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MP merits for Galka?Follow

#52 Jun 08 2008 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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And this is to SirGanon- you could always just merit those HP and start off each battle and each Devotion with a Serket Ring instead of Hercules, losing only +3 Enmity from one of your rings, and get generally the same effect as you do from those 5 MP merits.


Aaaaaaand that would be different from just having the 5 MP merits... how? I'd still be down the 50 HP and up 50 MP, and only lose 3 Enmity, 1 inventory slot and 500k(?) in the process, all to satisfy someone who doesn't believe in MP merits. Wow that sounds... asinine, and unecessary.

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merit the way you want to... period...at least with this thread you got to see every Paladin has different way of Tanking and mindset. Merit is a Personal choice to how your game play experience is and how you plan to play as a PLD. good luck! /salute


This wins, I meritteed 5 MP, and I like it.
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#53 Jun 08 2008 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been reading this thread, taking everything into account and mulling it over before responding again.

In the end, it depends on what you do. If you're not a serious endgame PLD, it really doesn't matter what you merit. If you're not doing fights where a lot of HP is going to save you, it really doesn't matter what you merit.

If you don't tank endgame much, but you tend to solo, do small things with a few friends, etc., the MP merits are probably a better choice.

If you are, however, an endgame tank, Scar is correct that max MP doesn't matter, it's all about Refresh rate, which you rely mostly on your support for. In turn, your support relies on you to stay alive and keep hate, and part of this is having enough HP to survive anything, part is having the ability to keep hate locked on you or you and your co-tanks. While having MP to spam cures for hate helps you with your level of enmity, your alliance can pace itself to your hate level, but they can't do much when you die from an attack that more HP could have caused you to survive.

Does Galka get enough HP to survive most things with just base HP and normal tanking gear? Most of the time
Does Galka get enough MP to Flash and Cure, assuming they have basic Refresh? Absolutely

Unfortunately, "Most of the time" doesn't cut it, if you're alive most of the time, and dead some of the time, it doesn't matter if you have 100MP or 800MP, you're still useless when you're dead.

Also, SirGanon, what Scar meant was that you can equip some MP gear to start a fight out with more MP, spam cure yourself for hate, then ditch that MP gear in favor of normal tanking gear. This allows you to get some good CE built up early without dumping your MP pool, you're just using the MP in gear that you brought along. Do the same thing before Chivalry, and you got a lot of extra MP without having to merit it, and repeat HP merits allow you to survive things like Citadel Buster, Byakko spamming Diaga > Claw Cyclone, etc.

If you do endgame, you will get gear that gives good MP boosts along with other tanking stats, such as Homam, Loquacious Earring, even the Walahra Turban (which isn't an endgame drop I know).

Edit: Also, comments about spending money, I guarantee every decent Melee has spent way more than your average PLD. We're lucky that we can tank at the most basic level in cheap gear, but excelling at the job requires some situational builds that take time and money to accrue.

Edited, Jun 8th 2008 3:57pm by NCCoda
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#54 Jun 09 2008 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Live in denial as long as you want, Sir Ganondorf...

No, this is not your Galka!


... but this game isn't the Legend of Zelda.

And, besides, even if it was, Link's got the better idea concerning HP merits anyways.

Link




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#55 Jun 09 2008 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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how is it living in denial?

in this game when it comes to end game pld. Pld is a COOKIE CUTTER JOB!! as is every other job in the game (YOU PHAIL YOU DONT HAVE ETC ETC ETC)

just look at our Guides and every equipment question there is out there every pld strives to wear the exact same gear in the exact same scenario. I mean just look at the beatings a pld takes if they want to turtle up... You are not playing pld exactly like everyone else YOU SUX!!!

So lets take the top Plds in each of the top HNMLS's You will find that They are all geared 97.9% the same way.

and when they are standing next to each other the only difference your gonna see is the difference in HP and MP and the Galka is still gonna have more HP than any other pld. Taru is still gonna have More Mp.

NO ONE and i mean NO ONE disagrees with 8/8 HP grants more Survivablity.
Is pld the only job your ever gonna play.. No. As a new pld to the endgame scene your gonna see there are a lot of different things to do that Pld really just plain out SUCKS at. Most of Salvage, Assault. Your gonna be asked to lvl something else if you want to participate in other things.

What is gonna be more usefull to you in the rest of the Game. Mp Merits.

I was the only one with pld this weekend for a run at Aspid. We got claim And I took hate and almost instantly was out of MP. used chiv and continued to hold hate. With the refresh rate that I had I was able to cast Flash almost as soon as the timer was up. But soon found myself loosing hate to the nin and not being able to regain it. It wasnt until i got enough for a Cure4 to drop on a BLM that I was able to start making a dent on Hate threshold again. Finally after a 2nd Cover and enough for 2 cure 4 on nin did I have hate back.

Aspid spawned at such a weird time (for our ls) that there was no Whm no Brd only one Rdm and a lot of Blm, No thf no /thf.

so all I kept thinking to myself was man I wish I had had some more MP to control hate with.

Hp never became an issue while fighting it (again its aspid i didnt expect to get one shotted there but aspid did get a 3 hit in that took me down to <100 hps and other race would have been killed.

And there are some great /sub options for Pld that are a lot of fun to play /rdm (WONDERFULL TIME TO PLAY!!!! highly advise if u havnt tried this take the time to lvl enhancing magic) /blu /bst all of these subjobs when using you will enjoy the extra mp.

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Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#56 Jun 09 2008 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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ccstwocents wrote:
Is pld the only job your ever gonna play.. No.


Rather presumptuous of you to assume that people aren't going to simply level PLD and be happy with that job.

ccstwocents wrote:
What is gonna be more usefull to you in the rest of the Game. Mp Merits.


Also presumptuous to assume that any other job they level will require MP. Suppose they level WAR to 75? How much good are those MP merits gonna do there? How about MNK? RNG? THF? SAM?

There are PLENTY of jobs that have absolutely no need for MP whatsoever.

OK, so you get 8 MP merits and have 80 additional MP. That gives you enough for one Flash, one Cure III, and one lolCure. Then it's completely spent. If you couldn't maintain your base MP, then the extra 80 MP would have just been a blacked-out space at the end of your MP bar, completely and utterly useless to you. Without a solid refresh rate, those merits will never amount to anything other than a small boost to your MP at the start of the fight, whereas HP merits will cover you any time you get a juicy Cure IV-V. If you do have a good refresh rate, then your base MP in addition to what you get out of gear will be enough to maintain.

In the end, merit what you feel would help you best. However, the argument here is that MP merits aren't much use for a PLD due to the fact that your refresh rate, not your base MP, is your lifeline. The HP merits are ultimately better since they will increase your ability to survive potentially devastating attacks without needing to sacrifice some gear for +hp gear.
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#57 Jun 09 2008 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol@the Zelda Stuff. Done bothering trying to persuade/convince peopke of my choice. It works fine for me, and I still have more HP without merits than other races with Merits.

Oh and btw, real Zelda fans beat the game with 5 Hearts only, so suck it.
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#58 Jun 09 2008 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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lolGanondorf
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#59 Jun 10 2008 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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your refresh rate, not your base MP, is your lifeline.


Really?

The Refresh rate will have no factor if after 2 spells you are empty

The Refresh rate will get you to cureI fast and by the time your refresh rate gets to Cure 3 or 4 you may already be Dead or worse your Whm or Rdm maybe dead cause you couldnt keep hate.

HP. + MP. Pool + Refresh Rate = Lifeline (they all have an effect on lifeline)


The greater the starting pool is the longer the Refresh Rate is more usefull.

If you are sitting on 0 mp and have a large refresh rate it really will mean nothing.

The greater the Starting MP pool is the Longer the Refresh Rate will be More usefull.

Let me try to explain base Mp pools with a refresh rate of 5 a tick
Start MP Pool 100 Cast cure4 88 mp cost leaves u with 12 mp pool after 1 tick of refresh pool is now at 17 2nd tick 22 3rd tick 27 and can now cast your 2nd spell cure2 or flash or reprisal. (your options are limitless)

Mp Pool 200 Cast Cure4 88 Mp your pool now stands at 112 you can now cast a 2nd spell cure4 and have a tick of refresh go off and be able to cast Flash Cure2 or reprisal

The greater the Starting Pool of Mp is the more value a Refresh Rate has. It all is relevant on one another for survival.

Yes you have to wear +HP gear to get close to a Galkas, As a Galka If I put those same slots to better Use Enimity, Haste, I can still adjust my MP pool by meriting Mp.

Again I agree with Meriting HPs if your the Main Pld of a Ls, but advise should be given as to where a player is at in the game. Throw a cpl MP merits on right now for Benifits in the RIGHT here and NOW!!! (I myself am choosing 2HP 6MP) I am lvling BLM currently and will def use the MP merits my choice.

Again all of this debate comes down to is

Decide for yourself what it is you want to accomplish in game. Does any of those Things involve other jobs/subjobs that take advantage of MP (Merit MP)
Do the only other jobs u find interesting only have HP (Merit HP)
You want to be the Main Pld of a HNMLS (merit HP)
Do all of the above seem like possibilities (GO 4/4) or whatever makes you feel good. (2/6) (3/5) (6/2) (7/1)

Me personnally even if I was a Main Galka Pld of a Hnmls I would still put one into MP merit so I could cast a R1 Nakid for those UH-OH moments in Dunes/Jungle if lvling another job.
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Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#60 Jun 10 2008 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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ccstwocents wrote:
Is pld the only job your ever gonna play.. No.


Rather presumptuous of you to assume that people aren't going to simply level PLD and be happy with that job.


ccstwocents wrote:
What is gonna be more usefull to you in the rest of the Game. Mp Merits.


Also presumptuous to assume that any other job they level will require MP. Suppose they level WAR to 75? How much good are those MP merits gonna do there? How about MNK? RNG? THF? SAM?



Really? Presumptuous? Try reading the Thread first I am Giving ADvise Based on the Person who is Asking the Question here.

Quote:
I was mainly thinking of going MP for the extra mp going into RDM and BLU later in my game life.





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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#61 Jun 11 2008 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Maybe if I use boldface too it will make me more correct! No?

I, along with everyone else, mentioned that anyone choosing merits should take into consideration what jobs they intend to level and what they feel will work in their best interests. However, you should take into account that Galka PLDs tanked just fine long ago in the day and age before merits existed, before Homam existed, back when they had only their 143mp to rely on, plus some from Adaman and other gear selections. The same could be said of HP merits, true, but the point is that 143mp + gear should be enough to suffice.

Any time you are cured to full HP, your HP merits are helping you. This should happen somewhat often. However, you will rarely have full MP to take advantage of MP merits. They will more often than not amount to nothing more than some extra shaded-out area at the end of your little green MP bar, doing you absolutely no good whatsoever.

More HP is never a bad thing. Remember, if you run out of MP, you don't fall flat on your face while the nasty mob runs rampant over your allies. Running out of HP does that.


ccstwocents wrote:
The greater the Starting Pool of Mp is the more value a Refresh Rate has.


This just simply is not true.

Starting out with more base MP only means that you have a smidgeon more MP to start with, but once it's gone it's gone. You still have to rely on your refresh rate to be able to do anything more. If your refresh rate is 5mp/tick with 143 base MP or 5mp/tick with 400 base MP, either way you're still getting 5mp/tick. Having higher base MP isn't going to magically make that 5mp/tick into something more than what it explicitly is.

If you're burning through MP so fast that your refresh rate isn't enough for you, then even having 400mp you are still going to run dry and be just as bad off as the other guy with 100mp.

In the end, a Galka with no MP and a meager refresh rate is just as good as a Tarutaru with no MP and a meager refresh rate. Base MP is irrelevant. All base MP does is help you last a bit longer before running out. In the case of 80mp from 8/8 MP merits, 80mp isn't going to go a long way before it is completely spent. A PLD is most likely better off using gear to get MP, maxing your Chivalry (5/5 for 10min recast), and having a nice WHM for Devotion, a RDM for Refresh, and a BRD for Ballads.


ccstwocents wrote:
...advise should be given as to where a player is at in the game.


If a player is in the stage of the game where they are building merit points, odds are they are joining zerg groups where mobs die in 15 seconds pulling Limit Chain 100+ and the PLD is focusing on just doing as much damage as possible. Even in regular tanking role, they have already made it to 75 WITHOUT merits and should be able to manage their MP accordingly.

So, if they are meritting, MP is irrelevant because the mobs die too fast to make it worthwhile or they are in a normal role and should know how to manage their MP. If they are HNM tanking, they need HP to survive potentially deadly attacks, resulting in MP still being irrelevant. Sentinel/Guardian should be enough to generate enough hate without having to spam spells and squander your MP reserves.

As you put it, in the "here and now", a brand new Lv75 PLD (as noted by the quote: "I am not sure how the merits work quiet yet..") should be focusing on things such as unlocking Chivalry, capping Shield, capping Sword, and capping Enmity, as ScarShiva noted. HP/MP is further down the line. Putting "a couple" extra merits into MP and getting +20mp isn't going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, as you seem to be implying. Those merits are better spent elsewhere.

And, in the event that it hasn't been said enough, merits are the choice of the player who chooses them. Pick what you feel suits you best and will give you the greatest benefit. Advice is based on personal opinions, which everyone has. Only your opinion matters, so long as your choices don't compromise your ability to perform the role for which your job is meant. Don't try to play PLD with -enmity merits, for example. You'll only succeed in making it more difficult for yourself.
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#62 Jun 11 2008 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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I think a solid HP is 1500. 500 HP to work with as a 'sponge zone'- and untill you hit the deepest parts of end-game you will not see many moves that will approach 1k in damage to you. It is true that you will run into moves that do 600 or 900 and then a double attack /crit to finish you off, but these are flukes that happen occasionally. Higher HP protects you from flukes, so it is suggested to have high HP past 1500 if your entire LS is new and learning together, or if you are into the depths of end-game and need extra HP to live through unexpected fights or fights you might not survive easily; or fights where you have a lack of capable stunners. D:

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#63 Jun 11 2008 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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Yes you are correct no matter how much MP u have if your sitting at 0 u still have 0 MP.

But The starting Mp does matter at how fast you get to 0. Refresh is a Time based refill. If getting to 0 MP takes 5 ticks (using a 5 tick refresh) u will have gained enough Mp at that point to have another Flash)

If your base pool gets you to 0 mp in 3 ticks you are still waiting for 2 ticks before you will have Mp to cast Flash.

So yes Starting pool Does Matter.


and yes Before Merits your base pool of 143 mp worked... and do Did being a Turtle PLD.

But today we sit as a Hybrid Pld that can do OK dmg because we evolved and saw that VIT wasnt as Important as we all thought it was.

I am not saying HP is like Vit and that we should not get it.

And the reason for bold text is I was highlighting that I am saying I agree with HP merits but people disagree like im saying MP is the only way to go.

I am advising that You have a Galka Pld (whose major race flaw is lack of MP) and has intent on lvling Rdm and Blu, 2 other jobs that are MP based.

Mp makes a lot of sense at this point to help overall.

and making urs bold will not make you more correct because you still have to read the rest of the thread before you go accusing peopole of being presumptuous in there statments.


Quote:
And, in the event that it hasn't been said enough, merits are the choice of the player who chooses them. Pick what you feel suits you best and will give you the greatest benefit. Advice is based on personal opinions, which everyone has. Only your opinion matters, so long as your choices don't compromise your ability to perform the role for which your job is meant. Don't try to play PLD with -enmity merits, for example. You'll only succeed in making it more difficult for yourself.


and nothing truer can be said about merits on Hp and Mp so this is where I will leave it.
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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#64 Feb 28 2009 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Bumping this because I dinged 75 tonight and need to study up on merits.
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#65 Mar 01 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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Bumping this because I dinged 75 tonight and need to study up on merits.


W/e makes you feel more confident tanking, as neither matter, at all.

(still talking 80HP vs 80MP, seeing as how that is what this thread is about, assuming that is what you are referring to.)
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#66 Mar 01 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Both merits matter. Max HP merits decrease the amount of enmity you lose from taking hits. This means that you'll shed hate less when you DO take damage, allowing you to hold it better.

Max MP merits give you more starting mp. Once the battle is going, though, max MP matters very little and it comes down to your refresh rate.

As a career paladin, it's usually better to focus on Max HP merits, regardless of race.
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#67 Mar 05 2009 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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8 HP even for galka.
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