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Ok this SAM thing is now ******* me offFollow

#1 Apr 17 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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Ok so everyone thinks SAM is like this god DD, at least the naive sheep in the FF community but twice now tonight, TWICE, I have been asked and then refused a merit party because I was lfp on WAR, and not SAM.

The basic tell was like,

Leader: "Party Do you need it?"
Me: "Yes please"
Leader: "You have SAM right?"
Me: "I'm on WAR, what camp btw?"
Leader: "Oh sorry we are looking for SAMs, bird camp, take care"

I thought it was a fluke, but it has happened twice in 4 hours, from 2 people who have no connection to each other. Seriously in what whacked out crazy backwards FF does SAM beat WAR in merits, gah! None of my friends are online and was just hoping to get a merit or two, in a pickup party, but NOOOO sorry guess not!

I'm not really looking for feedback on anything, and yes I know I'm just preaching to the choir, I just felt like venting. If anyone else wants to ***** about the annoying retarded FF population feel free, thanks for reading.



#2 Apr 17 2010 at 4:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samurai Fantasy IX. Get used to it. Not because Sam does more damage than War (It doesn't), but because that's what Joe the plumper bard honestly believes.



Edited, Apr 17th 2010 2:28pm by Demonviper
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#3 Apr 17 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMO, its probably based on people's previous experience.

I've been in quite a few merit parties with 6 jobs fully merited and I've noticed:

Gimp SAM > Gimp WAR

Quality WAR > Quality SAM

It may have to do with the higher zanshin rate if you dont have good acc gear. Also WS are more consistent for SAM without merits in GKT.






Edited, Apr 17th 2010 7:49am by doctorugh
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#4 Apr 17 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eh, the same thing happened to me when I was lfg on War recently. After examining me about 15 times, the guy goes to me "I see you have 75 Drg. I suggest you change to that." o.O

This was before we had a camp and before we were even 6/6... It surprised the **** out of me, but I changed to Drg since we were headed to bird camp and all. It just kinda bugged me cuz I wanted to play War since I hadn't merited on it in a while.
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#5 Apr 17 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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This is why I always merit with at least two people I know. Avoids all this ********* and at least I know I'm not going to be meriting with a whole party of f*ckwits.
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#6 Apr 17 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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This is why I will not invite more than one non-Warrior DD to my merit party on Corsair.

Paybacks!

Plus there is only about one non-War DD on any server that is actually good!
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#7 Apr 17 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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heck recent invite had me saying the folowwing to the reply of "Jobs?"

"I got DRG MNK and SAM available atm, DRG"s my best geared, SAM is meh, and MNK is in the middle of the two" (Yes i said all that in my reply)

guess which job i was told to bring...

yeah... i guess a non-hagun assault jerkin wearing SAM > than a full homam, 4/5 heca DRG with a augmented fay lance, Drakesbane+Light Gorget?

Well the set up worked but.. well, you know... that's not really the point... It;s one thing for something to simply work and another for it to "kick some ***"

last i checked... I liked kicking *** ^ ^

Wasn't my set up so I just rolled with it, next time i'll just leave out the SAM part even if it does deny me PT entry, time to reply to another shout in WG XD
#8 Apr 17 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Generally speaking, most WARs I've partied with have been pretty unimpressive. So have SAMs, to be fair. DRG or bust. _(._.)_

In reality, if I know the person is a good player, he can come on whatever DD job he wants to merit on, and we'll still get fantastic exp.

Edited, Apr 17th 2010 2:56pm by bsphil
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#9 Apr 17 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Default
its prolly because a pole sam build only takes having a polearm....having dirt cheap AH gear....and having sushi....**** i did bird pts at 70 sam and could consistantly throw out 1k pentas....war takes having at least a small idea of how to gear....and any drg without drakesbane is more than likely crap....its not cause ur war blows.....its cause the likelyhood of getting a decent sam is greater than getting a decent war...really lame it has come down to that lol
#10 Apr 17 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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its prolly because a pole sam build only takes having a polearm....having dirt cheap AH gear....and having sushi....**** i did bird pts at 70 sam and could consistantly throw out 1k pentas....war takes having at least a small idea of how to gear....

You could say the same for WAR tho. SAM and WAR have exacly the same rating in Polearm, just you see more pole sams cause going from GKT to Polearm on birds is a good damage jump, while going from gax to polearm might not even be better on war.
#11 Apr 17 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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You could say the same for WAR tho. SAM and WAR have exacly the same rating in Polearm...


Sam gets overwhelm though.
#12 Apr 17 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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Satonaka wrote:
heck recent invite had me saying the folowwing to the reply of "Jobs?"

"I got DRG MNK and SAM available atm, DRG"s my best geared, SAM is meh, and MNK is in the middle of the two" (Yes i said all that in my reply)

guess which job i was told to bring...

yeah... i guess a non-hagun assault jerkin wearing SAM > than a full homam, 4/5 heca DRG with a augmented fay lance, Drakesbane+Light Gorget?


I stopped counting after two hands, the number of times I've been replaced as War Corsair by a Samurai, when I told the party leader I had to leave.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of times there were already 2 gimps wearing great katanas in the party.

I think I'm just going to fake d/c if the party doesn't have 1 of:

-Brd
-Dnc
-Rdm or Smn or Sch or Whm
-War (me or someone else)
-Cor (me or someone else)
-leech spot, but hopefully a 2nd fine War


Logiks wrote:
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You could say the same for WAR tho. SAM and WAR have exacly the same rating in Polearm...


Sam gets overwhelm though.


Yeah but they also get ****** skill+100, which means that if they need to use a polearm in a party because they aren't meriting at MJSP...well make your own conclusions.

(Yes, it is past midnight and I'm getting there...

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 12:23am by TheBarrister
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#13 Apr 18 2010 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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Logiks wrote:
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You could say the same for WAR tho. SAM and WAR have exacly the same rating in Polearm...


Sam gets overwhelm though.


the sTP is more important.

i agree with bsphil, and i also agree that SAM is not the god DD (as i've been saying for years now). however, i will note that polearm SAM has more DD potential vs birds than WAR does if the party is well enough buffed. you might not like that fact, but it is a fact.
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#14 Apr 18 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
however, i will note that polearm SAM has more DD potential vs birds than WAR does if the party is well enough buffed. you might not like that fact, but it is a fact.


Given that I have yet to encounter this potential become reality, I'll accept that it potentially could exist =)
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#15 Apr 18 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
well if u take a pole sam with top of the line equipment and a pole war with top of the line equipment the sam should win....the meditates for 3 times as much tp every 2.5m vs the 60 tp evry 3mins, the 5 more str from hasso, the ability to ONLY spend 100 tp on a WS very 5 mins, and the 5hit build vs 6hit will outweigh the extra 5% DA and +20 acc 3/5ths of the time.....while a pole war should put out bigger numbers, sam puts way more of them out
#16 Apr 19 2010 at 3:54 AM Rating: Good
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BiggHowie wrote:
well if u take a pole sam with top of the line equipment and a pole war with top of the line equipment the sam should win....the meditates for 3 times as much tp every 2.5m vs the 60 tp evry 3mins, the 5 more str from hasso, the ability to ONLY spend 100 tp on a WS very 5 mins, and the 5hit build vs 6hit will outweigh the extra 5% DA and +20 acc 3/5ths of the time.....while a pole war should put out bigger numbers, sam puts way more of them out


of the things you mentioned, the 5hit aspect is the only one that really makes a difference.
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#17 Apr 19 2010 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
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To most events I usually go Sam while my friend goes War. Generally I comfortably outparse him on damage.

The one place I can't seem to beat him is in merits. I think the big difference is Retaliation. It adds a lot of extra damage from extra swings, which also give TP for more weaponskills. He normally ends up winning by a couple of percent.

I do only have 2 polearm merits, so capping that out could make the difference, but that is not going to happen until SE increases the combat skill merit cap. But even with those, it would be close on damage, so I don't see why people would turn down a well geared War for merits.
#18 Apr 19 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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To most events I usually go Sam while my friend goes War. Generally I comfortably outparse him on damage.

Comfortably outparse him? Do you guys use good support? In my shell our top DDs are always are our top two WARs(Minus some of our zerg fights where our KC DRK comes out top). I can believe that SAM could beat an equally equipped WAR with less support, since GKT big three ws excel in that scenario, but with good brds and cors I've rarely seen a SAM top an equally geared WAR.

Edit: Also what subs are you using? If you are comparing SAM/WAR vs WAR/NIN in events it's already a skewed comparison.

Edited, Apr 19th 2010 11:47am by Reynark
#19 Apr 19 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Personally, at events where we're all heavily buffed the 2 top wars in my LS outparse my sam (all with appropriate subs). Not by a huge margin, just a few %, but it's consistently so.
#20 Apr 19 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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yeah, when all the buffs/debuffs are appropriate and there's no piercing bonus, WAR just has a bigger damage potential than SAM. they can get comparable haste, but WARs melee DoT is better and their WS potential should be as well. one of the few people to convincingly outparse my MNK was a decked WAR.
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#21 Apr 19 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
most zerged fights the parses generally read, at least the ones ive ever parsed kclub drk>war>sam a time or 2 u see a polearm sam getting infront of the wars but for the most part the huge SC war should be starting out with is huge ground to recover
#22 Apr 19 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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WAR/SAM beats MNK/WAR in a zerg situation now? Awesome.
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#23 Apr 19 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
WAR/SAM beats MNK/WAR in a zerg situation now? Awesome.


Wait, are you being facetious?
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#24 Apr 19 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
WAR/SAM beats MNK/WAR in a zerg situation now? Awesome.


with enough haste, gear, buffs/debuffs, and aggressiveness, WAR/SAM should be competitive with all-out faith MNK/WAR in merits too (or to put it another way, all-out relic WAR should be competitive with all-out relic MNK). i actually don't know which one has more potential. realistically, as long as they both stay alive MNK/WAR would almost certainly win, though on paper (or with "maximum players" or whatever) i'm not sure. it would be moderately interesting to compare, but i can't get the interest up.

for zerg, i'd imagine it's something like kclub DRK, some manner of RNG, then the rest battle it out depending on how long the mob lives and how possible it is to get heavy buffs debuffs (SAM being king if the WS pDIF bonus matters the most). the RNG might also be situation dependent i guess. (shrug) hundred fists is more haste than WARs will have without haste samba, but if the mob dies quickly enough, even hundred fish with faith won't catch up to the opening burst of huge WAR WSs.
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#25 Apr 19 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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for zerg, i'd imagine it's something like kclub DRK, some manner of RNG, then the rest battle it out depending on how long the mob lives and how possible it is to get heavy buffs debuffs (SAM being king if the WS pDIF bonus matters the most). the RNG might also be situation dependent i guess. (shrug) hundred fists is more haste than WARs will have without haste samba, but if the mob dies quickly enough, even hundred fish with faith won't catch up to the opening burst of huge WAR WSs.

Uhhh in a maxed out haste zerg scenario, how exactly does a RNG surpass MNK, SAM or WAR?
#26 Apr 19 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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Reynark wrote:
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for zerg, i'd imagine it's something like kclub DRK, some manner of RNG, then the rest battle it out depending on how long the mob lives and how possible it is to get heavy buffs debuffs (SAM being king if the WS pDIF bonus matters the most). the RNG might also be situation dependent i guess. (shrug) hundred fists is more haste than WARs will have without haste samba, but if the mob dies quickly enough, even hundred fish with faith won't catch up to the opening burst of huge WAR WSs.

Uhhh in a maxed out haste zerg scenario, how exactly does a RNG surpass MNK, SAM or WAR?


Probably with EES and Barrage, assuming a very short fight (even by zerg standards)

Most zergs that I see have WAR or SAM at the top of the list (mnk or rng isnt close ime)





Edited, Apr 20th 2010 12:09am by doctorugh
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