Provoke glitch?Follow

possibly. i have noticed before that when i provoke at max range, sometimes it doesnt take affect, sometimes it does. i suggest just waiting until your puller gets a little closer to provoke.

This got me one shotted by Byakko as soon as we popped it D: (I was RDM).

This is very interesting, never had this happen, but might be because I generally start with flash to get it's recast time started right away XD

I've seen this many, many times. If you provoke at max range, it can seem to "miss" the mob...as if it never happened.

This does seem like a bug that needs fixing.

You were. It was a Triple attack w/ the first hit being a crit. The whole LS laughed at me. -_-

WOAH I never knew this.

Good info man.

Had this happen a bunch of times.

I figure its just some server issue.

Assuming no enmity gear:

Provoke yields 1800 VE.

In order for a DD to deal enough damage to overcome 1800 VE, they'd have to generate a total enmity of 1800 (TE). Since TE = CE + VE and since damage dealt deals both CE and VE, we can reverse engineer this.

Colibri are level 45-47, so we'll do this in 3 sets to show how much damage would need to be done to supersede provoke.

x - Damage dealt
Level 45: x*2.424 CE + x*7.27 VE = 9.694*x TE
Level 46: x*2.353 CE + x*7.06 VE = 9.413*x TE
Level 47: x*2.286 CE + x*6.86 VE = 9.146*x TE

Provoke < Damage Dealt --> How much damage needs to be dealt to equal provoke.
Level 45: 1800 < 9.694*x --> 185.68 --> 186 damage
Level 46: 1800 < 9.413*x --> 191.22 --> 192 damage
Level 47: 1800 < 9.146*x --> 196.81 --> 197 damage

Note that a LOT of that damage will be done in VE which decreases at 30 VE a second, so that unless the puller is right at camp and the mob is provoked right away, even one second will place the above damage below the enmity of provoke. This also assumes that the PLD or the WAR is not using any enmity gear (which at 37-40, they probably aren't).

However, there's one more catch. The initial puller generates 200 VE in addition to the action they used to pull. So, this lowers the threshold to

Level 45: 1800 < 9.694*x + 200 --> 165.05 --> 166 damage
Level 46: 1800 < 9.413*x + 200 --> 169.98 --> 170 damage
Level 47: 1800 < 9.146*x + 200 --> 174.94 --> 175 damage

In other words, at that level, I really find it hard to believe that the damage from a gun wielding COR or RNG dealt sufficient damage to override provoke with a single shot. A second or third shot? Maybe, but not from the initial pull. And, the tank should have done something besides just provoking by that point.

All CE and VE numbers used (Kanican's Enmity Tables. No variables were harmed in the manufacturing of this post.

That does seem wierd, but I have a question. Did you pop Warcry before or after Voking? If you did it before, then Warcry will have no effect on your enmity levels. You have to be on the mobs list before enmity starts to count.

If you did it after... Then, yeah, something seems wierd about it. I'll have to test this out myself and see what I can come up with.

Its just as I thought, even the game advocates against subbing /war ....

This is basically what might of happen. Along with other probabilities, like slow engagement vs rng/cor firing at it before you do. Esp on a mob you wont be hitting too hard, ie beetles and crawlers vs a rng/cor who might be damaging it harder+faster than you.

Also -emnity merits, all kick in early at that level?

Distance seems to be the more reasonable solution. Ive 2houred before with a good amount of hate already on me, and the mob never even flinched to look at me.

That's probably something where it's trying to target yourself for the voke--I've had this happen to me after engaging, or if I half-complete or over-complete engaging. It's something like the yellow cursor's targeting you while the blue cursor's targeting the mob.

And having voked several thousand times (WAR 75 NIN 70 and about 150 merits on WAR)--I've never noticed a problem with voke, except the one above. Any other abnormalities I could trace to normal hate mechanics.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2009 2:08am by Eltio

It seems to me like simultaneous actions on the mob are the culprit. In addition to the situation in my above post, I and the same friend were camping an NM recently and if anyone else had been around we'd have lost claim. I voked, voke went off so its wasn't the your-to-fast error, and the mob totally ignored it and stayed unclaimed. At the same instant he'd tried to claim with stun and I saw his engage animation at the same time (drew his scyth, he's a drk I'm a war). Stun also went off. We were in party mind you, and melee'd it to 50% before it finally went claimed. We were both really glad nobody else was present.

Edit:
I forgot to mention, it popped right on top of me. Distance could not possibly be a factor this time.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 5:59pm by thatdamnelf