pole warFollow

so i was curious about penta build on war i have 8/8 pole merits and 0/8 GA as i lvl'd war because i have ares and cuz its fairly useful in salvage....but anywho...this is a polearm build question for bird camp.....on sam i generally lean towards attk then stack str then dex and use sushi....but theres a few differences gear wise....war can heca sam cant sam can get 20 attk from gloves and 7 acc/attk from feet and war cant....and war can wear ares and sam cant.....which all of that is obvious anyways.....this is my gear tp and penta....plz tell me wut to change etc to get the most outta penta build

tp
engetsuto/pole/x/bomblet
askar/pcc/minuet/brutal
hauby+1/dusk/iota/rajas
cuch/swift/byakkos/aurum

penta
engetsuro(+6 WS acc evolith)/pole/x/bomblet
heca/gorget/aesir(+7attk)/brutal
hauby +1/heca/flame/rajas
cerb+1/virtuoso/heca/heca

i was thinkin bout maybe goin attk heavy and trying sushi since the above build ive always used meat with and acc is 90% or so...something like:

x/x/x/bomb core
ares/gorget/aesir/brutal
ares/relic/flame/rajas
cerb+1/virtuoso/heca/aurum

anyways sry for rambling.....tired and wanted to get this posted b4 i sleep so ill have some responses in the mornin....thanks in advance!

ok theres one helpless post....now how bout some1 who actually has some advice on my gear? ^^

This, I'm afraid. Swapping to polearm lowers your Accuracy, lowers your Attack, lowers your weapon's base damage, kills your 6-hit, and if I'm honest with you, turns you into a wannabe-SAM.

It can work, but Great Axe should be a safer bet.

It's possible to still retain a 6 hit build as /SAM with a 480 delay weapon. Just need to gear yourself a little differently.

Example:

Engetsuto
Ecphoria Ring
Attila's Earring
Rose Strap
Rajas Ring
Brutal Earring
Chivalrous Chain

It's actually not that hard to pull off 90-93% accy with ~26 in accy gear,~26 dex from gear, and crab sushi. For birds anyways. >_<"

Even so...I would probably still go Great axe and eat attack food. >_>"

Agreed, but until sufficiently well geared, surely Great Axe is just safer.

At which point you should probably have just leveled Dragoon.

Unless you're just super bored with the game, why pretend to be the -1 version of another job?

You use these too f*cking much. It's annoying to read. Type like a normal human being.

This. Overusing ellipses makes you look like a petulant twelve-year-old.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 4:28pm by Lucinus

The TP gear you listed puts you around ~88% accuracy with a 7 hit. While I get you don't want to use great axe you at least need to figure out how you would match a 6 hit build with 95% accuracy capable of eating meat.

If you used a rose strap and got hit once or had a 4/5 penta return you could get a 6 hit. Chiv chain or e. ring would help ensure that.

Also...I think your WS set actually has less accuracy...than your TP set...so you might want to change that...cause WSing in below 85% accuracy is very silly...especially when your TP set has more accuracy.

Honestly never been impressed by a weapon that sacrifices ~10% base damage, @#%^s up your 6-hit build, and has 20-54 less skill just for that 25% piercing bonus. Especially when it puts you in food limbo where you're not low enough accuracy to really use sushi, but too low for meat.

(lern2codetags)

Interesting, because I have WAR and DRG at 75 as well, and my DRG obliterates my polearm WAR at birds. Only primary difference would be that I have a PCC not a chiv chain, but a NQ hauby. The only job that comes close to my DRG now is my PUP because of the PUPdate, which imo says quite a bit (to me, at least).

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 12:38am by bsphil

lol really its kinda funny how far off a topic people can get....u badger the way i type like this is a damn english paper...i mean really who cares...if u dont like it...then dont read my post.....if u dont have advice on the questions i ask....dont post.....im not saying it will be better than my drg cuz it want....but it is pretty solid so if u think ur war or sam can outparse mine with a pole....be my guest to try....im on bismarck....my name is mooze....im sure some1 could step up.....and ty for the few people that actually gave useful info =)



Edited, Apr 29th 2010 3:27am by BiggHowie

A proper war pole build can smash the sh*t out of gaxe or dragoon on things like a DL zerg. I know that wasn't the point of your post but I thought I'd just mention.

LOL thats rich.

i think its because war is supposed to be the master of all weapons but, due to game mechanics, they end up just being good at one (great axe), just like all the other jobs. not to say war can't put up good numbers with other weapon types, just that they get the best numbers with their best weapon. since wars job is to do the most dmg possible, the most logical thing to do would be use their best weapon.

the same people who get mad when asking which weapon to use are also usually the type who get mad when people say rdms should stay a back line job and not try to melee. its not that rdm can't melee, its that it is a support role and gets the most utility when using its support abilities and spells.

It's not a smash the sh*t out of Gaxe, but it is better for me.

For the numbers of it, I'll have to use me as a basis (Galka, crit 4/4, STR merits, pole 4/8, Gaxe 8/8, Zerk merits 5/5, DA merits 5/5 vs 81.5 birds (67 VIT,324.5 def w/ -0.325 lvl correction)
Haste,H.Samba,Marchx2,Hasso,Dia2 (def 293 avg) (I'm leaving off warcry from all setups, cuz it matters very little if I leave off of both sets)

Pole TP(squid): Gondo/Rose/Bombcore
Turban/Chiv/Fowling/Brutal
Hauberk+1/Dusk/Rajas/Flame
Foragers/Swift/B.Hiadate/Aurum

STR 80+5(hasso)+23 = 108 (D=11)
DEX 68+6(squid)+29 = 103 (Crit = 14%+6%Gondo=20%)
Att 248(skill)+8(base)+10(trait)+81(STR)+44(eq)= 391 (488)
Acc 243(skill)+10(hasso)+77(DEX)+28(eq) = 358x1.16(squid) = 415 (cap at 407)
Adjusted Hit rate including 25% zanshin = 96.1875%
Avg Ratio (zerk down, 20% crit) = 1.209
Avg Ratio (Zerk up, 20% crit) = 1.541
Adjusted Ratio for 72% Zerk up/28% down = 1.448

Avg TP Damage per WS round: 1.448 x 1.25(p) x (85+11) = 173.73 x 5 hits to WS = 868.63

Pole WS(penta w/squid): Gondo/Rose/Bombcore
Aurum/K.bead/Fowling/Brutal
Hauberk+1/Alky/Rajas/Flame
Foragers/Warwolf/B.Hiadate/Rutter

STR 80+5+46= 131 (D=17, 20% STR mod = 21)
DEX 68+6+29= 103 (20% DEX MOD = 16)
Att 248+8+10+98+48 = 412 (515 zerk)
Avg Ratio (zerkup/zerkdown) = 1.3342
Avg WS damage (includes 20% DA for first 2 hits): 5.44x1.3342x1.25(p)x0.95(acc) (85+17+21+16)= 1198.03

WS/melee round time(74%haste): (480/60)/0.9618(acc)/1.2(DA) x (284/1024)(haste) x 5(hits per round) +2 (ws animation) = 11.61 Seconds/Round

Damage per second (868.63+1198.03)/11.61 = 178.01

Perdu TP (meat mith): Perdu/Pole/Bombcore
Turban/Chiv/Fowling/Brutal
Hauberk+1/Dusk/Rajas/Uthalum
Foragers/Swift/B.Hiadate/Aurum

STR 80+5(meat)+5(hasso)+18 = 108 (D=11)
DEX 68+29 = 97 (Crit 12%)
ACC 282(skill)+10(hasso)+72(dex)+37(gear)= 401
Adjusted hit rate(includes aggr/zanshin/both levels of birds)= 95.73%
Att 292+8+10+81+58 = 449(+60good) (561+60 zerk+food)
Ratio (zerkdown,12% crit) = 1.532
Ratio (Zerkup,12% crit) = 1.914
Adjusted Ratio (zerkup/down) = 1.807
Avg melee damage per WS round: 1.807(96+11) = 193.4 x 5(hits) = 966.9

Perdu WS(KJ+meat): Perdu/Pole/Bombcore
Aurum/Soil/Fowling/Brutal
Hauberk+1/Alky/Rajas/Flame
Foragers/Warwolf/B.Hiadate/Aurum

STR 80+5+5+39 = 129 (D=16, 50% str mod = 53)
DEX 68+28=96
Acc 282+10+72+39 = 403 (94.6% adjusted for bird levels)
Att 292+8+10+96+58 = 464(+60) (580+60zerk)
Adjusted Ratio (zerkup/down) = 1.748
Avg WS damage(includes soil and 22% DA for first 2hits): 1.78 x 0.946(acc)x 3.54 (96+16+53) = 983.6

Time per melee/WS round: (504/60)/0.9573(acc)/1.22(DA) x (284/1024)haste x 5(hits per WS) +2 (WS animation) = 11.97s

Damage per second (983.6+966.9)/11.97 = 162.94


So thats what I come up with. I'm sure some tweaking could put perdu ahead, but this is the gear I have to work with. So about 9% better for Gondo over Perdu for me.

Sorry if it looks messy; I didnt do well in art class.







Edited, Apr 29th 2010 9:06pm by doctorugh

Aw, I thought you were refering to my comment on birds....oh well, wasted math....

Lmao, why'd you come here again?

This is fairly interesting. I have anecdotally noticed lesser damage on Penta than the numbers I put above would indicate. Looking at some parses I've got on this, it might be as much as 20%.

even with this attk penalty the last bird pt i parsed i had a penta avg of 1200+ and something like 90% acc using meat and completely destroyed a full usu pole sam and a GA war. my GA avg is nowhere remotely close to that

Edited, May 2nd 2010 3:13pm by BiggHowie

fixed. this is why parsing with people to show things about weapons or jobs doesn't matter.

Because once you exceed enough accuracy for 95% hit rate the added accuracy is a waste?

Basically in order to get to 82.5% hitrate with sushi means wearing 0 acc gear. Polearm + haidate/rajas/squid/hasso is 82% accuracy alone. If you're using swift belt, aurum boots, etc you've already overshot that range where you're fully benefiting.

Obviously if you're at 94% accuracy aggressor will help, but it's no where near as big of an improvement as another war *cough meat GA* capable of getting that full 25 accuracy out of it. Seeing as you can keep it up 60% of the time, that's pretty substantial.



Blitz ring will do you more good in a solid merit party. If you need accuracy sniper's+1/toreador's ring is better. If you don't need the accuracy use a flame ring. Thunder ring would be more helpful as a hybrid for a crit build. Ulthalam's, like woodsman and snipers, is just a cheap option as a bare minimum.

Assault earring should be giving you more benefit than fowling's because as I pointed out above, accuracy isn't really a concern for merit parties. If you need accuracy hollow would be a better choice. If you use spell cast you can make use of fenrir's earring. Fowling isn't bad per say, just that there are better options out there.

Note that accuracy isn't an issue because we're talking about polearm war. Typically this is only used against greater colibri, which aren't evasive OR in zergs where you have soul voiced madrigals and feint. Outside of those two situations (+that weakness limbus) there really isn't a standard for using polearm and therefore accuracy is not a serious concern.

And here I came to this thread hoping to improve my pole.
Come to find out this is about poleARMS..... /sigh.

Last time I was at birds in a merit party on WAR, I ended up needing to switch to g.axe just so I could lower my damage output so that the other DDs in the party could keep up and I wouldn't have to spend the entire time tanking as /SAM.