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Magian GAxe with Multi-HitFollow

#1 Mar 23 2010 at 6:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I was checking out the Great Axe Magian quests, primarily the ones that focus on occasionally attacking twice, and found the trial paths that get us the particular augment.

Trial #: 364>365>366>372>373>374|375 (splits between choosing 374 or 375)

Objectives:

364 - Kill Hoo Mjuu the Torrent 3x (Giddeus)
365 - Kill Daggerclaw Dracos 3x (Meriphataud Mountains)
366 - Kill Hamtar 3x (Sea Serpent Grotto)
372 - Kill 400 experience-yielding bird-type cretures (must have item equipped)
373 - Kill 300 monsters of the cluster bomb family (must have item equipped)
374 - Retrieve 10 Ruthven's nails.

Result:

Luchtaine (Aug, Rare, Ex)
(Great Axe) All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR

OR

375 - Kill 500 experience-yielding vermin-type creatures (must have item equipped)
376 - Kill 600 experience-yielding demon-type creatures (must have item equipped)
377 - Kill 400 monsters of the rafflesia family (must have item equipped)

Result:

Luchtaine (Aug, Rare, Ex)
(Great Axe) All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR


I'd post more of the different paths but I haven't gone to bed yet and its 8 AM my time, so I'm just gonna leave this here for now for people to discuss.
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#2 Mar 23 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok I don't understand this exactly.

374
D76 Delay 514
Occ.Atk.Twice

377 (looks to be longer)
D44 514
Occ.Atk.Twice


Unless they had some screwy type's in the system... why the **** would anyone do the longer path to get an inferior weapon?
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#3 Mar 23 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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DMG:76 Delay:514 Occ. Attacks Twice isn't so bad. Not exactly mind blowing, but I don't think anyone expected anything to be.

Edit: Never claimed I knew the maths ...

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 9:47am by lolgaxe
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#4 Mar 23 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unless they had some screwy type's in the system... why the **** would anyone do the longer path to get an inferior weapon?


Because you don't need 10 Ruthven's nails for the weaker version. If you don't have any way to beat the VNM, you can still have a chance to get a multi-hit weapon by just chipping away at the mob requirement at your leisure.

Not worth the time IMHO, but some people may find it worth it, especially /dnc soloers, or they may just do it for the fun and lulz of a multi-hit weapon they can get solo or duo.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 10:40am by OyamaBlu
#5 Mar 23 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Depending on proc rate we may have a contender for Perdu there.

Damage/delay is better than Fortitude, withouth using the ammo slot.
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#6 Mar 23 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, but Fortitude can Triple. Anyway, its solely down to proc rate now, and I'd imagine they'd be similar to the other Occasionally Attack X weapons, with a fairly even split between Single/Double procs.

Also, Occasionally Attacks Twice + Max Damage Axe combined with Ridill sounds like fun to me.
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#7 Mar 23 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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What is the damage on the good augmented single hand axe with attacks twice procs?

Still finding it hard to find the information on the net, and not quite able to log onto FFXI for a couple days still
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#8 Mar 23 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's what I found out on that avenue, from the Wiki:
Trial 296 Axe: Chopper required  
297:Elements 
   298:Fire Buffs 
      299:Fire Buffs+1 
         300:DMG+7 STR+2 Delay-4 Attack+5 
            301:DMG+12 Delay-4 STR+4 Attack+12 
         302:DMG+7 Delay-4 STR+2 Pet: Attack+5 RAttack+5 
            303:DMG+12 Delay-4 STR+4 Pet: Attack+12 RAtttack+12 
         304:DMG+8 Weakens Attack+5 
            305::DMG+13 Weakens Attack+10 
   306:Wind Buffs 
      307:WindBuffs +1 
         308:DMG+7 AGI+2 Delay-4 Evasion + 5 
            309:DMG+12 Delay-4 Evasion+12 
         310:DMG+7 Delay-4 AGI+2 Pet: Evasion+5 
            311:DMG+12 Delay -4 AGI+4 Pet: Evasion+12 
         312:DMG+8 ImparesEVA+5 
            313:DMG+13 Impares EVA+10 
   314: Lightning Buffs 
      315:Lightning Buffs+1 
         316:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+2 ACC+3 
            317:DMG+12 Delay-4 DEX+4 ACC+8 
         318:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+2 Pet: ACC + 3 RACC + 3 
            319:DMG+7 Delay-4 DEX+4 Pet: ACC+8 RACC+8 
         320:DMG+8 Lowers Accuracy +5 
            321:DMG+13 Lowers Accuracy+10 
   322:Light Buffs 
      323:Light Buffs+1 
         324:DMG+7 Delay-4 CHR+2 Mag EVA +5 
            325:DMG+12 Delay-4 CHR+4 Mag EVA +10 
         326:DMG+7 Delay-4 CHR+2 Pet: Mag EVA+5 
            327:DMG+12 Delay-4 CHR+4 Pet: Mag EVA+10 
         328:DMG+8 Lowers Magic EVA+5 
            329:DMG+13 Lowers Mag EVA+10 
330:Elements 
   331:Ice Buffs 
      322:Ice Buffs+1 
         333:DMG+7 Delay-4 INT+2 Mag Attack Bonus +2 
            334:DMG+12 Delay-4 INT+4 Mag Attack Bonus +5 
         335:DMG+7 Delay-4 INT+2 Pet: Mag Attack Bonus +2 
            336:DMG+12 Delay-4 INT+4 Pet: Mag Attack Bonus +5 
         337:DMG+8 Lowers Magic Attack+5 
            338:DMG+13 Lowers Magic Attack+10 
   339:Earth Buffs 
      340:Earth Buffs+1 
         341:DMG+7 Delay-4 VIT+2 Phys Damage taken -2% 
            342:DMG+12 Delay-4 VIT+4 Phys Damage taken -5% 
         343:DMG+7 Delay-4 VIT+2 Pet: Phys Damage taken -2% 
            344:DMG+12 Delay-4 VIT+4 Pet: Phys Damage taken -5% 
         345:DMG+8 Weakens Def +5 
            346:DMG+13 Weakens DEF+10 
   347:Water Buffs 
      348:Water Buffs+1 
         349:DMG+7 Delay-4 MND+2 Mag Def Bonus +2 
            350:DMG+12 Delay-4 MND+4 Mag Def Bonus +5 
         351:DMG+7 Delay-4 MND+2 Pet: Mag Def Bonus +2 
            352:DMG+12 Delay-4 MND+4 Pet: Mag Def Bonus +5 
         353:DMG+8 Lowers Magic Def+5 
            354:DMG+13 Lowers Magic Def+10 
   355:Dark Buffs 
      356:Dark Buffs+1 
         357:DMG+7 Delay-4 MP+15 Mag ACC +5 
            358:DMG+12 Delay-4 MP+30 Mag ACC +10 
         359:DMG+7 Delay-4 MP+15 Pet: Mag ACC Bonus +2 
            360:DMG+12 Delay-4 MP+30 Pet: Mag ACC Bonus +5 
         353:DMG+8 Lowers Magic ACC+5 
            354:DMG+13 Lowers Magic ACC+10 
 
Axe 282: Chopper Required 
283:Attack+3 
   284:Attack+5 
        285:Changes to BoneBiter: DMG:47 Delay:288 
         286:Attack+3 
            287:Attack+5 
               288:Attack+7 
                  289:DMG+6 (Totaling 53 base DMG on weapon)    
       290: Changes to Punisher: DMG:27 Delay 280 
         291: Delay-4 
            292: DMG+19 (Totalling 46 Base DMG) Delay+32(Totalling 312) Occasionally Attacks Twice 
            293: Delay-8 
               294: Delay-14 
                  295: Delay+32(Totalling 312) Occasionally Attacks Twice   
Seems less than spectacular now that I look at it, though could still work. Don't like the delay of the axe, but if it procs like Joyeuse I could learn to live with it. +100 Delay between the two. Better base damage, 11 more than Joyeuse, and higher base skill than Joyeuse, at least. One of the mathers would have to figure out the specifics here.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 2:06pm by lolgaxe
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#9 Mar 23 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh... you speaking with me?

Lets see... simple comparation between the axe and poke toy.

Baseline: Considering that both have 45% base double attack rate.

292 Punisher
D46, delay 312. Occasionally attacks twice.
DPS = 8.85 Withouth the double attack procs
DPS = 12.83 with

Joyeuse
D35, delay 224. Occasionally attacks twice.
DPS = 9.375 withouth the double attack procs
DPS = 13.59 with


Skill goes from 250 (sword) to 269 (axe) for warrior. So thats 19 skill. 14 when you consider that you will be using suppa.

14 skill is + 12 acc and +14 atk that the axe have.

The real break point here is how much acc and atk your dual wield build will have against target mobs.

Ridill is still king of multi-hit, but i think this axe can be very close to joyeuse. If and only if its proc rate is close to joytoy's though.

Doing a bit of thinking still. this post is not complete. Check back soon.

The basic difference is: This thing can make Punisher/Ridill pull ahead of Ridill/Joyesus simply because Rampage is somewhat better than Vorpal, and mostly because you would be doing Rampage with a weapon that has 6 base damage of Vorpal's Ridill.

Doing some calculations to see if im correct, will post back real soon*

- Did some calculations, but since i am at work nothing is complete.

Preliminary results is that Punisher should be very close to Joyeuse if you are pairing either with a Ridill. Ridill/Joyeuse has a better DPS set, but Rampage with a higher D weapon and using Rampage over Vorpal blade close the gap.

Attack difference from axe to sword has minimal impact once you are bordering 600 attack ( songs + food + berserk ), but makes the combo better at lower attack values.

Those 12 acc in favor of the punisher is what really puts them on par.

If you are pairing with a Maneater, Punisher falls a bit short on the Joyeuse. The big advantages it gives over joytoy for a Ridill user are: Rampage and +12 acc on the main hits of the WS. With a maneater already have that.

IE: Punisher: The new Joyeuse?

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 4:11pm by TheKhory

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 4:13pm by TheKhory
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#10 Mar 23 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Good Stuff Khory... but can you summarize lol :)
#11 Mar 23 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Akibakei wrote:
Good Stuff Khory... but can you summarize lol :)


Punisher is the new joyeuse. WAR and BST onry.


...yes, i talk a lot.



Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 5:21pm by TheKhory
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#12 Mar 23 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Damnit.. just when I am nearly finished with Merits in Sword... i guess its still viable until i can actually get the Punisher.. which would cut down on the merits actually.. so i can put more into other things.

Thanks for all your work :)
#13 Mar 23 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I am sooo dam glad i did not drop my Axe merits.

Going to try and get this and go back to dual wield for a bit.
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#14 Mar 23 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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FYI, here are all the final form Magian Great Axes.

364-365-366-367-368-369-370-371
Bonesplitter
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:89 Delay:504
DMG:+11
Lv.75 WAR

364-365-366-372-373-374
Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR

364-365-366-372-373-375-376-377
Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR

378-379-380-381-382-383
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 STR+4 Attack+15
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-380-381-384-385
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Weakens atk.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-386-387-388-389
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 AGI+4 Evasion+15
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-386-387-390-391
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Impairs evasion+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-392-393-394-395
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 DEX+4 Accuracy+12
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-392-393-396-397
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Lowers acc.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-398-399-400-401
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 CHR+4
Mag. Evasion+12
Lv. 75 WAR

378-379-398-399-402-403
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Lowers mag.eva.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-405-406-407-408
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 INT+4
"Mag.Atk.Bns."+7
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-405-406-409-410
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Lowers mag.atk.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-411-412-413-414
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 VIT+4
Phys. dmg. taken -7%
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-411-412-415-416
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Weakens def.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-417-418-419-420
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 MND+4
"Mag.Def.Bns."+7
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-417-418-421-422
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Lowers mag.def.+10
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-423-424-425-426
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+19 Delay:-6 MP+50
Mag. Acc.+12
Lv. 75 WAR

378-404-423-424-427-428
Hephaestus
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:72 Delay:488
DMG:+21
Add.eff.:Lowers mag.acc.+10
Lv. 75 WAR
#15 Mar 23 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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I guess we're just waiting on proc rate. I figure we should have that figured out by the weekend. Here's hoping that Square, for once, does the sensible thing and keeps OAT the same as Joyeuse.

Or there is going to be A LOT of angry people.

As usual.
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#16 Mar 23 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
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Teratron wrote:

Bonesplitter
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:89 Delay:504
DMG:+11
Lv.75 WAR

364-365-366-372-373-374
Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR


Where, Perdu is outdone by Bonesplitter no matter what I assume, even in un-capped accuracy situations. 2.5% Hit rate vs 4 Base Dmg?
I'm not positive, so again, mathimacation people can chime in.

So then the real question comes down to:

DMG: 100 Delay 504
VS
DMG: 76 Delay 514 Occ Atk Twice

And then Further more, the big question is, will duel wield 3 from /nin at 99 make GA obsolete again?
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#17 Mar 23 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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i doubt i'll be playing or remotely up to date when the lv cap hits 99, but i'm really curious to see what they'll do to the game mechanics... i mention this b/c you were talking about a d76 delay514 occasionally attacks twice weapon. at 99, MNK with those wargfang things would be swinging 66 each fist with around 400~ delay or less (more MA traits?) with occ.attacks twice on each fist (or if that's not how those sh*ts work, d58 faith baghs, similar delay). spharai users would have about the equivalent of that GA on each hand, minus the occasionally attacks twice of course (but with 3ple proc damage).

i swear this game is going to be @#%^ed to **** when they increase that cap. i can't wait to see what glitchy nonsense occurs.

anyway, multihit axe makes dual wield much more interesting again. i didn't fully take in above posts, but surely punisher/ridill is an interesting prospect, no?

re: d100 vs d75 +45% weapon-double-attack, the latter is better, easily. 75 * 1.45 is > 100 to begin with, and also you get the TP from the 514 delay so you WS way more. shouldn't even be close really. rule of thumb: ffxi rewards multihit and haste above all other things.

edit: as long as there are zergs, dual march parties, and /SAM, GA will never be obsolete, but it could become more situational than it is now, sure/

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 2:00am by milich
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#18 Mar 24 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Enilanerda wrote:
Teratron wrote:

Bonesplitter
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:89 Delay:504
DMG:+11
Lv.75 WAR

364-365-366-372-373-374
Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR


Where, Perdu is outdone by Bonesplitter no matter what I assume, even in un-capped accuracy situations. 2.5% Hit rate vs 4 Base Dmg?
I'm not positive, so again, mathimacation people can chime in.


Not a mathematician, by any sense of the word, but don't discount the +10 atk on Perdu, and, as you stated, in uncapped acc, Perdu still gets +5 acc.

Bonesplitter might...

What the ****, I went to smoke a cig and forgot my point. I think my point is, for you that don't have a Perdu, go for this, although the quests are a pain in the ***.

I'll stick with Perdu for now. Just because I have it.

Nya~
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#19 Mar 24 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I guess we're just waiting on proc rate. I figure we should have that figured out by the weekend. Here's hoping that Square, for once, does the sensible thing and keeps OAT the same as Joyeuse.

Or there is going to be A LOT of angry people.

As usual.


The only advantage Square has over many other MMO companies is that its situated in Japan.

If they were american, i bet some developers would already have been shoot by some angry teen about the things they do.


Yeah, every single one of our speculations is taken from double attacking being close to that of Joyeuse. If its lower than that, it will ***** a lot of weapons to the point of them being unusable.
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#20 Mar 24 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
re: d100 vs d75 +45% weapon-double-attack, the latter is better, easily. 75 * 1.45 is > 100 to begin with, and also you get the TP from the 514 delay so you WS way more. shouldn't even be close really. rule of thumb: ffxi rewards multihit and haste above all other things.



I know what you are saying is true, but its alot closer than 75*1.45 > 100.
If you count in 22% DA and assuming that the weapon is not like a sea weapon and on more on par with joyuese. It's more close to 75(.55x.22 + .45) = 117.8 vs 100 x 1.22 = 122. But you'll WS more 504/1.22 = 413 vs 514/1.57 = 327 (26% more often, but roughly 17% less damage). Overall its only marginally better than the 100 damage weapon, which isnt as good as Perdu when acc is useful.
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#21 Mar 24 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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do these become "R" after you mod them or will it be possible to main hand and off hand the axes? and i know they are not gonna do it but what do you think the fall out would be if the proc rate is as high ridill.

#22 Mar 24 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
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fyi, this axe:

Bonesplitter
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:89 Delay:504
DMG:+11
Lv.75 WAR

is about a billion times easier to get than this axe:

Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR


im all for getting some nice toys but its one thing to be able to solo 99% of one item and do the rest with a party less than 6, while the other requires an alliance and 20x more effort for something marginally better. then again, that sums up most of the game so...
#23 Mar 24 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
302:DMG+7 Delay-4 STR+2 Pet: Attack+5 RAttack+5
303:DMG+12 Delay-4 STR+4 Pet: Attack+12 RAtttack+12


you know, one of these days SE is gonna find out that BST pets cant use ranged attacks and then wonder why they put these augments on there.

i can understand on equipment BST and PUP share but on a WAR/BST only piece, come on now SE.
#24 Mar 24 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Solrain wrote:
Enilanerda wrote:
Teratron wrote:

Bonesplitter
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:89 Delay:504
DMG:+11
Lv.75 WAR

364-365-366-372-373-374
Luchtaine
(Great Axe)All Races
DMG:44 Delay:504
DMG:+32 Delay:+10
Occ. atk. twice
Lv.75 WAR


Where, Perdu is outdone by Bonesplitter no matter what I assume, even in un-capped accuracy situations. 2.5% Hit rate vs 4 Base Dmg?
I'm not positive, so again, mathimacation people can chime in.


Not a mathematician, by any sense of the word, but don't discount the +10 atk on Perdu, and, as you stated, in uncapped acc, Perdu still gets +5 acc.

Bonesplitter might...

What the ****, I went to smoke a cig and forgot my point. I think my point is, for you that don't have a Perdu, go for this, although the quests are a pain in the ***.

I'll stick with Perdu for now. Just because I have it.

Nya~


idk, I can't honestly see 5 acc 10 atk beating 4 dmg, under any but the lowest of low acc situations, and the fact that you lose those stats on all hits over 100% TP (as a pup, I constantly deal with comparisons of waghs and hades, this factor is an annoyingly large one to consider). I don't see perdu winning against Bonesplitter.

Bonesplitter has a DoT of 11.90. that's just broken.

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 1:46pm by Jinte

for those that are curious, to get bonesplitter:

364: Hoo Mjuu the Torrent x3
365: Dagger Claw Dracos x3
366: Namtar x3
367: Gargantua x4
368: Megalobugard x4
369: Ratatoskr x4
370: Jyeshtha x6
371: Capricorns x6

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 1:55pm by Jinte
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#25 Mar 24 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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idk, I can't honestly see 5 acc 10 atk beating 4 dmg, under any but the lowest of low acc situations, and the fact that you lose those stats on all hits over 100% TP (as a pup, I constantly deal with comparisons of waghs and hades, this factor is an annoyingly large one to consider). I don't see perdu winning against Bonesplitter.


4 Damage on a weapon already so high roughly 3.8% once you add in fSTR.

10 attack ~ 2.5% damage
5 acc ~ 2.5% damage (near cap)

Perdu > 100 damage weapon (also it has higher delay)
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You can't transform numbers into other numbers like that. It'd just go on forever. That's like witchcraft.


There's one guy I know who
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is a big deal now.
#26TybudX, Posted: Mar 24 2010 at 2:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A multihit GAxe with good base damage and high enough delay to keep a 6 hit while not /sam.... I fail to see problem here. Perdu is only better than Fortitude Axe if you lack accuracy (Pizza) and/or are lazy (Virtue Stones), it's only better than Rune Chopper if you don't play with proper support (lolCampaigners/shout LSs). It's not 2006 anymore. Stop playing like *********
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