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#1 Apr 03 2009 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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So from reading tons of posts on the paladin forums, I've come to see that pal/war, pal/nin, and pal/rdm are some of the options to pick when choosing a subjob.

Two questions:

1. Which is better for endgame as a whole (I know some situations prefer one over the other, but which is more useful more often)? Pal/War or Pal/Nin

2. How does the pal/rdm combo work exactly towards being beneficial to a tanking class.

Please keep in mind I'm new to the game, so this question might be easily answered by someone with more experience.

Thanx in advance
#2 Apr 03 2009 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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First, thanks for putting in some effort to look around and see what it is pld can do. You'll meet quite a few players in game that think they completely understand this job and what all it can and can't do but as I'm sure you've probably seen in some of the newer threads here, it's not always the case.


You can tank anything as pld/war but the work required by everyone else to make pld/war feasible for some things is quite huge and often times not worth the trouble. To lessen the burden on others, a pld uses /nin to blink away as much dmg as possible for some things. Examples here would be Fafnir, Nidhogg, Adamantoise, Aspidochelone, the sky guardians, and many sea trigger mobs, jailers, and other things. Blinking away dmg also plays part in low numbers situations, like certain NM fights, like those campaign op bc, some ksnms, MMM, limbus, etc. For meriting you can use /nin not only for the dmg mitigation of utsu but also for dual wielding swords, of which pld has access to two swords that can attack multiple times per round (quite fun to use).

/war comes into play when you'll want a quick punch of hate against ever changing mobs, like dynamis, some limbus floors, exp, merits (not so much to tank but for berserk, DA, and also voking mobs off puller), and trigger farming for some things (like in sky).

/rdm has some uses for a few situations where the monster either doesn't melee attack you constantly or doesn't get to attack much at all. Jailer of Love is a big example of this since you can tank it from a distance. Some manaburn strategies can also work this way, such as ouryu commeth, where the mob is slept when on the ground and nuked when it's in the sky. /rdm in these situations is superior to other choices because you gain constant hate tools in the form of spells that will keep your hate capped on the monster. It's use for exp and merits is limited at best, but for solo work it's incredible with the use of phalanx spell, enspells, and stoneskin.


In all, don't worry about endgame right now when you're just starting out. In fact, leave that for after you hit 75 and are comfortable with the time required for some of those events. Just play the game, make as many friends as you can, and leave good impressions all around. It will only help you later on since you're much more connected to your character's name in ffxi then in most other MMOs.

~Ori
#3 Apr 03 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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First, it's PLD, not PAL. That one always bugs me. Probably because I was reprimanded my first day in the game for saying I wanted to be a PAL... Anyway,

Just to add specifically to what Orinthia said:

/RDM adds Stoneskin (can be hard to get up depending on the mob, but definitely a big help if you can work it), Phalanx (constant damage reduction, reducing the amount of damage in ways that nothing else short of -PDT gear can reach), and Blink as a sort of ghetto shadow. If a mob hits for very little or the mob can be tanked from range, /RDM adds more than any other job in terms of maintaining hate while also maintaining survivability. In addition, Blind, Bind, Sleep, and Dispel spam can ensure you're maintaining a high level of Volatile enmity.
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#4 Apr 03 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Awesome. Thanks for the detail in the replies. I guess best thing for now would just to keep war as a subjob, and i'll pick up ninja as my time allows.

Thanks for the great info.
#5 Apr 03 2009 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just to note beyond what was mentioned, PLD/RDM is incredible when your job is to hold a large wave of monsters.

Example: Dynamis. Puller pulls eight monsters in to camp. BLM sleeps them. They wake up, come after the BLM, BLM dies, other people die, bad times ensue.

Or

PLD/RDM spams spells on each mob, mobs wake up, go after the PLD, BLM has plenty of time to resleep them.

Simple example, but that's the idea, PLD/RDM in a crowd control situation keeps the mobs glued to them while the group kills them one by one, and the sleepers never die because you build more hate than they do on each mob.

Edited, Apr 4th 2009 1:57am by NCCoda
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#6 Apr 04 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
It seems from your original post you're looking for subjobs for endgame use. Outside of that, I usually recommend PLD/SAM for Great Sword and Staff use (it has job abilities that are geared towards two-handed weapons), and PLD/DNC for things like Campaign and Besieged.
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#7 Apr 10 2009 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Also add /blu for super-tanking high number of mob without hate (Like Divine Might or certain group of mob in Eingerhar. But all this is very very very optionnal

the subs that you will use 99% of the time are /nin, /war, /rdm.

the others: /sam, /blu, /dnc are pretty just for very specific situation or doesn't impact a lot on overall performance.

Edited, Apr 10th 2009 12:53pm by Pryssant
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#8 Apr 10 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
the subs that you will use 99% of the time are /nin, /war, /rdm.

For endgame tanking, I'm pretty partial to /DRK as well. /RDM is great because I don't need to bother with haste gear at all thanks to Dispel's stupid short timer, but I really like the extra stun from /DRK on small-man stuff.
#9 Apr 10 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
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For endgame, except for rare niche situations, all you need are /nin and /rdm. I haven't gone pld/war to an event in so long, I can't even remember the last time that was.

pld/war and pld/dnc are the usual low level xp subs, since both give provoke, and thats mainly all pld gets from /war until 50. pld/dnc at least lets you do stuff like the endrain and enaspir, and it gives you slightly more healing ability thats uninterruptable by melee hits.

For merits, if you go pld/war.....you're the reason and people like that paladins aren't invited to merits. Do you wear adaman while you do it with full vit gear or some sh*t? Seriously, re-examine the game.

/drk and /blu and even /blm have niche situations depending on your ls. /drk can be substituted for /rdm in dynamis, and it works great kiting mobs that are stunnable and don't run fast. Makes it easy to get strong leads and land cures before they catch up. /blu is used by some linkshells to supertank fights if they have a maxxed Phalanx 2 rdm or a scholar to put Phalanx on the paladin. Without either of those, I'd still use /rdm to supertank.

/blm is used by lots of shells in einherjar. If the mobs currently up are sleepable, the pld runs up and agros the entire crowd, pulls them to the side with invincible on, and does ES sleepga. It sleeps the entire crowd, the ls pulls off a couple to kill, and after 40 seconds a blm does ES sleepga2 and you have time to kill the entire wave without anyone taking damage. It can shave 2-3 minutes off some mob pulls, which can mean a win or loss if you get a particularly nasty set of mobs followed by a bitchy boss, like a physical shield happy Hydra.
#10 Apr 12 2009 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends what you mean by endgame. To me, endgame means any event where you would best serve your group by coming as a level 75 character. That can be anything from 6-man KSNM 30s and Assault to tanking something nasty in a multiple alliance situation. If you use that broad definition, all of these subs can be useful.

Personally, I don't have /RDM leveled. I think it would be fun to use as solo, but I never tank anything where /NIN wouldn't be just as good. I use /NIN a lot but /WAR relatively often too. For example, my group just did a KSNM where the mobs get super strong when you use spells. So, I tanked as PLD with S&S only using provoke. Kinda unusual but there ya go. Also I've "tanked" /WAR in Einherjar and Dynamis where my job has mainly been crowd control - provoke + flash lets me grab more mobs than just flash, and as I said I don't have /RDM. /WAR is also very useful in certain arena and mission fights where you need to build lots of hate very quickly.

Anyway, consider what kind of endgame you want to do - particularly what size of group you like playing with, and how many hours you want to play per week. TBH you can actually do a lot at level 75 with just /WAR. There will be a lot you can't without /NIN though.
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#11 Apr 12 2009 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
Also I've "tanked" /WAR in Einherjar and Dynamis where my job has mainly been crowd control - provoke + flash lets me grab more mobs than just flash, and as I said I don't have /RDM.


Even PLD/WAR, you'll get a far better control on the mobs if you cure the person that slept them THEN spam self cures on yourself. This builds more hate on ALL of them at once. Sentinel can be used in a pinch after you're on the hate list as well.
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