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#1 Feb 07 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Dam freaking horrible delay. Had a discussion with a budy I was of the opinion that its not worth it to 5 hit outside of Abyssea because you would give up too much and inside (where the stat bonuses are less important due to atmas cruor buffs) you would have regain anyway.

Ok so as alot of you know to 5 hit the dam thing you have to Stp 53. (assumes 2 hit ws, no tp from getting hit or atma) Which means your going to have to gimp both tp gear and ws. Frankly, I am still on the fence if this is even worth it because even gimping your dmg to not pull hate the odds of a well geared war not getting hit once are low.

Ok

6 Hit is cake 27 stp

Stp normal decent tp gear.

15 /sam
8 body
5 rajas
5 g belt
1 brutal

34 which is overkill and lets you do a few swaps for WS (and you can swap belt for higher haste belt and still WS in a better belt)

Interestingly if you add Rose and TP in tactical you get a 5 hit with 2 ticks of VV or 1 tick and getting hit once. Which is what I think I am going to stick too.

Now lets go for 53... need 19 more

4 Rose - lose 2% DA (or 3% Crit goign to use DA as an example)
1 Earing - lose 3 att and 1 DA
6 Tactical - lose 35 attack (-15 +20) and 3 DA
2 white - Lose 3 Str 8 Attack
4 Ring - lose 11 str (-4 +7) and 2 Acc
2 Neck - lose 3 str 2 DA

(or change some of the above for 6 Food but you would lose 90 attack (assumes you would have used curry))

Now those stats in abyssea are no big deal, but outside?

5 hit vrs 8% DA 16 Str 54 Attack 2 Acc

What do you guys think 5 hit worth it?



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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#2 Feb 08 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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I am usually unable to WS at all...unless I'm only one on mob due to Ruby kill issue.

Not braggin'... just sayin' thought these concerns where pretty much a thing of the past.

On NM's I'm either tanking, co-tanking or Proc'ing !! so not an issue then either.

In TE farming with multiple mobs/retaliation Fell Cleave spam OR in the new Cataclysm spam I'm either not using GA or getting TP so fast its sick (am actually considering -DT magian for this reason)

Not to mention VV etc & Save TP atma availability.

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#3 Feb 08 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Inside you can just assume 2 ticks of VV for 5 hit, outside it gets abit tricky. As it stands I can't think of any mob outside that's highly evasive at 90 that anyone is going to regularly fight (mainly because no one regularly fights anything of difficulty outside but I digress) so for old content 5 hit is going to win. Assuming accuracy isn't an issue and WS is tweaked for dDex (hollow/jupiter earring, byakko's, ravager+2 hands, hecatomb feet) using Kine's sheet 5 hit is still winning outside in overall damage.

Of course, this is for a true 5 hit, unless you revert back to fulltime seigan/never get hit, you can probably get away with a pseudo 5 hit.

Edited, Feb 8th 2011 10:09am by Neisan
#4 Feb 12 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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I agree, Weaponskill frequency is a nice thing to have. I use Bravura however, so I have an easier time with STP than Ukon. I use a 4/3 hit build.
//
SAM sub ~ 15
Carbonarra ~ 6
Rajas Ring ~ 5
Brutal Earring ~ 1
Atilla Earring ~ 1
Aurumn Body ~ 7
Ecphoria Ring ~ 1
Rose Strap ~ 4
Tactical Mantle ~ 6
Champion's Head with STP+4/Evasion+10/Haste+3%
Atma of the Razed Ruins
Atma of the Scorpion Queen (STP+20, Crit Rate+10%)
Atma of the Plague Bringer (STP+20, DA + Minor)
//
Tactical Mantle is a pain cuz Myrmecoleon is more annoiying than I think most of the Abyssea NMs <.<; but with all this I keep STP+90 in Abyssea while keeping Haste+25% DA+27% so its pretty nice. My play style has to change tho, Swing on one mob for a few seconds and go WS a mob thats hanging off to the side, TP will be at 50% or 75% by the time I finish that mob off then run over and repeat while staying in healing range lol. And with this same set, I can keep a 5/4 outside of Abyssea too by just switching out Ecphoria Ring for Hoard Ring (STR-4/DEX-4) which hurts but I think its worth having a non-crippled 5/4 hit.
//
But back to the OP I think you can find a STP settup that works if you dig a little deeper. Tactical mantle beeing one of the most convenient items. Theres alot of STP gear for us to use and I think 5? STP Atmas that all give +20 in there
#5 Feb 20 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems I miscalculated 5 hit with Ukon for outside Abyssea (forgot to add Carbonara...) Don't need Almah Torque for TP or Attila's for WS, Chivalrous for TP with Ravager's Earring for WS and assuming initial hit+1 extra hit lands (which will occur roughly 95% of the time unless accuracy is really bad) is enough to 5 hit Ukon along with Goading/Rajas/Brutal/White Tath/Tactical/Af3+2 Body.

Edited, Feb 20th 2011 11:35am by Neisan
#6 Mar 22 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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1,247 posts
My math must be way off because I am coming up with 27 stp to reach a 5 hit with a 2 hit ws. For a 4 hit build you need 52 tp (not 53) so I am not sure on any of your numbers.

13.0 + [(Delay - 480) * 1.5 / 50]

* {1 + (.01 X Store TP)} = TP per hit

is 13.06 (base tp/hit floored to 13.0) and with 27 store tp that goes to 1.27*13 = 16.51 (floored to 16.5)

So at 16.5 tp/hit a 2 hit ws gives 16.5 + 1.27 = 17.77 (floored to 17.7 tp).


100-17.7 = 82.3
5* 16.5 = 82.5 tp


That should be a 5 hit build at 27 store tp. I checked with my spread sheet, and again with wiki and a third time with FFXI calc. All confirm this.
#7 Mar 22 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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983 posts
At the moment, I tout this setup for Abyssea with VV:

WAR TP:
Ukon/Rose/___/White Tathlum
Zelus/AF3/AF3/Brutal
AF3+2/Perle/Hoard/Rajas
Tactical/Goading/AF3+2/AF3+2

WAR WS:
Ukon/Rose/___/AF3
AF3+2/Gorget/Vulcan's Pearl/Brutal
Zahak's/Heafoc/Pyrosoul/Rajas
Atheling/ele Belt/Hachiryu/AF3+2

Subbing Atlas +2 for Ukon works, and you can drop a little STP thanks to Raging Rush.

Also, you'll land at least one extra hit on Ukon more than 95% of the time thanks to Double/Triple Attack.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 6:08pm by Byrthnoth
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#8 Mar 22 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
At the moment, I tout this setup for Abyssea with VV:

WAR TP:
Ukon/Rose/___/White Tathlum
Zelus/AF3/AF3/Brutal
AF3+2/Perle/Hoard/Rajas
Tactical/Goading/AF3+2/AF3+2

WAR WS:
Ukon/Rose/___/AF3
AF3+2/Gorget/Vulcan's Pearl/Brutal
Zahak's/Heafoc/Pyrosoul/Rajas
Atheling/ele Belt/Hachiryu/AF3+2

Subbing Atlas +2 for Ukon works, and you can drop a little STP thanks to Raging Rush.

Also, you'll land at least one extra hit on Ukon more than 95% of the time thanks to Double/Triple Attack.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 6:08pm by Byrthnoth


I think you currently have the ideal set, although I assume you tp in Af3+2 hands when restraint is up?

Curious do you normally use VV? How is your experience with tp returns?

I am just curious how often you find your self either a) getting hit or b) getting an extra tick of VV pushing you over 100.

i.e. on paper your build is clearly top notch, but wonder if your leaning towards dropping any of the stp items based on your play.





____________________________
Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#9 Mar 23 2011 at 5:26 AM Rating: Decent
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It depends on Haste level. Also, I don't have Zelus Tiara. That's just the build that I advocate for WARs. I personally use Turban and Dusk +1.
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