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#1 Nov 04 2009 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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As i skim through the threads here, i notice everyone talking about their Ares, or their Avalon breastplate, or [insert awesome rare/ex armor here]... And i can't help but feel totally gimped -.-

An ares body piece is very expensive, and hard to get, and a valor surcoat is hard to get unless your incredibly lucky like some Pld i know >_>;

Now i'm curious about what most average players wear, or can afford to get that gets the job done. And i guess i speak for the "everyman" (but then again, maybe i don't) when i say that the Ares body is almost an impossible dream to attain. =/ I work, I'm a college student, and I already do Dynamis, and Assault.

Doing salvage, which seems to be harder to find an LS for, and then saving up the what, 10mil for 1 piece of gear doesn't seem practical for me, so i use AH, and campaign gear mostly.

I don't tank HNMs, or Gods, although i might get to tank in Dynamis @ some point, I think valor would be more than enough for full timing ( I dont have it yet, still using Af body ><). But i almost have my Iron Ram Hauberk, so I will probably use that...always i guess, don't see a real downside to it actually. In fact, i thought myself one of the higher end AH paladins for awhile. My gear set is on my char info. here ~> http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?198690
got some Hp and mp merits, sword and shield merits too. Chivalry is far from capped >_>; but overall i think im doing well for myself. Got my Valor Coronet and Leggings for macros as well~


Curious what others think about Casual players and their gear sets, and how they can improve them.

Edited, Nov 4th 2009 7:28pm by Toukai
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#2 Nov 04 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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1 word: Haubergeon :p
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#3 Nov 04 2009 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Iron Ram Hauberk Nuevo Coselete and the Haubergeon.

I.R. and Haub should be easy for you to get, Nuevo Coselete may take a little more but isn't that hard.

If for some reason you dont think you can get an IR Hauberk or the Nuevo Coselete, Gallant+1 can provide an adequate piece, until you can get something better.

The best way for casual players to improve their set is one piece at a time. Find a piece you really want (Haub+1, or maybe a Merman Ring+1 for a MDT set) then work towards that piece.
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#4 Nov 04 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't stress on not having an Ares's Cuirass or anything, there's nothing gimp about using what's available to you to get the job done.

Not many of us dinged into Ares's and Valor and whatnot, and before those items dropped many of us tanked in gear similar to yours.

I used a Hauby and AF+1 for years, and a Hauby is still one of the best body pieces you can idle in on PLD.

The Iron Ram body is superior to the Valor body, with the exception of during Cover. (If you take a stray hit while covering your co-tank, you get a little MP back, that's the only benefit over IR)

The basics of PLD are the same, regardless of what gear you have available to you.

Lower your recasts on Flash, Ni, Ichi, and Reprisal. This is accomplished with Haste gear.

Maximize your Enmity for JAs and Cures, just wear as much Enmity as you can get.

Get as much ACC as you can for when you're just sitting there swinging your sword, the more TP you get, the more often you can either use Atonement, Chivalry, or even Spirits Within.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask, I'm not sure exactly what info you're looking for, but I assure you, I was an AH-only PLD for years and I remember everything I ever used for any situation.
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#5 Nov 04 2009 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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Well i have a Hauby, forgot to mention that. And i use the dusk hands and feet from my Drg's gear, and Walmart turban if i want my 10% haste...although i feel like i lose a bit too much Defense and shield skill w/ that. and, 10% haste on a sword...not sure if its worth it.

I guess i need to work on CoP for limbus >< Gallant+1 would be nice.
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#6 Nov 04 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Turban is the best thing you can use at 75. Even if you refuse to TP in it (which you should be, but that's beside the point), you want it for spells. Flash with it on - the haste beats out every enmity option with few exceptions (B. Mask and Hydra, possibly), so you'll want it for that.

Really, haste is the best stat you can get on PLD. Idle in Hauby, accuracy rings, and attack earrings (Assault, Fowling, Merman's are great until you can get the better ones). As far as the feet selection goes, the best thing you can do is keep the feet on for most spells. Flash is fast enough, you could put the dusk feet on for it, but you're right - unless you have shadows, you want Gallant Leggings on.

Others have already said it - work on getting one piece at a time. When I first started end game, I had my TP set and that was it. I didn't even have my Surcoat at the time. I slowly got the pieces I wanted.

A good solid defense build can be built around AF or IR. They're solid pieces and are easy enough to obtain.

Elitism is an interesting thing. Forums should outline what's best and what's absolutely horrid. Sometimes, though, we forget to mention what's passable. Everyone has gear to improve on. So don't think you're "teh lolist PLD evar" just because you're not where others are. You'll get there with dedication.
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#7 Nov 04 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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really should go to 11-15% haste, but anyway. You dont need all those rarer body peices to get the job done well. You keep oing dynamis and youll get your af2 body.

But Iron Ram body is nice. So is Adaman cuirass. Most HNM LS's will sell you an Mbody for 1-2 mill. There is also the mini expansion body.

So you have many options out there. all are just as good as the other for most situations. The most important part is being able to explain why you chose to go with one body over another, for the situation that you are in.
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#8 Nov 05 2009 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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Toukai wrote:
and, 10% haste on a sword...not sure if its worth it.
x% haste is worth exactly the same DoT increase for sword as it is for dagger, great axe, katana, h2h, etc. Delay has no bearing on how potent haste is.
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#9 Nov 05 2009 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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but is 10% worth the Enmity, Vit, Shield skill, def lost fighting mobs that die relatively quickly? Sounds like i'd just take more damage and end up curing or having mages waste extra mp. Although prolly some proof somewhere to prove me wrong lol.

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#10 Nov 05 2009 at 3:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Toukai wrote:
but is 10% worth the Enmity, Vit, Shield skill, def lost fighting mobs that die relatively quickly? Sounds like i'd just take more damage and end up curing or having mages waste extra mp. Although prolly some proof somewhere to prove me wrong lol.

10% haste will generate more enmity than the enmity you have in those slots. If the mobs are dying relatively quickly then vit/def becomes even less valuable then the already are ;) Shield skill depends on what you are subbing and doing on your pld. I take it just exp/campaign? in exp pts go /nin. In campaign sub w/e you think gets the job done. I like /rdm or /nin.

As far as what I wear, I wear Hauby+1 on my pld. That's even with Avalon body in my possession.
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#11 Nov 05 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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When I started endgame tanking on pld all I had was af and adaman. Then went to AF+1, about that time is when /nin and atonement came to pass. Luckily I had already obtained hauby+1 for sam and nin. Shortly after I upgraded my af body valor finally came into my hands, and I said wtf, my af+1 is better!?!? Then nuevo body came out for its macro value and now IR body.

What Im saying is an echo or conformation of what other have said before. With intelligent macros and attention to whats going on u can tank anything in the game from a bunny in west ron to tiamat or fafnir with bottom dollar basic "sh*te" gear and still tank it well. The color/stats of your armor just help.

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 7:41am by bizarrobahamut
#12 Nov 05 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Toukai wrote:
but is 10% worth the Enmity, Vit, Shield skill, def lost fighting mobs that die relatively quickly? Sounds like i'd just take more damage and end up curing or having mages waste extra mp. Although prolly some proof somewhere to prove me wrong lol.



What kinda mobs are you talking about?

Limbus and Dynamis mobs, your base Defense with normal gear is enough that stacking tons of Defense and VIT won't reduce your damage taken by much, but piling on Haste and ACC will help you keep hate and contribute some damage to the fight.

If you're talking about things like Gods, Jailers, HNMs, then you'll probably be /NIN, and should macro in Shield Skill and - Physical Damage Taken gear (Whatever you can get, HP everywhere else) to reduce the damage you take when your shadows are down, then swap right back to a better Idle set (Haste, ACC, etc) when you get your shadows back up.

PLD is a pretty macro-intensive job, to play to it's capacity, regardless of what gear you've acquired.

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#13 Nov 05 2009 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Toukai wrote:
but is 10% worth the Enmity, Vit, Shield skill, def lost fighting mobs that die relatively quickly? Sounds like i'd just take more damage and end up curing or having mages waste extra mp. Although prolly some proof somewhere to prove me wrong lol.



Yes, there is proof of that all over this board. Did you bother looking at NCCoda's gear guide, Dracoth/Illusitaru's parses, hitoseijuro/ScarShiva/Asdrabael/the-aforementioned-people/others explanations of why stacking DEF and VIT is ineffective vs. other options?
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#14 Nov 05 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't put to much thought and stressing over those hard-to-get items. I finally came to except the fact that I am casual gamer and those hard-to-get items are more for the hardcore gamers, which is fine. I am always trying to improve my gear, but one piece at a time as stated.

I have not tanked anything in Sky, no Sea access yet, never participated in Dynamis or Nyzul Isle, only a few Assaults and haven't even given a thought to Salvage or Einherjar (lol at those). But, I have picked the few endgame things I do want and that I will get the most out of for the time envolved and works with my schedule as a casual player i.e. Sea, Nyzul and Assault(only for some pieces so very limited)

So again, just find the stuff you can do and that works with your schedule and work hard at those. Once you get over that hill, then move on to the other harder (time sink) stuff if you want, but not necessary.

Goodluck.

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I don't have a profile of my Pld here anymore but 90% of my tank/dd/haste gear is from the AH and am very pride of it. Not jaw dropping but it shows I am making an effort.

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 1:53pm by Stucco
#15 Nov 05 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm a "casual" PLD like the OP, the difference is I've been one for 5+ years. I really only play with my 6 man static. Don't do sky, HNM and the like. Fooled around with Einherjar, Dyna and Limbus but decided I didn't have enough time.

The most valuable things you can do on a casual player's schedule:
1) Build a haste set up so you can /nin tank well (dusk hands/feet, walmart turban, askar, swift belt are quite accessable for a casual player). Although, I gather from your profile you tank most stuff /rdm? Still I would macro in as much haste as possible for your flashes and such.
2) If you don't have it yet, do Nyzul isle so you can get Atonement (plus, Askar gear is ALL situationally useful for you since Homam is currently out of your reach).

I did Nyzul with a static, but you can do it through shouting for groups. The nice thing for a casual player is it takes 30 mins to 2hr per night (depending on how many floors you do per night).

Don't worry about Ares. I don't know anyone with it. People on forums are a biiiit out of touch sometimes. :p
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#16 Nov 05 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
I'm a "casual" PLD like the OP, the difference is I've been one for 5+ years. I really only play with my 6 man static. Don't do sky, HNM and the like. Fooled around with Einherjar, Dyna and Limbus but decided I didn't have enough time.


To the OP: Limbus takes less time per run than Nyzul, by far, and it's easier. Might take longer to get Homam too, but it is undoubtedly a "casual" event vs. almost any other endgame stuff. In large part, and this is strange to me, the "casual" players are separated from the "hardcore" players in this game based on willingness to play with others. I play maybe 12-16 hours a week at this point, but I do group-based activities, so keep that in mind before you "forget about" things like WLegs and Homam... it's all about how you want to spend your time playing. I enjoy doing sky/limbus with small groups of friends and the rewards are good, so that's what I do.
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#17 Nov 05 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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Soopafeen wrote:
In large part, and this is strange to me, the "casual" players are separated from the "hardcore" players in this game based on willingness to play with others.


I don't think this is entirely accurate, imho. I think the key difference between casual gamers and hard core gamers of FFXI is the fact a casual player in an endgame LS doing frequent events would be passed quickly in points with their limited play time, therefore, limiting them greatly on what they can lot for but still "asked" to attend. It is more of a convenience issue between casual and hardcore gamers then anything else.

As a casual player myself, I have been tempted multiple times to join a shout/pick up group for Dynamis if I see one but being it would be hard for me to dedicate 3 hours solid to the event would be difficult being I might have to leave for some reason. Yes, I could leave at any time being it was a pickup event but it would **** others off, not get me invited back, and I would miss out on drops after I leave. I have no problem working/playing with others, it is just a "is it convenient for me to participate while at the same time not hurting others" scenario.

OP needs to think about what things he/she wants to have, not think about what he/she thinks they have to have, and go get them. If he/she wants an Ares body or X item then they should apply themselves and get it but not because one feels they have to have it to please an endgame LS or something.
#18 Nov 05 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting, TP sets, ws sets, enmity sets. I'll have to get more storage space lol.

I don't use pld in merit parties, i'd go drg if anything else. And i'm working on CoP, but having a hard time getting those done. Not many Ppl want to do them, or have time conflicts making it a lot harder to get done. But with that said i would love to try Limbus, i hear its fun and not too time consuming.

I don't think even if i wanted to get Ares I could, I've never had more than 1.2mil gil >_> &That was when the economy was a bit better.Its pretty difficult run farming, and Crafting. gettin the money for Ares ingredients seems a bit impossible to me =/

i'll consider everyone's comments though, very helpful so far. Thanks btw~
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#19 Nov 05 2009 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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There seems to be a fairly prevalent bias from some posters, directed at others who do a lot of Endgame, and I don't understand why.

Not all of us endgame players are greedy gear whores, some of us just actually enjoy doing endgame.
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#20 Nov 05 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Toukai wrote:
I don't think even if i wanted to get Ares I could, I've never had more than 1.2mil gil


I'm not saying go get Ares's, because it's a huge time sink, but I never ever thought I'd have it either. I managed to scrape up the money to get it by spamming duo ENMs, mining in Mount Z, and doing ANNMs and KS runs with 4-5 people. We just split the money from the drops, and eventually I had enough.

Trust me, nobody was more shocked than I was when I finished it.
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#21 Nov 05 2009 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Stucco wrote:
Soopafeen wrote:
In large part, and this is strange to me, the "casual" players are separated from the "hardcore" players in this game based on willingness to play with others.


I don't think this is entirely accurate, imho. I think the key difference between casual gamers and hard core gamers of FFXI is the fact a casual player in an endgame LS doing frequent events would be passed quickly in points with their limited play time, therefore, limiting them greatly on what they can lot for but still "asked" to attend. It is more of a convenience issue between casual and hardcore gamers then anything else.

As a casual player myself, I have been tempted multiple times to join a shout/pick up group for Dynamis if I see one but being it would be hard for me to dedicate 3 hours solid to the event would be difficult being I might have to leave for some reason. Yes, I could leave at any time being it was a pickup event but it would **** others off, not get me invited back, and I would miss out on drops after I leave. I have no problem working/playing with others, it is just a "is it convenient for me to participate while at the same time not hurting others" scenario.


But isn't this a bit misleading? Your example is Dynamis. A Dynamis run, from gathering to finish, is typically 4 hours. Even if a Limbus LS drags *** in gathering, it takes, start to finish, 1.5 hours (less if doing bosses). And coincidentally, Homam/Beastcoin items are far more useful for PLD than nearly anything that drops in Dynamis. Nyzul can even take longer than Limbus depending on various factors, and to my mind is certainly more difficult (not to say it's rocket sciene). Salvage also doesn't take that much time per week.

What I'm saying is, setting aside Dyna/HNMs, you can get a ton done in "endgame" scenarios without investing millions of hours per week... it might just take you a bit longer. And even then, with some events (Limbus) we're talking 3 hours a week.
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#22 Nov 05 2009 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Let's say a PLD just dinged 75; it's his first 75 job. He has not got a ton of gil, but he has alternated between leveling and making gil on the way up so that he isn't dirt poor. He hasn't finished CoP, and has Sky access but never actually did anything there. He cuts costs everywhere he can, but if a piece is critical, he farms until he can afford it.

Here is all the advice I can think to give him, in both gear and focus.

TP Set
Total Cost: 870k
input /equip back "Amemet Mantle";
input /equip main "Macuahuitl +1";
input /equip sub "Koenig Shield";
input /equip ranged "Lamian Kaman";
input /equip head "Walahra Turban";
input /equip neck "Parade Gorget";
input /equip ear1 "Coral Earring";
input /equip ear2 "Fowling Earring";
input /equip body "Haubergeon";
input /equip hands "Dusk Gloves";
input /equip ring1 "Woodsman Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Woodsman Ring";
input /equip legs "Iron Ram Hose";
input /equip feet "Gallant Leggings";
input /equip waist "Life Belt";

MDEF/MDT Set
Total Cost: 230k
input /equip main "Iron Ram Lance";
input /equip waist "Warwolf Belt";
input /equip ring1 "Coral Ring";
input /equip ranged "Lamian Kaman";
input /equip sub "Raptor Strap +1";
input /equip head "Iron Ram Sallet";
input /equip neck "Parade Gorget";
input /equip ear1 "Coral Earring";
input /equip ear2 "Coral Earring";
input /equip body "Iron Ram Hauberk";
input /equip hands "I.R. Dastanas";
input /equip legs "Iron Ram Hose";
input /equip back "Lamia Mantle +1";
input /equip feet "Iron Ram Greaves";
input /equip ring2 "Coral Ring";

Other stuff:
Total Cost: 350k
Dark Staff for resting = 10k
Mermaid Ring for enmity actions = 90k
Hercules's Ring for enmity actions = 45k
Harmonia's Torque for enmity actions = 5k
Hospitaler Earring for cures = 40k
Quick Belt for shadows = 60k
Shield Torque for shadows = 100k

Total Price: 1.45m

Everywhere something isn't HQ, check to see what the cost/benefit of making it HQ would be. For example, HQ earrings in the MDEF set would run 300k and would only give 1% more bonus for something you use rarely. HQ Amemet mantle would run 250K and would give 1STR 5ATK for something you use constantly. Mantle is a higher priority item. HQ Dark Staff = no point for PLD. (Etc..) Also, try to use Rare/EX upgrades to replace things that cost money so you can take that gil and reinvest it into your PLD as you go along.

Getting Divine Might done so you can get Suppanomimi would be important, and it's also one step closer toward Ethereal Earring. Thus, you'd also be working on getting CoP done. Suppa can replace Fowling if you need the gil, but it's better to replace Coral if you can afford it. Save Coral for MDT/MDB set, regardless.

As soon as you are far enough along in CoP, you'd want to make Swift Belt a high priority - this replaces Life Belt and Quick Belt, getting you money back and upgrading two slots with one item. Finishing CoP is one step toward Ethereal Earring as well as Rajas Ring.

To further the value of CoP, once you get far enough along you will have Sea access. Immediately seek out a group to do Limbus with so that you that you can work toward Homam gear. Homam head is debatable, body is optional, the rest is mandatory.

Save coins from Limbus to purchase a Boxer's Mantle, which should be used in a macro when you put up shadows, and for cures with shadows down. Also save for a Loquacious Earring, which should be macro'd anytime you cast a spell. Note: Going to AF+1 boots is an upgrade you can get from Limbus, but you might consider skipping it because eventually you can obsolete them for free. Balancing expenses is key to helping your PLD as fast as you can, and AF+1 costs both coins and gil.

Get a Nyzul Isle static going. This lets you work toward Askar Hands - these are faster to get than Homam normally, and will hold you over until you can get Homam. Once you have Askar Hands, sell your Dusk and use the money to upgrade something else. If you happen to get Askar Boots and Legs, they are upgrades over AF boots and Iron Ram legs, repsectively. Use them, but don't waste time focusing on them. Once you have Askar Hands, push for Floor 100, getting the PLD weapon, and learning Atonement. Askar head can be an option to use over Turban, but remember you are aiming for 14 to 15% haste for your shadow timers (assuming March/March/Haste spell). Don't drop haste if you haven't gotten enough Homam to support it.

Get involved with ZNM's. The key item you are looking for is Aurum Boots, which you will use until Homam, and Blood Ring which will let you sell a Woodsman's. If you happen to get Aurum pants, they are a step up from both Askar and Iron Ram, but don't waste time on them because you can get better with this new Shantotto expansion. Also, if you get an Organics, it's a major step up from your current weapon, so either sell your Mac+1 and use Organics, or see if selling the ZNM sword would let you do more over-all upgrades instead (remember: get the most bang for your buck). Ob is a good tier 1 monster to try to kill also, because he takes very little Zeni to pop, and he drops items you can sell for good gil.

After this Shantotto expansion somes out, finish it and get Augments of: 7ACC, 3%Haste on your legs. In fact, if it weren't for the HP/MP/Fast Cast on Homam and us being PLD, we'd have no need of Homam at all. If you can get the new pants, don't waste time with Aurum legs or Askar legs, and you can put Homam legs on the back burner, focusing your efforts on the bigger upgrades of Feet and Hands. Once you do get Homam Legs, you can throw these away and request them to get Movement Speed +8% and Damage Reduction -4% for kiting (until you can get Crimson).

Work with your Sky group toward getting Crimson Legs from Kirin. If you can get these + Homam legs, then your Shantotto legs can become anything you might think would be helpful; by that time you will know enough to decide what to do with them. Also, Koenig armor from sky can be nice for PLD/dnc macros in campaign, but it's not important for PLD/nin, so don't get it unless it's free. You are in sky for Crimson legs; don't lose sight of that goal.

If you haven't gotten a Jelly Ring yet, camp that guy and get some help on him once he's up. Macro this in for putting up shadows.

Try to get a Patronus's Ring with campaign points, but do it after you finish your Iron Ram set. Macro it in along side Jelly for putting up shadows.

Snag the pop items for a Bomb Queen Ring when you can, so that if you ever hear of a group forming for her, you are ready to go. If you happen to get this item, store it away for future use in a "Cure Cheat" macro. Don't make excuses to use it just because it's cool.

Try to camp the Resentment Cape during down time. Macro it in for enmity producing actions (Flash/Bash/etc). When the latent is active, it's better than Lamia Mantle+1 for reducing damage from magic, so you might put it in your MDT/MDB macros if you know it will be "on" (such as during Proto-Ultima).

Getting ToD on Charybdis so that you can ask for help with Joyeuse would be extremely useful. If you happened to have gotten an Organics during your ZNM time, sell that off and use the gil to upgrade anything you haven't been able to afford yet.

Get involved with Dynamis. The key PLD relic items you are looking for are Boots, Body, Head, Back. Boots you macro in for +10% effect on Sentinel. Head you macro in for 15 extra seconds on Rampart. Body you macro in for Cover alongside your AF head, to turn damage taken into MP. Back replaces Resentment Cape as your go-to enmity piece. If your shell does Dynamis Lord, his Cape and Ring are amazing also, but if you only have time to get the PLD specific stuff from Dynanmis, that's good enough. Boots/Body > Cape > Head is how I rate the items in usefulness, but Head > Boots > Body > Cape is typically how the items end up being available.

Consider doing Field's of Valor and building up tabs. Items such as Palmerin's Shield can go from trash to amazing if you get lucky on an upgrade. Should that happen to you, that's money in your pocket when you sell Koenig Shield, for example.

You could save up for Haub+1 on your body, but consider that Homam body is a very reasonable alternative so don't overlook other uses for gil. I've lived through a number of attacks with under 28HP remaining to disregard the +HP on Homam.

Normal Assaults are good once you are done with Nyzul Isle. Do those and rank up when you can, but Nyzul drops are a higher priority. The main reason to do these is that later on you will be rewarded. That said, in the short term doing Assaults will take tags away from your Nyzul Isle goals. Skip them, but don't forget to come back to these later.

Salvage has Ares's body. It's amazing, but it's a long-term goal for wealthier people. Don't waste time on this right now.

Don't even worry about the HNM scene. You're not ready yet, and there honestly isn't anything there which is mission-critical for PLD success (just a few toys like Hauteclair).

You should have /nin sub done. Finish /rdm. Some fights require it. Finish /dnc. Campaign and many low-man or solo activities are immensely helped by it.

I think this covers all the majority of advice that I have for a new PLD who really cares about his job, and has time to play.

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 8:13pm by NatePrawdzik
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#23 Nov 05 2009 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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soopafeen wrote:
SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
I'm a "casual" PLD like the OP, the difference is I've been one for 5+ years. I really only play with my 6 man static. Don't do sky, HNM and the like. Fooled around with Einherjar, Dyna and Limbus but decided I didn't have enough time.


To the OP: Limbus takes less time per run than Nyzul, by far, and it's easier. Might take longer to get Homam too, but it is undoubtedly a "casual" event vs. almost any other endgame stuff.


What?

Nyzul Isle: 30 minutes per run. You don't have to use all 4 tags at once.
Not to mention you probably already have the prereqs for this.

Limbus: 100+ Hours to complete CoP, then each time you want to do it:
20 minutes for everyone to show up (this is if they are unusually fast).
20 minutes to walk through sea.
30 minutes to 1 hour to run Limbus.

Plus, Limbus costs 10k per run and Nyzul is free.

Anyway by all means complete CoP - but Nyzul is a great activity for those without tons of time.

edit: Also why on earth are you voting against Nyzul isle anyway? Atonement uber alles.

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 12:01am by SynthiaOfLeviathan
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#24 Nov 05 2009 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
What? Nyzul Isle: 30 minutes per run. You don't have to use all 4 tags at once.
Not to mention you probably already have the prereqs for this.


So, forming a group and having them all show up takes 0 minutes?

Quote:

Limbus: 100+ Hours to complete CoP, then each time you want to do it:
20 minutes for everyone to show up (this is if they are unusually fast).
20 minutes to walk through sea.
30 minutes to 1 hour to run Limbus.

Plus, Limbus costs 10k per run and Nyzul is free.


COP, to me, was fun, and it's also something you can do with a single party start to finish. Admittedly, I didn't include that in Limbus time, since I was dealing with the event itself.

Yes, Limbus can take 20 minutes to gather, but so can a Nyzul static -- and yet shouting for Nyzul floors certainly takes longer (try starting a shout for Floor 26 by yourself). So, I take your point but... 20 minutes to walk through Sea? Really? Maybe if you're walking instead of running.

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 11:57pm by soopafeen
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#25 Nov 05 2009 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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Limbus only costs 10k now? NPC is ripping me off!

I spend less time in/on Limbus weekly (Twice a week) then I do on/in Nyzule Isle (Once a week, 5 tags.) If I used all 7 Assault tags for Nyzule it would be even more time. I save the other 2 tags for Assault Points for Salvage though.

Limbus Coins easily pay back for the run + Extra. 7 Coins from last nights NE Apolyon, sell 2 for 8k to pay for the run and have 5 let over to put towards AF+1, Boxer/LoQ or an extra 40k profit.
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#26 Nov 06 2009 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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The only difference between nyzul and limbus is 5-10 Ancient beastcoins is much better than some level 7 leather trousers. Thats about all you will get from nyzul.

I say my chances of me getting a drop in nyzul is about 2%, if that.

Time to gather for any event is based on the players. Static Nyzul vx Static Limbus is the same. Gather and go.

Little dis-advantage for limbus is if another group is inside.
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#27 Nov 06 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nyzul Isle has a few good pieces for PLD until they are replaced later on with Homam. Its worth doing for sure, especially since you need to do it for Atonement. Hands and Legs are especially good. Boots are a nifty macro piece. You mentioned you have DRG, so you'll want Askar body and head too.

Luckily Limbus takes very little time and gives PLD some of the best R/E they can get. Pants, Hands, Feet are amazing for both PLD and your DRG. Getting CoP done is another story though...

Most of the time PLD is /nin. Something you have to keep in mind is that DEF, VIT, Shield Skill and so on do nothing for you when shadows are up. Enmity doesn't do anything when you are getting hit, -DMG, DEF and VIT do nothing when you are swinging your sword except help you hit for more 0s. Less TP for Chivalry and Atonement (or opening light for a DD or whatever...). The difference isn't just a few % on a parser either, you will actually see your improved performance when you begin to macro your gear with that in mind.


As far as 'the people's Paladin'.. I don't have Ares's body, no Terror Shield, no Homam (I have horrible luck with limbus shells >.<). I don't even have a few easy bits like BQ ring or Cerberus Mantle. With AH gear and easy to get R/E I cap timers in a tank pt anyway. I am capable of and have tanked everything outside of T4 ZNMs, PW & AV without any 'hardcore' R/E. I could likely do the T4s, I'm just not in a ZNM shell. All the better stuff will make my life easier and would have saved me from a few deaths, but that doesn't make me incapable of performing in a tank PT in any situation a PLD would be tanking.


Edited, Nov 6th 2009 1:43pm by Yashnaheen
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#28 Nov 06 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Yashnaheen wrote:
As far as 'the people's Paladin'.. I don't have Ares's body, no Terror Shield, no Homam (I have horrible luck with limbus shells >.<). I don't even have a few easy bits like BQ ring or Cerberus Mantle. With AH gear and easy to get R/E I cap timers in a tank pt anyway. I am capable of and have tanked everything outside of T4 ZNMs, PW & AV without any 'hardcore' R/E. I could likely do the T4s, I'm just not in a ZNM shell. All the better stuff will make my life easier and would have saved me from a few deaths, but that doesn't make me incapable of performing in a tank PT in any situation a PLD would be tanking


This... I am in the same position and really feel like I can hold my own on anything I've tanked. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to upgrade (for fun, bit better performance, etc.), but you shouldn't feel like you can't do anything without top of the line gear. And anyway, the leaps do tend to grow shorter.
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#29 Nov 06 2009 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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What you have to learn about events in this game is that you shouldn't do a lot of events at once if your RL doesn't permit.

I just dinged pld 75 not so long ago because one of my ls main tank left the game.

About 1.5 years ago, our linkshell was full of casual players with some having horrible gear. We could barely beat Proto-Omega and couldn't even make Ultima look our ways.

We "slowly" improved our gear and with times things turned around. Now, we do what other linkshells have been saying they do all the time. We farm pods and have been able to beat Ultima all the time (although there are many deaths but that's normal).

I wouldn't say Dynamis is worht doing for paladin if all you are going after is the relic pld gear. The improvement you'd get from that is minor to the point that you could do better by just walking to the AH.

Start with one event at a time because you will be able to finish a lot faster than trying to do too many at once. Plus it's less stressful.

Let's say you could focus all your time on Nyzul, then you will have improved your gear. After that focus on limbus, by this time you will have your time back from nyzul and not be spending more time than you were before. Don't try to do both nyzul and salvage at the same time. Sometimes it doesn't work.

I am a casual player because I only allow 2 nights out of my week to be devoted to improving my character. At one point I tried many events. With spending too much time playing, I ended up gaining weight and having less of a social life. It works for some and for others it doesn't.

Taking things slowly, I have been able to complete all expansions and mini expansions, Nyzul Isle, Full Homam, and some other minor stuff like like gear from NMs, ENMs, BCNMs.

P.S. someone pointed out that gil isn't hard to come by. Invest one day of your week to always doing bcnms, ENMs, ISNMs, ANNMs and you will see how fast it adds up.
#30 Nov 06 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Far as body piece, IMO, Haubergeon n' IR are perfectly fine. A number of other things can work well enough.

I think the most beneficial activity for a PLD right now, past Nyzul to get Atonement of course, is Limbus.
You can do Omega-only Limbus with a relatively small group and not a lot of time commitment. With, say, ~10 people you'd just split and farm 2-3 zones at a time for chips. Omega himself is easily done with that many.

Along the way, selling coins even tends to bring a small profit. As you're guaranteed -something- from boss kills there (two slots, body occupies a third loot slot if it drops), it's got a very good effort/reward ratio.

Quote:
Doing salvage, which seems to be harder to find an LS for, and then saving up the what, 10mil for 1 piece of gear doesn't seem practical for me, so i use AH, and campaign gear mostly.


The reason it may be hard to find a Salvage "LS" is because most Salvage groups only consist of 6-9 people. The more people you bring, the more you split up cells...and really, you barely need more than a solid party for most stuff there.

In both cases you may be able to put together groups just asking in your shell or friends list. Honestly, they're both easier than given credit for. Salvage is just stingy beyond all reason, though you can get lucky.


The bigger thing than having all the shiniest shinies is using what you have, or have access to, properly. It doesn't take an event to set up cure cheats or macro the appropriate gear around. A good deal of tanking is support anyway. The nicest stuff isn't going to make up for lacking buffs and prompt status removal and all.
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#31 Nov 06 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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well, then It seems the general consensus is my gear is adequate, if not quite good then. The anxiety to upgrade my pld more has dwindled thankfully, i'll take it at my own pace now. Although i just got my IR hauberk, and it is a **** beast ><
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#32 Nov 06 2009 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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Toukai wrote:
well, then It seems the general consensus is my gear is adequate, if not quite good then.


That's the point. :)

Toukai wrote:
The anxiety to upgrade my pld more has dwindled thankfully, i'll take it at my own pace now.


Always the best way to play any game.

Toukai wrote:
Although i just got my IR hauberk, and it is a **** beast ><


And you're upgrading your PLD already.

If the point hasn't been driven home by now - great gear does not a good PLD make. The PLD himself does. The gear just aids him in his quest to better himself.
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#33 Nov 06 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Dark Staff for resting = 10k
Mermaid Ring for enmity actions = 90k
Hercules's Ring for enmity actions = 45k
Harmonia's Torque for enmity actions = 5k
Hospitaler Earring for cures = 40k
Quick Belt for shadows = 60k
Shield Torque for shadows = 100k


Outparsing an AH Warrior in an EXP party = priceless

There's some things gil can't buy, but for everything else there's BroSale.com

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#34 Nov 06 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Outparsing an AH Warrior in an EXP party = priceless

There's some things gil can't buy, but for everything else there's BroSale.com


I want to put this in my Sig, I love it XD

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 11:51pm by Toukai
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#35 Nov 06 2009 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The only difference between nyzul and limbus is 5-10 Ancient beastcoins is much better than some level 7 leather trousers. Thats about all you will get from nyzul.

My Peacock Amulet and Empress Hairpin beg to differ.

Limbus is undoubtedly harder and more time-consuming than Nyzul, with better rewards. But, Nyzul stuff is still very solid. Askar gloves and hat are excellent, and the pants are respectable as well. Even the feet have uses. The body is some of the prettier town gear you can get, at least.

And Atonement alone justifies Nyzul.

And, all it takes is half-an-hour and five friends. ****, three friends is enough. Nyzul takes little time, isn't very hard if your group is willing to come prepared, and offers a couple of nice goodies, including the single most important damage/hate tool for a boss-tanking PLD. Seems pretty worthwhile to me.
#36 Nov 07 2009 at 5:12 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly, while rebuilding my character, i did nyzul for atonement. then i got the **** out of there and went to limbus. anything you get in limbus, gear wise, off the bosses is better than askar anyhow. I wouldnt waste your time playing too long in nyzul.

Limbus is better, and essentialy free . its actualy a profit once you have your boxers and loq. earring as well.
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#37 Nov 07 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
anything you get in limbus, gear wise, off the bosses is better than askar anyhow.

Well, two pieces of Homam are completely worthless to a PLD, so it's not as if it's universally awesome. Askar hat is the best DD hat for a PLD (beats Turban for 1h jobs any time you don't have three outside haste sources; beats Homam always), and Nyzul is worth it to many just for that. Askar feet would also be used for completely different things than Homam, so it's not even possible to compare. And even if you're doing Limbus regularly, if you don't actually have your Homam gloves yet, then Askar gloves are great. Full Askar is also excellent for cure-cheat macros. Of course, full Homam is great for that too, but it takes a lot longer to get, generally.

More importantly, though, it's possible to target Askar gear in a way that Homam can't be targeted. Almost anyone who has friends in the game will know several people who have full Nyzul access and more Nyzul gear than they know what to do with, and an afternoon spent doing Nyzul with such a person has good odds of getting the gear you want. Since you can target the gear so easily, and since often it's very good gear, why not try to get some? My team was actually losing drops to the void because we all had the armour just a few months after we started doing Nyzul four times once a week.
#38 Nov 07 2009 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
My team was actually losing drops to the void because we all had the armour just a few months after we started doing Nyzul four times once a week.


You're luckier than I am in Nyzul, then.

I did Nyzul as extensively as I could. I never reached floor 100. Everyone I dragged to 40 eventually moved on without me (this isn't a bitter thing - I had to take some extensive breaks due to RL and I'm glad they moved on) and only one of them came back to help later. Instead, they brought me along on their "let's get gear runs". Of the forty some odd bosses I fought, we saw Askar body and Denali feet. We tried every boss, and I got good at figuring out what I was capable of, but if I were on the run, it seemed like the boss would drop a random weapon (of a job NO ONE wanted) and nothing else. TH3, no TH3, it didn't matter.

In the end, it's just like everything else in this game. The random number generator is either with you or it's not. If I play again, I'm tempted to start sacrificing taru to the boss before fighting it to see if that will help in any way.
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#39 Nov 09 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Dracoth wrote:
Caesura wrote:
My team was actually losing drops to the void because we all had the armour just a few months after we started doing Nyzul four times once a week.


You're luckier than I am in Nyzul, then.

I did Nyzul as extensively as I could. I never reached floor 100. Everyone I dragged to 40 eventually moved on without me (this isn't a bitter thing - I had to take some extensive breaks due to RL and I'm glad they moved on) and only one of them came back to help later. Instead, they brought me along on their "let's get gear runs". Of the forty some odd bosses I fought, we saw Askar body and Denali feet. We tried every boss, and I got good at figuring out what I was capable of, but if I were on the run, it seemed like the boss would drop a random weapon (of a job NO ONE wanted) and nothing else. TH3, no TH3, it didn't matter.

In the end, it's just like everything else in this game. The random number generator is either with you or it's not. If I play again, I'm tempted to start sacrificing taru to the boss before fighting it to see if that will help in any way.


This is also a great example of different people either succeed in or enjoy different events to very different extents. I got 4 friends together and had a fun, challenging-but-not-too-stressful-to-organize climb within about 1.5 months using 3-4 tags per week, one night per week. In contrast, there is very little doubt in my mind that Dracoth has done everything else in this game better than I have and more extensively! So, the game can be strange... really depends largely on who you fall in with, how your schedule plays out, and what you enjoy doing (Cf. Relic vs. Mythic discussion, kinda).
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