Need Advice on MDT/MDB GearFollow

First off, what are you gonna be using this for? There are very few mobs (I can think of 2 off-hand) that require you to wear magic defense gear full-time and one of them you won't be meleeing. So wearing -acc gear shouldn't be affecting you for the most part.

Secondly, are you going to have Shell on you? If you're going to have Shellra V on you, that's 24-25% MDT from that alone, which would make your set up very good. Shell IV gives 21% MDT, which would still be a fairly good amount. If you're going to have less than that, however, I would focus on Coral gear over Iron Ram gear, except for maybe the feet. Stacking MDT does more for you than stacking MDB, so if you're not at or close to the 50% MDT cap, go for that instead of MDB unless there's a significant gap between the MDT and MDB you can get in a slot.

Edit: I missed your last question about swapping anything out for HP gear. Until you can hit the MDT cap, don't focus on anything except MDT. After that, get as much MDB as you can, and then focus on HP. There are formulas that allow you to figure out exactly how much damage a specific mob will do with a specific attack if you know all the variables, so if you can figure that out, then you can test to see whether a specific slot would do more for you with HP or MDT/MDB, but in general, focus on the latter.

Edited, Nov 11th 2008 8:26am by Foustian

If you camp a Resentment Cape, you can use that when it's active (I love it for Ultima, always active in Sea).

Other than that, looks like a good plan, HQ the rings and earring whenever you can, but you're already ahead of tons of PLDs that have no MDB setup at all.

Me too!

So? In most cases where you would swap to this kind of set, its either for only a few seconds to absorb an especially large hit, or for something where you'll already subbing /rdm anyway (like jol) and you don't need extra enmity.

You have to remember, wearing a ton of enmity only helps you reach the cap faster. Once you hit the cap, you can take it all off and never notice a difference, even on paladin. (hence why rdm can tank hnms in -enmity gear). What sort of hnm fight are you going to notice the loss of enmity for the very short times you would swap this on? Surely not JoL, or Ouryu, or jorm. Not for bahamut either, assuming your shell doesn't tp burn it. Not on ultima either. The only fight you would wear it fulltime would be JoL, and you can keep hate on him asleep with /rdm in short 20 minute fights.

yeah i jumped ship and should be hadespunky but im not sure if you can update your name. Yeah i could recreate but who cares lol.

Things are going well. No way was I going to do HNM for paladin gear on odin. I dont like a 5 year waiting list. Good to hear from you Chazzy. I miss odin but not its overcrowding. Hades is more relaxed and Ive already got my avalon breastplate. Only another 100m gil and i get my aegis xD

Caveat: I''ve only just recently started getting into this bit of the game, so math could be flawed.

You have two factors to reduce damage from magic attacks (presumably large ones that you want to reduce as much as possible; this setup is only for those specific attacks): MDB and MDT. Base spell damage is divided by MDB and then reduced by MDT%, but as fractions of 256.

Since MDT% is capped at 50% (128/256), and it scales linearly, you focus on that first.

Your baseline: Shell IV (sch, rdm or unmerited whm), Shell V/1 (unlocked whm) or Shell V/5 (capped whm). Those give you 56, 62 and 70 (out of 256), respectively. Thus to cap you need an additional 72, 66 or 58 in gear.

1% = 2
2% = 5
3% = 7
4% = 10
5% = 12
10% = 25


Starting with the easiest, Iron Ram Lance (10%).

Remaining: 47, 41, 33

Pair of Coral Rings gives 14. Pair of Merman's gives 20.

Remaining:
NQ: 33, 27, 19
HQ: 27, 21, 13

Pair of Coral Earrings gives 4. One Merman's gives 5. Pair of Merman's gives 10. I'll use the 1 Merman value.

Remaining:
NQ: 28, 22, 14
HQ: 22, 16, 8

For body you can use Coral Scale Mail/+1 (3%/4%) or, if you're really lucky/well off, Avalon Breastplate or Valhalla Breastplate at 5% each.

Remaining:
NQ (CSM): 21, 15, 7
HQ (CSM): 15, 9, 1
HQ (CSM+1): 12, 6, -2
HHQ: 10, 4, -4


If you're a First Lieutenant in Assault you can get a Lieutenant's Sash for another 2%.

Remaining:
NQ (CSM): 16, 10, 2
HQ (CSM): 10, 4, -4
HQ (CSM+1): 7, 1, -7
HHQ: 5, -1, -9 (overkill)


At this point the Resentment Cape (5%) is only needed if you're only getting Shell IV, or if you get Shell V/1 and are using NQ rings. Otherwise you'd be better off using the Lamia Mantle/+1 for the MDB.



From cost/benefit perspective, if you have a whm with capped Shell V, you'd want:

Iron Ram Lance
Merman Ring x2
Coral Scale Mail
Merman Earring or Lieutenant's Sash (Merman Earring + Resolute Belt reduces damage slightly more, but HP earring + Lieutenant's Sash will always (as far as I can tell) provide more headroom for damage even accounting for the difference in damage taken.)

That would put you at 127/256, where 128 is cap. You would be hard pressed to save you more than 10 HP from capping it from that point, so it's better to add +HP or MDB gear elsewhere.

Avalon Breastplate or Valhalla Breastplate would negate the need for the earring or sash, so you'd only need 4 pieces total.

If the Iron Ram body piece has at least 5 MDB, you'll want to use that instead of the CSM and shift the difference in MDT% to the earrings and waist.


If you're working only with Shell IV, you'd want:

Iron Ram Lance
Merman Ring x2
Coral Scale Mail
Merman Earring + Coral/Merman Earring or Lieutenant's Sash + Merman Earring
Resentment Cape


The cheapest route (or if you just can't find the HQs for sale), assuming capped Shell V, and considering AN and IS items as 'free':

Iron Ram Lance
Coral Ring x2 (10k each)
Coral Earring x2 (10k each)
Coral Scale Mail (35k)
Lieutenant's Sash

Which puts you at 125.


Any of the above combinations (except for Shell IV setup) leaves you free to use all current Iron Ram pieces plus the Lamia bow & mantle for +MDB. Not much extra room for straight +HP (possible exceptions to above gear choices: Taru RSE2 hands probably beat the MDB of the Iron Ram gloves, and Cassie Earring may possibly be better than the MDT% of a Merman's), but you could use a Raptor Strap +1 for 15 (and +mnd if you're fighting Ultima; otherwise look for the +20 HP strap), various earrings, various neck pieces, and of course the Iron Ram pieces and Lieutenant's Saph all have +HP on them too.

If you're wondering about Askar feet for additional MDT%, you should almost always be better off using the Iron Ram Greaves.



The value I placed on pure HP in comparisons above is based on the spell damage of Citadel Buster with an estimated 2100 base (hedged slightly on the high side) and double weather boost of 25% (2625 total), as it's the highest damage single magic attack I know of outside of Mijin Gakures in Besieged, Atral Flows in Dynamis, and Meteor (and I'm just not sure what the Meteor values are).

Your build listed is hardly a "top notch" build.

Change the Coral Scale Mail to Avalon, 1 Merman Earring to ethereal, change the Coral Gauntlers to IR hands, change both rings to mermans rings, change resentment to Lamia mantle +1, and change Askar to either IR Boots or the Solea if you're lucky and have them.

There you go. -25% magic damage and 4 or 5 more MDB (5 if you have the rare ass solea) than in your setup, while also getting 3% of the magic damage you take back into your MP pool.

This setup is also easier to get, since avalon is more common than coral scale mail +1 (at least on my server), IR Hands is easier than the gauntlets (even harder to find than the body), mermans rings are cheaper and easier to get than either of the rings you listed, Resentment Cape may not even work some of the time depending on where you are and how the conquest played out, and askar sucks compared to IR for this build.

Just because something is rarer doesn't make it better.

Avalon Breastplate doesn't require an HNMLS... It requires an HNMLS selling one on the AH. As more people continue to do the Doomvoid fights, we'll see even more of these hit the AH. If on your server it's not that common yet (on Leviathan, there have been 3 sold so far...), it will become more common than the CSM, since not many people even craft those at all these days.

Well Reasonably were taking 800k if u find +1 vrs 6 mil. hopefully to come down but by how much.

jlsnyder: You're over the MDT% cap by 4/256. The gear set was probably built for when the tier 2 merits capped at 3 instead of 5. Shell V caps at 70 now (I just confirmed) rather than 66.

You don't need an HNMLS to cap MDT%. It's very simple:

Shell V (capped): 70
Iron Ram Lance: 25
Merman Ring x2: 10 each
Coral Scale Mail (NQ): 7
Lt. Sash (or Merman's Earring if you're not high enough in assault): 5

Total: 127 (max of 128) / 256. Any other piece you add for MDT% would be better used for MDB or HP (though CSM+1 would let you stay capped (128) with a whm with 4 Shell V merits).

If your whm only has 3 Shell V merits (or just 1-2 merits if you have CSM+1), add a Merman's Earring to get 128 cap.

If you get an Avalon Breastplate, replace the Lt. Sash with the Resolute Belt for the same MDT% and 2 more MDB.

Iron Ram armor set plus Lamia Mantle +1 plus Lamian Kaman (NQ) is 17 MDB (very easy to get, and more than the 16 MDB you list). Lamian Kaman +1 and Ataractic Solea would each give another +1.


Asdrabael: Avalon Breastplate on my server started at 3mil, jumped to 7mil, and most recently sold for 6.5mil. Bazarre listings on FFXIAH are mostly 6-8mil. I'd be ecstatic to see one for 1.5mil. It's a nice piece to have, but definitely not easy on the pocketbook on most servers.

Here's the set that I use for CB. It gives me -25% MDT and +10 MDB. I'm still working on obtaining a Resolute belt for more MDB and waiting on the IR Body to come out for even more. I'm fairly certain my main Ls Whm has atleast 3 merits into ShellV. Infact, I know she does because I just asked her to merit to at minimum to lv3.

We just picked up a newer Whm to the shell, and I believe he's going to go 5/5 ShellV so i'm going to be sure he's in tank party for Ultima fights so I can toss some -MDT and add more +MDB for hopefully better results.

I bazaar my Iron Ram Lance and Axe Grip for max gil if I don't want to swap it in.

I think the idea behind ethereal earring is that upgrading Coral > Avalon means you gain 2% MDT. That's 2% you can potentially remove from somewhere else. Ethereal is one of your options. It's got 15HP in addition to the mp return, making it a "total package" type of swap.

I just remove the ending quotes around whatever armor I don't want to equip.

This is what's in my about to get hit by magic macro. I don't full-time any of this gear, except the bow and sometimes the earring.

Weapon: Iron Ram Lance (-10%) (not usually in the macro for TP concerns)
Range: Lamia Kaman (1 MDB) (full time this usually, unless fighting Aquans)

Head: Iron Ram Sallet(3 MDB)
Ear1: Merman's Earring (-2%) (Could get a 2nd)
Body: Coral Scale Mail (-3%)
Hands: Iron Ram Dastanas (2 MDB)
Ring1: Merman's Ring (-4%)
Ring2: Merman's Ring (-4%)
Back: Lamia Mantle +1 (4 MDB)
Waist: Lieutenant's Sash (-2%)
Legs: Crimson Cuisses
Feet: Crimson Greaves
Neck: Jeweled Collar +10 resist to 6 elements

-25% MDT 10 MDB +25/+35 element resists

The 2 Crimson are stand in pieces until I finish getting Iron Ram gear and Askar feet. Completing the Iron Ram set drops element resists by 10 and raises MDB by 7. Askar feet would be more of a full-time piece for kiting rather than going in the emergency magic damage reduction macro.


Although, it would help put away the Lance and get back to Sword and Shield...
Use palmerin shield + sword and askar feet, MDT drops to 19% (21% if I get a 2nd Merman's Earring), MDB drops to 14, physical damage reduction drops to 4%, and element resists drop by 5. But you get back the benefits of having a shield for toe-to-toe tanking; spell interruption negation, blocked physical damage, reprisal, shield bash, etc.


The beginnings of an ultimate mixed damage reduction build short of relic/mythic and latent effect/nation control gear would be:

Hauteclaire -7% physical
Palmerin Shield -2% physical/magical
Range: Lamia Kama +1 2 MDB
Head: Iron Ram Sallet 3 MDB
Ears: Merman's Earring -2% x2
Body: Avalon Breastplate -5%
Hands: Iron Ram Dastanas 2 MDB
Ring1: Defending Ring -10% physical/magical
Ring2: ???
Back: Lamia Mantle +1 4 MDB
Waist: Lieutenant's Sash -2%
Legs: Iron Ram Hose 4 MDB
Feet: Askar Gambieras -2% physical/magical
Neck: Jeweled Collar +10 resist to 6 elements
Set bonus: +10 resist to all elements

-25% MDT
-21% PDT
15 MDB

If sword/shield not needed, could swap on Earth Staff or the Lance. The Lance would even allow for the use of Jelly Ring without uncapping MDT (-28% MDT, -27% PDT). And you could consider ditching the earrings and/or belt for other stats.

With E staff, you'd want a Merman's Ring to keep MDT capped (-27% MDT, -32% PDT). And can ditch one earring or the belt for other stats.

Minerva's ring is also possible I guess if you want to get picky. The more you're exceeding the 25% MDT mark, the more room you have to remove smaller -% magic damage items (Merman's Earrings or Lieuentat's Sash) to choose alternatives with MDB (like Resolute Belt), element/status resists (Black/Flawless Ribbon), -% physical damage (Darksteel +1 gear if willing to trade down MDB), or Ethereal Earring for those who have it. And lastly, where MDB and damage -% items aren't available, INT is an option for reducing damage from and increasing resistance to black magic spells.


The order of preference is going to be MDT > MDB > INT. Resist stats are not so useful unless you're building for a specific element which you can't do with all this damage reducing gear. But for a general purpose emergency macro, multi-element resists are good where you can't get something better. Odds are you'll at least have an appropriate barspell from your healer(s) most of the time, so adding a little bit extra to it is going to help get occasional resists.

Edited, Dec 30th 2008 2:25am by madrone

Necrobumping (3 months, I assume that makes it necro'ing) this to request it be added to the useful links sticky. There's a lot of really good discussion in this thread, and some of us newer endgame pld's could really use this to help make smart bang for the buck decisions on MDT/MDB builds. If I somehow missed it in the sticky, nvm, but I looked through right before posting this and didnt see any discussions on MDT/MDB builds at all. Thanks in advance for consideration :)


~Cwell

PS What really makes this one shine is the discussion on how much mdt is needed depending on your support. Anyway, thanks again.