Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Tanking with DD Gear - A GuideFollow

#52 May 19 2009 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
35 posts
you can add Trance Belt to the enmity build lvl 72 enmity +4
#53 May 21 2009 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
940 posts
There's a shield you might wish to add, labeled as an luxury item. Level 50, kite (same .DAT as a Generals,) Sentinel Shield, PLD/RDM/BST/SAM/WAR. Def:10, STR+3 Haste+1% In besieged: Haste+2% Can be bought with 8k isp, lance corporal rank i believe. In a pure DD build, every bit of haste is important, and having this lets you keep the benefits of a shield (though the DEF is kinda low,) while still adding some DD stats. I use it on PLD right now, but it really shines on my Joytoy wielding 74RDM with it's haste+10% (15% at 75.) Couple Homam pieces will build up PLD even better.
____________________________
I am the Ranger. I shoot the pointy things at the bad guys and they fall down.
RNG75 NIN75 RDM75 DRK75 PLD64 SAM52 WAR38 WHM38 DRG37 BLM37 SCH37 THF29 SMN22 MNK18 BST10 BLU6
#54 May 21 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
743 posts
Assault Earring.

Also FYI, Toreador's Cape has a hidden effect of increased critical hits taken wiki cites it as much as up to 40%
____________________________
Retired

10,000 Pages wrote:
Kaolian is become death; destroyer of all fun and good times.

Johnny Cash wrote:
Faith, it's like a flower of light in a field of darkness giving me the strength to carry on.
#55 May 21 2009 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
***
2,720 posts
Enmity gear should be macro only, so that shouldn't be a huge concern. I _should_ have a note on it, however, so it's clear that this is the case.

When I update again, I'll add assault earring. (Should be soon...)
____________________________
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#56 May 21 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,649 posts
I haven't read every single piece of information on the guide, but I did notice you added in shields for emnity. Should be noted that the shield should be full-timed since macroing them causes you to lose TP.
____________________________

#57 May 21 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,720 posts
Good point. I'll add that to the shield portion of it.
____________________________
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#58 Jun 25 2009 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
110 posts
i hate typing. you deserve a trophy of some sort just for all that effort you put forth in typing.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.
#59 Jun 25 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,283 posts
Quote:
21 - Spike Necklace


Quote:
24 - Tiger Stole - Tiger Stole is better until the user reaches a total of 175 attack. At that point, the extra Strength of the Spike Necklace will out-DD it.


Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.
____________________________
ZIITB?
#60 Jun 25 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
***
2,720 posts
gameslaver wrote:
i hate typing. you deserve a trophy of some sort just for all that effort you put forth in typing.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.


My fingers are far from gnarly. I've grown up with a computer strapped to my fingers for as long as I can remember. Try typing a dissertation - this thing is SHORT compared to my usual typing.

Skyra wrote:
Quote:
21 - Spike Necklace


Quote:
24 - Tiger Stole - Tiger Stole is better until the user reaches a total of 175 attack. At that point, the extra Strength of the Spike Necklace will out-DD it.


Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.


It's been shown in other forums (MNK and WAR come to mind, but I'm not finding any threads atm) that the attack boost is actually significantly more beneficial at those levels until you can start stacking more Accuracy to make Accuracy food more worthwhile.

Specifically, compare the following setups:

Spike Necklace vs. Tiger Stole.

Main difference: Spike Necklace has 122 Attack and 87 Accuracy vs. Tiger Stole's 125 Attack and 85 Accuracy. Two accuracy is a 2.35% increase going from 85 to 87. 122 Attack to 125 Attack is a 2.46% increase. Technically, according to the math, the Tiger Stole wins. And it will continue to win for quite a while, hence the note I left. Does it win by enough? That's up to the individual to decide. I'm leaving it as is, as it does show the technical increases. The 175 discussion can be found, again, in other threads that I'm not finding with my brief glancing. I'm sure someone else can point them out, though.
____________________________
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#61 Jun 25 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
6,481 posts
fSTR
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#62 Jun 25 2009 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
***
2,720 posts
Found what I was looking at, and, yes, I'm aware of fSTR, Shinta. You successfully proved it to me before. I'm specifically looking at the [link=http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=4;mid=1210378018228152254;page=1;howmany=100#m121037802899659735]Warrior's **** and this commentary underneath Spike Necklace and Tiger Stole:

milich on Spike vs. Tiger Stole wrote:

at 21, i’d imagine tiger stole wins, and they quickly become even, but i’m not sure. um... let’s see what weapon you use then...

k, neckchopper. so base dmg is about 45. spike necklace has a 75% chance of raising base dmg by 1. assuming that happens, it’s about a 2.222% increase. 3DEX gives about 2ACC, and thus 1ACC%. assuming your ACC is mad low (50%), that’s a 2% increase for a total increase of 4.2%. the ACC bonus will be more or less static, and the base dmg % increase will get lower as your weapons’ base dmgs increase. however, the total bonus should always hover around 3%.

5ATT will give around a 4% increase once your ATT is, um.... let’s do algebra, assuming mobs are 7 levels above you:

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = .04
well, (X/(X/1.25)-.35) = X * X/1.25 - .35 which = 1.25 - .35, which = .9, so...
our original equation can become...
[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9]/.9 = .04
((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9 = .036
(X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35 = .936
(X+5)/(X/1.25) = 1.286
(1.25X + 6.25)/X = 1.286
1.25X + 6.25 = 1.286X
6.25 = .036X
173.611 = X

soooooo, tiger stole will beat spike necklace until your ATT is around 175. the lower the mobs DEF, the earlier spike necklace will come out ahead, but this is about as close to a “general rule” as one could deduce on the topic.


This was before ALL the information about damage dealing was done, however, as this is one of the earlier posts on the subject I've seen. Since our understanding has improved since then.

Edit: Fixed quote tag

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 7:40pm by Dracoth
____________________________
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#63 Jun 26 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
**
475 posts
Skyra wrote:
Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.


Accuracy being hard to come by is irrelevant. At this level, one attack is MORE DoT than one accuracy. That's far from true at 75, but at low levels attack is all a DD needs to care about. Unless there's an accuracy piece in a slot that gives no attack... I don't think there are any of those though. Not till PCC.

Edit: Of course in the case of tiger stole vs. spike necklace, if fSTR changes, it's a whole new ballgame.

Edited, Jun 27th 2009 12:17pm by Illusitaru
____________________________
Illusio - Caitsith

Gandhi wrote:
A man is but the product of his thoughts; what he thinks, he becomes.
#64 Dec 04 2009 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
***
2,720 posts
Huge necrobump, but my mind has been drawn back to this again. It really deserves to be finished. However, in direct reply to myself from two posts up, given other discussions, I decided to crunch some numbers. Specifically, I'm reworking the math that shows when Tiger Stole beats out Spike Necklace from the PLD's point of view.

This begins with milich's math. X is our current attack value. Y is the percent increase necessary to beat out Spike Necklace. All calculations assume that the mob is 7 levels higher, as per milich's original math.
[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = Y 
(X/(X/1.25)-.35)=(X/X)*1.25-.35)=.9 
[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-.9]/.9 = Y 
((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-.9 = .9Y 
(X+5)*1.25/(X)-.35-.9=.9Y 
(1.25X+6.25)/X-1.25=.9Y 
1.25X+6.25-1.25X=.9XY 
6.25=.9XY 
6.25/.9Y=X 
X=6.94444/Y 


Using the final equation, it's easy to see the Attack needed for the percentages being equal.

A note on percent increase:

I calculated the Spike Necklace as the following:
  • fSTR % increase for Base Damage is 1/starting Damage.
  • Accuracy was calculated using 3 DEX * .5 = 1.5 * .5 again to get the hitrate increase. This will account for the average case between getting two extra Accuracy vs. one extra Accuracy based on current Dex. % increase is then calculated by taking this value and dividing it by some base accuracy.
  • Summing these together gives the best case % increase for the Spike Necklace - this value is the Y value in the equation.

  • So, without further ado, here's the results.

    First, the case (25%) where fSTR doesn't increase base damage.
    Accuracy    Y       X 
    50         1.5     463 
    60         1.2     556 
    70         1.1     648 
    80         0.9     741 
    90         0.8     833 
    95         0.0     999 
    

    Base Damage    Accuracy    Y       X 
    15                50      8.2     085 
                      60      7.9     088 
                      70      7.7     090 
                      80      7.6     091 
                      90      7.5     093 
     
    16                50      7.7     090 
                      60      7.5     093 
                      70      7.3     095 
                      80      7.2     097 
                      90      7.1     098 
     
    17                50      7.4     094 
                      60      7.1     097 
                      70      7.0     100 
                      80      6.8     102 
                      90      6.7     103 
     
    18                50      7.1     098 
                      60      6.8     102 
                      70      6.6     105 
                      80      6.5     107 
                      90      6.4     109 
     
    19                50      6.8     103 
                      60      6.5     107 
                      70      6.3     110 
                      80      6.2     112 
                      90      6.1     114 
     
    20                50      6.5     107 
                      60      6.2     111 
                      70      6.1     114 
                      80      6.9     117 
                      90      5.8     119


    So, a few notes.

    First note: The 175 rule is VASTLY out of date for PLD (and is what I think Shintasama was pointing at earlier). This is mostly due to the effect that in the formula, the attack needed to overcome the % increase of the +STR/+DEX is inversely proportional that % increase. I have a hunch (I'll check it when I'm less tired) that this fact will be independent of mob level - the only thing that will change it is mob defense (and thus, the constant of proportionality), not the level correction which appears to normalize out of the formula.

    Second note: Two handers get a different formula from one-handers, so the general rule shouldn't have been applied like it was by myself.

    Third note: The higher the base damage the weapon, the more attack is needed to overcome the smaller increase from fSTR. As better swords become equipped, it's necessary to reevaluate.

    Fourth note: As of this writing, it finally donned on me that we're also neglecting the attack boost from the spike necklace as well. Since that will only increase Y, it will only FURTHER decrease the attack at which Spike Necklace is useful.

    It looks like, as a general rule, the lower your base damage is, the sooner you should put on the spike necklace. PLD is probably in the portion where we're quickly going to break into it. IMO, it's probably in the low hundreds.

    Edited, Dec 4th 2009 12:27am by Dracoth
    ____________________________
    Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
    1 2 Next »
    Reply To Thread

    Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

     

    Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CDT
    Anonymous Guests (18)