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WS gear suggestion in relation to occ. attacks X axes.Follow

#1 Sep 18 2010 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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Sup guys.

I'm trying to make the absolute best Dual wield warrior i can make. Why?? Because I still think Dual Wield war is freakin awesome and will be even better with DW3.

So, I went out and over the last 3 weeks, and ive obtained the Guichards Axe+1 with 8Dex and 14Acc, and the Richardet's axe+1 with Oat2-3x. First of all, let me say that at no point did I get discouraged, its crazy how much sh*t you gotta kill, but I think its going to be so worth it. With the higher and higher skill war now get with handaxes, I think it won't take long for dual axe to out do /ridill very soon. But thats neither here nor there.

Basically i have a few choices in gear now for my dual wield set and i'd like to rack your brains for a moment.
5/5 double attack, 8/8 handaxe merits.

TP really the main reason im posting, but I need to list both sets to show my issues.
Obviously rampage.

TP = http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7965/93188376.jpg

First choice of WS = http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4681/75295702.jpg

Second choice of WS = http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3034/rampagep.jpg

Basically it's heca hat, heca body, and af2+1 legs
VS. maat's cap, aurum cuirass, and haidate.

Is the loss of 14 STR really worth gaining +25dex since Rampage is a 30% str mod?
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Also taken from wiki that on offhand Single Attack rate to be roughly 42%~, Double Attack rate to be 32%~ and Triple Attack rate to be 22%. My friends have said i have a 6hit build easy on my war right now given these numbers. But I dont really parse much stuff. With 6.9tp a hit given my delay, it'd be 15/2 or 8 attack cycles for 100tp but with the offhand, wouldnt it be around 6? I dont have hard data here.

Been told I should ditch the chiv chain and get a fortitude torque because while gorgets may give higher dmg than torques, that torques are more consistent dmg.

and yes, unfortunately I know a lot of this stuff will change as we progress into af3+2. But i'd just like your thoughts, on what you think i can do now to be better.

Thanks.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 2:41am by Gippo

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 6:59pm by Gippo
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#2 Sep 18 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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If you're doing a dual wield build, why bother with double Attack merits, Bergressor would be the way to go i'm pretty sure,

As for the future, or current time I should say, Ravagar feet will outdo Aurum, Headpiece is a tossup I guess,

Byakko's in my opinion, should definetly stay on for Weapon skill, I would dare say Perle Hauberk outbeats Aurum Cuirass for Rampage, Headpiece hectacomb all the way. I'm no number cruncher i'm just saying out of experience since I myself use Ridill build, Hopefully some of the people who are god at figuring this stuff out can help you out.
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#3 Sep 18 2010 at 3:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fortitude Torque isn't going to do anything for an Axe/Axe build. Temperance Torque is the Axe version you're thinking of. Still, Elemental Gorgets are going to be better for weapon skills.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 5:25am by lolgaxe
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#4 Sep 19 2010 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Curious what you guys think would be better Fire (Str 6 attack 16) or thunder Dex 6 acc 12.

I am leanign twords acc...
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#5 Sep 19 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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1 of each? Fire axe for low-endgame where acc is capped(dynamis,limbus,etc) and thunder axe for higher stuff where you need the extra acc(Abyssea,etc). War gets dual wield 3 at 90 and if you have suppa earring, means dual wield 4 at 90 from nin sub.
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#6 Sep 19 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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hyunkyl wrote:
1 of each? Fire axe for low-endgame where acc is capped(dynamis,limbus,etc) and thunder axe for higher stuff where you need the extra acc(Abyssea,etc). War gets dual wield 3 at 90 and if you have suppa earring, means dual wield 4 at 90 from nin sub.
that's what I'm doing.
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Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#7 Nov 23 2010 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just wondering how happy you are with this axe setup?
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#8 Dec 06 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Can't tell yet, I have to lvl blm first since its my LS job, but after that intend to do war 85-90. I play both

but , either way, until I prove its more than a toy, ugrading STR/ATT Atlas to +2 first, then upgrading both handaxes from +1 to +2.

By the way, is that a typo on the hands being AXE skill, not Great Axe skill? I'm still at work.



Edited, Dec 6th 2010 6:49pm by Gippo
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#9 Dec 07 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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wow. check this out for a reward. 700 demons to this

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3271/24times.jpg

not sleeping tonight :(
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#10 Dec 08 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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So with us getting the next step DW and a AXE that is this kind of multi hit capability.......

Am I the only one is about to **** myself with excitement?

I am surprised both general forums and especiall the War forums aren't lit up about this? Could this be the return of the lolDWaxe War?
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


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When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#11 Dec 08 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Not saying im the first, but.... well. havent exactly seen these running around my server.

gonna take at least 5 hours of serious farm time to get this, probably longer, so it will be a few days till I get this done. Earlier in this thread i asked for gear suggestions, i may ask for a small critique for DW setup when these 2 axes are done.

rock on , by the way, is the tp return on a 2-4 weapon 40% > 30% > 20% > 10%? cant find **** on it.
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#12 Dec 08 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Can I ask if you us the /nin if your Dnc is so low? I was looking to level /dnc to use as the sub to help me solo a lot of these trials if I can't get a group together from my LS.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#13 Dec 08 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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nah, dnc is 49, but most of this **** is too annoying to solo. get a duo buddy.

600 undead solo? on war? no
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#14 Dec 13 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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finally got it, will try to parse some data tomorrow night at abyssea.

going to use RR/VV/SA

going to bed, i'm exhausted

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 1:22am by Gippo
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#15 Dec 20 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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600 undead solo? on war? no


This is a stupidly easy trial. The Eld Necropolis is full of the lowest lvl udead able to give exp. You'll also find MNK's, BST's and other WAR's down there from time to time.
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#16 Dec 20 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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this just in: RR/VV/Apoc is an absolute beast with this. You guys should get it, holy balls is it fun. Non stop hundred fists with axes because by the time your delay rolls back around you're still swinging.

and it aint some bullsh*t weaksauce thing either, low 3k+, can top 4k rampages, with personal max so far at 4780.

now do that every 5 seconds, mmmmm.


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 7:03pm by Gippo
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#17 Dec 20 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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Good to hear.

I was looking at building a DA build or a OA2-4 build for my War. Gaxe is cool but I have always been in love with multi-hit from the coveted Ridill.

On my OA2-4 build I really have been all over the place for what to chose for the mainhand. In the end the Dex/Acc axe will probably win, nice to have the Acc outside of Abys I guess.

Thanks for keeping me motivated.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#18 Dec 23 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Gippo wrote:
this just in: RR/VV/Apoc is an absolute beast with this. You guys should get it, holy balls is it fun. Non stop hundred fists with axes because by the time your delay rolls back around you're still swinging.

and it aint some bullsh*t weaksauce thing either, low 3k+, can top 4k rampages, with personal max so far at 4780.

now do that every 5 seconds, mmmmm.


Edited, Dec 20th 2010 7:03pm by Gippo
what were you main handing?
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#19 Dec 23 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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guichard's axe +2 with dex/acc

went the dex route since dex affects crits and well, razed ruin , nuff said

i'm at work so i dont remember the stats

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 4:13pm by Gippo
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#20 Dec 24 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Gippo wrote:
guichard's axe +2 with dex/acc

went the dex route since dex affects crits and well, razed ruin , nuff said

i'm at work so i dont remember the stats

Edited, Dec 23rd 2010 4:13pm by Gippo
lol, well that's why the ws dmg didn't suck. However, it still seems like a load of fun Smiley: lol
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#21 Dec 28 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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On the topic of the DEX axe, you should be capped dDEX vs almost anything w/ crour buffs and RR atma. You cap at 20% crit rate @ 50 over the mob AGI. (I think it is 50)
#22 Jan 03 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess if you're already this far along, there's no point in explaining why this is a bad idea. I'll give it a shot anyway though.

The OA2-3 weapon averaged 1.7 Attacks per round. We can safely assume the OA2-4 axe averages higher than that now, which puts it into a dangerous place for DA:
* Below 2 Attacks per swing, DA increases your hits per swing
* At 2 Attacks per swing, DA doesn't change your Attacks per swing
* Above 2 Attacks per swing, DA decreases your Attacks per swing
Regardless of what the exact Attacks per swing is, you're reaching the point where Double attack doesn't help increase that hand's hits/round. Still, because your main hand is helped by DA and due to lack of other options in Abyssea (Attack capped, Accuracy capped), it makes sense to gear for Double Attack.

Axe/Axe/___/AF3
AF3+2/AF3/Suppa/Brutal
Timarli/Dusk+1/Rajas/Blitz
DA&Atk/Bullwhip/AF3+2/AF3+2
26% Haste, +19% DA from gear (15% from merits, 5% from VV = 39% total), 15% Triple Attack from Apocalypse (so 33% effective DA because TA procs first)

With a setup like this, you already average about 1.63 attacks per round. Your OA2-4 Axe's average would be largely unaffected by DA.

D34, 312 Delay, Average Attacks/round around 2 :: 60*34*2/312 = DPS of 13.1
vs.
Skeggiold, the elemental starting weapon. D38, 280 delay, 1.63 attacks per round = DPS of 13.3

Basically, the OA2-4 Axe is such a horrid piece of sh*t that a second stage magian beats it. If you include fSTR, the difference actually increases. It is just a terrible weapon in light of how much DA/TA we have access to these days.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 2:24pm by Byrthnoth
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#23 Jan 03 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for jumping in with some math, I was wondering (not to derail) if you could help with some math on my build.

I am building a Gaxe build and just playing with axe combos. I like the multi hit and was thinking of doing with the OAT Gaxe, I figure that will do better than the OA2-4 Gaxe. I was wondering if you could figure how that would compare to the DA+8% Gaxe.

Just from using bro science it seems the OAT Gaxe procs about 45% (from what I have read) and it would be nice to have all the DA Proc when it doesn't kick in. How would that stack against the DA Gaxe and the OA2-4 Gaxe. War is my main and I want to knock out on of these Gaxe to take over my byakkyo axe until I can work my way to Yukkos fury.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#24 Jan 03 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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It is a little bit harder with GAxes, because weapon choice has a large effect on WS damage compared to an Axe offhand, which has very little effect on WS damage (and very little impact on WS frequency in the case above). Still, I wouldn't recommend doing the OAT GAxe. It is not as bad as the OA2-4, but any other completed magian will be better than it.

Good candidates, kind of listed by ease of attainment:
PDT GAxe
STR GAxe
Maschu +2
WS Damage or STP GAxe (could be good for a 5-hit)
DA GAxe

The easiest path, depending on season, is probably the PDT GAxe. I personally have the STR/Atk GAxe, but the attack and STR don't help my damage much (STR just as a WS mod) in Abyssea and utility-wise the PDT GAxe is superior. Atma of the Apocalypse may also not be the best second option for a 5-hitting WAR depending how much DA they have and whether they need an STP Atma.


Edit: Back of the napkin math for OAT Gaxe with 45% competitive DA rate against the 8% DA GA:
D96, 514 delay, hopefully a 5-hit, 45% competitive DA rate, 33% DA rate, 15% TA rate = 1.864 Attacks/round = DPS of about 20.9
D118, 514 delay, hopefully a 5-hit, 40% DA rate, 15% TA rate = 1.7 Attacks/round = DPS of about 23.4 (DA GAx)
D117, 482 delay, unknown x-hit, 33% DA rate, 15% TA rate = DPS of 23.7 (generic elemental magian)

Edited, Jan 3rd 2011 2:52pm by Byrthnoth
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#25 Jan 04 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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i really appreciate the math help, not so good at that stuff.

I guess I am just going to work towards a Maschu +2 and call it all good. I have all the kindred crest and high crests just from doing parties. I have been taking as many parties to try to skillup my Gaxe, **** I am only at 317 skill and I have full merits on War, Nin and Blm. guess I just need a skill up party now, skill trying to earn curur though.

Now in you math does that include the WS frequency that you would get from the added TP of a multi-hit?

What would be the DPS of the Maschu +2?
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


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When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#26 Jan 05 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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It did not include that, but you have to balance the higher WS frequency against the lower base damage. It ends up being a ~10% increase in WS frequency over the DA GAxe, at the cost of 22 points of base damage. That's probably a wash or in the DA GAxes' favor, even in Abyssea.

Maschu +2's DPS using the below build/atmas/numbers/etc would be 24.5, with the added bonus of Ukko's Fury and a likely 5-hit.
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#27 Jan 05 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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SO if I am understanding you correctly, the Machu +2 with Ukko's Fury really isn't a big upgrade from most of the other magian weapons? That sounds weird to me.

It is very frustrating being a War, I am not cool with just being a trigger *****, and it is difficult to low man on War because of the lack of survivability, or so I have experienced.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#28 Jan 05 2011 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Techsupport wrote:
SO if I am understanding you correctly, the Machu +2 with Ukko's Fury really isn't a big upgrade from most of the other magian weapons? That sounds weird to me.

It is very frustrating being a War, I am not cool with just being a trigger *****, and it is difficult to low man on War because of the lack of survivability, or so I have experienced.
I don't mind being trigger *****, for two reasons:

1) I've always carried around one of every weapon on my war anyway, for whenever I get a chance to skill up, so it's nice to use them constructively
2) It's something different
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#29 Jan 05 2011 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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I guess I can understand our usefulness. I have Gaxe, axe, sword, and dagger skilled. I just never saw the sense in skipping up polearm or staff or club. I always kept the weapons that I would actually use skilled. By the time I would level all the "other" weapons god only knows if I would even use them by then. I mean he'll, I haven't even finished COP yet. Lol.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#30 Jan 06 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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Techsupport wrote:
SO if I am understanding you correctly, the Machu +2 with Ukko's Fury really isn't a big upgrade from most of the other magian weapons? That sounds weird to me.

It is very frustrating being a War, I am not cool with just being a trigger *****, and it is difficult to low man on War because of the lack of survivability, or so I have experienced.


Not entirely. In additional to higher DPS, Maschu +1 also offers two other things:
1) Access to Ukko's Fury
2) 504 Delay, which makes for an easier 5-hit.

Maschu +1 may be the second best GAxe in the game after Ukonvasara right now. I'd really recommend getting it if you have the time and dedication to WAR. I personally don't, and chose to give up Ukonvasara for Twashtar. I'd rather have a 10% increase in my Dancer's damage than a 40% increase in my WAR's.


Also, my survivability on WAR has improved pretty dramatically in the last two months as my PDT set has gone from "suck" to "pretty solid." (See spoiler) Much of the gear is AHable or soloable. It took me about 7 lucky hours to get those rings. If you are having durability issues while DDing, a PDT GAxe may be the simplest and best option for you.
Versa Celata/Twilight torque/Merman's earring/Brutal earring
Versa Hauberk +1/Heavy Gauntlets/Dark Ring (6% PDT/4% MDT)/Dark Ring (5% PDT/6% MDT)
Metallon mantle/-3% DT waist/DS Subligar+1/Ruffian Leggings

I also have Eisen Grip for when I'm basically facetanking, and I'm working on a PDT GAxe in spurts for similar situations.


I also keep things as skilled up as possible on WAR. I'm done all the WSNMs (except H2H, Katana, and GKT), and all of my skills are at least 260ish. Vlor, if you want to do some skillup duoing some time I'd totally be game. Unfortunately, my useful skills are fairly near cap so I'd need to work on things like Staff, Scythe, and Great Sword.
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