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#1 Sep 11 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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So how are PLD's gearing in Dynamis these days? Is it still Old School (i.e., Enmity, Turtling) or do folks throw in more DD?

Thanks in advance!
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#2 Sep 11 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I didnt see anything in Dynamis worthwhile for Pld, so I have never gone. It mostly is just turtle tank stuff, but there are better and easier to obtain pieces now. I got Koenig head and hands from Sky. ACP body is great for PLD (with enmity and fast cast) AF1 feet are better than relic for the shield skill alone, and I just use the Adaman legs. If you want to DD PLD, then there is nothing from Dynamis. You are better off with some AH gear and throw in a few pieces from assault, nyzul, and a few WS pieces from sky. I really cant see the point in Dynamis for PLD unless you have crazy gil for an relic shield. But thats my opinion.
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#3 Sep 11 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I don't disagree with you in the slightest about it not being worthwhile for gear. However, I'm only one of two PLD's in the LS! So I go and lend a hand or no one goes.

I've done Dynamis before. It's been years though!

I've got SAM leveled too so I wouldn't mind a piece here or there for that.

Edited, Sep 11th 2009 2:57pm by StormwyndofShiva
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#4 Sep 11 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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Depends on which zone, and to a point which mobs.

Most of what PLDs tend to do in Dynamis is call mobs - hate rarely stays on them, but mobs also tend to die in seconds. If you have multiple PLDs, the non main callers may try to pull hate on slept mobs and/or statues and the like. A lot of it has to do with the shell/strategy in particular.

DD is fine for a lot of zones, though honestly I don't think it'd really change much unless you're going with a smaller group. Still, the mobs are low enough level that you really don't need to go overboard. Do want to macro in a lot of enmity though, as mages are usually building a fair amount of hate on mobs via Sleep/Aspir/etc.

For Xarc and the like, obviously, you'll be gearing differently. Again, it tends to vary - I've seen some that use PLD/NINs, others that blood tank. Suffice to say that if your LS falls into the latter category, you'll be turtling up there.

Quote:
Personally I didnt see anything in Dynamis worthwhile for Pld, so I have never gone.


Valor armor may not be the end-all anymore, but it's still decent, and enhances JAs, which other sets don't do. You don't fulltime Valor Leggings, but you macro them in for Sentinel, and so on.

Valor Cape is certainly a nice combo piece. Shadow items are also nice to have as well.

Hydra pieces if you do Tav are still high enmity pieces. Not as far ahead of easier to obtain items now, certainly, but still the best in some cases (body for example).

PLD has a good bit to gain from Dynamis still. It just has a lot of alternatives now as well. Still, no less out of it than most jobs, and more than a number of them.

Probably the one best event for PLD is Proto-Omega anyway. Askar gear is so-so in comparison, Assaults offer basically nothing outside of appraisals.
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#5 Sep 11 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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As far as actual gear from Dynamis, I'd second Dreakon's opinion that most of it is obsolete (The feet are pretty useful since Sentinel is arguably our best JA and they essentially add a Defending Ring onto it).

Since your question sounds more like you're already in a shell that happens to do Dynamis, I'd focus heavily on enmity. More accurately, focus on ways to generate enough spike hate to keep the mob on you for a minute while the DDs destroy it. Start by leveling either /RDM or /DRK, or both and play around to see which fits your shell best.

/RDM can work really well at keeping groups of mobs off your sleepers and other mages, while I've found /DRK to be pretty efficient (and more fun) if you're main assist. In that case you'll want to stack as much haste as you can get so your Flash and Stun timers are low, as well as Reprisal. Wear accuracy where you can't get haste so you'll have TP for Chivalry and Atonement, which can hit decent numbers after a few spells and/or JAs.

It may seem like you're making your mages work harder to cure you by not turtling up, but it saves everyone MP in the long run if mobs are smacking you instead of the surrounding DDs or sleepers.
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#6 Sep 11 2009 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I go PLD/RDM to Dynamis, except Xarc where I go PLD/NIN to hold NMs. All I do is keep slept mobs on me and not the sleepers, (In-game, I also call strategy and drops) so I wear Enmity gear everywhere except Ares's Cuirass and Parade Gorget (For the Refresh).

I don't use Haste gear for Blind, Sleep, Dispel because they're such low recasts anyway.

I have a MDB macro and a Shield Skill/PDT macro in case things wake up and aren't reslept immediately.

If I was going to call, I'd wear full DD gear, but I tend to call on WAR or NIN since they can do more damage.

As for PLD AF2, most pieces are useful as JA macros, that alone is worth it to me since my LS does Dynamis and I wouldn't expect them to come get me gear elsewhere while I didn't come help them get their AF2.

To clarify, I use:

Head: Rampart
Body: Cover
Hands: Shield Bash
Cape: Cure cheats and Enmity JAs, Flash, regular Cures
Legs: I used to use these for Ichi, until I got Homam, now I don't use them.
Feet: Sentinel (I don't have these, stupid things never drop)

Edit: I got a Hydra Haubert from Tavnazia. I use it for JAs, Cures, and capped-Haste Flash.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 12:58am by NCCoda
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#7 Sep 12 2009 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you everyone for taking a moment to reply and helpful input. It just convicts that I still need to level RDM. XD

This will be this LS's first attempt so we'll definitely be in starter cities for a while.

For /WAR, I probably won't gear much more differently than I normally do:

Hauteclaire
Iron Ram/Koenig
Lighting Bow +1 (I accidentally chucked my Smart Grenade ><)
O-hat/IR Sallet/Turban (Valor Coronet for Rampart)
Chivalrous/Shield
Suppa/Coral (Hospitaler, Insomnia)
Hauby/AF
IR hands/Dusk (Pallas's for non-Atone WSs)
Ulthalam's/Raja (Herc for macros)
High Breath/Amamet +1
Potent/Swift (Warwolf for macros)
Askar/IR Legs
AF Feet



Isiolia: Incidentally, I'm close to your neck of the woods.
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#8 Sep 12 2009 at 11:44 PM Rating: Default
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Go Samurai instead.
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#9 Sep 13 2009 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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OT- East Coast Paladins Represent! Hampton Roads VA here :)
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#10 Sep 14 2009 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:
OT- East Coast Paladins Represent! Hampton Roads VA here :)


Raleigh, NC here!
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#11 Sep 15 2009 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
OT- East Coast Paladins Represent! Hampton Roads VA here :)


Woot! :D We're all Mid-Atlantic to boot!

Edited, Sep 15th 2009 12:24pm by StormwyndofShiva
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#12 Sep 15 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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/WAR or /RDM.

I prefer /war...only cause I need excuses to wear my Koenig.

#13 Sep 15 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I usually go /WAR because it's too hard to convince 18+ other people (only a handfull I really know) that /RDM or /DRK might be worth a try.

My Gear for /WAR is Shield > Haste > DD > HP.
Change to Turtle for Xarc NM's.
If i'm on Slept Mobs duty it's Enimity/Haste.

Valor is good for Macro's, not essential, but worth having.
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#14 Sep 15 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Best way to "convince" people that another sub is better is to "accidentally" show up /RDM or /DRK and then do your job better than you could have otherwise. I did this a few times to convince the (majority) of the leadership of the LS I was in that PLD/NIN >>> PLD/WAR in sky. Was maintanking Byakko with /NIN and not only did I keep hate over the poor /WAR who was trying his best to get hate, I kept everyone alive in the alliance. After that, the whole strategy for the LS changed overnight. Sometimes people just have to see it to believe it.
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#15 Sep 16 2009 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
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The few times I went to Dyna as PLD, I went /war in DD gear. I was main assist, voked to get initial hate away from the sleeper. After that its just DDs going crazy, move on to the next mob around 10%.
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#16 Sep 16 2009 at 9:47 AM Rating: Default
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Gearing for Dynamis is all about what what you can do to complement your crew's dynamic. So bring whatever gear you think would be helpful in any situation.

Just remember that your primary role is: Meatshield.

#17 Sep 18 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Dracoth wrote:
Best way to "convince" people that another sub is better is to "accidentally" show up /RDM or /DRK and then do your job better than you could have otherwise. I did this a few times to convince the (majority) of the leadership of the LS I was in that PLD/NIN >>> PLD/WAR in sky. Was maintanking Byakko with /NIN and not only did I keep hate over the poor /WAR who was trying his best to get hate, I kept everyone alive in the alliance. After that, the whole strategy for the LS changed overnight. Sometimes people just have to see it to believe it.


Could not agree more. I did the exact same thing to my first Sky LS (Both of us main tanks did, just showed up /anon and PLD/NIN) and after the first round of Gods nobody ever asked us to /WAR again. After that we kinda just started showing up whatever sub we felt was best, and that was pretty much always /NIN or /RDM.

PLD/RDM or even PLD/DRK blows PLD/WAR out of the water for Dynamis (If you're doing crowd control). PLD/WAR and PLD/NIN just CAN'T keep a large wave of mobs under control without expending tons of MP with self-cures, which you just can't do often enough unless your Dynamis group is killing at a Snails pace and you have tons of Refresh. It's not efficient by any means, compared to being able to simply Cure1 a sleeper, spam Barspells (Or rotate spells like Bind/Blind/Dispel/Sleep/Flash/Stun), and keep any size of mobs on you without a problem.

For me it's not a personal preference, it's the math of the game mechanics combined with a desire to do the best at the job I'm given.
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#18 Sep 23 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone done a guide for PLD/RDM? Or did you just write one? :)

I personally have limited mage experience and would benefit from a little explanation about how it works.
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#19 Sep 23 2009 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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There's a general PLD/RDM guide in the sticky, although it's more aimed for solo. Couple this with Kanikan's enmity table, and you've got the grounds to figure out what the best thing you can do to generate hate is.

Basic idea of PLD/RDM is to get Phalanx up and spam spells that build massive hate. Bind/Blind/Dispel are really nice for this if you have a single target. Barspells work even better if you have hate on a bunch of mobs and want to keep them all. Just rotate the barspells after curing the sleeper, and you'll quickly surpass the sleeper in hate so they won't be mauled when the sleepers wake up.
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#20 Sep 23 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Stormwyndofshiva wrote:
Has anyone done a guide for PLD/RDM? Or did you just write one? :)

I personally have limited mage experience and would benefit from a little explanation about how it works.


Depends what you are going to be using it for. /rdm serves as 2 purposes imo, soloing things that dont hit too hard to need /nin and can get away with reprisal+phal(SS here and there)+shield, or for hate whoring. Basically you spam the **** out of your spells. Bio,sleep,poison,blind,dispel etc all have a good chunk of CE/VE on them with low mp cost and low recast timers.

You can use it to tank certain mobs and kite them aswell. It will shoot off a little slow at first, but once you get your hate spell cycle going it will be solid hate.

The fastest hate spiking sub for pld would be /drk. When it comes to solid hate, /rdm and /nin are the more reliable subs to have and ............at the end is /war meh.

Ill always hate /war for dyna. I can see why having voke is nice, but when the mob is dead before voke or flash are ever up, it makes that point less useful. It can still be situationally helpful ill give it that.....*grumbles*
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#21 Sep 23 2009 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Sounds like I need to lvl RDM after I get DNC to 37.
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#22 Sep 23 2009 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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Most PLD tend to use PLD/WAR in a turtle setup with emphasis on enmity. That is not to say that other subs wont work. They work quite quite well. /DRK and /RDM are great. But, most shells still want you to come /WAR. Your job remains the same regardless of sub, and your gearing will reflect that.

Main Tank Role:

Here you are incharge of focusing the melee to push through all the enemies you can. Honestly, for trash, youll only need enough enmity to produce more CE than Sleep on your Flash. This is because, no matter how muchenmity you have, a war or something is going to go RAWR RAMPAGE and tear it off you before the enemy is dead. Here you have two choices, try to get the enemy back, or move to claim the next enemy and the melee will follow your lead once that enemy is dead. Most times i prefer the latter as i believe that it keeps your melee swinging. if your melee are not swinging you better be heading to the next major pull or they are just dead weight.

For bosses, youll want to take the effort to hord the attention of the enemy, if you lose control, get it back asap.

Off Tank:

For trash your job is simple, protect your sleepers. On major pulls the enemies which arent being killed will be slept. Some will wake before they are being killed. This is where you come in. You need to build hate so that once they wake up, the trash attacks you instead of your sleepers. this is so that they can be slept again, easily by your back line with no fear of death.

On Bosses you and the main are rather equal in that youll both be dominating hate.

Knowing that youll be taking hits, and you are not necisarily there to kill an enemy. Your gear choices, in both off tank, and main tank shifts from a DD role to an enmity/turtle build.

Edited, Sep 24th 2009 1:47am by TheWillrikerofOdin
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#23 Sep 23 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't consider myself to be a PLD/RDM expert, but what info I can provide is what I do. This is all in regards to Dynamis (COP zones and Glacier, we don't do Cities and I'm /NIN or WAR for Tav or Xarc) or Einherjar (Tier 1 and 2 if I'm not on WAR, I'm /NIN for Tier 3). The same principles apply in any Crowd Control situation.

The idea: Have more Enmity accrued on every mob that the group has pulled than the sleepers, so that when they wake up they come after you and the sleepers never get hit.

The spells: There are two good ways to do this, although I prefer the second method.
1. When the group of mobs get to camp and is slept, start rotating Flash/Blind/Bind/Sleep/Dispel on every mob, using as much Enmity gear as you have. (Low recasts, hopefully fast killspeed, so max Haste for recasts isn't as needed as raw Enmity since you should only be able to cast a few spells per mob before they're called)

2. When the group of mobs gets to camp and is slept, Cure 1 the person who slept all of the mobs. Begin spamming Barspells on yourself, nonstop. (You'll develop a feel for how long you need to do this to surpass your sleepers Enmity) Again, max Enmity since they have low recasts and you have plenty that you can spam. (I tend to only use the top three in the menu, since they're the lowest MP cost and by the time I finish casting the third, the first is up for use again)

Special situations:

Sentinel + Barspells: This is most useful on a particularly large pull, when you might need to hold mobs for a long period of time. Cure the sleeper, pop Sentinel, spam Barspells. This will guarantee that you'll be the target when things wake up, no matter how long it takes to kill everything. Keep spamming barspells after Sentinel wears off, only stop to avoid taking damage while things are being reslept. You can also smack Rampart during Sentinel for a quick VE spike.


Gear: I carry four main sets with me for PLD/RDM crowd control:

Enmity: Every bit of Enmity I have, minus Parade Gorget and Ares's Cuirass, to keep my Refresh rate maxed. (I never have a BRD for these situations, just Refresh and PLDs Auto-Refresh + gear)

Defensive: Every bit of -Physical Damage Taken gear I have, and I have another setup for max Shield Skill, then -Physical Damage Taken for situations when I can keep all the mobs in range to Shield-Block. (Sometimes there are too many to do this properly, so I use pure -PDT gear + Terras Staff, and no Shield Skill gear.)

Magic Damage Down: -Magic Damage Taken and +Magic Defense Bonus. Pretty self explanatory, used when something is being cast on me and I'm worried about it being reslept in time.

Enhancing Magic + MND: This is a bit of a luxury, but it helps me get more out of Phalanx and Stoneskin. Max out your Enhancing Magic for Phalanx. I use Enhancing Torque, Augmenting Earring, AF1 Legs (AF+1 if the stupid Temenos piece would ever drop). Max out your MND and Enhancing Magic for Stoneskin. The formulas for how much of each you need, and what the best balance is, is available on the wikipedia page.


I make sure to have Protect and Shell on me (Usually with a RDM so I get Protect 4 and Shell 4, but never have the RDM Phalanx 2 me). I make sure to have Refresh, Haste if the RDM can spare the MP but it's not very necessary. I keep Phalanx up 100% of the time, and Stoneskin as much as I possibly can. I use Tavnazian Tacos and I hit Reprisal when a group of mobs wakes up, to buy myself every second that I can while someone resleeps the group.

I also use PLD/RDM for Ouryu, we sleep him on the ground while I spam Flash/Blind/Sleep in full Enmity + Refresh gear. I do the same in the air, except that I'm in Earth Resist gear. Very easy to keep hate off any number of BLMs nuking nonstop in the air, just pop Sentinel and go nuts at the start of the fight while he's sleeping on the ground. It's honestly very boring to tank after a couple times.

I hope this helps, if anyone sees anything I can improve on, or has questions, I'm all ears.


Edit: Just a notation on calling. I'm not a fan of PLD calling, and that's coming from a hardcore PLD. I fully realize that a PLD can do a good job calling, and that a DD PLD can put up respectable numbers in Dynamis, but I personally feel that there is nothing in Dynamis that a WAR can't call, while doing a significantly larger amount of damage. (Resulting in faster kills and more mobs killed per run).

Edited, Sep 24th 2009 2:05am by NCCoda
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#24 Sep 24 2009 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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We small-man a lot and don't have room to spend space on nonsupport jobs that don't put out enough damage, so we don't take PLD at all. WAR is first voke, BB MNK is usually main assist. Once in a while we might take a well-geared NIN to fill both roles.

So without a PLD, how do we handle certain mobs?

MNK: Sleep these on pull. Any BLM, SCH, or RDM with a good nuking set will first apply gravity and then drop one to two solid nukes from a distance. This is enough to set their 2hr off. Then simply sleep them before they trundle over to kill you and let them sleep it off. Melee need to pay special attention because it's not time to hit these when the main assist targets them (possibly to 'voke or whatever); it's time to attack AFTER the main assist engages... This strategy requires competence so use at your own risk, but it beats relying on Sentinel.

NIN: Nobody WS until it's at 50%, then everyone with enough TP drops it ASAP so that it never 2hrs, or 2hrs at low HP. (Come to think of it, probably would do these the same way even with a PLD as relying on Rampart isn't a good plan.)

SAM: Keep shadows up; monks who have hate probably should cancel counterstance since it can chain un-counterable WS attacks into your nerfed defenses. PLD is admittedly better on these than any other job. Ah well, just make sure your mages are ready to cure-bomb once in a while.

RNG: Blink EES; no issue. Much better than meat tanking.

The rest is same with or without PLD.

Although the advice of others seems like solid answers to your question, perhaps consider an alternate approach?

On the other hand, if your only job is PLD, maybe try all the different approaches and see what works for you. I used to like /dnc for cities because it let me drop a healer and get another DD in, but in harder zones I always felt like /nin was needed because /dnc couldn't keep up. I know old-school PLD's who swear by /war, but we don't have any of those in our LS - it's /nin or /dnc or /rdm only.
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#25 Sep 24 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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We do almost the same thing that NatePrawdzik does for those mobs, we only take one PLD and his only job is crowd control (And sometimes cpulling).
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#26 Sep 25 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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IMMENSELY helpful, friends. Thank you so much for the input!

We've done two so far (Bastok and Sandy). Been sticking to PLD/WAR (don't have /RDM leveled) and a blend of IR gear and DD, macroing in haste for spells and extra enmity into abilities. Eating Dorado Sushi. We're low manning it ourselves (less than 2 parties) but we're holding our own. We could standing to have one more of everything (one or two more DDs for faster kills, one more healer, one more sleeper, one more BLM) and we'd be making it look easy. Otherwise, we're holding our own fairly well.


Edit: added info.

Edited, Sep 25th 2009 12:10pm by StormwyndofShiva
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