WALL OF TEXT WARNING
Yashnaheen wrote:
Quote:
I leave my Hauby on any time my shadows are up. You'd be surprised at it. Really, though, it's only got a touch lower defense than Gallant (which is the most used piece for beginning end game PLDs, anyway) - you don't take all that more damage just because you idle in a Hauby.
And:
Quote:
Where are you getting the 100 def deference? I'm assuming you're just estimating it. And, the 20 VIT, as well, for that matter. MOST of the DD gear we have is only a few defense behind the DD gear. It's the loss of VIT and Enmity, really, that kicks in. I practically full time my homam pieces regardless of what I'm fighting. Even Byakko can be blink tanked successfully
No longer an estimate:
-75def
-19vit
-153hp
That is the difference between me idling in some acc accessories vs throwing on my DD gear to idle in. Hauby vs the usual Gallant or Adaman isn't a big deal. 1 piece at a time vs another isn't going to be a big deal. Ammo, head, neck, 2 earrings, body, 2 rings, back, waist together is. If you are missing both homam and askar hands / head, that's 2 more swaps from defense gear to dd gear, again slightly worse and adding to your total.
OK... What gear are you swapping? Here's mine. Both sets are PLD/NIN and I swap between them based on need (shadows up or down).
Full on tanking gear MAIN: Joyeuse
SUB: Iron Ram Shield
RANGE: No Item
AMMO: Bibiki Seashell
HEAD: Iron Ram Sallet
NECK: Shield Torque
EAR1: Buckler Earring
EAR2: Merman's Earring
BODY: Gallant Surcoat +1
HANDS: Iron Ram Dastanas
RING1: Hercules' Ring
RING2: Rajas Ring
BACK: Resentment Cape
WAIST: Warwolf Belt
LEGS: Iron Ram Hose
FEET: Gallant Leggings +1
HP : 1441
MP : 286
Att: 399
Def: 376
Enm: +23
STR: 73+17=90
DEX: 61+10=71
VIT: 73+18=91
AGI: 51+00=51
INT: 50-02=48
MND: 68+00=68
CHR: 63+05=68
Tanking with Shadows Up MAIN: Joyeuse
SUB: Iron Ram Shield
RANGE: No Item
AMMO: Smart Grenade
HEAD: Walahra Turban
NECK: Peacock Charm
EAR1: Fowling Earring
EAR2: Merman's Earring
BODY: Haubergeon +1
HANDS: Homam Manopolas
RING1: Woodsman Ring
RING2: Rajas Ring
BACK: Amemet Mantle +1
WAIST: Swift Belt
LEGS: Homam Cosciales
FEET: Amir Boots
HP : 1402
MP : 362
Att: 432
Def: 319
Enm: +3
STR: 73+21=94
DEX: 61+11=72
VIT: 73+03=76
AGI: 51-05=46
INT: 50-02=48
MND: 68+00=68
CHR: 63+00=63
Difference?
HP: 1402-1441: -39
MP: 0362-0286: +76
Att: 432-399 : +33
Def: 319-376 : -57
STR: 94-90 : +04
DEX: 72-71 : +01
VIT: 76-91 : -15
AGI: 46-51 : -06
INT: 48-48 : -00
MND: 68-68 : -00
CHR: 63-68 : -05
You're losing 18 more Def, 4 more Vit, and 114 more hp than I am between sets. So, either you've got a **** of a lot better Standard gear than I do or my DD gear has more defensive stats than yours does. And, having tanked Byakko 3-4 times now in this setup, I've yet to die more than once. Maybe I'm just more comfortable with it than you are (presently), maybe I ride the line a bit more than you do or am more comfortable with riding the line than you are, or our support is vastly different. Until we see the gear sets, I don't think we'll know. I also typically eat Cabonoras, which'll boost my hp up (maybe you're calculating food, as well?), but that adds 175 hp to both sets (since they're both above the cap of 175), letting me sit at 1577 or 1616, depending on DD or turtle setup.
Yashnaheen wrote:
Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, so Ill tell you what I do. Taking Byakko while /nin as an example again I set a goal of never going under 550 def, 100 vit or swapping gear to go under 1450hp. In this case I can't spare a whole lot, but I can add in 29 ACC including 5 sword skill. Most of the time the majority of the damage is blinked away. Even if he is ****** off and triple attack -> ws -> triple attack Ill still be standing there, well into the red while I likely shed enough hate getting mauled for him to turn to my co tank. I'd be standing there far, far less often If I didn't limit how much defensive stats and hp I swap out.
I think this, right here, makes a big difference. Namely:
Yashnaheen paraphrased wrote:
Goals are:
Def: 550
VIT: 100
HP: 1450
My DEF RARELY, if ever, approaches 550. Notice it's 376 (436 with Prot V) for my heavy defensive set. It's only 319 (376) for my DD set. And, I've never had any issues. So, again, I think you've got a lot more defensive Defense gear than I do. I'm trying to figure out what it is, exactly, too, since I don't see many upgrades I'd think are worth the time/effort to pick up.
Yashnaheen wrote:
Yes, Byakko can be blinked tanked successfully. A nin in my LS solo tanked him a number of times when the shell was just getting off the ground. Its just not always doable, and I'd prefer to be standing there when he isn't being a nice kitty then just staying alive when he is.
Agreed, and NIN has an easier time of this than PLD, anyway. Four shadows from Ni helps a lot when you get Triple Attacked.
Yashnaheen wrote:
Quote:
-hp isn't a horrible thing, but it should generally be avoided if it is possible. Tiphia Sting is a meh piece (imo), anyway. A single accuracy isn't worth the loss of hp.
-hp is a horrible thing when you swap below your margin of safety vs what is in front of you. This HP mark gets higher as you take out defensive stats. -HP is especially a concern to the OP due to Taruness. Sting is an example of a bad choice, yes.
My HP total looks a LOT higher than your baseline to begin with. So, I don't recall a position where I get that close to hitting 0 without going from mostly full, anyway.
Specifically, however, I was referring to CE loss, anyway. Again, my "margin for safety" is apparently higher than yours. My lowest hp is 1577 in DD gear, 127 points higher than your safety margin for Byakko. Maybe that's why I'm not sweating a little -hp. Notice, I don't really have any in my build as it stands, anyway.
Yashnaheen wrote:
So I guess the moral is better communication, to rephrase my first post: Set a lower limit to your stats respective to what is in front of you, do not go under it. Set an ACC mark, then do the tp gain math when choosing between a haste piece and an acc piece.
I'll agree to this - I just set some of my marks far lower than you do. Hence, our disagreement.
Edit: Making it a little more readible... still a wall of text.
Edited, Feb 19th 2009 6:43pm by Dracoth Edited, Feb 19th 2009 6:48pm by Dracoth