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Two questions, advice pleaseFollow

#1 Aug 15 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Question 1: Killing is Fun

For tier 1 merits I went 4 DA, 2 Berserk, Aggressor, Warcry. In the name of sanity I kept those three on the same timer and in one macro. I plan on going 5/5 Warrior's Charge, but I'm not sure what else to do. As near as I can tell there are three logical choices. One thing I cannot seem to find is if the Tomahawk item goes in the ranged or ammo slot. Macroing it into the ammo slot with the Bomb Core is fine, but giving up 12 attack to keep it in the ranged slot (so I don't lose tp) is a pretty big deal.

1) 5/5 Tomahawk
2) 5/5 Savagery
3) 1/5 Tomahawk, 4/5 Savagery




Question 2: In The Name of Haste

I'm trying to decide which of these two gear sets to tp in for waist/neck/back. As things currently stand I am at 17% haste from the Swift Belt and Perle Hauberk Set.

1) Chivalrous Chain, Amemet Mantle +1, Swift Belt (total haste 17%)
Haste 4%
Acc 8
Att 10
Str 5
Store TP 1
Defense 12
Ratt 15

2) Tern Armor Set (total haste 19%)
Haste 6% (0% unless wearing full set)
Acc 3
Att 3
Str 2
Dex 2
Vit 2
Defense 3
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#2 Aug 15 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thydonon wrote:
Question 1: Killing is Fun

For tier 1 merits I went 4 DA, 2 Berserk, Aggressor, Warcry. In the name of sanity I kept those three on the same timer and in one macro. I plan on going 5/5 Warrior's Charge, but I'm not sure what else to do. As near as I can tell there are three logical choices. One thing I cannot seem to find is if the Tomahawk item goes in the ranged or ammo slot. Macroing it into the ammo slot with the Bomb Core is fine, but giving up 12 attack to keep it in the ranged slot (so I don't lose tp) is a pretty big deal.

1) 5/5 Tomahawk
2) 5/5 Savagery
3) 1/5 Tomahawk, 4/5 Savagery
I believe Tomahawks are Ammo.

I'd also probably go with Option 3 just so that you have Tomahawk if it's ever needed. There may be times where it is.




Quote:
Question 2: In The Name of Haste

I'm trying to decide which of these two gear sets to tp in for waist/neck/back. As things currently stand I am at 17% haste from the Swift Belt and Perle Hauberk Set.

1) Chivalrous Chain, Amemet Mantle +1, Swift Belt (total haste 17%)
Haste 4%
Acc 8
Att 10
Str 5
Store TP 1
Defense 12
Ratt 15

2) Tern Armor Set (total haste 19%)
Haste 6% (0% unless wearing full set)
Acc 3
Att 3
Str 2
Dex 2
Vit 2
Defense 3
I am pretty certain that the Tern set is junk. Pick up a PCC with that money.

Also, Perle gives 14% total haste for Set 1 to be 18% and Set 2 to be 20%; the head's got a typo on it.
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#3 Aug 15 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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3 and 1.

Tomahawks are definitely ammo. The ability is rarely used for its effect, but it's a nice hate tool. Just drop one merit in it to unlock it and put the rest into Savagery.
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#4 Aug 15 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Brutally honest, I'd ditch the Warcry merits. Too big a cost for too little a gain.
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#5 Aug 16 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Brutally honest, I'd ditch the Warcry merits. Too big a cost for too little a gain.
This.
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#6 Aug 16 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Brutally honest, I'd ditch the Warcry merits. Too big a cost for too little a gain.
This.

And if you want to preserve your sanity, just pretend Warcry doesn't exist, instead of macroing it together with Berserk and Aggressor. Or macro it with your WS, if you're feeling gutsy and/or suicidal.
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#7 Aug 16 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Brutally honest, I'd ditch the Warcry merits. Too big a cost for too little a gain.
This.

And if you want to preserve your sanity, just pretend Warcry doesn't exist, instead of macroing it together with Berserk and Aggressor. Or macro it with your WS, if you're feeling gutsy and/or suicidal.


This. All of this.

Ditch Warcry merits. I have a macro with Warcry + Warrior's Charge for when i wanna look at bigger numbers.
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#8 Aug 16 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or even better, you can use Warcry as an extra hate tool. If it hits all people in the party it equals the same amount of enmity as Provoke.
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#9 Aug 16 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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I've always used warcry... guess I should take a look at the numbers. Normally I'm good at math, but when I try to do ffxi math I always seem to ***** it up. Oh well, here goes.

At level 75 warcry raised attack just shy of 9% for the entire party, and lasts 30 seconds. Assuming the tank damage output sucks and the healer isn't trying to do any damage, you're buffing four people.

So four people get a roughly 4% damage buff for 30 seconds. The two merits reduce the recast timer by 20 seconds, which is a 20/(5*60) bonus to the damage. That's about 7% more damage.

Putting it all together:
Warcry, no merits: 4% damage buff for 30 sec/5 minutes
Warcry, no merits: 0.04*30/(5*60)
Warcry, no merits: 0.4% damage over time buff

Warcry, with two merits: 4% damage buff for 30 sec/4:40
Warcry, with two merits: 0.04*30/(4*60+40)
Warcry, with two merits: 0.43% damage over time buff


omg, did I do that right? That actually makes me sad, no joke. Please tell me I did that wrong. I want to be wrong about this.






The other things I guess I could do are 4/3/3 or 5/2/2 with one just left over (because I would rather hang myself from a @#%^ing tree than not have Berserk and Aggressor on the same timer).

5/2/2: Let's see, adding 1% DA, when I already have so much from merits and gear, will be pretty weak. I have Pole Grip, Brutal, and 4 merits already, so that's 21% right there. 1% more DA will increase damage by (100-21-1)/100 = 0.78%

4/3/3: So, if adding 10 more seconds of Bergressor nets me more than 0.78% damage over time increase than adding a 22nd point of Double Attack then 4/3/3 will surpass 5/2/2. Worst case senario for this build, acc capped: aggressor becomes worthless, and berserk is all I get. Basically, is 10 seconds of berserk worth more or less than the 22nd point of Double Attack.

So, 25% attack is going to be about 12% damage boost, and the merit will reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds.

Curiously, the damage boost of berserk drops out of the equation when you compare merit levels. Let the damage boost from Berserk = b. Then let 1+b = B. In this if Berserk gave a 20% boost then B would be 120%.

4:30 damage output: [(B * 180 seconds) + (100% * 90 seconds)]/270 seconds
4:40 damage output: [(B * 180 seconds) + (100% * 100 seconds)]/280 seconds

Starting with the 4:30 equation:
(180B seconds + 90 seconds)/270 seconds
(180B + 90)/270
(2B + 1)/3

Now, the 4:40 equation:
(180B seconds + 100 seconds)/280 seconds
(180B + 100)/280
(9B + 5)/14

Now, to compare them, you put them together as a ratio

(2B+1)/3
---------
(9B+5)/14

When b (not B) is 12%, as in Berserk boosts your damage by 12%, then the damage increase over time is 3.28%. 4 DA + 3 Berserk > 5 DA + 2 Berserk

So 4/3/3 is the way to go.

Did I do that right?

Edited, Aug 16th 2010 7:42pm by Thydonon

Edited, Aug 16th 2010 7:43pm by Thydonon

Edited, Aug 16th 2010 7:44pm by Thydonon
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#10 Aug 17 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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The method I'm not bothered with, but the end result looks about right.
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#11 Aug 17 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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If you're Great Axe Onry (A stance I'm vehemently against), then 5/5 Double Attack/Berserk is the optimum build. If you're "Everything-and-the-kitchen-sink" then 5/5 Bergressor is the way to go. Usually the kitchen sink involves a multi-hit blender of some sort, mind you.
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#12 Aug 17 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
If you're Great Axe Onry (A stance I'm vehemently against), then 5/5 Double Attack/Berserk is the optimum build. If you're "Everything-and-the-kitchen-sink" then 5/5 Bergressor is the way to go. Usually the kitchen sink involves a multi-hit blender of some sort, mind you.


While gaxe is correct in this instance, i wend with 4/3/3 on DA, Zerk, Agressor.

The reason for this is that i wanted to have DA (because of Gaxe) and i wanted zerk and agressor timers to match so i could stick them both in a single macro.

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#13 Aug 17 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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I went 4/3/3 since I wanted timers the same but it also lets me make up for the acc loss in my KJ build which I use primarily when bergressor is up. Since KJ gets more benefit from the attack boost of berserk anyway, having aggressor up at the same time lets me take advantage of its 50% str mod by overloading with str (I think I have like 139 str before food). Then I just use RR for when its down in a set that has similar acc to my TP build. Thats just my take on it.

As for question 2, the amount of stats lost dont equal the amoun gained. Dont use tern set
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#14 Aug 19 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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5/5 Berserk, 5/5 Double Attack is better than any other combination regardless of your choice of weapons. You need to be averaging more than 2 attacks per round with a multihit weapon in order for DA to not win. Berserk beats everything. Hasn't this been stickied?
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#15 Aug 20 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I figured everyone knew that 5/5 DA/Berserk was the best, I just said what I did as I am in the group that likes shared timers. Although the difference is quite small anyways so in all actuality its not a big deal either way. I mainly like it for the shared timers and the fact that I can be more liberal with my KJ build focusing more on str/attack instead of acc when bergressor is up. It seems like every event I do I am with an Atonement using Pld or my wifes Sam so I opt for KJ more as it usually leads to a light SC which is just some icing on the cake (no I dont often hold back just to WS, but will do it if we happen to line up tp).
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#16 Aug 21 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, I've been letting everyone's advice roll around in my head for the last few days. I've found myself landing on a third question.

If I'm cutting warcry merits, and being told by many that they don't use warcry at all, why is 4/5 Savagery recommended?

Thanks in advance.
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#17 Aug 22 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
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WAR Group two merits suck ***. Warrior's Charge the only one that really benefits from being maxed out, and Tomohawk has limited enough use that you will never find yourself wanting to spam it. All that's left of any use is Warcry.
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BG elitists <3 haste.

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kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#18 Aug 23 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Ok, I've been letting everyone's advice roll around in my head for the last few days. I've found myself landing on a third question.

If I'm cutting warcry merits, and being told by many that they don't use warcry at all, why is 4/5 Savagery recommended?

Thanks in advance.
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#19 Aug 23 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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From group 2, we have 4 choices:

Warrior's Charge: Its not good. No, it isnt. Except when you are doing a 300tp Steel cyclone it really isnt a very good ability, but it is by far the best of our cat2 merits. And thats why a lot of us have 5/5 on it.

Tomahawk: Most times, its just meh. Sometimes it is very good. Worth enough to put have 1 merit on it and carry around a stack of tomahawks, but not much more than that.

Savagery: This is a bad waste of merit points. Benefit is very marginal, and the ability itself is worth very little with how little our WSes scale with tp gain. It is still better than Agressive aim.

Agressive Aim: We have a contender for the most useless merit on FFXI here.



So what you usually see is 5/5 Warrior's Charge, at least 1 in tomahawk and the rest in savagery.
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#20 Aug 23 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Warrior's Charge: Its not good. No, it isnt. Except when you are doing a 300tp Steel cyclone it really isnt a very good ability, but it is by far the best of our cat2 merits. And thats why a lot of us have 5/5 on it.


Actually, while it can be nice for WS'ing, the better use is often to hasten the next WS. Miss a hit and get a crappy TP return? Warrior's Charge. Want to make sure you DA and get another WS in under 2hr? Warrior's Charge.

It would be 10x better if the timer was much shorter, but as it is it's possibly better than given credit for.
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#21 Aug 23 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thydonon wrote:
If I'm cutting warcry merits, and being told by many that they don't use warcry at all, why is 4/5 Savagery recommended?

It's probably just for completion's sake. If you get some satisfaction out of completing group 2 merits, then go for it. I don't feel the need to do so at this point, and I have plenty of other jobs to dump merits into. So after 5/5 Warrior's Charge and 1/5 Tomahawk, I probably won't even bother with the 4 remaining group 2 merit upgrades.
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#22 Aug 23 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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I used to stress out over mismatched Bergressor timers, but I finally merited myself 5/5DA 5/5Berserk and it's really not a big deal, I got used to it pretty quickly. With Pizza I don't find ACC to be a big problem, even when Dual-Wielding, and if it is you can always swap to more ACC gear and/or toss on a Great Axe. (No I'm not knocking DW, but if your ACC doesn't support it you have other weapon options.)

Group 2 everyone is right, 5/5 Warrior's Charge, 1 Tomahawk, 4/5 Savagery mainly for lack of better options.
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#23 Aug 23 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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NCCoda wrote:
I used to stress out over mismatched Bergressor timers, but I finally merited myself 5/5DA 5/5Berserk and it's really not a big deal, I got used to it pretty quickly.

I suppose it's not a big deal to continue to macro both Berserk and Aggressor together, and then hit that macro at the beginning of every fight (in a merit/exp situation). Whatever is ready fires. Whatever isn't simply doesn't. Life goes on.

Was that your solution? Or do you just watch the different timers?
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#24 Aug 24 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Was that your solution? Or do you just watch the different timers?


I just watch the different timers. With few exceptions (Like prepping for an Einherjar boss or something) I'm riding Berserk and Aggressor and hitting them as soon as they're ready.
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#25 Aug 24 2010 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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Savagery are a lot like STR merits for Warrior. They're overpriced, barely useful, and the last things you should think about when it comes to completing your merits, but they're pretty much the only options to put merits in left in their respective categories.
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#26 Aug 25 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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For merits, I'm doing 4/3/3 for the sake of the fact that I have a lot of **** to skill up still, and with abyssea, changing 3 aggressor merits into 2 berserk and 1 double attack merit would be hard after I'm done. I cried after I hit level 76 on war and every skill (except evasion, lolmnk75) turned white. When I hit 80, and saw that every skill was white (except evasion, lolmnk75), I cried again. Crying twice in the same party makes me a sad galka.

Oh, and for group two, I wanna merit aggressive aim for skilling up my marks, archery, and throwing, I have a pretty solid RAcc set up atm, but given that marks/archery cost money every time I shoot....WHAT!?
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