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IR Legs or ValorFollow

#1 Feb 10 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Thats the question, which is better.

I have valor now, but they seem rather untankly.

Are IR a worthy replacement? (Except when /nin 10% interrupt down yes please)
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#2 Feb 10 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Default
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are you saying you have the full valor set? the IR set is defintely good in terms of emnity but it doesnt look shiny and stylish though... erm... in my opinion
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#3 Feb 10 2009 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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yes, i'm 5/5 on all 3 of my 75's.

Valor hat was replaced by IR helm already. valor shoes are a macro bit, hands are full time, and body is full time.


edit:
I dont have homam or crimson yet, nor ability for either at this time

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Edited, Feb 10th 2009 11:23pm by LowLvGoldsmith
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#4 Feb 10 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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LowLvGoldsmith wrote:
(Except when /nin 10% interrupt down yes please)


Smiley: disappointed
#5 Feb 10 2009 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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A quick look at the stats on both sets will give you your answer. Everything that makes Valor good, Iron Ram does better with some MDB to boot. The only exception is for JA macros.

That said, Valor does look much snazzier, so the answer is: Valor in town, Iron Ram when tanking.
#6 Feb 10 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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my worry is the difference in defense given really.
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#7 Feb 10 2009 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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You're worried about a few points of Defense? Really, the way Defense is always complained about (Def/Vit is broken, etc), I wouldn't sweat it. There's little we can do (even on end game mobs) to make a noticeable difference in damage taken if we're using the right gear. IR vs. Valor isn't an issue - you'll notice very little difference. Valor vs. Hauby has only a little, as well, in terms of Defense.
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#8 Feb 10 2009 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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True, it is only 7 less lol
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#9 Feb 11 2009 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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I use Valor legs, I don't think that the 1 Enmity hurts and I'm a big fan of the -10 Interruption, combined with Reprisal and a proper shield build, to eek out every chance of a block or uninterrupted casting.



Edited, Feb 11th 2009 3:27am by NCCoda
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#10 Feb 11 2009 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
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IR is great for Enmity and MDB, as well as a rather moderate increase to all your elemental resistance. It's also quite a bit easier to obtain than valor armor.

Valor armor is a sort of dead set now, with the body being the only piece I'd recommend equipping full-time. As far as their use for enhancing job abilities, I still only consider the body and boots worth carrying around.

Shield Bash+10 has never done anything I can noticeably see to any enemy I use it on. The common thought back in the day was that it increased your chance to stun, which, if true, is obsolete now that shield bash seems to have a 100% stun rate by itself. If anyone knows exactly what it does I'd be grateful for the enlightenment.

Another 15 seconds to rampart is great, except that the defense it offers is nothing in the realm of amazing, and the magic shield is usually gone shortly after I use it. It simply isn't a big enough boost to validate taking away inventory space.

I'm not a big fan over interruption reduction gear, as I feel the bonuses are always too small to ever stack it effectively without sacrificing more important attributes. It's far more realistic to just learn to time your spells correctly, and with our shield now offering 100% interruption reduction upon a successful block, it seems even more superfluous. That said, the STR+5 is still nice for a WS macro. I just wouldn't tank in it.


On the flip side, Valor Surcoat's alteration to cover is akin to having chivalry on a 3 minute timer. 1/4 damage converted to MP can easily refill your mana supply in a hurry. Words can't really express how much love I have for that piece.

The boots are fairly obvious; Another 10% damage reduction on sentinel is just damn nice.


Until IR Body is added, Valor Surcoat is the only full-time body piece worth tanking in. Otherwise IR is statistically superior.

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#11 Feb 11 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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The resistance given by I.R. is pretty much useless. 5-10 resistance is not going to do anything for you at all, you might as well have 0. The OP already has Valor as well, so the difficulty of getting it (very little since the drop update) means nothing in this situation.

Valor hands "+10" means that shield bash does 10 more dmg. Normally 22 without, 32 with.

Honestly, it all depends on the mob. If the mob wipes your shadows fast, the valor is nice, if you can keep shadows up or it a spell heavy mob, stick with I.R.

I think the +5 STR is pretty nice in stopping a PLD from hitting for 0s. Although, I guess you could just macro in Valor on ichi casts and I.R. on JAs and spells.

Valor surcoat is also just a macro piece at this point btw =P
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#12 Feb 11 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would look at it in part as an inventory issue. Sure, IR have more enmity...but on the whole, the two pieces are pretty similar.

Were it a question of which to go for, then I'd say IR wins out. Since you already have Valor though, I'd just not worry about IR unless you're building a MDB set.
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#13 Feb 11 2009 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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It should also be noted that if you're especially concerned with the spell interruption -10% on Valor, you can simply swap them into your Ichi casts.

Ultimately, you'll probably want to pick up Iron Ram for the MDB anyway, even though the advantage over Valor for general tanking is pretty slight. The MDB will make Iron Ram quite useful even after you obtain Homam Cosciales.
#14 Feb 11 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Warkupo wrote:
Until IR Body is added, Valor Surcoat is the only full-time body piece worth tanking in. Otherwise IR is statistically superior.


Ares's Cuirass, Hydra Haubert, Avalon, even a Hauby/+1 all have their use "full-time" tanking.

Edit: Valor Gauntlets add +10 Damage to Shield Bash

Edited, Feb 11th 2009 12:10pm by NCCoda
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#15 Feb 11 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Since I don't do Dynamis (yet), I've primarily bounced between Gallant Surcoat +1 and Haubergeon +1 based on shadows. While I think Valor Surcoat is nice, I'm still holding out that the IR body will be comparable. I'm also now sitting on 200k in Allied Notes, so I'm expecting to get it the moment they release it.

For a lot of players, Valor Surcoat just isn't as much of an option as we'd otherwise like. There's lots of other standbys, the default of which is our AF. It only gets better from there.
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#16 Feb 11 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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NCCoda wrote:
Warkupo wrote:
Until IR Body is added, Valor Surcoat is the only full-time body piece worth tanking in. Otherwise IR is statistically superior.


Ares's Cuirass, Hydra Haubert, Avalon, even a Hauby/+1 all have their use "full-time" tanking.

Edit: Valor Gauntlets add +10 Damage to Shield Bash

Edited, Feb 11th 2009 12:10pm by NCCoda


I meant of the Valor Pieces. Everything else would only be used for JA's.

I would likely replace Valor Surcoat with Ares's Cuirass as my 'full-time' armor if I had one, with Valor only coming out for the cover.
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#17 Feb 11 2009 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Eurell wrote:
The resistance given by I.R. is pretty much useless. 5-10 resistance is not going to do anything for you at all, you might as well have 0. The OP already has Valor as well, so the difficulty of getting it (very little since the drop update) means nothing in this situation.

Valor hands "+10" means that shield bash does 10 more dmg. Normally 22 without, 32 with.

Honestly, it all depends on the mob. If the mob wipes your shadows fast, the valor is nice, if you can keep shadows up or it a spell heavy mob, stick with I.R.

I think the +5 STR is pretty nice in stopping a PLD from hitting for 0s. Although, I guess you could just macro in Valor on ichi casts and I.R. on JAs and spells.

Valor surcoat is also just a macro piece at this point btw =P


By itself, yes. When all used together the set offers 15 resistance to all elements (likely to become 20 when/if the IR body comes out), on top of the MDB already given. Add a barspell in there and you have a rather nice start for an elemental resist set up that won't break your wallet or greatly diminish your Enmity. The IR set is very good in this aspect, especially paired up with other MDB pieces.
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#18 Feb 11 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Warkupo wrote:
I meant of the Valor Pieces. Everything else would only be used for JA's.

I would likely replace Valor Surcoat with Ares's Cuirass as my 'full-time' armor if I had one, with Valor only coming out for the cover.


Gotcha, I misunderstood your post ^^

I just got Valor body last night, I've been using a combination of Gallant+1, Hauby+1, Coral Scale, and Assault Breastplate. I don't see myself phasing out any of those except the Gallant+1, although whenever LBC drops a Phobos Cuirass and I pull 9m gil out of my butt I would probably shift my current tanking around to build more around the Ares's body.
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#19 Feb 11 2009 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Warkupo wrote:

By itself, yes. When all used together the set offers 15 resistance to all elements (likely to become 20 when/if the IR body comes out), on top of the MDB already given. Add a barspell in there and you have a rather nice start for an elemental resist set up that won't break your wallet or greatly diminish your Enmity. The IR set is very good in this aspect, especially paired up with other MDB pieces.


I haven't used full IR (well, the 4 pieces we have now) in a resistance build (I only use one for KS99 Wyrm atm, Ouryu sometime soon).

Doing the math, I would lose a large chunk of resistance by dropping my current head/hands/legs/feet to use the full set, although I use the Hands/Feet in my Fire build since I'm already resisting at capped % rate on KS99.

Actually thinking about it before I post, I could probably still hit enough Fire Resistance for the KS99 using 4xIR. We just did a big round so we won't do it again for awhile, but if anyone else is doing one soon or knows what the bare minimum number to resist 90%+ on that fight, I'd like to find out.
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#20 Feb 11 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I think thats very funny how you say pld af2 is not very tankly lol, i sometimes feel the same way based on the fact that there is much better tank gear out there nowadays ... like the IR and askar sets. But on the other hand The valor gear is also very friendly and complimentary to paladins, I myself go with the valor set im a galka btw. Im trying to focus on max HP and rely on things to regain MP such as Valor Surcoat, Auto-refresh (from the job trait itself), sanction if i have it sometimes, Chivalry, and im trying to get myself and ethereal earring. Also thinking about just carrying ethers on me.

The IR set has x2 things in my opinion that are appealing, the amazing levels of +enmity and i suppose the bonus from having the set.. whatever that is. But i think the valor set is better.
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#21 Feb 11 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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You missed MDB which has a more noticeable effect on resisting magic damage than the elemental resistances does.

IR has huge potential over Valor. Especially since it is far easier to obtain. It can be solo, it can be done when you want it done, and it is easily comparable. Honestly, it's put most valor pieces in to the "Macro for Job Abilities only" category for me if and when I do get Valor.
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#22 Feb 12 2009 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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15 resist on 4 pieces is useless. You need at least 250+ to even make a resist set semi useful. 300 is the number you want to hit though.

It is possible to make it work with 4/4 I.R., but to do so you would need the more expensive and hard to obtain gear (Hrotti, num.+1, Cerb mantle, assault breastplate, etc..). If you have the ability to get all of those, Im sure you have the ability to get crimson legs (although some people are incredibly unlucky on that drop), which are considerably better than I.R legs for resists.

Barspells and 15 resist in gear is not going to resist anything worthwhile to make it a point to gear that way. I.R. is great for an MDB build, but not for a full out resist set (unless you have everything you could possible have.)

As far as full time bodies, I prefer Avalon as it has not only great defensive stats, but +13 acc which helps with atonement spam. The +3 enmity is also very nice over Ares imo. But thats just a difference in tanking styles I suppose.
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#23 Feb 12 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Good use of the word "untankly"
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#24 Feb 12 2009 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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#25 Feb 12 2009 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eurell wrote:
15 resist on 4 pieces is useless. You need at least 250+ to even make a resist set semi useful. 300 is the number you want to hit though.

It is possible to make it work with 4/4 I.R., but to do so you would need the more expensive and hard to obtain gear (Hrotti, num.+1, Cerb mantle, assault breastplate, etc..). If you have the ability to get all of those, Im sure you have the ability to get crimson legs (although some people are incredibly unlucky on that drop), which are considerably better than I.R legs for resists.

Barspells and 15 resist in gear is not going to resist anything worthwhile to make it a point to gear that way. I.R. is great for an MDB build, but not for a full out resist set (unless you have everything you could possible have.)

As far as full time bodies, I prefer Avalon as it has not only great defensive stats, but +13 acc which helps with atonement spam. The +3 enmity is also very nice over Ares imo. But thats just a difference in tanking styles I suppose.


Well I know for Tiamat and Ouryu people tend to get as much resist as possible, but I know that the KS99 Wyrm does not need nearly as much. For that reason I was thinking it was possible to use the IR set for the Enmity and MDB along with resist in all the other slots and still achieve a high enough resist rate.

I can hit 138 Fire resist using 4/4 IR gear, plus 50 from Carol, and plus whatever a WHM with Barspell merits + AF Legs can reach, I'm sure that's plenty for the Wyrm in particular. (No Hrotti but I am fortunate enough to have gotten an Assault Breastplate from a friend that got it from the ENM, and had a Cerberus Bow crafted)

Whenever we do KS99 again I'll try it, but it will probably be several months since we all just burned our seals up in Jan.

Edited, Feb 12th 2009 6:17pm by NCCoda
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#26 Feb 16 2009 at 5:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I would use Iron Ram over af2 legs for the extra enmity and MDB.
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#27 Feb 17 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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i like just walking around in my af1+1 boots and nothing else but my sword and shield... i call them my moonboots.
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#28 Feb 17 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Either way you should be buying the IR Legs for a MDB set.

Personally I choose the IR Legs. With Homam in for Reprisal, Flash, Ichi and Ni.
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#29 Feb 18 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Equivocator wrote:
Personally I choose the IR Legs. With Homam in for Reprisal, Flash, Ichi and Ni.

You should always have homam on, and swap it in for things, things being , cures and JAs.

You shouldnt be swapping homam in for flashes, ichi,ni, because homam should already be on you.

IE- if your talking about IR, you should be maining homam, and IR in for
JA+Cures.

Edited, Feb 18th 2009 1:54am by hitoseijuro
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