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HNM Tanking as PLD/NIN- A Beginner's F.A.Q.Follow

#52 Sep 15 2007 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Bumping becuase it has seam to droped tooo far.
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#53 Nov 02 2007 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
Why isn't this stickied?
#54 Dec 11 2007 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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indeed why isnt it sticked
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We few, we happy few, we band of Paladin brothers; For he today that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother

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The Brick Tank II
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?127304 <------------Tank set up
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?169791 <------------Everything else set up
#55 Dec 11 2007 at 10:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Horiko wrote:
indeed why isnt it sticked


It's not stickied because it's linked in this sticky here- http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=5;mid=1125608999160161842;num=22;page=1

Honestly, the Forum Index should just disappear or be updated, one or the other.

Here's why-

ttalis wrote:
General Guides

HNM Tanking as PLD/NIN- A Beginner's F.A.Q.(ScarShiva) - only link not from 2004-2006 >.>
Comprehensive Paladin Guide (akirussan) - mostly outdated guide which is already stickied anyways
Paladin 101 (Taolil) - redundant info
Understanding of Hate (GrumpyWookie) - 2004 theorycraft from the bloodtanking era
Little Things Young Plds Should Know (Whren) - a good post even now but linked in Akirussan's guide already
Job abilities for exp partying (Whren) - somewhat outdated due to job updates
Measuring up to standards(Whren) - outdated due to job updates and the arrival of TP burn style parties
5 bits of wisdom every Paladin should know.(flowmaestro) - still applies but is generally common knowledge at this stage in the game
Paladin Mentor program(Skidwiz)(Not really a guide, but doesn't really fit anywhere else) - this post hasn't been updated since April 2007, and hadn't been touched for months before that- not very useful at all
Paladin's Guide to Chat Filters(Skidwiz) - most people are aware the chat filters exist and this doesn't offer anything special

Macro Guides

A Paladin's Guide to Macros (Sir ElecMournbringer) - this is common knowledge stuff and Akirussan's guide covers the important macros already

Equipment Guides

Paladin Equipment guide (1-50) (Fisban)
Paladin Extended Guide (51-75) (Fisban)
Cavalier or Earth? (a discussion regarding back armor)(JediMasterYoda)
70+ PLD Armor -Dynamis & Limbus & God's (tank armor)(oldelf)
- These links are all outdated. Cavalier or Earth Mantle? Please...
Besides, NCCoda's guide is stickied and much more comprehensive

Food Guides

Paladin food guide (DDragonace)
- This guy can't even spell "Tavnazian" right, and the food update is now old news.


Skillup Guides

Paladin Skill Up Guide (Rellinger) - OP edited his post to say this- "Removed because I do not support Alla's decision to sell out


That being said



I'M CRUSHING YOUR HEAD ( -.o)c:" LOL

Shield/Parry skill up guide (Darkhybrid)- Not terribly outdated, but generally redundant for the most part. Most people know how the skillup process works these days.


Maat Guides

How to beat maat? (Timitzimaru) The OP just asked the question, lots of good answers were provided
My strat to beating Maat. (Elvaan) (ElecMournbringer)
My strat to beating Maat. (Elvaan) (Dankthetank)
- None of these guides will stop noobie PLDs from posting about this, so generally redundant.

Dynamis and HNMs

The PLD's Dynamis Guide: Revised (Whren) -still good info but linked in Akirussan's guide
a beginners guide to kiting(Darkhybrid) - Genbu kite! GO GO GO! Many shells don't even kite Kirin anymore so this is generally outdated.
HNMs: The basics (Whren) - some good info, but too basic. Due to job updates and PLD/NIN becoming more common, this is outdated.


Discussions

A simple answer to questions about VIT and DEF, intview SE (nitaislick) - LOLVIT
Cavalier or Earth?(JediMasterYoda) - This is double link and lame to boot...


Walkthroughs

Walkthrough: Savage Blade Quest(Arislan) - This info can be found elsewhere
Jelly Ring Walkthrough(akirussan) - not bad info but already linked in Comprehensive PLD Guide
Paladin AF Armor.(Russian) - There have been guides for this here forever- http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests.html?fqtype=Artifact


Dead Horse Discussions

PLD/NIN? Yes, please.(Edgah)
Does +CHR affect hate over time or not?(jAriusEightySix)
Ninja shadows vs. Paladin Mp(xshinedownx)
CHR = Enmity - End this now!(Kooldac), akirussan puts forth some compelling arguments

- All links lame

Fun

You know you've been a pld too long when... (Whren)

What made you decide to become a Paladin?
(flowmaestro)

For all u retarted PLD out there
(Doggmaz)

- Fluff posts

Paladin Fan Art Thread

- Another lame link


If you really want this stickied, Horiko, you can use Forum Feedback, but I don't think the admins like me too well. LMAO

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=10;mid=119598090833043306;num=15;page=1

Edit- you might need to turn off filters to read my post in that thread, and Fynlar adds nothing but bandwidth loss to these forums.



Edited, Dec 12th 2007 1:15am by ScarShiva
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#56 Dec 12 2007 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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Dunno if it's considered an advanced tactic, but might want to mention +/- HP gear swaps to force your HP to a point where you can dump cure 3/4 on yourself. (select HNM only, obviously)
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#57 Dec 12 2007 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Leonadis wrote:
Dunno if it's considered an advanced tactic, but might want to mention +/- HP gear swaps to force your HP to a point where you can dump cure 3/4 on yourself. (select HNM only, obviously)


I definetely advocate using this when it applies, it's easily my favorite trick to get a lot of hate quickly when I can dump the MP to do so.
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#58 Dec 13 2007 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
but I don't think the admins like me too well.


lol what was you expecting with a lash out like that.

Remember what mom said "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it all"


LOL ok i'll stop cause we all know I can't keep my mouth shut either
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ScarShiva wrote:
Disclaimer: There seem to be a lot of PLDs on this board who get upset when I have the nerve to suggest things like wearing Peacock Charm full-time in XP is preferable over Shield Torque, Parade Gorget is a macro piece only, Tacos are worthless, Loquacious Earring > Boxer's Mantle for PLD/NIN, Polearm is a crock of **** for PLD, and all other types of heresy.

Get bent.
#59 Dec 13 2007 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Aye, let's start a petition to clean up the stickies, and include this awesome /NIN guide.

**** I'm glad I got NIN to 37 ^^;;;
#60 Mar 25 2008 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Bump b/c I shouldn't have had to look this hard for it. And yes, I must have overlooked it in the index, but I did check. >.>;

Should be stickied anyways. I think someone mentioned that earlier.
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#61 Mar 26 2008 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Um... Its the very first sticky in the Pld Forum Index.

Smiley: schooled
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#62 Mar 28 2008 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Opobant wrote:
Um... Its the very first sticky in the Pld Forum Index.


The PLD Forum Index is completely outdated. Some of the threads linked in it are broken. There's a lolPLD/RDM guide in the stickies which doesn't belong there if you go solely by the ratings.

People keep bumping this thread because they want easy access to it. They don't want to have to click a link, and then click another link.
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#63 Mar 28 2008 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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ScarShiva wrote:


People keep bumping this thread because they want to be lazy and dont want to click an extra link.


Ah ok, I see. Smiley: grin
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#64 Mar 29 2008 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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The PLD forum index lists a couple of threads that still say that VIT and Defense are uber at any level (even says that for past 60), so yeah, it needs to be updated.
#65 Mar 29 2008 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Seriously, I asked one of the bards in our endgame shell for March while tanking /Nin, he needed an explanation why and proceeded to tell me that neither March were Haste....

After a truly herculean effort on my part towards not puking in my mouth, I scrambled to find this thread... and scrambled... and scrambled. And yeah, it's the first link. And... ?

Using the stickies here is like trying to use a tv remote with the batteries half dead, sometimes you can change the channel, but your destination is nowhere near where you really wanted to look.
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#66 Apr 15 2008 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
How do you decide where to draw the line between enmity and haste? You mentioned it might be better to wear Bahamut's Mask instead of Walahra Turban. That was one of my exact questions, since I have a Bahamut's Mask. I'm also picking Swift belt over my Trance belt usually, and Homam Cosciales over my Valor Breeches. What do you think about the Capricorn Staff over the Machahuitl+1/Koenig Shield? Seems like a similar argument to W. Turban vs. B. Mask... lots of enmity lost for a bit of Haste%... and even worse, the ability to shield block. Without it, though, I'm left with Homam hands/legs (no feet yet) and a Swift Belt for 10% haste (+ a Loquacious Earring).


I knew I remember seeing this post some months ago (prolly when i was still 73-74 way back when >.>) and told myself I'd reread this when I hit 75... almost 9 months later lol. (Edit: damn, 7/20/07 was when i read this thing, forgot I put comment on, lol.)

Anyways, bump for saving me the trouble of posting to figure out how to mix and match my haste vs enmity slots for /nin tanking.

Quote:
The PLD Forum Index is completely outdated. Some of the threads linked in it are broken. There's a lolPLD/RDM guide in the stickies which doesn't belong there if you go solely by the ratings.


No offense to the pld/rdm guide or anything, its well written and historic and deserves at least a spot on the forum index (which I agree, needs some cleaning out, it really does seem outdated, too much clutter that ends up hiding the gems that should be brought to attention.) but in terms of applicable uses I think Pld/nin guide is alot more relevant and should be on the sticky instead. I dont know that many pld's that /rdm these days with all the new subs out and all, but at I've seen all of them on /nin at one point or another for various events.

Playing pld/war up to 74 was for me just another dd job (sans the /dnc phase). Playing from 75 on, is a whole new ballgame and I for one am glad someone took the time to make this.

Edited, Apr 15th 2008 1:22pm by AthasCVII
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#67 Sep 02 2008 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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So who wants this guide expanded?
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#68 Sep 02 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,964 posts
And sticked.
#69 Sep 02 2008 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
ScarShiva wrote:
So who wants this guide expanded?


Were you thinking of more pld/nin or adding new stuff too like /drk, /dnc etc.
More information for people is always a good thing in my books.
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#70 Sep 03 2008 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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ScarShiva wrote:
So who wants this guide expanded?


Do it, I'd love for you to man.
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#71 Sep 04 2008 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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This shouldn't be stickied... The list index should be updated. I think this is there, anyway. Although it's going to be a great guide, I don't think it should sit in the sticky section. We just need someone who'll keep our current index up to date with relevant information.
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#72 Sep 04 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd be glad to go through posts and try to create an updated Index, with input from the forum posters. We severely need the Index updated as Scar has mentioned; it's little wonder that we have PLD coming on here who smell like they've just come fresh from '04.

And yeah, if you extended/expanded the guide Scar, that would be tight.
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#73 Sep 22 2008 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Zelandred wrote:
I'd be glad to go through posts and try to create an updated Index, with input from the forum posters. We severely need the Index updated as Scar has mentioned; it's little wonder that we have PLD coming on here who smell like they've just come fresh from '04.


Actually, the problem is there's not really many posts to link to. Something which really spells out +Enmity as we now understand it is very important, and I might do something like that in a Q & A format similar to my PLD/NIN guide.

Zelandred wrote:
And yeah, if you extended/expanded the guide Scar, that would be tight.


I was thinking now that level sync is available, I could make a new elitist XP guide for PLD, stressing the importance of Peacock Charms, DD equipment/food, +Enmity gear swaps, and ideal camps at all levels.
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#74 Sep 23 2008 at 1:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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ScarShiva wrote:
So who wants this guide expanded?

I know a guide like this could help many new and old Paladins out a lot. I know when I first started paladin, I didnt understand the basics of how pld/nin worked and how it could out do a pld/war in many ways with the right situations. When I found this guide it helped me understand a lot of things for pld and how it worked with /nin sub.

what other means of expanding this guide did you have in mind? a few notible pieces, or stats that could help a pld/nin better in certain circumstances? Like discuss -MDT/MDB builds? I know a few new plds were wondering about that how how to best maximize it, I think in another thread someone was trying to build w/o Iron ram polearm, so tp wouldnt be lost.

And yes I agree stressing over PCC, acc rings, DD gear/ food, +enm would help new coming plds. I was lucky that I was able to read how much you stressed on pld/dd hybrids and DD my PLD all the way to 75.

With this guide it really helped turn my DD pld into something that could tank harder hitting mobs via /nin with haste+enm and have less trouble than on /war.

Look forward to seeing your guide v.2



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#75 Sep 25 2008 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know. I really liked the way this F.A.Q. was set up because it accomplished all of these things-

  • kept the discussion focused

  • kept the discussion intellectually responsible

  • stimulated the discussion by encouraging additional probing questions

  • periodically summarized what has and what has not been dealt with and/or

    resolved

  • drew as many people as it's possible to on Alla into the discussion, both in this thread and other topics

  • While I'd been doing PLD/NIN, NIN/DRK and RDM/NIN for months before I wrote the F.A.Q., I saw many people still clinging to the outdated PLD/WAR for some odd reason, and, even worse, crying about NINs outtanking them because they were "superior".

    Since I knew PLD/NIN was a safer and more efficient tank than the commonly used NIN/WAR (only truly elite players/shells used NIN/DRK at this time), I could only laugh. I'd also been doing stuff with RDM/NIN which led to successfully testdriving PLD/RDM and NIN/RDM. At one point, I seriously wanted to level DRK to 75 so I could use it as an HNM tank, but ended up changing my mind and worked on WAR, WHM, BLM and DRG since then.

    I feel a question and answer type format will be a good way to introduce my vision of what the standard XP tanking mindset should be, and how to teach concepts such as lolVIT, lolDEF, and lolAdaman effectively.


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    #76 Nov 13 2008 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Bump, let's sticky this thing already.

    Scar, I linked this in my Gear guide, hope you don't mind :P
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    #77 Jan 26 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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    Bump for an interesting read.

    Putting my 2 cent on PLD/NIN, not a fan but I can do it. From my experience though it works best as stated with good support PLD/NIN wont work if the party and alliance is not on the same page, Ive seen it get ugly fast when the mages aren't on their A game or when your SATA's don't go off well. Last time I did PLD/NIN it was on Tinnin fun fight only lost one tank and I was able to keep hate on my self 95% of the fight the other 5% with my back up tank. Sadly I didn't have any haste gear only the spell, and double march. One day I would like to take it further though with better /NIN tanking gear. But like stated here and I tell others PLD/NIN (usually /NIN yuppies) is it's totally situational that has its places in well controlled fights.
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    #78 Feb 26 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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    Bumping because I can :P
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    Ukonvasara, Hydra Haubert, Ares's Cuirass, Ebody, all thanks to awesome friends!
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