shield when using /NIN or /RDM and give it a try, but don't neglect your fast cast and shield skill gear!

icwatudidthar.

Also, if you just want a shield for the block rate, sipar has a ridiculously high block rate, though it barely lowers damage at all.

MKD Augmented with 3Haste, 10ACC, 5Attack/Fort Torque/Brutal/Suppa
Hauby+1/Homam/Rajas/Ulth
Cuch Mantle/Swift Belt/Homam/Homam

8 Sword merits

I swap to Parade Gorget/Ares's Cuirass when I feel that I need more Refresh.

Probably so, I do notice hitting for 0s on Ultima a lot more than I'd like.

Finally got another pld to come out with me, I dont like parsing and solo tanking, incase for some reason my pc shuts off >.>(its random like that).

Parsed Khim at 81.83% acc.

gear-
Haute
koenig shield
lam bow
Turban
Parade gorget
Brutal/ethereal
Hauby+1
Homam hands
Ulth/Rajas combo
Cuchu mantle
Swift
Homam pants
Homam feet
Food: Sushi
Only 3 sword merits on at this time.

This gives me 411.93 acc, and apparantly roughly the 81~82% acc on khim. I hit 207 times for 0 damage out of 807 landed hits.

I did about 20000~ish worth of damage in that fight tp/ws. Which is roughly a little more than 1/4 of the damage. The next time, ill test him with joytoy. I didnt this time as I only had 4 other ppl who had actual experience with khim, and the other 3 did not(AFAIK). Other damage there included atonement from other pld, x2 blm, 1 sch.

Any questions, let me know. Ill continue to do more whenever I can.

No cor, 1 brd x2 marches

You know, I've heard all about the Sipar's supposed unusually high block rate and incredibly low physical damage reduction, but I've never seen tests indicating this might actually be the case, nor have I seen it in action personally. If it is true, I'd certainly be interested in obtaining one, but I'm skeptical. Can anyone help me out with this, a Sipar owner perhaps?

I'd love to see a verified block rate as well. If wiki is true and it really IS 98%, I could see this being very useful while /nin. Granted, it does nothing to very little for damage mitigation, but that's why we have shadows. Imagine never having your casting interupted? Or being able to pile on haste for ichi instead of shield+ gear? Sounds like a winner to me.

I'm actually surprised that the PLD community didn't think of using the Sipar as "shadow insurance" sooner for tanking /NIN. I wish I had thought of it sooner, because I'm pretty sure that Sipar would go close to free lot. I think that the majority of the time as PLD/NIN we use our shield as a means of reducing interruptions, not so much for dmg negation. I just haven't thought about it like that until now. I can't count the number of times I've had Ni down and couldn't get Ichi back up due to interruptions.

I'm going to try and acquire a Sipar as soon as possible, because I'm sure it would be more useful than my Koenig on a number of HNMs. I agree that a size 3 shield will still be preferable for things that DA/TA or spam AOE moves a lot. I will probably get some funny looks from other PLDs, but I think we are on to something here.

The problem is that without actual verified data, your observations could be way off. I would bet that the low damage negation would make it extremely hard to go off of the chat log to determine when a block occurred, which would mean that "eyeballing" it could be difficult. Sometimes even watching the animations of shield blocking can be a little deceiving.

Does anyone else have any experience playing with the Sipar?