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MP merits for Galka?Follow

#27 Jun 07 2008 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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SirGanon wrote:
It feels like a moot point to keep playing the race card, but that's really the only argument I can make, since that is entirely what the original post was about. All I can really say is that in everything endgame I have done (which is, pretty much all engame mobs, aside from maybe 1 or 2) I have never EVER needed, wished I had, or died solely due to a lack of 80HP. I really didn't think the HP/MP ratio from Galka to Hume was that big, but if people really feel that strongly about 80HP, then i guess it is.

1600 HP, without equipping any items solely for HP is awesome, and I love it. I would not turn down more HP, but it gets to a point where a mob tearing through 1600+ HP before I can cure myself or be cured, just does not happen. And I feel what you said for HP as buffer holds true for MP. Yeah its only 50 MP, but that's still more time before I need to pop that Chivalry or ask for Devotion.

So yes I can see where HP Merits could greatly help/save another race, but I honestly have just not had that problem as a Galka. It all just comes down to race, again. I'm perfectly comfortoable in my HP, just as other races are in their MP, I'm sure.


It feels like a moot point, but are you saying you've never died endgame? Are you saying there's never been a point where maybe, just maybe, having an extra 50 HP would have allowed that Cure V to get through?

There's been plenty of times I've lived to tank an entire battle where I would have died had it not been for the HP merits and additional HP I've equipped from gear. I've co-tanked with plenty of Galkas with full HP merits who have narrowly survived due to their massive HP advantage.

Just to all the Galkas reading this, when you're pushed to the side for the Elvaan with more HP than you because you decided to merit MP instead of HP, realize you lost your biggest advantage as a Galka PLD by making the choice to merit MP instead.

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#28 Jun 07 2008 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am galka and I have 8/8 HP merits.

I have seen my HP drop below the 10 mark a couple times now with these, and several times below that 80 mark.

Sometimes, **** happens. Man am I glad I have those HP merits :)
#29 Jun 07 2008 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'm a galka pld, and honestly, the max mp doesn't bother me too much outside of ballista. (although more hp would be good in that too) While playing galka, you learn not to use all of your mp at once, if the refresh rate is good, thats all that matters... unless you wanna cast raise
#30 Jun 07 2008 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just to all the Galkas reading this, when you're pushed to the side for the Elvaan with more HP than you because you decided to merit MP instead of HP, realize you lost your biggest advantage as a Galka PLD by making the choice to merit MP instead.


WHAT?

are you serious?

Put a Galka and a Elf Side By Side
Equipped the exact same way
Galka does 8 Mp
Elf does 8 hp

That elf still isnt going to have More Hp
the Galka will be +41 HPs and the Elf will be +43 Mp

And the Galka will hold the sword like a warrior instead of a Sissy, Galka gonna win out everytime for that alone : P
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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#31 Jun 07 2008 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
Quote:
Serket Ring/Ether Ring


O.o

So in the same breath Don’t use Mp merits because you can equip rings that will give you the Mp at the Cost of HP?

What sense does that make?

That just comes across as a total hypocritical statement to make. Don’t lvl Mp because you need more survivability. You need the 80 Hps to Survive.

But you could put on Serket and Ether that Sacrifices you Hp to give you more MP.

NO NO NO... make yourself more Survivable by getting the Mp in merits that way you don’t need the -hp gear to make up for your lack of Mp and you can then still pile on +hp gear and +enmity gear and still have greater Survivability then the other races playing pld.



No, it's called start a fight with those on if you're so worried about the 80 MP, and macro them out as soon as you've spent that MP.

If you're like me and realize that 80 MP is worthless for the most part, you wouldn't even bother with the whole Serket Ring/Ether Ring at start, preferring to max your Haste% and Enmity+ from gear the majority of the time, while swapping in Magic Defense Bonus/Resist sets as necessary. The great thing about Galka is keeping a much higher base HP while swapping in those other sets.

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#32 Jun 07 2008 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
Quote:
Just to all the Galkas reading this, when you're pushed to the side for the Elvaan with more HP than you because you decided to merit MP instead of HP, realize you lost your biggest advantage as a Galka PLD by making the choice to merit MP instead.


WHAT?

are you serious?

Put a Galka and a Elf Side By Side
Equipped the exact same way
Galka does 8 Mp
Elf does 8 hp

That elf still isnt going to have More Hp
the Galka will be +41 HPs and the Elf will be +43 Mp

And the Galka will hold the sword like a warrior instead of a Sissy, Galka gonna win out everytime for that alone : P


Right, and there aren't people with better gear who will be able to surpass that 41 HP and have a higher HP than you...

I know you said equipped the same way, but if you don't have 3/5 Homam, you're going to get eclipsed by the Elvaan who does if you choose to merit MP instead of HP. It's that simple.




Edited, Jun 7th 2008 10:46am by ScarShiva
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#33 Jun 07 2008 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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again lets get back on track

I agree to lvl HP merits - lets just make sure we are all on the same page.

We are talking about a lvl 75 pld as a first time job. The +mp is gonna benifit this galka more than any +hp will do at any point in game at this time.

I don't really know any hnmls that makes a first job 75 PLD be the main Tank. Due to lack of experinece lack of knowledge.

this Galka probably doesnt have a whole lot accomplished in the rest of the game.

If he is gonna go do Capped fights The +mp is gonna do wonders for him/her.

So far the only fight that I wish I had more Hp is AV and how often does that happen for me not a whole lot.

Lets look at another scenario your in a party that has a Blm cast a AM spell way before they should have that takes hate away. (and JA are down)

The Mob hits the Blm you are now gonna Cure the Blm to get Hate

Cure 4 didnt take the hate away. You cant cast another large Cure spell because you don't have any more Mp. Because you have already Cast Flash and a Cure 3 on your self.

You now have a Dead Blm. If you had the xtra Mp you could have dropped another Cure 3 or 4 and probably got hate back and brought the hate back under control.

All of these things happen in game.

How many Times has it happened that you didnt have enough HP more times than it did me as a Galka.

How many times did someone else die because I didnt have the Mp more times than I have ever wished that I had that xtra Hp.

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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#34 Jun 07 2008 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
again lets get back on track

I agree to lvl HP merits - lets just make sure we are all on the same page.

We are talking about a lvl 75 pld as a first time job. The +mp is gonna benifit this galka more than any +hp will do at any point in game at this time.

I don't really know any hnmls that makes a first job 75 PLD be the main Tank. Due to lack of experinece lack of knowledge.

this Galka probably doesnt have a whole lot accomplished in the rest of the game.

If he is gonna go do Capped fights The +mp is gonna do wonders for him/her.

So far the only fight that I wish I had more Hp is AV and how often does that happen for me not a whole lot.

Lets look at another scenario your in a party that has a Blm cast a AM spell way before they should have that takes hate away. (and JA are down)

The Mob hits the Blm you are now gonna Cure the Blm to get Hate

Cure 4 didnt take the hate away. You cant cast another large Cure spell because you don't have any more Mp. Because you have already Cast Flash and a Cure 3 on your self.

You now have a Dead Blm. If you had the xtra Mp you could have dropped another Cure 3 or 4 and probably got hate back and brought the hate back under control.

All of these things happen in game.

How many Times has it happened that you didnt have enough HP more times than it did me as a Galka.

How many times did someone else die because I didnt have the Mp more times than I have ever wished that I had that xtra Hp.



Every time I've died, I've probably have lived for at least an extra 10-20 seconds as a Galka. In an endgame scenario, 10-20 seconds is a long time.

As far as the BLM pulling hate, not going to happen unless your DDs aren't worth their alliance spot. BLMs these days are nothing more than Stun/Cure bots. True story.

But, let's play along. I'd pop some Mulsums if my MP was that low I couldn't cast a Cure spell on the BLM. Problem solved.
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#35 Jun 07 2008 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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if I have homan HP merits is where its at.

Pop a Muslim or 2 and cast (problem solved) only if the Mage was a Galka.

Again We give advise based on The Ultimate perfect scenario Endgmae PLD.

Give advise thats more reasonable and more helpfull to the game at this point in playing.

He joins an ls that has an Aegis and Ares Pld I dont care what He does they are not unseating that pld from number one until That Person either Quits, Transfers Servers, gets hacked, or becomes equipped the same as that Pld.


get the mp now it will help more in the here and now.
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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#36 Jun 07 2008 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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and oh yeah Hey Scar did you miss me?

I missed you : P

Glad to be back
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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#37 Jun 07 2008 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
if I have homan HP merits is where its at.

Pop a Muslim or 2 and cast (problem solved) only if the Mage was a Galka.

Again We give advise based on The Ultimate perfect scenario Endgmae PLD.

Give advise thats more reasonable and more helpfull to the game at this point in playing.

He joins an ls that has an Aegis and Ares Pld I dont care what He does they are not unseating that pld from number one until That Person either Quits, Transfers Servers, gets hacked, or becomes equipped the same as that Pld.


get the mp now it will help more in the here and now.


Meh, you're not going to get accepted to an LS like that to begin with unless you have another 75 job (such as BRD) you can bring to events.
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#38 Jun 07 2008 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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I was accepted into a LS like that and I was accepted without having /nin and no other 75 (not even close).

At the time that I was accepted We had 2 aegis Plds. And I was 3rd on the list of Plds.

I was responsible for Smns on Kirin fights and I was Main on farming/Gods to learn how to tank in Endgame.

Thats how I got Wlegs so fast into my short time of playing.

That Ls broke and I joined 3 other ls's and at no point did another drop come my way.

I ran into the aegis wearing pld again and saw that most of the original team had gotten back together.

And I was brought back in. At this point I sit at 75 Pld 75 Sam /nin /war /thf /rdm.

but now there multiple ares plds (some not even 75 yet >.<)(one w/ a aegis and 1-2 w/ hauticlaire) so I am doing sam now but when it comes time for land kings i still am called into the game as a pld.

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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#39 Jun 07 2008 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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Let's face reality. 99% of players aren't going to ding 75 and immediately go out looking for fights against Nidhogg. Being in an HNMLS is a huge time investment if you plan to make the multitude of HNM camps that most of such LS camp each and every day. Most of that time could better be used preparing yourself to fill the role the LS will need you for.

For example, most endgame LS will ask for an application, usually done over their personal website. On that application, they are going to ask what jobs you have to 75 and what merits you have, among other considerations such as mission status and crafting skills. If you're a brand new 75pld with 0 merits, odds are the members are going to vote against your joining since you're not bringing much to the table.

My recommendation:
Get to level 75 and bust your *** earning merits. Don't stop getting merits until you have everything finished. If you need a break from earning merits, then work on completing any missions you have to finish. Get ZMs done. Get PMs done. Get ToAU done. Go campaign battle and earn rank and allied notes (while earning merit points) to get the Iron Ram Sallet and Iron Ram Dastanas.

Either way, the whole deal with MP merits and why most people suggest against them is simply because once the fight starts you should never reach full MP again, except maybe after a Chivalry or Devotion. Having 80 extra MP that's nothing more than "blacked" out space at the end of your MP bar does you absolutely no good whatsoever. However, that 80 HP can be restored every time you cure yourself or someone cures you, without any need for messing around with gear.

Ultimately, HP>MP simply because you'll see full HP far more often than you'll ever see full MP.
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#40 Jun 07 2008 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
I was accepted into a LS like that and I was accepted without having /nin and no other 75 (not even close).

At the time that I was accepted We had 2 aegis Plds. And I was 3rd on the list of Plds.

I was responsible for Smns on Kirin fights and I was Main on farming/Gods to learn how to tank in Endgame.

Thats how I got Wlegs so fast into my short time of playing.

That Ls broke and I joined 3 other ls's and at no point did another drop come my way.

I ran into the aegis wearing pld again and saw that most of the original team had gotten back together.

And I was brought back in. At this point I sit at 75 Pld 75 Sam /nin /war /thf /rdm.

but now there multiple ares plds (some not even 75 yet >.<)(one w/ a aegis and 1-2 w/ hauticlaire) so I am doing sam now but when it comes time for land kings i still am called into the game as a pld.



There's a good chance you were invited to an LS like that simply because you were a Galka and so their main tanks could get a break from the joke we call Genbu, etc. Meriting HP would only look good on your application if you're applying for a PLD job- even if it's 2/8 HP, letting them know you intend to max that category out eventually.




Edited, Jun 7th 2008 1:40pm by ScarShiva
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#41 Jun 07 2008 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Just to all the Galkas reading this, when you're pushed to the side for the Elvaan with more HP than you because you decided to merit MP instead of HP, realize you lost your biggest advantage as a Galka PLD by making the choice to merit MP instead.


Lol, Sorry. I don't know what the people on your server are like, but if anyone aside from maybe a taru or mithra with no HP gear/merits is pushed aside from tanking, there are many sad, stupid people on your server.

And I never said I've never died in endgame; though no, aside from Dynamis I rarely do. I have total confidence in my mages, support, and co-tanks. All that will help me survive a **** of a lot longer than 50 HP. For me, MP=hate. No kidding more HP = more survivability, but that doesn't mean anything when I'm not the one holding hate. Like you said, if 80 HP from merits has saved your ***, then I guess having an extra 100-200 base. or however much more HP Galka has over a hume, saves me regularly, without me noticing. I don't usually think in terms of "Wow, I lived with 130 HP, thank God I'm not a hume!"

Again, I never said HP merits were bad, but but disregarding MP and whoring HP is just silly, especially for a Galka. It's getting hard to argue the point, since this is quickly turning into a 'Nuh-uh/Yeah-huh!' argument. So I'll just offer this: Neither HP nor MP merits are game breaking, but for any Galka needing an opinion, I'm 3/5 HP/MP Merits, and I feel it puts me at the perfect spot for my gear/endgame duties.

Edited, Jun 7th 2008 4:48pm by SirGanon
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#42 Jun 07 2008 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Is it just me or even with a max merited shell5 I sometimes get hit with citadel buster for like 100 more then my max hp even if I push it to 2150+. Annoys the **** out of me. ; ;

Of course the kinds of gear I wear to get that high would make a galka's mp near 0 lol...


The others nailed this one but in most situations you won't need megamax hp. Hp merits are there to mostly let you use other things in other slots while still trying to reach a comfortable amount of max hp. For most things you won't really have a need for more then 1500-1600 hp, though things like kirin or proto ultima you'd want a little more to be safer at times.

That being said I'd be annoyed to **** and back if I couldn't cast more then two cure4s back to back from full mp...

~Ori
#43 Jun 07 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Less max HP gear and more MDB and MDT gear?
#44 Jun 07 2008 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Well I didn't write that thought out completely. If I'm at 1800hp it could hit for 1900. If I'm at 1900 then it does 2000. 2150 -> pops for 2250. Usually I can survive with a good amount of hp to spare with just the shell but it's still annoying yet funny that it'll one-up me every so often like that when shell is supposed to be a flat reduction in magic dmg anyway... Just random bad luck sometimes (I remember on ventrilo my whm was cursing at how I got one-shotted with a freshly casted shell5 and my megamaxed hp, I laughed hard).

Oh well, didn't mean to multi-track drift the thread but just pointed out that there is at least one thing that can purely overcome any max hp with odd randomness for the unprepared. Just try to be more prepared to deal with those situations when you get there so your whm/team/etc don't roll their eyes.


~Ori
#45 Jun 07 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Wow such a great debate over this.

Ok so here it is. I am not in a Endgame LS and from what you guys have mentioned it does not look like I will not get in one anytime soon.

From what I have read, I can see both sides of the story. Coming from me 143 base mp at lvl 75 sucks. So I think I will go 4/4 on hp/mp this way if I do get into a Endgame LS I dont have to make up 8hp merits but only 4.

But maybe you guys can help me further in this by explaining to me the following. What is the difference between the -hp to +mp gear like the electrum rings, to the Convert HP to MP like the Serket ring.

I know the electrum rings takes my max hp down and boosts my max mp up.
So gear swapping the electrum rings is no good when you want max hp because when you take them off your max hp has just been pushed up but the amount you have is the same. Will this be the case on the serket ring as well.
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#46 Jun 07 2008 at 6:23 PM Rating: Default
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#47 Jun 07 2008 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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When an item has +mp/-hp it will always add the written amount of mp regardless of how much hp was actually subtracted while a convert hp->mp ring will take into account how much hp you actually have.

For example, say you're weakened and only have 2hp. An electrum ring will give you +20mp while a serket or ether ring will give 1mp since you can't be pushed to or below 0hp through gear.

Hope that answers your question.

As far as hp or mp merits, honestly you should be more then able to give yourself a good answer for whatever it is you do or have access to. That hp buffer is quite handy at times and at other times a little bit of a waste. You shouldn't really need more then 1500 to tank most things (kirin and ultima are special but you can be prepared for them in different ways so this hp limit doesn't really have to budge all that much). If you don't have access to certain gears then you could buff your hp a bit to try and help by having some extra slack to take hits but it won't work as well as being prepared the right way.

For galka before sea access and homam/loq I'd imagine it'd be annoying to have so little mp. You do have mp items for macroing, like rse1 and 2, but that could be annoying and troublesome at times. The less I have to macro things around the better I can deal with ps2's wonderful limitations... but if you're on pc/etc then you have a bit more options and ease of use.

It's usually when you reach the point where max mp is no longer a concern that max hp merits are more viable. You don't automagically get there when you hit lv75 for the first time; it can take a while for you to either start up or join a sea static, get sea, make/join a limbus group and work your way to homam/loq.

At least wturban is easy to get and a highly useful thing for plds and even moreso for galka getting things rolling.

~Ori

Edited, Jun 8th 2008 1:43am by orinthia
#48 Jun 07 2008 at 11:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's the deal. Merit your character how you like, but I feel HP merits are the best bet, regardless of race. If you want MP, merit Chivalry 5/5 once you're able to this upcoming update. It's as simple as that.

We know how the Enmity system works for the most part now, and a Galka PLD has more real MP to play with than a TaruTaru ever did before all these updates. What does that mean?

Imagine a world where there is no Auto-Refresh, no Evoker's Roll, no Sanction/Sigil bonuses, no Devotion, no Ares Cuirass. That's how I grew up playing PLD, and I had plenty of MP to do my job as a Hume.

With all the updates to improve PLD, somehow that max MP doesn't look quite so attractive anymore. Max HP GEAR doesn't either. It's all about /NIN, Haste, +Enmity and Refresh rate these days. Being able to wear all that gear, even if it's -HP (Hydra Haubert), and still be at a high level of HP is an incredible thing. Again, a Galka has more MP to play with than a Tarutaru ever did pre-update.

I so wish I could tank as a Galka with full HP merits, an Aegis, and a Gjallarhabard. I'd be able to macro in full Magic Defense Bonus/Resist sets, etc. while remaining at a very high level of HP. Being able to completely swap out HP gear when a WHM Cure V bombs me for no reason to cure back some of that hate while remaining at a comfortable level of HP just adds a tremendous amount of safety to any group activity, nice for when you're having an off day.

The few times you really need MP, you can always pop a med of some kind. You can't use Hi-pots when you're dead though.

And this is to SirGanon- you could always just merit those HP and start off each battle and each Devotion with a Serket Ring instead of Hercules, losing only +3 Enmity from one of your rings, and get generally the same effect as you do from those 5 MP merits.

If you made a personal choice to merit the MP 5/8 there, great. Do me a favor though. Post a screenshot of every death that occurs, and tell us how it happened. I'll bet it will never be because of lack of MP!






Edited, Jun 8th 2008 3:53am by ScarShiva
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#49 Jun 08 2008 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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TheRealPeleus wrote:
Ok so here it is. I am not in a Endgame LS and from what you guys have mentioned it does not look like I will not get in one anytime soon.

From what I have read, I can see both sides of the story. Coming from me 143 base mp at lvl 75 sucks. So I think I will go 4/4 on hp/mp this way if I do get into a Endgame LS I dont have to make up 8hp merits but only 4.


4/4 HP/MP sounds like a good choice for you. There's more to this game than standing in front of an HNM with an alliance of mages at your back. Don't buy into Scarshiva's hyperbole. Even at an endgame event, that extra MP at the start of a fight or from Devotion/Chivalry will prove useful at least as often as a few more max HP will save a galkan's life.
#50 Jun 08 2008 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I am not in a Endgame LS and from what you guys have mentioned it does not look like I will not get in one anytime soon.


>< That's not true. They've confused you.
When they spoke about "having to have good merits to get into an hnm ls" or whatever they were for the most part talking about big, well established lnkshells which already have well-geared tanks. Those kinds of linkshell are not likely to be interested in fresh 75s. However everyone starts somewhere, and its usually in a smaller linkshell doing some sky and smaller HNMs. Eventually those linkshells will grow big (taking you along with them) or they will split, hopefully when have enough experience to be of more interest to bigger shells.

The idea that you need several 75 jobs or maxed out merits or pimped gear or wtf-aegis to start endgame is absolutely rubbish. Its just looking at a different kind of linkshell.

When I joined my first endgame shell I was 72pld (my highest job). It was brand new and very small and I was one of only 2 pld and 2 nin tanks. The leader taught me all the basics of sky and tanking gods, and I was shoved in front of Seiryu at lvl72. Yeah I broke Shadowbind and died 7 times, but it was worth it xD

Rock on endgame!

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#51 Jun 08 2008 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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merit the way you want to... period...at least with this thread you got to see every Paladin has different way of Tanking and mindset. Merit is a Personal choice to how your game play experience is and how you plan to play as a PLD. good luck! /salute
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