Ok this SAM thing is now pissing me offFollow

Samurai Fantasy IX. Get used to it. Not because Sam does more damage than War (It doesn't), but because that's what Joe the plumper bard honestly believes.



Edited, Apr 17th 2010 2:28pm by Demonviper

Eh, the same thing happened to me when I was lfg on War recently. After examining me about 15 times, the guy goes to me "I see you have 75 Drg. I suggest you change to that." o.O

This was before we had a camp and before we were even 6/6... It surprised the sh*t out of me, but I changed to Drg since we were headed to bird camp and all. It just kinda bugged me cuz I wanted to play War since I hadn't merited on it in a while.

This is why I will not invite more than one non-Warrior DD to my merit party on Corsair.

Paybacks!

Plus there is only about one non-War DD on any server that is actually good!

Generally speaking, most WARs I've partied with have been pretty unimpressive. So have SAMs, to be fair. DRG or bust. _(._.)_

In reality, if I know the person is a good player, he can come on whatever DD job he wants to merit on, and we'll still get fantastic exp.

Edited, Apr 17th 2010 2:56pm by bsphil

You could say the same for WAR tho. SAM and WAR have exacly the same rating in Polearm, just you see more pole sams cause going from GKT to Polearm on birds is a good damage jump, while going from gax to polearm might not even be better on war.

I stopped counting after two hands, the number of times I've been replaced as War Corsair by a Samurai, when I told the party leader I had to leave.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of times there were already 2 gimps wearing great katanas in the party.

I think I'm just going to fake d/c if the party doesn't have 1 of:

-Brd
-Dnc
-Rdm or Smn or Sch or Whm
-War (me or someone else)
-Cor (me or someone else)
-leech spot, but hopefully a 2nd fine War




Yeah but they also get retard skill+100, which means that if they need to use a polearm in a party because they aren't meriting at MJSP...well make your own conclusions.

(Yes, it is past midnight and I'm getting there...

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 12:23am by TheBarrister

Given that I have yet to encounter this potential become reality, I'll accept that it potentially could exist =)

of the things you mentioned, the 5hit aspect is the only one that really makes a difference.

Comfortably outparse him? Do you guys use good support? In my shell our top DDs are always are our top two WARs(Minus some of our zerg fights where our KC DRK comes out top). I can believe that SAM could beat an equally equipped WAR with less support, since GKT big three ws excel in that scenario, but with good brds and cors I've rarely seen a SAM top an equally geared WAR.

Edit: Also what subs are you using? If you are comparing SAM/WAR vs WAR/NIN in events it's already a skewed comparison.

Edited, Apr 19th 2010 11:47am by Reynark

yeah, when all the buffs/debuffs are appropriate and there's no piercing bonus, WAR just has a bigger damage potential than SAM. they can get comparable haste, but WARs melee DoT is better and their WS potential should be as well. one of the few people to convincingly outparse my MNK was a decked WAR.

WAR/SAM beats MNK/WAR in a zerg situation now? Awesome.

with enough haste, gear, buffs/debuffs, and aggressiveness, WAR/SAM should be competitive with all-out faith MNK/WAR in merits too (or to put it another way, all-out relic WAR should be competitive with all-out relic MNK). i actually don't know which one has more potential. realistically, as long as they both stay alive MNK/WAR would almost certainly win, though on paper (or with "maximum players" or whatever) i'm not sure. it would be moderately interesting to compare, but i can't get the interest up.

for zerg, i'd imagine it's something like kclub DRK, some manner of RNG, then the rest battle it out depending on how long the mob lives and how possible it is to get heavy buffs debuffs (SAM being king if the WS pDIF bonus matters the most). the RNG might also be situation dependent i guess. (shrug) hundred fists is more haste than WARs will have without haste samba, but if the mob dies quickly enough, even hundred fish with faith won't catch up to the opening burst of huge WAR WSs.

Probably with EES and Barrage, assuming a very short fight (even by zerg standards)

Most zergs that I see have WAR or SAM at the top of the list (mnk or rng isnt close ime)





Edited, Apr 20th 2010 12:09am by doctorugh

This.

It is far harder to screw up on SAM than it is on WAR. To be a complete screw up on SAM you have to try really hard.

Most people are stupid enough that this alone is reason to prefer having SAMs over WARs or DRKs, even though both of those usually do better damage at birds than SAMs.

Excellent point, relic MNK is kinda meh.

Also if the war is /sam and hasso.......shouldnt really be that close. Running without Hasso puts them at even IME. (at least on birds, I like the consistency for parsing)

I might try to dig up some old parses later with war/sam vs standard good BB mnks and also vs some full usu mnks.

If I really want to merit on War (I also have well geared Drg) then I just make sure I post what gear I have in my seacom and dont mention to anyone that I have Drg leveled. If you have good gear then there is no reason someone should pass you up. If your gear is subpar and you have nothing to put in said seacom, well then it might not be so easy. I have gotten numerous party invites while not seeking by people just checking me or from people I have previously partied with. Make a good name for yourself and people will remember you and invite you.

Also, like most people have said, people believe Sam is idiot proof. This in NOT the case though as you can't fix a Shinsoku Sam.

Also....Drg's wearing AF at 75 are NOT acceptable. I have seen my wife party with a full AF Drg/war at 75. Needless to say they sucked horribly and my wife destroyed them (ironically on her sam lol).

I keep thinking of more stuff but I have seen people shouting for merits saying "DD {Can I have it?} Drg or Sam {Yes, please}" and I would shout back saying that Drg and Sam are not the only DD's out there. They just shouted back with "whatever, blah, blah, blah, sam and drg good, yadda, yadda." Some people are just dumbasses and will never learn, so I guess you just have to deal with it.

Meh.

I've personally had a ton of bad experiences with WARs in merit parties. I've yet to party with one that didn't hold TP. Will not use provoke (yeah it's nice to provoke sh*t sometimes even in a merit party). It's pretty sad though, a good WAR is an awesome DD but I rarely see any decent ones.

Also, a SAMs auction house polearm gear is really no different than what a WAR would use. The only advantage SAM has is overwhelm and Stp.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 2:33am by marleytiva

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 2:34am by marleytiva

I agree with you - there are a lot of bad WARs. But for every bad WAR there are 2 bad Samurais. People level it because they think by picking a job, it makes them good at the game. Unfortunately this stereotype persists even at the highest levels of the game.

Sidenote: I am one of those Warriors that doesn't use provoke (except to provoke an awake mob beating on a bard or our healer). The reason? If I used provoke everytime it was up, I would lose insane amounts of exp from dying. I'm often the only one who's shadows are getting eaten in the first place. Provoke just makes sure of that.

/nin, yuck

I get plenty of invites on war/nin. I have always assumed that the puller wanted a voker to take the mob off them. And while I prefer war/sam, I usually do war/nin in merit parties.

Sam has some really nice job abilities. War has better abilities imo, but that's just my opinion. The real thing sam has that war does not is one-hit ws's. You can gear like an idiot and completely avoid gear swaps and STILL put out decent numbers because your ws is almost always going to hit. Most of the sams I know just sit in str gear at all times and eat sole sushi. Several that I know flat out refuse to gear swap on weapon skills. It's almost irritating to have to carry four (yes, four) different sets of gear around just to put out good numbers when I see that.

Lastly, Zanshin is just stupidly powerful. I'd get risky on my tp set too if I might get a second try on my misses.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 10:27pm by Thydonon

SAM sucks. There. I said it.

haters gonna hate gif goes here

I merit on my BRD, and I can give a view point from some of the experiences I've had.

Firstly, I love having a WAR in my merit parties. The damage is always really good and consistent, but Provoke makes them a huge time saver. After I elegy and lullaby a bird next to the party, that bird is gonna reflect lullaby when it wakes. If for some reason (not often, but it happens) my shadows are down, there's a pretty good chance that song is coming right back at me when it wakes. I've had good experiences with WARs who will provoke the bird right when I pull it to the camp. Then when its woken up by an attack, it will cast lullaby right back at the WAR, but at the same time hit the WAR so that he/she wakes right back up. That means no slept RDMs, BRDs or other DDs. But not every WAR likes to voke, even some of you on here even said you don't like/need to voke. I'm just a lowly BRD, but even I see the uses of Provoke in a merit party, you'd figure a 75WAR would too.

Secondly, I've had so many more GK SAMs in meripos than Polearm ones. And even sadder is I've never had a Hagun GK user when it wasn't a Polearm SAM. I've done two meripos in the past 2 days. The setups being:

BRD(me) RDM(74) DNC WAR DRG COR(71 and afk for half the meripo)

and

BRD(me) COR RDM SAM SAM MNK

From the looks of it, the second party would be more ideal than the first. But we never broke a chain 15 in the second party. And the first party we got to chain 100 before stopping. Having 2 SAMs wasn't enough to keep up with our first party.

Maybe its just the experiences I've had, but SAMs on Fenrir are lacking. And the WARs are giving themselves a good name, at least in my eyes.

But cheer up guys, at least you can get into meripos on your favorite jobs, I'm a BST main and I've never seen a meripo on it, ever. Campaign Meriting ftw >_>

I've seen one Sam/War voke in a party ever.
Coincidentally he did a lot more damage than the average.

I'd like to expect it more but in reality it's just not going to happen.