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4,770 posts

I figured I come to the WAR forums to ask this question since a lot of you probably know the answer. I'm currently finishing up a sword in the Magian trials for my BLU but I need some answers to proceed. As you might know, BLU has Double attack trait now. Brutal is 5% DA. There is a sword that offers 9% DA that has nice damage. So that would bring my total DA to 24%. Now comes the tricky part. The trials also have multi-hit weapons that are 2x and 2-3x times respectively. I'm really enjoying my higher Vorpal blades thanks to DA procs so that puts me in a difficult situation. If I pick for example the 2-3x sword, it will interrupt DA most of the time like the Joyeuse does. I'm confused where to proceed at this point. If someone could explain how the Joyeuse works with DA, that would be helpful. I already know that DA and 2x proc can't be on the same attack round at least on that particular sword. I'm looking for the optimal TP build right now if that helps. If I had to guess, I'd say pick a OAT sword over the 24% DA proc. Now if DA doesn't proc from the trait because of a 2-3x attack, does it still proc at least 10% of the time that a multi-hit doesn't proc? Sorry if I'm making this confusing, I never really parsed the differences yet with Joyeuse mostly because my BLU can't equip it. Thanks guys

Sage

3,959 posts

For what it's worth, I'd say yes, DA probably does has its normal chance of processing whenever the weapon effect doesn't (with the exception of Virtue weapons, which BLU isn't on so it's moot)

LordFaramir wrote:

ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH

Sage

2,270 posts

gear/trait DA still works normally, but only after you remove the DA you get from a weapon.

For example purposes, lets say joy, or the DA weapon your looking to use has a 50% DA rate and you have 20% DA in gear (round numbers for simplicity).

Without that DA weapon you would have a 20% DA rate, or 1/5.

WITH the 50% DA weapon, you would NOT get 50%(weapon)+20%(gear)=70% DA. Instead after 100 atks, 50 would be DA from the weapon. Remove those. Now you have 50 single hits left. Your 20% in gear will work on THOSE only. So 20% of 50 attacks is 10 DA. So when its all added up, from 100 atks, 50 are weapon DA, 10 are gear DA, total DA is 60/100 or 60%.

Basically if your weapon DA reduces your gear/trait DA by the same % as the weapons proc rate. 50% weapon DA cuts your effective DA from gear/traits by 50%. Thus why 50% weapon+20%gear/trait(halved=10%) becomes 60% overall DA rate.

RL example, i have the OAT lance for drg. (supposedly 40% proc rate). My pole grip(2%DA) is only bringing my DA rate from 40 to 41.2%. 40% OAT lance reduces that 2% grip by 40%. 0.4*0.02=0.008. so 0.02-0.008=0.012 or 1.2%. 40%OAT lance+1.2%=41.2% real DA rate.

If you ahve 24% gear and use a similar 40% OAT weapon, 0.4*0.24=0.096. .24-0.96=.144. Your 24% DA would stick on 14.4% on top of the ~40% OAT weapon=54.4% DA rate.

Probably a little more than needed to answer the question, but there it is. you can also remove a step in the math by just doing 0.25-40% (using the above example #s) but some people have trouble wrapping their head around subtracting a percentage from a percentage correctly in my experience so thus the 2step method described instead of the 1step jsut now.

Anyway, hope this answers your question.

For example purposes, lets say joy, or the DA weapon your looking to use has a 50% DA rate and you have 20% DA in gear (round numbers for simplicity).

Without that DA weapon you would have a 20% DA rate, or 1/5.

WITH the 50% DA weapon, you would NOT get 50%(weapon)+20%(gear)=70% DA. Instead after 100 atks, 50 would be DA from the weapon. Remove those. Now you have 50 single hits left. Your 20% in gear will work on THOSE only. So 20% of 50 attacks is 10 DA. So when its all added up, from 100 atks, 50 are weapon DA, 10 are gear DA, total DA is 60/100 or 60%.

Basically if your weapon DA reduces your gear/trait DA by the same % as the weapons proc rate. 50% weapon DA cuts your effective DA from gear/traits by 50%. Thus why 50% weapon+20%gear/trait(halved=10%) becomes 60% overall DA rate.

RL example, i have the OAT lance for drg. (supposedly 40% proc rate). My pole grip(2%DA) is only bringing my DA rate from 40 to 41.2%. 40% OAT lance reduces that 2% grip by 40%. 0.4*0.02=0.008. so 0.02-0.008=0.012 or 1.2%. 40%OAT lance+1.2%=41.2% real DA rate.

If you ahve 24% gear and use a similar 40% OAT weapon, 0.4*0.24=0.096. .24-0.96=.144. Your 24% DA would stick on 14.4% on top of the ~40% OAT weapon=54.4% DA rate.

Probably a little more than needed to answer the question, but there it is. you can also remove a step in the math by just doing 0.25-40% (using the above example #s) but some people have trouble wrapping their head around subtracting a percentage from a percentage correctly in my experience so thus the 2step method described instead of the 1step jsut now.

Anyway, hope this answers your question.

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4,770 posts

Thanks rate up. I suppose that even a slight proc from DA trait is better than nothing. I was concerned that if I upgraded to the OaT sword, my DA procs would be useless by the trait/gear. I'm not 100% certain on the math so if you estimate these numbers, that would be helpful

OaT 40% DA

Gear/Trait DA 15%

So that's a 55% total. I was planning to use the trait and Brutal only. Thanks

*Edited, Sep 22nd 2010 8:18pm by ShadowedgeFFXI *

OaT 40% DA

Gear/Trait DA 15%

So that's a 55% total. I was planning to use the trait and Brutal only. Thanks

Scholar

2,606 posts

Quote:

So that's a 55% total. I was planning to use the trait and Brutal only. Should I expect around 50-55%?

If you read what Banalty wrote, it would mean you have a 49% Double hit rate (using a 40% occ2x weapon + 15% DA)

Hits of your Vorpal Blade will DA 15% of the time.

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