5-hit build on Great Axe?Follow

I was looking at 5-hit builds for my Sam and Drk, and now I'm wondering if it's possible on War with a 102 dmg Bonesplitter or 97 dmg Store TP Sumeru?

In order to get a 5hit with the STP GA, you need 52 total STP

With a normal GA you need 46.

If it is even possible you are going to end up having to use some weird gear, lets see

/SAM : 15
Rajas: 5
Aurumn: 7
Rose: 4
Goading: 5
Brutal: 1

All of the above is still only +37. It is +43 if you are using the STP GA. Still need quite a bit, and starting to really sacrifice stats for STP after the gear I mentioned above. Could add in stuff like Ecphoria(1), White tathlum(2), and the Hoard ring(4). Even with that you need 8 more. Carbonara is 6... so getting close, add in.. a Fourth division mantle and you -technically- have it. However, I can't imagine that giving up that much gear is worth the 5 hit.

Either way, the amount of gear you need to do it, regardless of the axe, seems to be giving up way to much in the way of other stats to be useful.

Edited, Jul 27th 2010 4:40pm by ShamanTaru

Need 27 STP for 6 hit on 488 delay GA

15 /SAM
5 Rajas
1 Brutal
6 Carbonara / 7 Aurumn body

27/28 And not giving up to much or anything if you eat the carb.


Edited, Jul 28th 2010 12:47am by ShamanTaru

Is there anything inherently wrong with a 6-hit that's also fast and furious?

At that point it might be a "5-hit plus 1/2/3-whiff" build.

Heavy Darksteel Axe lv59 dmg85 delay529

it would be much easier to try and hit the 5 hit with this axe. however, is it worth using a 85dmg gaxe?

What he said.

Correct me if i'm wrong, RR/KJ are 3hit WS so you should only need 44STP for a Delay:504 Gaxe, 45STP Assuming one of the hits misses.

Hello all I am a Bravura user and I have a 5 hit build. Heres what I use:

Samurai Sub STP+15
Hachiryu Hands
Hachiryu Legs {STP+10 for 3 pieces of Hachiryu}
Hachiryu Feet
Aurumn Body STP+7
Rajas Ring STP+5
Rose Strap STP+4
White Tathlum STP+2
Brutal Earring STP+1
Atilla Earring STP+1
Ecphoria Earring STP+1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carbonarra(Food) STP+6

All of this together nets +52 STP while allowing for an almost unaltered WS set. Macroing in Hands and Feet for more STR will drop the STP value, yes but if one is using Raging Rush or King's Justice (Raging Rush is my WS of choice ever since Critical Attack Trait lol) you will recieve more than 20% TP return with 2-3 hits as long as the first doesnt miss; Granting you a 5/4-hit.

This Set noticably trades off 10% Haste for 10% WS Frequency. This will drop one's Damage over Time Slightly but for those who are powerful WSer's this combo is quite nice, mobs only have so much HP, and a good WS can usually yank 25% - 75% of a mob's HP depending on what your fighting so having TP at one's finger tips can actually cheat other people out of a parse since they wont be able to get any hits in lol. But these days its all about abyssea anyway idk if I'd wanna try parsing an alliance idk about you guys.

Also, this set is done with really high end s*** but thats the bullet I have to bite for owning a Bravura. If you have a completed Sumaru, you can keep Hachi Legs for a WS piece and keep the Byakko Haidate for an extra 5% Haste, and can sub +1STP from either an Atilla Earring or that Ecphoria Ring for something you like better. A Goading Belt would also work (I'd be using one but I dont have one yet lol) Hachiryu Body would also be lovely but again, Dream on lol.

Hope this info helps some.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 11:08pm by Yandaime

Alot of it depends on the situation. Lets say your out doing a Nyzul Isle run or Limbus/Dynamis. Having TP at your finger tips would be the best thing so you can quickly swat mobs away and move on. But to answer your question:

in my Haste settup, I have 21%(20%) Haste as a 6/5 and in my STP set I have 11%(10%) Haste as a 5/4 so I lose 10% Haste

These will be perfect scenarios where one is never hasted, and one never misses just for an estimation under perfect conditions.

~~There are 3600 seconds in an hour, Bravura's Delay is 488. Every 60 DEL = 1 Second
~~~I will assume an Average strike damage of 200 and again at 275
~~~I will use Metatron Torment as the WS since its probably the most simplistic and almost the same strength as Kings Justice.
~~~Metatron Torment's Mods are [DMG]x2.85 at all TP ranges STR60%. fSTR will be assumed as +80 (+48%) Gorget is in effect
~~~Assumed that Double Attack never procs
Torment will do around 844 Damage when hitting 200
Torment will do around 1160 Damage when hitting 275

21%(20%) Set: DEL = 390 = 6.5 Sec per swing = 553 Swings per hour
This set is a 6/5 so I would get 110 WSs in 1 Hour at most
This will give me 110,600 Melee Damage Per Hour and 92,840 WS Damage
~Total of 203,440 Damage per hour when hitting 200~

11%(10%) Set: DEL = 439 = 7.3 Sec per swing = 493 Swings per hour
This set is a 5/4 so I would get 123 WSs in 1 Hour at most
This will give me 98,600 Melee Damage Per Hour and 103,812 WS Damage
~Total of 202,412 Damage per Hour when hitting 200~

A 1.51% Difference in the Haste Set's Favor. Not very large given this runs through an hour.

==Now when we run that same "perfect" scenario when hitting 275==

21%(20%) Set: DEL = 390 = 6.5 Sec per swing = 553 Swings per hour
This set is a 6/5 so I would get 110 WSs in 1 Hour at most
This will give me 152,075 Melee Damage Per Hour and 127,600 WS Damage
~Total of 279,675 per Hour when hitting 275~

11%(10%) Set: DEL = 439 = 7.3 Sec per swing = 493 Swings per hour
This set is a 5/4 so I would get 123 WSs in 1 Hour at most
This will give me 135,575 Melee Damage Per Hour and 142,680 WS Damage
~Total of 278,255 Damage per Hour when hitting 275~

A Difference of 1.51% again.

As it stands, the Damage Outputs of both settups is nearly identical with the Faster set beeing only just barely, like wow thats not even an Inch, more Potent. However, this was done with a WS that is very clean and doesnt jump around. Now if we tried this with Raging Rush (its so awesome after this last update) You will probably see some interesting changes. My RR's currently average 1400 with spikes of 1700-2200 not too rarely. Idk about other WARs. And also considering that the two sets are nearly tied, I would have to say I favor the STP set just because of the situational usefulness of having TP all the time lol. Now if I get a Goading Belt, its over. With that Belt, Ill be able to close the Haste gap and still keep the really high WS Frequency.

**These were simulated tests run in a relatively perfect situation where no one ever misses and no randomness occurs. I prefer doing this rather than parsing cuz again, I dont like randomness lol**

hope this helps


Edited, Sep 4th 2010 11:31am by Yandaime

Some people put time into getting great gear and some people put time into understanding how it works. A good mix of both works best it would seem.

going from a 6hit to 5hit is a 16.7% increase in ws frequency if my numbers are right. it seems like a good trade off for 16.7% increase compared to 10% haste. but if you start getting high haste: marches, hasso, dnc, haste im thinking that 10% will start to make a big difference. little ffxicalculator math is showing you'd need 14% haste to cap and thats pretty much what you'd be missing by using 5hit. im sure there's a cut off where 5hit>haste and vice versa.

Yeah this is one of those cases in which the sacrifice does not add up to the benefit. 10% haste (12% if he got Dusk Gloves +1 and Blitz Ring) and 25 acc and 20 attack is HUGE to give up. That is giving up a lot of DoT to WS more (which you are also giving up some damage in your WS set). Another thing to think about is that since Relics can't proc a triple damage on a WS, you only see that benefit during your DoT. So giving up more melee swings is going to lower your DoT even more due to not getting as many procs (this is a smaller increase but still there).

So here is a little breakdown for each loss:

11% haste to 23% haste is a 15.6% increase to DoT/WSfreq.
20 attack is roughly a 3% increase to DoT.
25 acc (if you get full benefit from it) is a 15.2% increase to Dot/WSfreq [going from 82.5% hit rate to 95%].

In a lot of older content you are probably beyond capped acc so you are still losing damage without any haste. Add any outside haste and this gap becomes larger and larger. The harder the content, the more the acc will come into play and again grow this gap. Also, the second set allows you to eat whatever food you want, so if high amounts of acc is needed you can switch to pizza (or sushi if crazy amount of acc is needed) or you could eat a more powerful attack food.

I think that with the December update(lvl 90 and possible new trials), a +2 version of the Sumeru+1 STP could allow us to get a 5-hit build without losing any haste ^^

Let's see:

/sam : 15 STP
Sumeru +1: 11 STP
Rose strap: 4 STP
Brutal earring: 1 STP
Chivalrous chain: 1 STP
Aurum cuirass: 7 STP
Rajas ring: 5 STP
Bellenos mantle: +2 STP
Carbonara: 6 STP

Which ends up to 52 STP for a guetto 5hit build at 85 using carbonara food...doable but probably better on a 6hit since most AF3 have a sh*tload of Double attack on it...