Scholar

35 posts

you can add Trance Belt to the enmity build lvl 72 enmity +4

Scholar

940 posts

There's a shield you might wish to add, labeled as an luxury item. Level 50, kite (same .DAT as a Generals,) Sentinel Shield, PLD/RDM/BST/SAM/WAR. Def:10, STR+3 Haste+1% In besieged: Haste+2% Can be bought with 8k isp, lance corporal rank i believe. In a pure DD build, every bit of haste is important, and having this lets you keep the benefits of a shield (though the DEF is kinda low,) while still adding some DD stats. I use it on PLD right now, but it really shines on my Joytoy wielding 74RDM with it's haste+10% (15% at 75.) Couple Homam pieces will build up PLD even better.

RNG75 NIN75 RDM75 DRK75 PLD64 SAM52 WAR38 WHM38 DRG37 BLM37 SCH37 THF29 SMN22 MNK18 BST10 BLU6

743 posts

Assault Earring.

Also FYI, Toreador's Cape has a hidden effect of increased critical hits**taken** wiki cites it as much as up to 40%

Also FYI, Toreador's Cape has a hidden effect of increased critical hits

10,000 Pages wrote:

Kaolian is become death; destroyer of all fun and good times.

Johnny Cash wrote:

Faith, it's like a flower of light in a field of darkness giving me the strength to carry on.

Sage

2,720 posts

Enmity gear should be macro only, so that shouldn't be a huge concern. I _should_ have a note on it, however, so it's clear that this is the case.

When I update again, I'll add assault earring. (Should be soon...)

When I update again, I'll add assault earring. (Should be soon...)

Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78

Scholar

1,649 posts

I haven't read every single piece of information on the guide, but I did notice you added in shields for emnity. Should be noted that the shield should be full-timed since macroing them causes you to lose TP.

Sage

2,720 posts

Good point. I'll add that to the shield portion of it.

Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78

Scholar

110 posts

i hate typing. you deserve a trophy of some sort just for all that effort you put forth in typing.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.

Scholar

1,283 posts

Quote:

21 - Spike Necklace

Quote:

24 - Tiger Stole - Tiger Stole is better until the user reaches a total of 175 attack. At that point, the extra Strength of the Spike Necklace will out-DD it.

Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.

ZIITB?

Sage

2,720 posts

gameslaver wrote:

i hate typing. you deserve a trophy of some sort just for all that effort you put forth in typing.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.

we should lobby for an official "dracoth the mad typer" holiday in vana diel.

i bet you have stubby, knarled up finger tips.

My fingers are far from gnarly. I've grown up with a computer strapped to my fingers for as long as I can remember. Try typing a dissertation - this thing is SHORT compared to my usual typing.

Skyra wrote:

Quote:

21 - Spike Necklace

Quote:

24 - Tiger Stole - Tiger Stole is better until the user reaches a total of 175 attack. At that point, the extra Strength of the Spike Necklace will out-DD it.

Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.

21 - Spike Necklace

Quote:

24 - Tiger Stole - Tiger Stole is better until the user reaches a total of 175 attack. At that point, the extra Strength of the Spike Necklace will out-DD it.

Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.

It's been shown in other forums (MNK and WAR come to mind, but I'm not finding any threads atm) that the attack boost is actually significantly more beneficial at those levels until you can start stacking more Accuracy to make Accuracy food more worthwhile.

Specifically, compare the following setups:

Spike Necklace vs. Tiger Stole.

Main difference: Spike Necklace has 122 Attack and 87 Accuracy vs. Tiger Stole's 125 Attack and 85 Accuracy. Two accuracy is a 2.35% increase going from 85 to 87. 122 Attack to 125 Attack is a 2.46% increase. Technically, according to the math, the Tiger Stole wins. And it will continue to win for quite a while, hence the note I left. Does it win by enough? That's up to the individual to decide. I'm leaving it as is, as it does show the technical increases. The 175 discussion can be found, again, in other threads that I'm not finding with my brief glancing. I'm sure someone else can point them out, though.

Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78

6,481 posts

fSTR

Quote:

I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless

Winston Churchill wrote:

Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things

Sage

2,720 posts

Found what I was looking at, and, yes, I'm aware of fSTR, Shinta. You successfully proved it to me before. I'm specifically looking at the Warrior's Arsenal and this commentary underneath Spike Necklace and Tiger Stole:

at 21, i’d imagine tiger stole wins, and they quickly become even, but i’m not sure. um... let’s see what weapon you use then...

k, neckchopper. so base dmg is about 45. spike necklace has a 75% chance of raising base dmg by 1. assuming that happens, it’s about a 2.222% increase. 3DEX gives about 2ACC, and thus 1ACC%. assuming your ACC is mad low (50%), that’s a 2% increase for a total increase of 4.2%. the ACC bonus will be more or less static, and the base dmg % increase will get lower as your weapons’ base dmgs increase. however, the total bonus should always hover around 3%.

5ATT will give around a 4% increase once your ATT is, um.... let’s do algebra, assuming mobs are 7 levels above you:

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = .04

well, (X/(X/1.25)-.35) = X * X/1.25 - .35 which = 1.25 - .35, which = .9, so...

our original equation can become...

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9]/.9 = .04

((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9 = .036

(X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35 = .936

(X+5)/(X/1.25) = 1.286

(1.25X + 6.25)/X = 1.286

1.25X + 6.25 = 1.286X

6.25 = .036X

173.611 = X

soooooo, tiger stole will beat spike necklace until your ATT is around 175. the lower the mobs DEF, the earlier spike necklace will come out ahead, but this is about as close to a “general rule” as one could deduce on the topic.

This was before ALL the information about damage dealing was done, however, as this is one of the earlier posts on the subject I've seen. Since our understanding has improved since then.

Edit: Fixed quote tag

*Edited, Jun 25th 2009 7:40pm by Dracoth*

milich on Spike vs. Tiger Stole wrote:

at 21, i’d imagine tiger stole wins, and they quickly become even, but i’m not sure. um... let’s see what weapon you use then...

k, neckchopper. so base dmg is about 45. spike necklace has a 75% chance of raising base dmg by 1. assuming that happens, it’s about a 2.222% increase. 3DEX gives about 2ACC, and thus 1ACC%. assuming your ACC is mad low (50%), that’s a 2% increase for a total increase of 4.2%. the ACC bonus will be more or less static, and the base dmg % increase will get lower as your weapons’ base dmgs increase. however, the total bonus should always hover around 3%.

5ATT will give around a 4% increase once your ATT is, um.... let’s do algebra, assuming mobs are 7 levels above you:

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = .04

well, (X/(X/1.25)-.35) = X * X/1.25 - .35 which = 1.25 - .35, which = .9, so...

our original equation can become...

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9]/.9 = .04

((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9 = .036

(X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35 = .936

(X+5)/(X/1.25) = 1.286

(1.25X + 6.25)/X = 1.286

1.25X + 6.25 = 1.286X

6.25 = .036X

173.611 = X

soooooo, tiger stole will beat spike necklace until your ATT is around 175. the lower the mobs DEF, the earlier spike necklace will come out ahead, but this is about as close to a “general rule” as one could deduce on the topic.

This was before ALL the information about damage dealing was done, however, as this is one of the earlier posts on the subject I've seen. Since our understanding has improved since then.

Edit: Fixed quote tag

Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78

Sage

475 posts

Skyra wrote:

Spike also has 1.5ACC, which at that level is hard to come by. Toss the tiger and keep the spike I say.

Accuracy being hard to come by is irrelevant. At this level, one attack is MORE DoT than one accuracy. That's

Edit: Of course in the case of tiger stole vs. spike necklace, if fSTR changes, it's a whole new ballgame.

Illusio - Caitsith

Gandhi wrote:

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Sage

2,720 posts

Huge necrobump, but my mind has been drawn back to this again. It really deserves to be finished. However, in direct reply to myself from two posts up, given other discussions, I decided to crunch some numbers. Specifically, I'm reworking the math that shows when Tiger Stole beats out Spike Necklace from the PLD's point of view.

This begins with milich's math. X is our current attack value. Y is the percent increase necessary to beat out Spike Necklace. All calculations assume that the mob is 7 levels higher, as per milich's original math.

Using the final equation, it's easy to see the Attack needed for the percentages being equal.

A note on percent increase:

I calculated the Spike Necklace as the following:

fSTR % increase for Base Damage is 1/starting Damage. Accuracy was calculated using 3 DEX * .5 = 1.5 * .5 again to get the hitrate increase. This will account for the average case between getting two extra Accuracy vs. one extra Accuracy based on current Dex. % increase is then calculated by taking this value and dividing it by some base accuracy. Summing these together gives the best case % increase for the Spike Necklace - this value is the Y value in the equation.

So, without further ado, here's the results.

First, the case (25%) where fSTR doesn't increase base damage.

So, a few notes.

First note: The 175 rule is VASTLY out of date for PLD (and is what I think Shintasama was pointing at earlier). This is mostly due to the effect that in the formula, the attack needed to overcome the % increase of the +STR/+DEX is inversely proportional that % increase. I have a hunch (I'll check it when I'm less tired) that this fact will be independent of mob level - the only thing that will change it is mob defense (and thus, the constant of proportionality), not the level correction which appears to normalize out of the formula.

Second note: Two handers get a different formula from one-handers, so the general rule shouldn't have been applied like it was by myself.

Third note: The higher the base damage the weapon, the more attack is needed to overcome the smaller increase from fSTR. As better swords become equipped, it's necessary to reevaluate.

Fourth note: As of this writing, it finally donned on me that we're also neglecting the attack boost from the spike necklace as well. Since that will only increase Y, it will only FURTHER decrease the attack at which Spike Necklace is useful.

It looks like, as a general rule, the lower your base damage is, the sooner you should put on the spike necklace. PLD is probably in the portion where we're quickly going to break into it. IMO, it's probably in the low hundreds.

*Edited, Dec 4th 2009 12:27am by Dracoth*

This begins with milich's math. X is our current attack value. Y is the percent increase necessary to beat out Spike Necklace. All calculations assume that the mob is 7 levels higher, as per milich's original math.

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = Y (X/(X/1.25)-.35)=(X/X)*1.25-.35)=.9 [((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-.9]/.9 = Y ((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-.9 = .9Y (X+5)*1.25/(X)-.35-.9=.9Y (1.25X+6.25)/X-1.25=.9Y 1.25X+6.25-1.25X=.9XY 6.25=.9XY 6.25/.9Y=X X=6.94444/Y

Using the final equation, it's easy to see the Attack needed for the percentages being equal.

A note on percent increase:

I calculated the Spike Necklace as the following:

So, without further ado, here's the results.

First, the case (25%) where fSTR doesn't increase base damage.

Accuracy Y X 50 1.5 463 60 1.2 556 70 1.1 648 80 0.9 741 90 0.8 833 95 0.0 999

Base Damage Accuracy Y X 15 50 8.2 085 60 7.9 088 70 7.7 090 80 7.6 091 90 7.5 093 16 50 7.7 090 60 7.5 093 70 7.3 095 80 7.2 097 90 7.1 098 17 50 7.4 094 60 7.1 097 70 7.0 100 80 6.8 102 90 6.7 103 18 50 7.1 098 60 6.8 102 70 6.6 105 80 6.5 107 90 6.4 109 19 50 6.8 103 60 6.5 107 70 6.3 110 80 6.2 112 90 6.1 114 20 50 6.5 107 60 6.2 111 70 6.1 114 80 6.9 117 90 5.8 119

So, a few notes.

First note: The 175 rule is VASTLY out of date for PLD (and is what I think Shintasama was pointing at earlier). This is mostly due to the effect that in the formula, the attack needed to overcome the % increase of the +STR/+DEX is inversely proportional that % increase. I have a hunch (I'll check it when I'm less tired) that this fact will be independent of mob level - the only thing that will change it is mob defense (and thus, the constant of proportionality), not the level correction which appears to normalize out of the formula.

Second note: Two handers get a different formula from one-handers, so the general rule shouldn't have been applied like it was by myself.

Third note: The higher the base damage the weapon, the more attack is needed to overcome the smaller increase from fSTR. As better swords become equipped, it's necessary to reevaluate.

Fourth note: As of this writing, it finally donned on me that we're also neglecting the attack boost from the spike necklace as well. Since that will only increase Y, it will only FURTHER decrease the attack at which Spike Necklace is useful.

It looks like, as a general rule, the lower your base damage is, the sooner you should put on the spike necklace. PLD is probably in the portion where we're quickly going to break into it. IMO, it's probably in the low hundreds.

Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78

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